Hey everybody, we are gearing up some big shocking midseason finale. I brought along some friends to answer my silly questions about the episode. Hopefully the midseason finale lives up to the hype. Always feel free to leave your own thoughts in the comments section. All messages in bold are written by Kent, and I know damn well that some of you just come to read my responses to you.
- Eugene was clearly afraid to name Dwight to Negan toward the end of the episode. Do you think that Eugene is afraid of Dwight OR do you think Eugene feared that Negan may not take his side due to Dwight being there to refute the accusations?
Bob: Neither. I think Eugene thinks Dwight may be right and doesn’t know what the winning side will be… (Despite my long winded answer, this is surely part of it and Eugene will do Eugene 99% of the time. He is playing as well as he could have so for his survival.)
Brian: Eugene is nervous that Don Negan will react by putting both in custody and the loss of his freedom will crush him. (The whole hand kissing thing was surely a high point of the episode, at least for me. I think it was one of the most subtle scenes.)
Kristi: I think he is afraid of Negan. If he finds out he has known and kept it from him for so long, he will be done with him.(He most certainly is. I am watching the marathon now. And the 11th episode of last season was really good to see because I think it set the stage for Eugene’s actions this week.)
Chris: I think that despite his bravado, Eugene is still conflicted about what’s the right thing to do. He has had multiple opportunities to turn Dwight in, and Negan will believe him. (Do you think that it has gone from do whatever to stay alive mentality to Eugene actively seeking the morally right options, while still killing himself?)
Raylene: Eugene wanted to name him when they were alone it seemed perhaps when he looked at Dwight’s burnt face he felt sorry for him. (Yeah, that could play a role in it as well. Whatever EUgene doesn’t know about Dwight’s character, I think he has inferred the rest.)
Kent: I oftentimes have no issue giving you a confident and competent answer. This one, it’s incredibly tough, that’s why I led with it. It did feel like Eugene was set to rat out Dwight prior to everybody coming into the room. Eugene strikes me as a guy who adamantly hates conflict. In a closed off situation with little fear of repercussion, Eugene feels comfortable manipulating. Once he lost that comfort zone, he couldn’t risk it. It didn’t go as planned, and Eugene bailed. The fear of Negan’s response knowing that Dwight would have a rebuttal, not so good for Eugene. I will also add to my belief by bring up S7 Ep11, which featured Eugene’s first day at Sanctuary, the pickles and when Dwight manipulated Negan which led to the OG Dr. Carson getting tossed into the fire. I struggle with Eugene trusting Dwight.
- It feels safe to assume that Rick would welcome Eugene back to the group and allow Dwight the opportunity to join the group. Who do you feel would be more welcome from the group as a whole: Eugene the traitor or Dwight the Savior?
Bob: Eugene. He is weak and that is understood but his brain in priceless. (Yeah, his brain is priceless. I think of human nature, and we too frequently presume somebody is guilty until proven innocent. This is not a new concept, but obviously has some recent examples. I wonder if that is amplified in the ZA or if people are more forgiving for the sake of hope.)
Brian: It doesn’t matter the Ricktards are a fractured group with the leader having no idea what his followers are doing. Eugene is viewed as a harmless entity who people want to love for his uniqueness. (You just described me.)
Kristi: I have to go with Dwight. Eugene should not be forgiven. (Yeah, I think the group would see Dwight as a major victory and possible turning point in the war.)
Chris: Eugene. I think they could accept that he did what he did out of fear. Dwight kind of killed a bunch of Alexandrians. (That is a fair point. Comparatively, I think Alexandrians have like a 5 to 1 kill ratio compared to the Saviors. Could they possibly rationalize that the enemy of their enemy is now their friend?)
Raylene: I would say Dwight too many will view Eugene as a traitor now. (Yeah, I am sure that a good chunk of the “good guys” know that they got info on where all of the lookouts and whatnot are. All it takes is a few whispers. I think he’s going to viewed as a hero to some.)
Kent: Dwight is my answer. Right now, he has to be more popular among the good guys unless only a handful of people are privy to the knowledge of what Dwight is doing.
- Does Jadis find Rick to be a good subject for sculpting, or does she do it more as a mind game?
Bob: Neither, again. This is just there way of doing things. I am not sure Jadis truly knows how to play a head game. (While the show hasn’t given us any background on Jadis, we do know that she rose to power. Typically, you rise to power with brute strength or with outsmarting those who are in your way. If I had to take a guess, I would take her as the smart type and not the brute force.)
Brian: Jadis is smart and knows where her bread gets buttered. She wants Rick to keep thinking she’s crazy as that easily allows her to switch sides as her needs see fit. (Yeah, really she is among the smartest people in this whole show in my estimation. She has helped create a shorter language or use of it. She has negotiated with the 2 head honchos. She’s basically playing the game of thrones at the moment.)
Kristi: A mind game.
Chris: It’s a mind game. I think she is smarter than she lets on. (Wouldn’t you like to know what she did in life for work prior to the ZA? I bet she drank a lot of wine and had a job that annoyed her.)
Raylene: I think it’s part of the mind game but obviously she doesn’t realize he’s super cena rick.
Kent: Mindgame seems like the narrative that they wish to tell us. So I will lay out my crazy idea. Jadis was a person who worked in the art world, maybe had her own small gallery. I think that she loved wine. Has probably gone to nude beaches, one of those free spirits. For that reason, I am going to say that I think that she has thing for Rick, not necessarily romantic, but a fascination at the very least.
- Dwight shot down Eugene’s music kite. What practical purpose did this serve for Dwight?
Bob: Eugene, about to make the big problem disappear that he has been charged with doing… Has nothing at that moment to stand on. He wouldn’t have much political capital to spend on Negan since he hasn’t solved the problem. (I like the bit about the political capital. I think that is a very good possibility. It’s better than any answer that I had.)
Brian: Dwight is weak. He knows Eugene is right and he’s jealous that Don Negan prefers Eugene to him. He shot down the kite to prove to Eugene that he will foil all his plans. (Is Dwight becoming the Fredo fo TWD? If not Fredo, is there a better character choice for Dwight?)
Kristi: He is working with Rick so he is just following the plan on taking Negan down. (Dwight is a soldier, and he is doing his best. As I have alluded to in the past, Eugene and Dwight become 2 of the more fascinating characters in the comics. Whether that applies to the show is up in the air. It is cool to see Dwight’s commitment.)
Chris: I think his role in the plan is to ensure the walkers do not leave. (There’s a part of me that feels that Dwight is following a plan that he feels may get him killed, and you get a lot of depressed feelings from Dwight. I felt that this was a perfect example of Dwight’s mindset of carrying out a mission, no matter the cost, which is to ensure the walkers don’t leave, as you said.)
Raylene: Dwight knew that this would draw the walkers away and enable Negan to go retaliate which would be more deaths. (In all fairness, both ways leads to more deaths. This is just what Dwight sees as his way out, in one aspect or another.)
Kent: Dwight is a bit of a self serving soldier in that he does want to “do the right thing” and probably help Rick’s plan come together, but I truly believe that Dwight at times strikes me as a Man on Fire to reference the great Denzel film. Okay, maybe not great because the kinetic style of filmography was shit, but still, a great story.
- At the end of the day, do you think that Eugene fully believes in the concept that he is a Savior, and that he saves people, or does simply believe that he is “Negan” to stay alive?
Bob: He is a Negan to stay alive but plays a Savior to save people on TV. (This made me giggle.)
Brian: Eugene is a perfect example of the saviors way of thinking. Don Negan is providing protection and providing for his people he gives them the confidence to survive. Eugene want to see people live and he understands that Rick’s way of survival means killing innocent people that he feels cross him. The Saviors know each person has a purpose and are each needed for the whole to survive (I do believe that Eugene has bought into the Saviors way of thinking for the reasons that you suggest.)
Kristi: He is brainwashed in thinking Negan is a good guy that is helping. I think he believes the things they are doing is to help people. (Eugene is truly making out like a champ here. No where else would he be this well protected, which in turns gives him time to think on what to do next. In turn, he has tried to help people along the way.)
Chris: Self-preservation is eugenes #1 objective. (To go along with that, I have been trying to think of times where Eugene put himself in the path of any potential harm, and from what we have seen, you can count those times on one hand. The dude is smart.)
Raylene: I still am holding out hope that Eugene is just doing it to stay alive. (Well, he is one of the best survivalists in the show, so of course he is doing whatever to survive. He knows what he’s doing. It would be hilarious if he became the next antagonist on the show.)
Kent: I think he believes himself to be a savior, and has for quite some time, long before we even knew of the Saviors. He is selfish, BUT he has had good intentions to help by and large. He just doesn’t like to fight….or getting punched in the face by Abe.
- Do you think that anybody originally objected to Rick’s plan when he laid it out, or did anybody secretly disagree? I’m referring to the the time frame of the season premiere when ALL OUT WAR started.
Bob: I think everyone agreed or they all came to an agreement. I am not 100% certain this was only Rick’s plan. (I don’t think it was all of his plans either. I would surmise that Carol came up with at least 30%, Maggie or Jesus some portion, maybe Rosita, Tobin definitely.)
Brian: there are more people that are disagreeing every day. Jesus and the hilltop are against him now. The kingdom is now defunct because of rick and now since rick was again being selfish the saviors are free to reign hell on the invaders. (That’s really the foolish part is how quick so many people failed to stick to the plan, which was very smart, minus the severe waste of ammo. They deserve to lose, yet they will win. It’s like watching 1980’s Hulk Hogan.)
Kristi: I think some disagreed but I think the majority wanted an end to Negan and the saviors so they went along with it. (I agree that although some may not have loved the plan, they agreed that it was a means to an end that shouldn’t result in many casualties for their side.)
Chris: I think everyone likely agreed. Though I’m sure some people did not share their opinions. (I feel that someone like Morgan or Daryl would have had their own ways of wanting to do it. They strike me as 2 of the big naysayers.)
Raylene: I think Daryl outright disagreed and Tara was more secret (Yeah, as I just said to Chris, I don’t think Daryl was mentally all in on this. Him, Tara, Morgan,possibly Michonne and Rosita all are solid possibilities. I’m actually most surprised that they didn’t demand immediate vengeance on the Scavengers.)
Kent: No chance. There are a lot of strong personalities, or very stubborn at least.Rosita, Carl, and Michonne all seem like they would want to take out The Scavengers based on The Scavengers sorta betraying them. Carl almost died, Michonne almost died, and Rosita was shot.. On top of that, you know that Daryl wanted to just do work due to his time on Easy Street.
- If somebody from Rick’s group dies due to Daryl and Tara’s assault on Sanctuary, should Rick consider some form of punishment for them? If you say yes, what do you suggest?
Bob: Get in their face with an aggravated voice and point his finger at them. Like he always does. He will have to be speechless at first but then he will forgive them at some later episode where there is this special moment they are looking at each other OR the other person will die of convenience. Like the way everything else has gone in the show. (Hahahahaha, truer words haven’t been spoken in this blog in however many years that I have been doing it.)
Brian: rick is a horrible leader who is selfish and only is looking out for himself. His plan has already caused the deaths of numerous people but yet he walks freely. (Let’s take that to a whole other level. Rick has almost gotten his son killed numerous time. As much as I liked some of the other dead characters, none should be more important than Carl, especially Judith.)
Kristi: No. They did what they thought needed to be done. (Using that philosophy, I assume it’s ok for Negan and the Saviors to do what they do based on them doing what they thought needed to be done. If that’s the case, I can get behind that.)
Chris: Should he, yes. Will he? I doubt it. (Yeah, no chance in hell of him holding people accountable. He at least has a prison cell.)
Raylene: Yes they should be pitted to fight against each other like Merle and Daryl were (Sold! I say Rosita vs Tara and Michonne vs Daryl. Winners fight each other. Maybe they could make a deal with the Scavengers, like so many hours of modeling and then The Scavengers could hold the event there.)
Kent: I think that Rick should give them options, a few possible punishments. Give them the offer to move to another settlement. Maybe spend a month in that prison cell. One thing that most certainly would be happening if to put these people in the front for every upcoming fight. That will either kill them or they end up help win the fight.
- A lot of people bad mouthed Rosita last week. Did she do the right thing this week?
Bob: Frankly, she didn’t “do” anything. She just saw what they were doing is dumb. (Didn’t she though? Didn’t she? She stepped up to Dary;s group of terrorists. That took guts.)
Brian: Yes Rosita is starting to see the errors of their ways the Rick way is only going to get her killed.
Kristi: Yes. I’m actually really starting to like her.
Chris: Yes. Going rogue just cause more problems. Every. Single. Time. (I will add a caveat to that. I still say that Merle did the right thing when he let Michonne go free and he tried taking out the Governor. He was one fluke away from succeeding. That fucking idiot stepped in front of Governor at the last second. So yes, technically it went sort of wrong, but he still took out like 10 people.)
Raylene: Unfortunately yes she did the right thing because the other idiots were just being idiots. (The smartest idiot in the room theory. I concur.)
Kent: Yes. This plan of Daryl’s vengeance tour was beyond foolish. Daryl and Tara deserve to get got.
- What was your favorite Eugene one liner or moment from this week’s episode?
Bob: When he chickened out telling Negan the truth.
Brian: stuff that that strokes my rod.
Kristi: I liked how fearful he looked at the end. I’m just waiting for Negan to find his notebook and punish him.
Chris: I liked his reaction to when Dwight threatened him. He as clearly afraid but was oddly calm.
Raylene: When he finally flipped out on Gabe after Daryls smart move
Kent: The whole shaking Negan’s hand. I am still laughing when I see that scene, and I have rewatched it numerous times. I think everybody chose well. There were probably 8 or so one liners that I laughed at.
Bonus Double Deuce
- In hindsight, Daryl and Tara’s plan didn’t work as well as they anticipated. Still, in the moment, if you saw an opportunity to end it, would you take it, or would you follow the plan? (An example of this going poorly was Daryl (yet again) telling Carl not to take out the Governor before he beheaded Herschel.)
Bob: Follow the plan, especially at the point they were at. (That last part can’t be emphasized enough in my opinion.)
Brian: Once again Darryl shows his cowardly side. He knows they can’t take the saviors in a fair fight so he uses techniques that Rick would do and tries to kill the saviors. And again he fails. That is why he will never be a leader (The longer the show goes, I have less and less faith in Daryl being a solid leader. A good #3 or so, but never the A number 1 Duke of NY shit.)
Kristi: I’m a by the book kind of person so I would have followed the plan. (I do like to improvise, but you make a plan for a reason, and if you go through the arduous take of making aforementioned plan, well then you should do your best to follow it.)
Chris: Follow the plan. They made a plan for a reason right? Didn’t he see what happened to his brother when he went off-plan? (Haha, well that goes to show you that I don’t read this beforehand. I just read it top to bottom. I am really happy that I mentioned Merle like 2 answers ago.)
Raylene: Follow the plan especially with Negan. He is a whole new kind of a beast (Negan is definitely better set up than anybody or thing else that they have come across. I would put Terminus at #2.)
Kent: I say that you take the opportunity to end it unless you know that it’s foolproof. I use Jaime Lannister going after Dany in the most recent season of GoT as my best recent time example in a fictional show.
- What will/would it take for Daryl to stop being so headstrong and stubborn?
Bob: Him causing Carol’s death. (I would go so far as to add Carl, Judith, or Maggie to that list. Carol probably means the most to him though.)
Brian: Daryl needs to get hurt. A face scar would go along way to stopping his idiot behavior. (It would make him look more bad ass.)
Kristi: I don’t know that anything will change him. With all the crap he has been through, if he hasn’t changed yet, it’s not happening. (That is also entirely possible. The dude may just be “broken” to some extent.)
Chris: Someone really important dying (Michonne, Carol, Rick.) (Well, yeah I don’t know how I left Rick off my response to Bob. I am trying to think of how close Michonne and Daryl are. I am positive that I am forgetting some stuff, but I feel like they haven’t do much together, but I am probably wrong.)
Raylene: His actions causing Judith’s death (Yup, I said that in my Bob response as well. He has an attachment to that girl.)
Kent: Judith dying seems reasonable. A lot of you mentioned various names and I think all of them are quite important and play a n important role.)
- Obviously Negan tells Eugene what he wants to hear. WIth that being said, do you think that Negan believes some of what he says to Eugene or is it all just a ploy?
Bob: Everything Negan says is crafted to manipulate. It is sheer manipulation, nothing legitimate. Even if Negan is saying something he means, he isn’t saying it because he is sharing a part of himself, it simply happens to coincide with what NEEDS to be said.
Brian: Don Negan showed again his leadership skills and makes another desperate person feel strong and confident. Negan needs Eugene and his skills to make the entire group stronger.
Kristi: I don’t think he trusts Eugene. He has a lot more street smarts and can read people well. I think it’s just part of his master plan.. whatever that may be.
Chris: Negan is manipulative. He know exactly how the to stroke Eugene’s ego.
Raylene: I believe Negan once he sees Eugene make the bullets will start to see his true usefulness.
Kent: As of right now, there is no right or wrong answer. I truly believe that Negan believes a lot of what he says to Eugene. I am not stupid enough to say that’ it’s not entirely manipulative. The thing is, Eugene is probably the smartest dude that Negan has and I truly believe that Negan believes that in order for The Saviors to remain a large, well running machine, Eugene is a great mind to have around. He is an idea man, and a science man. Negan can trust Eugene’s loyalty. I guess what I am saying is that I really don’t believe that it’s all bullshit at the moment.I get everybody’s perspective though. Let’s not forget, Eugene has been given so much praise, respect, and trust while at Sanctuary. The sort of stuff that only Abe and Rosita had given him until the truth was revealed.
- Who’s gonna get got next week? Will the shocking moment be more than just a death?
Bob: Daryl is going to get got. (That would make it “epic”.)
Brian: we are gonna see Alexandria and the hilltop attacked the widow and others will once again be kneeling before lucille. Gabriel turns and eats the dr. Which causes Eugene to kill him. On a side note grace needs to be freed and brought back home. (Gracie deserves to be brought back to her people. Whether people like the Saviors or not, I still think that they would do their best to take care of her.)
Chris: The saviors are going to attack Alexandria, so it’s either Rosita, michonne or carl in my opinion. They are saying this will be a huge shock, so I think this time, Negan will in fact kill carl. (That’s one of 3 kills that would really ruin my day. Carl, Carol, and Eugene. I don’t want Morgon or Ezekiel to get it, but that would simply sting. Losing any of those 3 would really irk me.)
Raylene: Eugene had a lot of screen time this week so I see him getting killed (Boooooooo. Not happening. If it does, I riot.)
Kent: Gabe the walked will be unleashed. Gabriel will bite Tara. I think Gregory also gets got.
Brian: the Ricktards have kicked the hornets nest and will feel the rath of the saviors. It’s time for arl to his sister to be brought home to the saviors and raised by their true father.
Chris: I hope the second half of this season is a little more fast paced. All out war has not been what I had hoped so far. Plus I would like to see Negan more. Was he even in half the episodes?
Raylene: I hope when they return in February the episodes are better
Kent: I am really thrilled with how they have evolved Eugene’s character up to this point. Yes, it’s subtle and nothing compared to how we will view him by the season 8 finale, but still, they have done a stand up job. I know this show is hard to watch for the most seasoned viewers, and I get it. The best thing I can say is to enjoy these next 9 episodes. You may be happy when ALL OUT WAR ends, but I fear that there is some boring ass stuff coming up, like maybe worse than season 5 and 6.when they were going through the motions.
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