The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:7 Ep:16 – All Out War Begins Edition

I know, I know.  This isn’t April.  We’re in October and I am finally posting this.  What gives?  The truth of the matter is simple.  I gave a little extra time for people to finish this and then I forgot to post it.  By the time I remembered, it was like 3 or 4 weeks after the episode aired, and it felt odd to do it.  So I held onto this, in shame because it’s embarrassing to have such a terrible memory.  Bob even asked me about it in the spring or summer, and the decision was made to hold off until TWD returned, so here we are, Sunday October 22, 2017.  I’m looking forward to this season, and I hope to get most of my old group back along with some new people, if anybody wants to join in.  Thank you for reading, and please share this because I need hits.  Seriously, I need hits.

In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related.  Please note all messages in bold are written by me.

 

  1.  When you think about the season finale episode, what is the happiest moment for you?

Bob:  I am not going to deny it.  The tiger jumping in when we thought Carl’s head was about to be bashed in.  They did a good job of making me forget all about HT and TK.  Kudos for the pleasant shock.  (It was like a superhero just diving in for the save.  It was very comic book style save, which was needed.)

Bitty: Happiest moment for me was the beginning of the battle. Negan’s lines and the entrance of Ezekiel.  (Ezekiel coming in, just gets teh adrenaline pumping every time I watch this.)

Kristi:  Zombie Sasha!!!!! I was hoping she would be the first walker to have some sort of memory and only attack Negan’s crew.  (I think the only time that they really hinted towards a possible memory would be Merle seeing Daryl.  I think it was just the way that it was filmed.  If you think back to season 1 and how Dr Jenner explained things, they shouldn’t have any memory…in theory.)

Chris:  My happiest moment was Rick’s response to Negan when he was going to kill Carl.  He wasn’t going to be afraid of Negan anymore.  (Exactly.  It was the perfect arc from the opening episode with the lineup to that moment.  It was very well done.)

Kent:  OK, I had 2.  For sheer happiness, Carl not getting killed.  I will offer a different perspective.  My other choice is when the explosion didn’t go off.  Think about how that moment changed the whole episode and added a crazy amount of layer.  Anything that keeps us guessing as viewers is happiness for me.

 

  1.  What was the biggest “uh oh” moment for you in this week’s episode?  Whether it was sad, or surprising, pretty much not a happy moment candidate.

Bob:  When Rosita’s bomb did not trigger.  I went from thinking​, gee that’s embarrassing to ohhhh nooooo!  (Rick’s face summed up everybody’s feelings in that moment.)

Bitty:  Biggest uh oh moment would have been the opening sequence. Sasha in the dark, sweating, mumbling and moving.  (Yeah, closed dark spaces are terrifying, yet it was done so well.)

Kristi:  When the Scavengers turned the guns on The Alexandrians. I was not expecting that!  (Yeah, I don’t recall anybody speculating that one.  It was a really solid twist.)

Chris:  When Jadis pulled a gun on Rick.  The bomb not going off was bad, but the garbage group turning could have been the final nail in the coffin. (The doomsday snowball just got bigger and bigger by the second.)

Kent:  Negan getting that close to Carl and needing to prove a point.  Every moment above me is a good answer.  

 

  1.  Do you think that Negan believes Eugene’s explanation for Sasha’s death?

Bob:  Not at all.  I don’t believe Negan knows what to think.  He can’t believe Eugene had the fortitude to try anything against him, so he is left in a quandary.  (Eugene is actually forcing Negan’s hand, which is an interesting turn of events.)

Bitty:  No way. Negan doesn’t want to believe that Eugene would lie to him because he is useful to Negan.

Kristi:  Not even a little bit  

Chris:  No, but he also doesn’t have a good explanation for it.  I give bonus points to Eugene for making it sound convincing.  (The dude can think on his feet.  I am looking forward to Eugene’s arc in season 8.  I think it will be the best single person’s arc this coming season.)

Kent:  Doubt it, but I guess it’s not entirely implausible.  Negan has a lot of shit on his mind.  If this was his only thing to dwell on, I think things would be different.  Of course, Negan won’t say anything until Eugene teaches them how to make bullets.  Why hasn’t that process begun?  That is the whole reason that Eugene is there.  Seriously.

 

  1.  Which betrayal was worse: The Scavengers or Eugene’s in the eyes of Rick?

Bob:  The Scavengers.  It was 9 times worse than 2 Eugene betrayals.  (Well, that’s a bonus point.  You picked a great spot for it.)  The tactical loss of half your forces (more…) and then to have them against you… That’s really terrible and would make many lose heart.

Bitty:  The betrayal of the Scavengers was way worse in the eyes of Rick. This is as more than half the army and as Rick has learned people grow and change and move on.

Kristi:  Eugene, he was part of Rick’s team. After hearing the, I will lay with him comment from the Garbage chic, I don’t think he fully trusted them.

Chris:  The Scavengers.  I think he was disappointed in Eugene, but they all know he’s a coward.  When Eugene said “I am Negan” Rick looked less shocked and more like a disappointed parent.  (Haha, he did have that “Now son, your mother and I are very disappointed in you.  Go to your room and think about what you have done” look going for him.)

Kent:  The Scavengers was worse.  The thing with Eugene is like this thing that Rick knows how to solve 5 moves down the road.  Losing the Scavengers just ruined all their hard work. Losing those guns was crippling.  Rick’s group never properly utilized Eugene so it’s just not that big of a deal in this moment.

 

  1.  Out of all of the characters that are still alive, which one do you think has come close to death the most amount of times since the Zombie Apocalypse started?  Lots of options to choose from, and Rick may not be the right choice, so think on it.

Bob:  Very tough here.  Frankly, the person needs screentime for knowns threats on their life. I want to pick Carl in the worst way.  Then there is Daryl and Morgan.  Carl it is.  Two gun shots, multiple Negan encounters and some zombie contact.  I found myself feeling like Carl was going to die much more often than Morgan.  Daryl is a close second for me.

Bitty: Carl wins for me as coming close to death at the hands of a HUMANS.   (At the hands of human, I think you are correct.)

Kristi:  Carl. I’m sorry but he is not a smart kid. Badass, maybe, but his lack of common sense would have gotten him killed long ago.  (What’s more important in this world, being smart or bad ass?  You still want to think smart, but bad ass gets you far at the very least.)

Chris:  I want to pick Carl, but Rick has “almost” been killed on many occasions.  I’m pretty sure Rick has almost died every season, while Carl was pretty safe in season 1.  Season 2 he did almost die, but Rick was in trouble at least 3 times.  Carl is catching up though….

Kent:  Had I included dead people, I wonder if anybody would have chosen Glenn.  This is all sheer speculation.  Take somebody like Negan who appears to only like melee weapons in a world in which guns had to have been pointed at him numerous times.  On his rise to power, other people had to have tried taking him out.  Daryl has been in some trouble, but I would say Morgan had it tougher.  We have no idea how many close calls Carol had when Rick exiled her.  At the end of the day, we do know the vast majority of things that have happened to Rick and Carl.  Carl got the Otis bullet, the Ron bullet, was damn close to getting butt raped by one of Joe’s claimers, almost got got by the walker that killed Dale in season 2, and he wandered the prison quite a bit on his own accord.  Then along comes Negan.  Rick has been injured more, has been in close proximity to walkers far more frequently than Carl.  If we are to believe that walkers were a threat the first 5 season minimum, I gotta say Rick.

 

  1.  Aside from Sasha, which one character’s life did you fear for most?  Basically, who did you think was going to get killed, but managed to stay alive?  

Bob:  Carl.  I was sure he was dead in that scene with his father and Negan.

Bitty: I was thinking we would lose Ezekiel so Carol would rise to the top. Or even Morgan. I was worried he’d go rogue in battle and lose everything.   (I keep waiting for Morgan to die so I can be really pissed off, but he keeps on keeping on.  I’m going to say that he dies this season in a bit of reverse psychology.)

Kristi:  That crazy head scavenger chic, I don’t remember names. I was really looking forward to her demise.  (I love Polly, the actress.  I think her time is up in season 8.)

Chris:  Honestly, I can’t think of anyone.  I didn’t think Carl was going to die.  They did a good job of teasing Michonne, but it’s not her time yet.  (Do you think Michonne makes it to the end of the series?  I am not so sure after what happened in the comics, and to any readers, just to let you know, Michonne is still alive in the comics, so that is not a spoiler.)

Kent:  If you have read any of my blogs, you know the answer.  So Tara aside, I am going to go with Morgan.  I’m really surprised that they didn’t kill a major character here.  If you think that is a slight to Sasha, you’re damn right it is.  Really, has she been that great of a character?  I liked her with Bob, that was the high point for her.  

 

  1.  This episode had a lot of points in which they dug up past memories (Abraham, Glenn, the original lineup with Rick and Carl, etc).  What memories from the past came up most prominent for you?

Bob:  All of Abraham’s witty remarks from the past. I discovered I really missed him on the show.  It was really nice to see him…. (Abe was that perfect role where he was most effective having funny one liners without taking away anybody’s else’s shine.)

Bitty: The speech at the end by Maggie made me miss Glenn and Dale.  (I still don’t miss Glenn.  The dumpster thing ruined it for me unfortunately.  I did like Dale because he was the polar opposite character who also had valid points, even if I disagreed with him.)

Kristi:  At the end when Maggie was talking about their journey. The mention of the farm reminded me of Hershel. It pulled at my heart strings a bit.  (Honestly, if I could bring back any characters, Herschel would be right there with Abe, Merle, Tyrese, and T Dog.)

Chris:  The end with Maggie talking about Glenn.  It was very powerful and a fitting way to end the season.  (The only thing I didn’t necessarily like about it, was the placement of it after so much momentum.  It was that slow moment, that was needed, but it changed the mood of an exciting episode.)

Kent:  Abe, obviously Abe.  I do not find myself missing Glenn in the least bit, and if Maggie could just go away, even better.  Abe was such a huge loss on this show and if I had asked who would have made this season better by being alive, you know damn well the answer would have been Abe.  Why?  Because he’s funny and charming.  Glenn would have continued his downward spiral into boredom. I thought that I would be the only one to mention Herschel, but Kristi proved me wrong.  I miss that dude so much.  I would trade anybody on this show for Abe and Herschel aside from Carl, Eugene, Rick, Morgan, Carol, and Negan.  Yes, I would even put Simon and Gregory up for grabs to get Herschel and Abe back, or even Merle.

 

  1.  Realistically, are you at all disappointed that more characters didn’t die during this episode?  If so, who?  Basically, this is where I make fun of Tara.

Bob:  I think the season should have just been Tarasode Part Deux. Or Deuce. And have her live, Sasha, Rosita and Maggie die.  Why not? We aren’t communists, that’s why not.  To answer your question I think a lot of red shirts died this episode.  Why didn’t Aaron’s boyfriend die? But I am happy with a lot of main characters not dying on the show at this point.  (I am guaranteeing that Aaron’s boyfriend, Eric, dies this week, mainly because his name is Eric.  Rosita has at least one more season in her, and Maggie is in the same vein as Rich, Carl and Eugene as untouchable.)  I like that they tried adding value to Rosita’s character.)

Bitty:  I’m disappointed that Dwight didn’t get killed and I thought it would’ve been great to have Rosita by the mouth of Sasha.  (You’re going to like Dwight some day.  Just accept it.  Just like you have to accept that David Ortiz was on PED’s and cheated.)

Kristi:  Yes, I expected more to die. I had a pretty good feeling that Sasha was out from the beginning. I was, absolutely, expecting another more devastating death. Sasha was sad but she wasn]t as close to everyone so I don’t think it will effect the group.  (It felt like we needed one more big death, especially with how Sasha’s was foretold and how she was never truly a big character.)

Chris:  Not really.  Main characters don’t always have to die.  Besides, I have a feeling plenty will die next season (please let Gregory go first!!!)  (Booo Chris boooo.  Gregory is so great, haha.  He’s going to die this season, no doubt.)

Kent:  Of course I am.  We have too many people that we need to give time to every season and it dillutes the product a bit in my opinion. Kill off Eric to make Aaron more interesting.  Kill off Tara to make me happy.  Kill off Daryl to give us a big death at the end.  Really, Daryl has become kind of bland.  I need Enid to have a bigger role moving forward.  I need Kent to stay alive.  They killed too many of Ezekiel’s people, leaving only Jerry as a big hit to the actual fans.  They need to provide more people on the Hilltop for us to care about before they die.  This is why more death won’t hurt because one of the best things about TWD is how they create and give stories about characters.  Hell, even Denise had a good story in such a limited time frame, or Olivia.  In order to provide us with more of these stories, some heads need to roll.  Starting with Tara.

 

  1.  Last week, I asked you all if you felt that this would end on a high note or a low note.  Now that you have seen it, do you feel that it ended on a high or low note?  I know some of you want to be like “Welll, this was kinda sad, but this got me pretty psyched” to which I will write to you and tell you just choose which one you felt was more prevalent.  

Bob:  I said a low note with a crescendo.  So I feel I was right.  Sasha died, Eugene is Negan, Scavengers are haters.  Rick restated his promise. (We don’t get the word crescendo enough in this blog.  I am putting in an order for 15% more crescendo this coming season.)

Bitty:  I stand by what I said last week. Epic battle scenes, some characters we lose but in the end leaving us hopeful for the new season. (So you feel hopeful?  Sucker!)

Kristi:  High note, Did you see the Tiger!!! That was it for me. I ended the episode feeling empowered for the group.  (Haha, I look forward to any animal related comments from you in any blog that can integrate them.)

Chris:  A high note for sure.  They had the Saviors reeling for the first time.  It’s going to be an epic battle.  (Okay, so knowing what is going to happen due to common sense and the comic notwithstanding, I didn’t view it as the Saviors reeling.  They got even more weapons now.  But they did retreat to recoup, so I can see that perspective.  I am excited either way.)

Kent:  I gotta say low note.  Maybe that is the eternal optimist in me that is a mute.  They had their biggest army turn on them and take the guns.  How is that not a low note?  Because the 3 heads of the communities are together? This was definitely some Empire Strikes Back stuff right here.  If you don’t fully get that whole reference, I pity you and your choices in movies throughout your entire life.  The highs were totally outweighed by the lows.  Carl almost got got, aiight?  That almost happened.  Eugene is back in black.    Maggie’s hair still looks awful.  Seriously, I can’t be the only person that thinks this.

 

Bonus Deuce

  1.  Looking back on season 7 in totality, do you consider it a good, bad, or neutral season compared to previous seasons?

Bob:  Neutral.  Thanks for not making me pick good or bad. (Anytime Hoss, except for those times when I only offer 2 options like a jerk.)  Why is Negan not being someone we love to hate?  Instead it’s like “oh he has a small penis.”. He is a coward and pulls the South Park move of having certain people in front to die. (Operation Human Shield, and I shall not finish the rest of that particular reference, haha.)

Bitty: Season 7 was up and down for me. The most intense episode I ever watched was the Lucille episode but I found myself missing Carol  a lot. I also missed seeing Rick’s group on the move with a purpose.  (I like a purpose as well.  You nailed it.  Carol is my favorite female on TV, so I always want more of her.)

Kristi:  Bad, I had high hopes for this season. In my opinion, there were 3 episodes that were decent. The first, last, and the one one that Morgan killed for the first time again. The rest could have been summed up much quicker to give more time for some walker killing. I’m ready to go back to fighting those ugly bastards.  (You may struggle a bit in season 8, or maybe not, as I know you don’t like Gregory.  With that being said, season 9 is so going to be for you.)

Chris:  It was ok.  I think most people wanted more action, especially after the first episode.  They did a great job laying the groundwork for all out war.  (This was the necessary evil for fans to truly enjoy this upcoming season, you are so right.)

Kent:  It was better than 5 & 6 in a lot of ways, at least for me.  Negan really made stuff interesting again.  With such a huge group of characters to follow, I do feel that it hurt viewers on a week to week scale, but to binge watch it, they may not have been as bothered.  It is probably the 4th or 5th best season out of the 7.  I’m more pro than con.  That opening episode was one of the single most memorable episodes of anything on TV ever.  That has to count for something.

 

  1.  What one question do you hope gets answered at some point during season 8?

Bob:  is Negan going to get it in a satisfying manner or will it be unfortunate happenstance?  (Neither, he’s going to live on, he’s going to survive, and I’m going to quote Bill Pullman.)

Bitty:  Where the hell is Gregory???  (I hope that is answered in the opening scene of season 8.)

Kristi:  I am ready to see what Eugene has up his sleeve. I’m curious to see if he and Dwight have joined up to go against Negan.  (Uhmmmm, you may like this season after all…..Yeah)

Chris:  What is Eugene really up to?  (He is on the verge of having his best season yet…I hope.  Gotta respect the hair game.)

Kent:  I’m curious how a potential time skip occurs in the show, if it even happens.  This is strictly based on the comics, so it may not happen.  

 

Final Thoughts

Bob:  I give answers with stunning clarity of thought because I use my wife’s product line of all natural Posh Products.  I use the Hunka Chunk soap.  https://www.perfectlyposh.com/ShanaDugan

(I use Posh quite a bit, and although some stuff is pricey, I can say that their lotions don’t have that greasy feeling, and their chunk bars are solid.  Also, those healing sticks are great for parents, or so I have heard.  I highly recommend trying it out and blame me if you are unsatisfied.) 

Bitty:  As you all know by now I don’t read the comics so I love living in the world of not knowing what will happen next and who certain characters are and where they have been. I find it entertaining to look at Wiki Character profiles and think about them as a person. I also record and watch Talking Dead. This past season I found myself fast forwarding most of the episodes to get to the sneak peak.  (Talking Dead has had some very weak episode, BUT the Eugene and Lil Jon episode was the best episode I think.  So funny.  Bring them back, please!  More Yvette too!)

Kent:  I am grateful for everybody contributing throughout the years.  I am excited for the next season.  I know that this show is a popular punching bag, and I get it.  The thing is that most shows are the same old shit with a few twists and turns.  The fact that people are so stupid to not understand that concept is absolutely hilarious.  Same goes for Game of Thrones, The Office, Sons of Anarchy, The Sopranos, MASH, The Cosby Show, Married With Children, and so on.  This isn’t a new concept, so to those people, go watch something else and find some peace with it so I can enjoy my show.  Also, if you really think that Negan is dying in season 8, just know that you are wrong.

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