TWD S7 Ep6 9 Deuce
Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the best TWD blog that you will read this hour. I practically guarantee it! Today, we will be discussing this week’s Tara centered YAWWWWWWWN episode called “Swear”. Sorry, I’m just so tired that I had to type that in. Let’s face it, this episode is getting some bad feedback on the internet. No, I shall not use the term “interwebs”. I’d like to introduce you to my panel of contributors this week: Raylene, Bob, Cece, Briana, Teddy, Bits, and Eric. I am your host, Kent, and I ask the questions and then make lots of comments throughout because, ya know, it’s my blog and I can do that sort of thing. Also, please share, like, or comment on this blog. Come on, you know that you begrudgingly want to. Also, thank you Bitty for this delightful picture. Please send in your TWD memes and I will include them!
- Are you a fan of the episodes that focus on one character or group of characters the whole episode? If you are somewhere in the middle, give me an example of one that you liked and one that you disliked.
Raylene: I am a fan of when they do the whole group or multiple stories for the episode. If you are going to do one character episode you need to make sure it’s a character that people care about.
Bob: I am in the middle of the road. Tarasode was terrible. “I haven’t eaten in forever, but I am a chunker!” Darylsode from earlier was much better, but there was a lot more intrigue. In a sense the show did a poor job of grabbing you and stealing your attention away. Daryl’s was like that, because we were all waiting. I think we were all like, “Oh yea, Tara…”(Daryl’s was an example of it done properly as they built it up, gave us backstory, it was nice. Tara’s weight issue, it’s unavoidable, and yet, it comes off silly, but I suppose it’s silly to nitpick a fictional TV show with zombies. Still, everybody is starving, and here she comes.)
Cece: I like the separation of characters and their stories, mostly. I don’t find Tara too interesting though, but, I do like character development. So, this is a cool concept.
Briana: I guess I’m middle of the road on this one. Some of them are interesting. I liked the Tyrese episode and a few others but Tara was not the character to have an entire episode about. No one is a huge Tara fan! Come on now! Haha! (I still feel that Tyreese’s story could have been told more thoroughly. I loved that guy.)
Teddy: I personally like the opportunity for developing characters that are newer or less developed. Not to mention we are running out of original characters to love lol (I don’t think anybody would have been sad to have seen Ezekiel’s backstory along with Jerry and Shiva, rather than just being told it. This could have happened, and would have been great.)
Bits: I’m the complete opposite of probably 95% of the people. I liked this episode. I love discovering more about their world. I found humor in Tara. (That 95% is way too low.)
Eric: While i enjoy backstory and character development. dedicating a whole episode to a minor character seems like overkill…… (That’s the thing, you don’t dedicate that much time to an expendable character who has had a relatively minor impact. Which worries me that she may last longer.)
Kent: I’m right in the middle. Last season’s Morgan episode was one of the best episodes that they have done in my opinion. This season’s episode with Daryl and Dwight is another shining example of storytelling done right for me. With that being said, the stuff with Beth in the hospital did nothing but waste too much time. I would have preferred a Bob Stuckey origin hour, or to see Sasha and Tyreese’s group’s voyage before they reached the prison.
- Would you have preferred more on Heath’s story rather than the fake out walker at the end with similar hair as Heath?
Raylene: I would have rather had the focus on what happened to Heath for I think Tara is useless. (Go on…)
Bob: No, Heath can’t even make the 9 deuce symbol with his hands because he doesn’t know how… (This is absolutely how you guarantee a comment. How do you feel about the guy who plays Heath as the lead in the new 24?)
Cece: Of course. Heath has depth. I wish they would have purely focused on him this episode and not really her. Meh. (Meh inDEE!)
Briana: Hell yeah! I want to know where he went Dammit! The fake out wasn’t a terrible addition but I would have liked to see what’s up with him. (I hated the fake out because if I was Heath, and somebody came back to check on me in 3 days or however long, and you saw Vin Deisel or Howie Mandell, somebody not quite my size, despite the bald head, you wouldn’t think it was me. They messed up with the body proportions.)
Teddy: I mean Heath was a bitch this episode so I personally wished it was him
Bits: No, Heath is fine. He chose him over her.
Eric : Hopefully we see what happened to Heath in a later epi (That would seem reasonable)
Kent: Of course I’d prefer anything to Tara’s dumb ass. I don’t like Heath’s odds of survival While still alive in the comic, he has been a side character at best and usually a background guy. He is also the star of the reboot of 24 on FOX. In theory, he can stay alive as nobody aside from a select few are getting much screen time this season, so he may stay alive this season and see if 24 gets picked up for a second season. I like Heath quite a bit actually, but I think his time is almost up. This episode would have been better if we could have seen what both characters ended up doing rather than the Tara hour.
- Do you agree with Oceanside’s policy of killing anybody who stumbles upon them?
Raylene: I agree with Oceansides policy since we got the story of how Negan killed the men and boys over 10 plus they took of in the middle of the night all they want to do is be hidden so I think its the only way.
Bob: Yes. Their place, their rules.
Cece: Somewhat. I mean, it’s hard in that world. It would be hard to trust anyone and you have to survive…
Briana: Absolutely! Mostly because they’re a group of all women. Their only advantage on potentially threatening people is their guns and hiding place so they’ve got to use what they have.
Teddy: In the apocolypse, I would find it hard to believe that anyone would have any other views. I personally would adapt this mentality because I already don’t have faith in humanity so why would that improve when the world is fucked?
Bits: Yes, the Oceanside has already lost so much. They are hurt and trying to survive. The saviors killed all they loved.
Eric: while it might seem extreme to some people. considering what oceanside has been through. i agree with it. with the threat being more human based than walker based. it seems like a good idea. we saw how well it worked out with rick asking “the Questions” it always didnt work out.
Kent: At first, I said yes, but now, I am thinking that it is bad. Yes, for their immediate security, it makes all of the sense in the world of scared women. Here’s the thing, if you have survived this long, then there has to be some foresight on the future. How do you make for a brighter future? You gotta have a new generation. You need men to, you know, repopulate this place. Not only that, you need to build relationships with other communities and take that chance. I know some of you would rather stay in a small place and feel safe than to take huge risks, but in the zombie apocalypse, you have to take calculated risks to survive long term at some point. I am alone in this opinion.
- Will we ever see or hear from the residents of Oceanside ever again?
Raylene: Yes we will just not this season
Bob: Sure, after the Saviors do come across them, kill them and Cindy runs to Alexandria… (Ohhhh, I hadn’t considered that. It would give Tara a new love interest as well, and you know the producers love that.)
Cece: I hope not. They were all boring and rigid as fuck. (Rigid is such a good term to apply here. The characters lacked in so many ways. They had nothing to work with!)
Briana: I think not. I don’t see Tara selling them out and I think this was more just to give us an example of what it would look like to run away from the Saviors and maybe show that it can be done if it came down to it for our group. (I also hadn’t considered this option. Good idea.)
Teddy: I believe their experience with fighting the Saviors and surviving (not to mention being left alone) would come in handy for Hilltop and Alexandria in the inevitable conflict to come with Negan (You’re right. The thing is, their story is lazy writing and it didn’t match anything else. In theory it serves as a potential blueprint, but it really doesn’t work like that, as you know from reading the comics. It’s frustrating to me.)
Bits: I hope so. I see some potentials there. Plus the Virginia beach?! Yes!!! (Who had potential? I simply didn’t see any character with any future unless you want to force Cindy, which I guess would work. I’d like more follow up on this one to know who you think has future potential.)
Eric : if Tara tells anyone at Alexandira about Oceanside. Rick might try to get some of their supplies to help them with the saviors (Would Rick take by force or make a deal is the question.)
Kent: I truly hope not. They were a daft group of dummies. There wasn’t a single likable character that I would like to see ever again. The only thing I would be cool with is Tara on her deathbed after walker Rosita bites her, and she tells Rick about Oceanside. When Rick goes to check it out, you see nothing but charred bodies. Then, hell yeah! Otherwise, no.
- Did Cindy do the right thing in helping Tara at the end?
Raylene: No she should’ve let Tara be killed she doesn’t know her that well and only taking someones promise now a days is foolish. (Anything suggesting that Tara gets killed is a winner.)
Bob: Cindy did the only moral thing she could live with, so yes absolutely.
Cece: I guess. I’m honestly bored… (But is this any worse than the season finale of AHS???)
Briana: Yes but only because we know Tara. If I were one of Oceanside, I’d probably have a different opinion on that. (The whole thing about we know them so it jades our viewpoints is really something that the writers are milking this season if you think about it.)
Teddy: I believe she stuck to her morals which is hard to do given not only the times but the fact they were attacked
Bits: in my opinion yes. I’m still looking for the good in people.
Eric: Cindy still has faith in humanity. Making her “Swear” shows her naivety (NICE tie in with the name of the episode!)
Kent: For my viewing pleasure in the immediate present, no. I would have loved everybody to have died. BUT long term, she is the only one with foresight to think that eventually they will need help from other communities if they are going to survive long term. So technically, yes, she did.
- Do you find it a tad preposterous that the whole group of women just managed to escape from the Saviors?
Raylene: It really depends on if Negan had people watching the ladies but usually he’s not that sloppy so yeah its ridiciolous (Truth)
Bob: Nahh, ya know crafty.. and something else…. I get the image of pressing “A” in Mario Party 3 swim game for some reason. Yes. (I listened to the beginning of Mario Party 3 while editing this. SO that’s neat. You’re answer amused me, and we are of course talking about Cheep Cheep Chase. Notice who died first in the video.)
Cece: A little bit. Especially because they’re so close with watching their people over there. We see that example with how they were with Daryl. (Uh huh, you get it.)
Briana: Yes!! In fact I hoped you’d ask something along these lines. My house has had several conversations of “why don’t they just run?” But I just don’t see how that’s possible after what we’ve seen the Saviors are capable of doing. They’re everywhere! They keep such a close eye on their worker bees, I just don’t see how anyone could slip passed them. (There you go! These are questions that we must ask ourselves. Poor writing in this case I do believe.)
Teddy: Well Negan does show women respect. Like the time when he told Dwight that he needed to get consent from women if he were to have sex with them (You bring up a point that I hope they elaborate upon further down the line.)
Bits: I bet that the saviors know exactly where they are. Negan could be saving them for a “breeding” ground. (Hmmmm, love it.)
Eric : Yes i do. Rick and his crew have been through almost war.. it seems kind of crazy that a bunch of old ladies could have fought off the savior’s with no repercussions. (And they were allowed to keep all of those guns!)
Kent: This possibly bothered me just as much as seeing Tara’s stupid face for a damn hour. Rick’s group of bad asses couldn’t have pulled that feat off, in my opinion. But these women, who seem to lack any tactical skills, somehow pulled this off? This part of the plot was flat out lazy writing and insulting to the viewer’s intelligence. If a group of 15 Abe Ford clones pulled it off, I could have bought into that. Is it too late to make clones of Abe?
- Was the Walking Dead doing their best to follow the Hollywood trend of making things “all women”?
Raylene: Absolutely they were following trends because everything has to be about females now boo urns.
Bob: No, they just added a new thing, and it is boring.
Briana: I didn’t take it that way but I’m not very hip to all the trends. Lol! I found the back story very relevant. I could definitely see Negan killing all of their men thinking it would keep the women in line.
Teddy: I don’t see it that way at all. I believe they’re trying to hint at almost an Amazonian colony.(Where was Gal Gadot when you needed her?)
Bits: not sure, didn’t know that was the trend. (Just wait for the all female re-make of Ocean’s Eleven and Lost Boys. Ghostbusters happened. The Evil Dead remake was an afront to all things pure in horror. It’s a nasty little trend.)
Eric: it an open world where anything is possible.. its feasible that there would be a camp of mostly woman.
Kent: Obviously. You don’t bring Paul Feig on to Talking Dead and not assume that something this asinine isn’t on the cusp of occurring. Nobody was asking for something like this, and looking around on the internet, nobody was overly happy to see this tripe. The show is at it’s best with a nice mixture of both sexes, and by that I mean Carol and the guys, with a dash of Enid.
- Would the episode have been better if the Oceanside community was made up of the families of the people that Rick’s group assaulted at the Outpost? Basically, instead of the Saviors being the bad guys, it would make the Alexandrians the bad guys from their perspective.
Raylene: It would’ve added a nice little twist to the story instead it just directed to you hate the Saviors even more.
Bob: That’s what I was thinking during a commercial and it didn’t happen and I had a big dose of disappointment sauce… (That disappointment sauce is nasty. I miss Pour Jim’s sauce.)
Cece: It would be interesting.
Briana: When Tara first started telling the story about the outpost, I actually thought that’s where they were going with it based on the looks of the others at the table. Would it have been a better story? Maybe. But I did like the direction it took because it touched on the option of running and as I said, that’s been something I’ve been curious about through most of the season.
Teddy: I mean I think it would’ve been pretty interesting to see that play out but I don’t really see anyone not a part of the saviors being sympathetic (I think that’s a problem. It’s like wrestling when they force feed you to like the good guy, when things are more often grey. )
Bits: At first I thought that was the case! When the leaders face reacted the way she did I thought Tara was dead on the spot. It was so crappy though how they were going to kill her regardless.
Eric: I think it would have complicated the story too much (Sometimes simpler is better. I think for story, this was a chance to take a risk, but I can see your point.)
Kent: Of course. It would have added a whole new layer of storytelling to the dichotomy of the show. Instead, let’s just make the audience blindly hate Negan’s group even more, despite up to this point, haven’t objectively been painted as the bad guys. Think about how much better this could have been in this group was returning to the compound when they saw the ambush and simply bailed out of fear and set this place up. With some minor tweaks, this story could have actually been interesting. But nahhhh.
- Should Tara have told Rosita about Oceanside and their guns?
Raylene: Yes it would have made Tara much more sinister perhaps a more interesting character. (Yeah, an opportunity to make Tara multidimensional would have been welcome.)
Bob: I suppose not, Tara is a the biggest and worst liar I have seen on TV. It was like watching Hillary in a debate. “I’m not with her.” (Although I do not condone political statements in this blog….I laughed.)
Cece: Nah. There’s really no need to mention them. They’re pointless. (Pointless and loaded with weaponry!)
Briana: No. I mean it might be good for the group if they could somehow find a way to get their guns but I don’t think they’d be able to hijack them without getting a lot of people killed. And outside of it being unproductive, it just wouldn’t be right for her to sell them out. (I don’t know. If you were supposed to be murdered by this group, would you mind selling them out? I sure as hell wouldn’t, but that’s just me.)
Teddy: No she stuck to her morals. Just because she loves her group doesn’t mean she would sell out someone else for them. I think she went in with that intention but instead learned to see them not as enemies but possible ancestors (But why is it selling out? They were going to kill her.)
Bits: Such a shitty position to be in. Tara doesn’t have strong roots with any group. She had jumped from group to group so far and i bet that will happen again. Tara is flighty. (She should have stuck with the Governor and saved him!)
Eric: with the current state of Alexandria….yes
Kent: If she truly cares about Alexandria, then yes, she should have. If her loyalty is wavering, then no. It’s not like Rick would just go there and steal their weapons knowing their story. He would have tried working out a deal, and maybe handled it himself instead of letting Maggie handle it.
- What is the worst episode of The Walking Dead that you have ever seen?
Raylene: The episode with Beth and Daryl burning the trailer in the woods was the worst but this one was right up with that.
Bob: Tarasode, it being fresh swings my vote.
Cece: I can’t recall. But, this was probably one of them.
Briana: I don’t know if I can pick just one! Lol! I found a lot of the walking to terminus episodes to be incredibly boring and this one was pretty terrible too! (Season 4.5 is my least favorite half season. It had a lot of lousy things.)
Teddy: Worst episode to me honestly was the episode that carl got shot while looking at a deer. (“What Lies Ahead” is the name of that episode. It was the season 2 premiere. Did you know that they cut out a scene from that episode that elaborate more on the Vatos from season one?)
Bits: What a brilliant question!! I have no idea!! There have been many many flops but I do know that the ones with Beth and Darryl dragged me down. Also a lot of the Morgan story lost my interest. (Sucking up will get you everywhere.)
Eric: They have all been pretty solid….. the worst part is waiting for new episodes to come out. (If you think about it, it’s tough to competently judge episodes or season when you are watching week to week. When you binge watch a season on NetFlix, for instance, even if you have a lousy episode, the bad taste is removed from your mouth within an hour.)
Kent: There are a handful that stick out. This one is there. The midseason 2 premiere called Nebraska where Herschel goes to the bar and we deal with those 2 ninnies and we meet Randall was bad. Then of course the Beth episodes. Beth with Daryl in the woods and flipping off the burning house was the worst as it really cemented the pussification of Daryl, and he hasn’t been the same since. On top of that, any Beth in the hospital episode were garbage, aside from the episode in which Beth got shot, which was AWESOME!!!
- Is it fair for people to criticize this season for introducing so many new places/communities and their occupants, when Game Of Thrones has way more people and communities and is widely considered one of the 2-3 best shows on TV currently?
These pics are property of HBO, and whoever created the memes.
Raylene: Other then the premiere which I never want to see again this season hasn’t been too good so far hopefully the second half will be better. Everyone seems to find fault with alot of things lately so its fair yes
Bob: It would seem to me all people do is criticize. It is fair for the show to do as it will, at its own peril or not… (I like this answer because that’s what it comes down to. Our critiques are meaningless because they have a game plan and they must execute it. What we have is the power to not watch live or watch at all or not buy anything from the advertisers. All critiques otherwise hold very little value when it comes to TV.)
Cece: It just isn’t working for this show, per say. There’s not enough character development being used. I’m not sure if the actors suck or if the writing is just getting more lazy. I remember when this show used to be more about the stories of the people than just boring one minute action shots. Where’s the depth? (Writing is lazy. There you go. Unfortunately, to create this big new world, we have to sit through a lot of this stuff for the end game to mean anything.)
Briana: Yes and no. I agree it could be a bit of a double standard but Game of Thrones is a very different kind of show than Walking Dead. You have to have different communities when the whole show is about how they battle with each other all the time. But I do think the new communities in Walking Dead are relevant to this story. There would be several communities at this point in the apocalypse because this is when people would start rebuilding. So I say yes it’s unfair. Everything in Walking Dead has a purpose so we need to wait and see where they’re taking the story before making a judgement on that aspect. (I’m giving you the slow clap. Really well said.)
Teddy: I mean you really cannot compare them. Game of Thrones kills characters almost every episode, whereas TWD tends to only kill if it happens in the comics (although they change the targets sometimes like with Tyrese and Hershel’s death). (GoT also has hundreds of characters at their disposal to off at any point as there was an apocalypse that wiped out 99% of the population by this point, although Cersei did her best. It is an apples to oranges comparison, but it’s legit when I suggest that in GoT there are 7 kingdoms plus the ice walkers. and the Wall. Here in TWD, people are openly bitching online about getting to know 4, now 5, small communities. People suggest that they are bored with the rinse and repeat nature of our group finding a place, then having issues and moving on to the next place. So now they are settled down and we meet new communities, expanding the possibilities, and people are still bitching. It’s a tough fanbase to appease compared to GoT’s fanbase. So that’s where my comparisons are. Why are people so cool with one but not the other? They have very similar fan bases.)
Bits: people will always find something to bitch about, that we know. However, if you are a fan of stories and fantasy you will love every character, every place and every world that is introduced. I’m a fan. (As a fan of anything, it’s good to have some things that you love to hate. Whether it be the bad guy, or the boring lesbian, you usually have something that you don’t like, but you embrace that because it helps keep you vested in what you’re viewing. So I agree because it’s still a love thing, just a love to hate.)
Eric: I used to watch G.O.T and stopped watching it when the story got too broad.. TWD seems to be heading in that direction but in a slower manner….. (To have a long run, things need to open up, or else a show or story will get stale. It’s the nature of the beast. Even a show that had only 5 season in Breaking Bad, still expanded it’s universe quite a bit. It comes down to what kind of longevity they want from a story.)
Kent: People are free to criticize it, but in my opinion, the majority of the “haters” are being a little short sighted. In order for a show that you love to progress and evolve, you need new blood and a bigger cast, especially when so many die. Do you really just want Alexandria vs The Saviors? Then Alexandria moves to the next town and fights the new sheriff in town? That’s repetitive as hell. Instead, we now have Hilltop and The Kingdom to join in the fray, and there can be strategy utilized. It allows for people to switch their allegiances and cause more dramatic dynamics. You have to establish who these people are or else when things happen next season, they won’t mean anything. Also, watching week to week vs binge watching the season will cause people to be more critical, and that is natural. You could have told the story of The Lord of the Rings in a 3 hour movie, but it wouldn’t have had the same impact, or Star Wars, Hunger Games, The Stand, or any other longer story. Let it evolve and pick up on the small enjoyable nuances.
I do want to say, a lot of the criticism is in part due to the cliffhanger. They should have revealed the deaths last season. Then the whiny people could have gone to their safe place. That way everybody could come in to this season with a fresh perspective. Instead, people got so amped from the premiere, this season has become a major emotional let down. Well duh, that was inevitable. People want to talk about slower pacing, lower ratings. To those people, I seriously ask, just what in the blue hell were you expecting? Think about it reasonably and of course the show had to reset itself for the next strike. The show was going to lose viewers from the biggest TV episode in years. How is this a surprise to anybody? Not all criticisms are created equally. Fair, I guess. Lacking logic in 85% of what I read in forums and in articles though is a tad sad though.
Also, here are 2 articles that I read that I found informative.
Once again, I want to thank all of my contributors. I love your ideas, even if I don’t agree with them, like Bitty finding Tara funny. Thank you all and please do share this with your TWD friends. Have a nice day.
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.