Hi everybody, this is Kent, and I’m back for this week’s TWD blog. Bitty, Kristi, and Chris lend their thoughts and opinion on this week’s episode. We are still missing some people, but hopefully we will be at full strength soon. Bob, you and your family are in our thoughts. This week was a really good episode and we had a lot of varying thoughts, so this is an interesting read this week. Any comments in BOLD are written by me. Please enjoy.
In Michonne’s segment, she seemed far more concerned with that flaming structure in memory of Carl. Shouldn’t she have tried finding a way to preserve the wood panels that have Carl and Judith’s handprints, from a sentimental standpoint?
Bitty: maybe so yes. However, it made for a way more dramatic moment. I didn’t understand trying to save that structure, we never really saw Carl on the roof there much. (Right, it’s not like he had great moments there or any one big moment. So they seemingly tried to make something significant without any validation. Typical female……)
Kristi: Absolutely! That would have been a great idea. (Thank you, thank you. I will be here all night….because this is where I sleep.)
Chris: I would have loved if she cut out the painted hands to give to Judith as a memorial. Maybe she still has hope that they can return to Alexandria? (Yes to your first thought. What you said in the second sentence though is the main question, right? Like ALexandria got F’d up!!! Yet Rick’s house was fine….go figure. They are taking a dramatic directional change from the comic, and in a way, I am curious what they do with Alexandria moving forward. They will probably show a montage of them rebuilding set to some awful hippie jam band playing music. If they play Easy Street though and we see Daryl rename a street Easy Street, I am so sold.)
Kent: Yeah, obviously I am going to agree with my question.
Do you think that Negan fears for Gavin’s safety at this point?
Bitty: I don’t think Fear is the right word. Isn’t suspicious of something, I think so. (Yeah, fear wasn’t the right word. I get it. I failed.)
Kristi: I don’t think Negan fears much of anything. I’m sure he knows something is up but I don’t think it’s a huge concern for him. (I think Negan fears loneliness above everything else. Having read the comic and seen how they portray him on the show, I don’t think anything would bother him more than social seclusion…..hint hint hint.)
Chris: Ok don’t think he fears for him. At this point, he knows something went sour, but he didn’t seem overly worried. (I don’t think Negan values Gavin as much as he does most of his other lieutenants or whatever they are called.)
Kent: Goddamnit people! I didn’t think everybody here would take the word fear that literally, but you did and now I look like a moron. Thank you, everybody!! Should I have put “Negan is concerned for Gavin’s well being”? Yeah. Missed opportunity here, just moving along. No gold stars!!!!
Is it really important to have Oceanside join the war?
Bitty: Hee Hee. Yup!! They have guns, warrior women, amo and are healthy!! (Didn’t Rick take most of the weapons and ammo? They aren’t Lucy Lawless. Screw a serious response. Like 2-3 years ago, I came across this Skinemax film called Sexy Warriors, and it was fucking hilarious. I never can find it for a reasonable price, but I will someday own it.)
Kristi: I don’t think so. Extra people would be good but I think Rick will figure it out either way. (I’m still not sure why they should even help Rick’s group. They have done a lot of damage to the Oceansiders. They just want to be left alone, not sure why they should risk their lives for 2 groups of assholes, from their perspective.)
Chris: ugghh no. They are boring. I’m not sure what their purpose is, but they have no guns. How are they going to help take down the Saviors when better groups have struggled? (Okay, I know this is lewd, but man to man hear, sex still sells in the apocalypse, and I feel that would be their best weapon. Distractions are incredibly valuable. That is their only real use, well that and fish. The extra protein could truly be a game changer in the war. If one side is malnourished with a lack of protein, we know that can be a huge hindrance in the real world. Look at professional fighters who cut weight in stupid ways. They get beat usually. That’s why Macho Man was tough to beat. He snapped into Slim Jims prior to his matches and he had amazing breathe during his matches.)
Kent: No, I declare them obsolete.
Did you think that Simon went too far in how he executed most of the Scavengers or was it the right call given their betrayal to the Saviors?
Bitty: I was really surprised Simon went that far. I’m not sure it was what he should’ve done. They did play both sides but he should’ve known they will play for whoever gives them the better deal. He broke almost like Morgan broke when he killed the savior. (It’s tough to say when somebody goes too far. If you get betrayed in our current world, it may sting or hurt, but probably won’t be life-threatening. In this world, betrayal can get you got. So the ramifications are totally different, so I don’t know what is “too far” in all honesty.)
Kristi: Yes, I think taking out a few of them was necessary but taking out all of them was a bit extreme. They were, after all, just following their leader. (See, and that is the difference between Negan and Simon. Negan would have gotten wood, Lucille that is, seeing how loyal these people were to their leader. Simon simply wanted to flex his nuts.)
Chris: No. They turn on every alliance. They would have turned on the Saviors again. Besides, he went there with the full intention of killing them all. He kept egging Jadis on hoping she would do something stupid. (I loved how Steven Ogg and Pollyanna played that scene. It was really well done. You’re right, he wanted to push her so he felt validated. In the end, he said screw validation, and he became a millennial for a moment, seeking his instant gratification rather than consider the long term. Plus he was just pissed at how Negan talked to him.)
Kent: I think that Simon was right in what he did. I know that sounds harsh. The Scavengers are whoooores. Hear me out. They chase the money. Well, you get used enough with no loyalty from that skank, and eventually, ou order your posse to kill a bitch. I bet Tarantino would agree with Simon.
What will be Simon’s punishment from Negan for disobeying orders?
Bitty: Simon will not get in trouble. I don’t think there will be another visit to the garbage heap. (Once again, I wish I would have worded this question differently. Instead of punishment, I wish I would have asked what consequences Simon will face. Oh well. There’s really no sense to go back to the garbage heap……oh wait…solar panels and helipad. Come on Bitty!!)
Kristi: Lucille. She needs some action. (Maybe this makes me a sick fuck, but I want Lucille to quench her thirst. I know she’s thirsty. I would accept Simon dying to her. I guarantee that Steven Ogg would be super excited about it.)
Chris: There might not be any. Negan might not realize what actually happened until too late. (Yeah, without any knowledge of timelines, it’s tough to really guess. We assume that the war ends in 6 episodes. That is not much time for Negan to be worrying about this stuff.)
Kent: I think it may get overlooked and the repercussions won’t be felt from Negan, but somebody else obviously. Negan has to worry about the betrayals in his ranks that are more important. Gavin is dead. Simon and Dwight have betrayed him, his wives wanted him dead, and there’s a Mullet Revolution still brewing I believe.
Wild prediction time. Who do you think will kill Simon?
Bitty: A walker. I think Negan will toss him out of the inner circle soon. Negan is not stupid and he can sense that Simon is beginning to disagree with him. Simon will try to leave on his own and get bit or attacked. (I think it was just last year that I was bitching that we needed the walkers to get more kills. Then Carl happened. A second big name would help us believe in the threat again util Rick and Michonne fight off 173 of them in 3 minutes.)
Kristi: Either Lucille or Negan will allow Jadis to do it. (That latter option would be very interesting. If Simon is away on a mission and Jadis pays Negan a visit. That could be very delicous.)
Chris: I have 2 choices. Either Maggie or Jadis. (I hope it’s not Maggie, but you are right. The show is hell bent on trying to make her seem powerful and dangerous. I don’t like that you are right/)
Kent: Janis Got a Gun? I feel Bob would have possibly answered in this way. Miss ya buddy.
Do you feel bad for Janis? Also, how cool was that grinder scene?
Bitty: As you may not know I hate horror films and gore. (Say what???) However, there is something about walkers that I can tolerate… BUT THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY NAUSEATING. Do I feel bad for Jadis? Somewhat yes. She lost everyone she was with and now is solo so in that respect I feel bad. It was really interesting to hear her speak in complete sentences. Turns out she was playing a part like Ezekiel. (Yeah, how interesting was it to hear her talk like a normal person? That was fascinating TV to me.)
Kristi: I did feel bad for her. Losing everyone you care about must have seriously sucked. It was nice to hear her story and hear her speak like a normal person. It actually made me like her a little. The grinder scene was pretty badass. Very smart of her to do that. It was almost kind of her to get it done so her friends didn’t have to be Walkers for long. (I found peace in the grinder scene, unlike Aaron just letting Eric be a walker.)
Chris: I kind of feel bad, but she was setting herself up for this with all the double-crosses. The grinder scene was awesome. You could feel Jadis’s pain. Looked like zombie chili….. (I believe they kept referring to it as chili on Talking Dead. She had to finally pay the piper. I am curious if she joins another group now.)
Kent: This is exactly why I was so thrilled to see Pollyanna on this show. I am very familiar with her work on screen and she is so talented. It was great to see her finally get to act a bit and she nailed it. Of course, I don’t feel bad for her. Even in the non ZA, if you keep screwing over large groups in a large capacity the way the Scavengers did, then at some point, bad shit is coming your way.
Is Rick making a mistake in not heeding Carl’s plea for peace? At this point, who wants peace more: Rick or Negan?
Bitty: Ugghhh that scene between between Rick and Negan was heartbreaking. It really made me question who is right. Rick, Negan or Carl. Carl wanted a peaceful future and rick just wants a future no matter how he gets there. (This episode truly had some of the best acting from this whole show’s history. Between this and how the Jadis and Simon thing, damn. It’s basically, Carl wants the idealistic scenario, while Rick and Negan want the achievable one.)
Kristi: This is a hard one.I think Rick wants to have peace but Negan did kill Ricks people. That can’t be forgiven. Negans peace is controlling people and hurting those who don’t follow his orders. That’s pretty crappy and not at peaceful. Rick at least let’s his people live without too much disturbance. (Well, how many of Negan’s people did Rick kill before any of his group got killed? A LOT! Rick’s group shows up, takes over Alexandria from the previous regime quintessentially, and then doesn’t like their current situation, so they make a deal for a better life at the expense of Savior’s lives. It’s far more complicated because we didn’t have 5 seasons dedicated to the lives of those that Rick killed first. I like things in black and white, but man, there is a sea of grey here, at least 50 shades of it.)
Chris: I think it’s too early to tell. More people are going to die, but even if he quit Negan would punish them and kill people. I think they both want peace. Negan just wants a peace ruled by fear, while Rick doesn’t. (Rick does not really like it when people disagree. He gets in fights with them like Shane, Daryl, and Pete. Then to go back to how the whole thing went with how he handled Tyrese’s groups. The whole thing, it’s tough. I will ask this. If another group came by that worked similarly to the Savior’s, would Negan declare war against them, or would they combine resources? Most assume war. Maybe ALL OUT war.)
Kent: Negan wants peace more, Rick wants stability more, from my perspective. The Saviors save people.
Rank the 6 segments from best to worst. The segments include Michonne, Negan, Enid, Simon, Janis, and Rick.
Bitty: Rick, Negan, Enid, Simon Jadis, Michonne.
Kristi: Jadis, Simon, Rick, Negan, Enid, Michonne- although the walkers face being ripped off was pretty great. (YES! Now that is some gold star worthy shit right there.)
Chris: Jadis, Enid, Simon, Rick, Negan, Michonne.
Kent: Rick, Simon, Jadis, Negan, Enid, Michonne
Sooooo there is a helipad and solar panels at the dump. While I think we can all agree that the helipad is more interesting, which of these 2 items will prove more useful moving forward?
Bitty: I must’ve missed that totally. helipad. (You know that look of disappointment that I have been known to give with a dash of disbelief? Good, now you know what I look like.)
Kristi: The helipad. I feel it will be more useful. Not sure for what but I’m sure it will play a part of something badass in the future. (Bad ass……I hope so. It could be the tool that leads the group toward where they are in the comic, but where are now…..but I don’t think we ever see that in the show if I am betting my hairline on it.
Chris: Alexandria already had solar panels, so I’ll go with a helipad. After all, walkers cannot fly. (Wouldn’t it be safe to assume those panels are damaged? I would think so.)
Kent: I have to go solar panels here. I actually thought I was going to have to come up with some wacky reason to say helipad, but nope. I know that if I am alive in this situation, I have a much better chance of learning how to use the solar panel than the helicopter, which we don’t even know where that may be.Plus the fuel that the chopper is going to need. Solar Panel 50% of the time, every time.
In the real world, not TWD, what would Aaron realistically hope to accomplish given everything that has happened to the Oceansiders?
Kristi: He just needs some friends. (He could possibly enjoy gossip too! A place with all women, that is a gossip center.)
Chris: It would be an accomplishment to not die. 😄 (Fact.)
Kent: I’ll toss this out there. What about trying to repopulate the world a bit? I don’t that goes against his orientation, but it’s a thought if he could pull off that magic trick.
Bitty: I hate to say I want to see more emotion like that from Negan. Raw real emotion, not cocky bs.
Kristi: I really enjoyed this episode. I have had zero interest in Jadis the whole time. She was just a filler character for me since she arrives. I feel for her now and really want to see what happens to her. I’m also super excited to see Negan’s reaction when he finds out what happened. Great episode altogether.
Chris: Great episode in my opinion. I want to see what happens with Jadis. I am finally interested in her character.
Kent: We weren’t alone in thinking this episode was great. Prior to this episode, the 2 high points for the season was the previous week’s 7.0, and the episode where Gabriel got Negan to talk some before they battled the horde got a 7.4. This episode got an 8.1. It deserves it. I talk to a lot of people about the show, and just this week I talked with Bitty and Kristi at least, Chris and I do not gossip much. The big thing is that this episode finally allowed even the biggest Negan hating people (I will not say haters….damnit, now I did) to at least question things. Is Negan really 100% pure evil, or is he simply a villain to the main audience because of the lineup. And go back and consider the lineup. He couldn’t take Rick or Carl out, so he took out the guy that seemed to be the biggest trouble maker, which was Abe. As much as I loved Abe, Negan wasn’t wrong. Abe would have been a HUGE pain in Negan’s ass, and may have killed him. Everything after that wasn’t 100% on Negan. Daryl caused Glenn’s death. Had Negan not swung the bat a second time, would the group have truly feared him or taken him as seriously? No, it would be the Terminis situation all over again. Not a big scary threat. Negan needed to look all powerful in that moment after having lost 30-40 people to Rick’s reckless antics.The Saviors do save people. A lot of the current Saviors would have been zombie food by now without Negan and the Saviors. We forget about that because it doesn’t jive with out narrative. It’s easier to simply look at Negan and think evil man. How many people has Rick truly saved? Maybe 5% of the people that Negan has. Rick has been a bad ass too. What makes this story so damn good, when they do it right, is that there isn’t a good or bad, it’s just what we have been brainwashed to consider our good group. Let’s not forget Morales and how he was saved, until he got killed by Rick’s group. And I want you to consider, which group do you think has killed more people, The Saviors or Rick’s Group? In some capacity or another, Rick’s group is responsible for all of Woodbury to be dead. That was a good, thriving community. Terminus was thriving, if not awful people. How much of Alexandria’s citizens are still alive since Aaron brought Rick through those gates? Yes, Negan is the antagonist to this story, but is he really the greater evil? I feel that Brian would have appreciated this rambling.
All the pictures used in this blog are for review purposes. They are the property of:
Well, it finally happened. Carl is dead. Gavin is dead. Henry is a killer. Much like the show, we have lost some people, but we continue on. Happy belated birthdays to both Brian and Bob. If you are interested in joining the group, leave Kent a message/comment, or email me at firstname.lastname@example.org
With that being said, as always, all comments in BOLD are written by me. Some are serious, most are silly. Please enjoy and share this with friends. Go ahead, I dare you.
Let’s start off with sheer speculation. We have officially lost one of the original 5, and are down to the original 4 with Rick, Carol, Daryl, and Morgan. Assuming another one of these 4 dies before the show concludes, who do you have dying next?
Bob: Daryl. I don’t have an explanation…. (If the ratings continue to plummet, Daryl’s death could put the nail in the coffin of contract renewal negotiations. I think this show can go 12 seasons, but the more I talk to people, the more I start to wonder if the whispers are true.)
Bitty: Carol (Booooo Bitty, boooo. She probably is. This show clearly doesn’t like people with a C A R or L in their name. Think about that!)
Kristi: Assuming one of the 4 leaves, I would have to go with Darryl. I don’t think the show could go on without Rick and Michonne. Of course, I kinda felt that way with Carl too so I’m probably wrong. (Michonne would be a huge loss. He comic counterpart (Andrea) got killed in the fall. I don’t think that will happen on the show though. Too important of a demographic.)
Chris: Morgan. Rick isn’t going to die, and I can’t see Michonne or Daryl dying anytime soon. Morgan is, to me, one of the most interesting characters on the show, but he’ll be the next of the originals to go. (Finally, somebody agrees with me. Morgan will be involved with Fear The Walking Dead this season and as great as Lennie James is, I could see him landing some great film roles as lead. Plus Snatch was a fantastic film.)
Kent: I think I could have realistically said anybody from the first 3 seasons, and that would have included Michonne and Maggie, but I don’t think anybody would have picked them anyway. Morgan is my answer because he’s the only black guy and TWD hasn’t killed any big name black guys off in a while.Rick is the only one that I am absolutely saying no to.
Gavin also died this episode, and as we know, he is one of Negan’s top assistants. The show seemed to try to show some duality in death between Gavin and Carl. Would you have held off on Gavin’s death for a different episode because it was getting overshadowed by Carl’s demise, or was it needed to drive home TWD’s point?
Bob: I think TWD was trying to maybe balance the pain of Carl’s death that some KBalls out there couldn’t handle. It didn’t work. (Owww, my pride. It didn’t work is right.)
Bitty: TWD def looked to find a parallel but I would’ve rather had the focus on Carl. He deserved it. (Agreed. This should have been all about Carl.)
Kristi: I like that he was taken out. And by a child! I think that was a power play. (That was a power play. Good to see Henry getting some shine!)
Chris: I don’t think it was needed to drive home a point, but it was needed to break up with the story a little bit. The show has been accused in the past of dragging on. If they had devoted a full episode just to Carl, they would have had to cram the Kingdom scenes into another episode. Plus Ezekiel was in immediate danger, so they had to resolve it. (Shit, I can’t remotely argue with that reasoning. You’re right, the show gets accused of many things by many loud, obnoxious people, myself included. It’s at a point where they can’t appease everybody, and the Kingdom stuff was mostly well done, so it’s really hard to fault them.)
Kent: I would have held off on Gavin’s death. I get what they were trying to accomplish, and I liked most of the Kingdom stuff this week. I would have rather had them take Gavin hostage, but at least it was Henry getting vengeance for his brother. I can’t be mad at that. Still, Gavin deserved to on Talking Dead damnit!!!
Were you satisfied with the explanation of the futuristic visions with “Old Man Rick” that the show provided?
Bob: ahhh. I was befuddled when I saw Negan. I still am. (I think that is going to be a scene that people forget even happened in 2 years from now.)
Bitty: Yes!!! I loved that they wrapped this up. Made sense to me. Makes me wonder if the “picnic table” scene was another vision of a character who will pass or who has passed. (I had forgotten about the picnic table scene, still missing Abe though. Now that they have revealed that these scenes are “visions” will we ever get another one? I’m going to say no.)
Kristi: I was a little confused by it when Negan showed up. I did feel good about the explanation at first but the Negan thing threw me. Like, are they all just going to be BFF’s in the future? (Spoiler alert: no, not really, but with Carl’s death, it’s possible. You and I will chat and I will explain how Carl’s death leaves open this possibility.)
Chris: Sure, but why is he the only one who looks 10 years older??? (Thank you!!! Eugene looks normal. Negan looked like he may have aged slightly. Rick looks rough. It’s weird.)
Kent: Here’s my problem, and it’s minor perhaps, but I need to bitch about it. Rick has a cane in these visions. Do you know why he has a cane? I’m looking at the contributors and speculating that maybe one of you may know why. In the comic, toward the end of this great war, Rick suffers an injury, and it seems likely that it may occur, or so I thought. I don’t think Rick is going to suffer the injury or else it means that Carl is Miss fucking Clio! They have to be aware of that problem. It was fine when those readers recognized the time lapse and the cane. Making it into Carl’s vision though, it wouldn’t make sense for the injury to occur.
If Henry hadn’t killed Gavin, are you 100% positive that Morgan was going to kill Gavin?
Bob: Yes. If it was Rick, I feel like there would have been that 11th hr moment and he pulls back. Morgan is committed. Morgan is mentally Ill. (I would ask, are most people mentally ill, given what they have seen and done to still be alive in that world? I’m already a nut job. If I had to do all of that stuff and survived, I would be clinically insane I would speculate. Yes, that 11th hour BS would have happened.)
Bitty: I don’t think he would’ve killed him. (I agree with you. I kept saying to myself that Morgan isn’t going to do it because of a few things, but how he was portrayed earlier in the season, that told me no. I have more reasoning in my answer.)
Kristi: I was pretty sure he would have killed him but I feel like it would have left a pretty bad feeling in him. I think he would have regretted it and would have given him some negative Morgan feelings. We don’t need that. (Morgan doesn’t need anymore on his conscience at the moment. This is actually another reason why I am saying No to this question. Had he done it, I don’t know how Lennie portrays Morgan’s descent further into madness.)
Chris: I think he would have killed him. While Ezekiel does seem to be able to get through to Morgan, he seems to have gone over the edge. I mean, he did just gut someone right before that. (I swear they went to that extreme level of the gutting to make people feel that Morgan was going to do it. It definitely was smart to work people’s emotions with that.)
Kent: This season of TWD, whenever you think you can say “This isn’t going to happen” and you feel 100% sure it will, some weird random nonsense happens. This season has been marred with that, and really, this was no different. Ezekiel, nor Carol, was going to get through to Morgan on this one. They should have kept him for leverage, obviously. So when I knew that Morgan wasn’t going to be stopped by reason, I had to assume he wasn’t going to get this kill. He deserves to get the kill on Jared, the asshole with the long hair.
How do you prefer your Morgan: A) level headed down to Earth Morgan B) Crazy Morgan. Please choose A or B, there are no other options. This is a simple one or the other question.
Bob: B. An A Morgan is too altruistic for this time. B is necessary to live. I want him on my side because he will surely die but he will take down a large number of enemies before doing so. (Is this the first time we have seen altruistic used on this blog? I think so. Yes, Morgan is that guy you want on your side, in some ways better than Rick. Rick’s actions have led to many deaths of people on his team. Morgan, not so much.)
Bitty: B (Could you try to shorten your responses in the future, please?)
Kristi: This is hard. I have to go with level-headed Morgan. He seems more effective to the group when he is sane but I really dug pulling the guts out Morgan. It pleased me to see the crazy. (Yes, watching the guts being pulled out was Nicotero having some fun. I liked the scene because it felt like horror. We don’t always get that horror vibe in this show.)
Chris: Level-headed Morgan. The group needs a level-headed person. (It has Tobin. What more do you need? Haha. There are not many level headed people. The black chick at The Kingdom, I can’t think of her name, but she is. I love her!)
Kent: B, did you honestly think I would choose A? Crazy Morgan gives us great scenes. That was easy like a Sunday morning.
Will Rick embrace Siddiq this season or will they keep their distance?
Bob: Second to last episode they will bond and the last episode will confirm it. (I think it will happen towards the end of the season. My answer will echo a lot of what you said here.)
Bitty: I think Maggie will embrace him more than Rick. He will stay at the Hilltop. (I think another girl will embrace him even more than Maggie! Awwwww shit, I just gave you a cliffhanger.)
Kristi: Yes, I think he will take him in as an Ally this season. (It feels inevitable, or else it’s almost a slap in the face to the memory of his son.)
Chris: I think he may be too preoccupied with ending the war this season. I do think Siddiq will prove to be a valuable ally. (I think Rick won’t be so much focused on allying with Siddiq, but Siddiq will get the opportunity to prove his value.)
Kent: Will he has medical training. Rick should do everything he can to make this man happy. Siddiq will have to have somebody to work with though that has some medical background. Who could it be? I would put $20 down on a bet right saying that Siddiq saves Rick in one of those convenient moments that TWD is notorious for. Possibly before Rick suffers that injury that can’t happen now.
Should Rick have tried to get Carl to Hilltop?
Bob: No. Which means in TWD language, yes. (You got me, I just laughed with a mouthful of food and almost choked. Kudos!)
Bitty: No. It wouldn’t have made a difference. (You’re right, with Dr. Carson missing, there was no way to try to combat this. The damage was done.)
Kristi: It wouldn’t have made a difference. I think it ended well with Carl. That would have made for more travel time and less quality time. (Yes, we need more emotional sappy scenes. This a hallmark of TWD.)
Chris: No. It would have put everyone in danger, plus he wouldn’t have made it. (Your answer is probably closest to my thoughts. This reminded me of them trying to get Maggie to the Hilltop. One Ginger and one Korean later, it turned out to be a poor decision.)
Kent: Hell no. This was what they wanted to do the visions reveal. Plus, he simply wasn’t going to recover, he was in pain. This was the most humane way to handle it.
We only saw a few people get to say goodbye to Carl (Rick, Michonne, Daryl, Judith, and Siddiq I believe). Pick one other character living or dead that you would have liked to say goodbye to Carl.
Bob: Enid, for the romantic aspect of course. (Go on. Yeah, good choice. We should totally post that on Twitter and then go get our hair done together.)
Bitty: I kinda wish Negan had seen him die. (I had it down to Negan or another person. I had Negan for the comic book’s reasons. I think it could have made the dichotomy between Rick and Negan just a bit different.)
Kristi: A flashback to his Mom would have been interesting. (I was hoping that somebody would pick Lori. I was also hoping that somebody would say Sophia as well. Will Rick start seeing Carl all in white is the big question.)
Chris: I will pick Negan, just for how funny the conversation would be! (This response may or may not contain spoilers. In the comics, when the war is over, Negan is held prisoner. Let’s not forget, they showed us that prison cell for a reason, so most of you had safely assumed that. One of the absolute best things in the comic was after the war, Carl would come and visit Negan and they had these cool conversations. This is a reason I am so pissed off about killing Carl off. So that’s part of why Negan was my runner-up.)
Kent: This one is possibly more of a sentimental shout out, but Herschel is my choice. Herschel and Carl had some very cool scenes together. I would have loved to hear Herschel’s sage words in Carl’s final minutes. Herschel will always be the grandfather figure of the group, to me at least.
Which group will have the bigger impact the rest of season 8: Oceanside or the Scavengers (Jadis’ group)?
now change changes to Jadis’s (THAT right there is how you get a gold star post Olympics.)
Bitty: My answer is Oceanside. Kinda because I know how much Kent loves Oceanside. (This fucking girl. “Kinda”. Listen Bitty, that was 100% your reasoning, and I get it. Rest assured, I’ll be miserable again this season as soon as I see that terrible place again.)
Kristi: Oceanside, simply because I dislike the Scavengers greatly.. (You and I are similar in this, only exactly the opposite.)
Chris: Oceanside. I think the Scavengers have officially pissed Negan off. That doesn’t usually work out well. (I am curious to see how that unfolds between Negan and The Scavengers. I am wondering if Negan really wants to start a war with them as well at the moment. He may.)
Kent: Scavengers. If you expected a different response, then this is probably your first time reading this blog. As Chris mentioned, the Scavengers and Negan dynamic is pretty fascinating.
How did you feel about Negan being in one of those futuristic visions, picking tomatoes? Was it for shock value or foreshadowing?
Bob: Shock value. This was an insane future. (Right? You would think he would be a cucumber guy from hanging out with Eugene so much.)
Bitty: It was uncomfortable. Like silence of the lambs uncomfortable. (You don’t do horror well. I have some stuff here that would you feel very comfortable. Today is opposite day.)
Kristi: I enjoyed it. I can see them getting along in the future. Like, keep him captive and eventually let them all see the way of Carl. Can’t they all just along? (If only they had spent 3 more minutes on Negan’s story when him and Gabriel were talking and cut out some unnecessary gun fight, I think that would have really supported your thoughts here.)
Chris: I almost think it was a wink and nod to the comics. It was a little weird to see him given everything he’s done. (Absolutely a wink and a nod. No doubt. Robert Kirkman definitely patted himself on the back after that one.)
Kent: I really hate tomatoes. Just pick another thing. Pick rhubarb. It doesn’t matter. Still, I loved this scene and it proved that Carl knew Negan better than anybody else.
Do you think Gavin actually liked Ezekiel and his personality or did he only like Ezekiel because most of the time, they had no issues with deliveries?
Bob: The latter. Plus that’s just Gavin’s way of speaking.
Bitty: I think Gavin liked the fact that Ezekiel never gave him issue making him look good in front of Negan.
Chris: I think Gavin actually liked Ezekiel. Gavin wasn’t as bad as the rest of the generals. I don’t think Gavin enjoyed killing.
Kent: Yeah, I am agreeing with Chris on this one Gavin strikes me as a guy who felt lucky to find a group like the Saviors that he could thrive in and took his job and his role to heart. He was always sick of Jared’s shit. He definitely felt bad about Benjamin’s death. Compared to Negan, Simon, or Arat, I think Gavin was a normal guy in an unusual situation.
Bitty: Who’s the future now? Judith?? Shake my head. (Give her to Carol and in 5 years, watch out!)
Chris: It’s going to be interesting to see where the show goes without Carl. He is a very important character in the next arc in the comics. I’m also interested in what’s going to happen with Oceanside.
Kent: We’ve had some people leave this group, which is sad. I hope that we can recruit others. It is an indication of interest in this show. The ratings show it, this blog shows it. I haven’t lost faith in this show, but I think we are officially on the downturn of this franchise. I hope this half-season renews my zest for the show. I’ll keep watching it even if it becomes a soul-crushing endeavor, but I would prefer to have a good time with it.
All the pictures used in this blog are for review purposes. They are the property of:
Let’s kick off the second half of this lovely 8th season with this blog. When we last talked, I was in a good mood. I haven’t been in a good one since that 7th episode. SO let’s do this!! Always feel free to leave your own thoughts in the comments section. All messages in bold are written by Kent, and I know damn well that some of you just come to read my responses to you.
Let’s start off with the obvious topic. What are your thoughts on Enid killing Natania and what repercussions will come from this, in your opinion? Speculate away. Gold stars will be awarded for funny responses.
Bob: Oceanside will now side with the Alexandrians. Natania was the only person holding them all back. Nantania’s non-child may have some trust issues with Enid, but… maybe Enid dies as a price to be paid…? (I don’t know if a price has to be paid. I question how many people fully backed Natania. I am curious. But hey, let’s just kill off all of the young people, why not, right? In theory, Enid should be killed.)
Brian: another Ricktard move. Now Oceanside will join forces with negan and rule the world. And Enid will be given to negan as a sex slave. (Sex slave? Is Enid of legal age? Okay, she is 18, so this comment gets a gold star!! Oceanside is so going to start a social media movement.)
Raylene: Well thankfully Natania is dead she wasn’t helping Oceanside they unfortunately needed to make some progress and would have been discovered eventually. Enid will be killed by the followers of Natania. (As I said, if Carl’s dead, Enid serves no purpose sadly.)
Kent: If Carl is dead, I can see Enid also getting killed as a penalty. Her character hasn’t served much of a reason, only as a potential love interest for Carl. With that being said, it never made sense because one of the big reasons that the group has issues with the next big bad group is due to Carl playing the white knight for the leader’s daughter. The hope I had was that Oceanside was going to turn into the big bad group, but nah, fuck that. I say that they may as well kill her and we find Heath’s dead body nearby.
Did you feel that this was really the appropriate time for Aaron to have Enid practicing her driving skills?
Bob: I mean, really, when is a good time in a word like this? I mean, whew, Enid is over 16 so we’re not breaking that law. (It’s important not to break the law in the ZA. I would think that aside from learning to shoot, kids should be getting driving lessons in these communities. It’s a very needed skill. How funny would it be to see a kid driving and Officer Friendly pulling them over?)
Brian: my first thought was who cares….. but upon reflection, I believe that it’s a skill that must be learned so why not now. (It really is a needed skill to survive, in my opinion.)
Raylene: Perhaps Aaron’s exhaustion finally caught up with him and he physically couldn’t drive anymore. (He needs a Stu Redman from Stewarts. For those unfamiliar, Stewarts is a local gas station with food and lots of ice cream and they have their own cans of energy drink. We call them Stu Redmans, in honor of Stu from The Stand because his real name is Stewart, played by the great Gary Sinise. What the fuck were we talking about again?)
Kent: This baffled me in the moment, and actually annoys me even more in hindsight. Even if she has to run, she clearly has a better chance of escaping on foot as she is nimble and great at hiding, whereas her trying to escape via car would potentially be a death sentence, that she may be facing in February.
Ezekiel appears to be in quite the predicament. Carol and Morgan are lurking. Will he be saved in time, and if so, by whom?
Bob: I think he will be saved only to have been mortally wounded. Both Carol and Morgan, like Daryl’s’ garbage truck kind of timing. (We really need a term for TWD Timing. Let’s work on a term. That may be a question for this coming week’s blog.)
Brian: He will be saved on another last minute totally illogical event and a Morgan king Carol love triangle will develop with a bitter Daryl killing Morgan on hopes to hold on to his trailer park sweetie..(Hahaha, another vote of confidence for TWD timing!)
Kristi: He will be saved. I see Morgan saving him this time since Carol was his hero last time. (Either way, can they play “I Need a Hero” when it happens? I don’t ask for much.)
Raylene: First of all Ezekiel put himself in that predicament when he chained himself in with them. I can see him being the other big death. (Ezekiel feels similar to Morgan to me. He is so much cooler on TV so his character may have greater longevity in the show. Of course Carl was way cooler in the show and……well there went my happiness.)
Kent: Well, there is no need for another huge death for a few episodes, especially somebody as beloved as Ezekiel. With that being said, maybe it happens. TWD has a penchant for doing huge deaths one right after the other. Think about this. There’s Dale & Shane, T Dog & Lori, Andrea & Merle, Herschel & Governor, Lizzie & Mika, Beth & Tyreese, Deanna/Jessie/Sam/Ron, and Abe & Glenn. Yeah, there is quite the history there. Yikes, I am now convinced that somebody else dies in episode 9. I can see both Carol and Morgan do work and set him free. I thought the dude who portrays Gavin has done an excellent job in his role and really wish to commend it. He nails it in every scene.
Ezekiel seemed to be able to move pretty good tonight. Do you ever wonder how these people heal so fastly despite the lack of doctors and good first aid and whatnot?
Bob: Actually, I really think that you don’t have time to pity yourself.
People know they have to cope and move on pain or not. It’s a survival mode, not the comfy lifestyle we live here. (Huh, a MR T reference. That’s a gold star. If you ever want to see something amazing, try to find MR. T’s WWE Hall of Fame speech. It is one of the best things I have seen this decade.)
Brian: he has been sitting on his ass reflecting on the error of his ways and his body is rested. Or tiger blood!! (Yeah, of course it’s Tiger Blood. He knows what he’s doing.)
Kristi: I mean, he has done nothing but rested since he was injured so I think that has helped the healing process. Also, although he knows he is not a King, he still cares for his people so he may be oblivious to the pain. (I really wish I knew the time frame. That is why it is tough to call bullshit on anything not involving ambulances or people falling from dumpsters.)
Raylene: Perhaps the adrenaline flowing helped him move quickly and when he can relax some his injuries will catch up to him. (Maybe he had one of those adrenaline shots like in Pulp Fiction. Hopefully he had a little black medical book with a felt pen.)
Kent: I know that it makes for better TV to have your stars heal faster so that they aren’t on the sidelines, but it feels beyond unrealistic time after time after time. Rick last sold an injury in season 4. Herschel had to see the amputation and Carl and Governor had to sell the missing eye. I get the concept of adrenaline, especially in life or death situations, but this happens too often for people who are not eating all that great I can’t imagine. The body can only do so much.
Why did Maggie choose to kill Dean instead of somebody like Jared or even Gregory?
Bob: He was the biggest guy. You always punch the biggest guy in the face to prove a point. Maybe he looked like Simon to her. (Yeah, this is why I don’t want to go to midget prison. I’d be getting punched all the time.)
Brian: Maggie wanted to show Jesus that she has his back. Dean was mean to Jesus. So she picked him. I think the widow knows that she needs Jesus to help control the rest. (In the words of Jesus, the bowled in Big Lebowski, “Nobody fucks with the Jesus” so you have a point. He’s not a good leader, but you want him on your side.)
Kristi: I don’t think it was a long thought process. He was an ass and she was over it. Pissing off an angry pregnant woman with a gun is never a good idea. (Really, what rational prisoner pisses off a pregnant widow with a gun? Exactly.)
Raylene: Maybe because she was there when Dean attacked Jesus so she saw him being a threat. (It’s a solid move to keep Jesus on your side, no doubt.)
Kent: No F’n clue. I would have probably shot Gregory first, if I was Maggie. He may not be as much of a threat physically, but he is a smart and worthy adversary. Jared is just a dick who should have gotten got a long time ago, probably by Richard last year. I miss Richard. I was watching the marathon on Sunday at various times, and by and large, I liked his character, despite his mistakes.
Will Maggie ever use any of her POW’s as trade bait, or is this where she makes a statement that Maggie is not to be trifled with via some executions?
Bob: No trifling! She isn’t trading anything unless it is for a leader OR it will be a dumb trade for an inconsequential character in an attempt to show some moral or compassionate move. (While I agree with your early sentiment, I fear it is the latter that will happen….sigh. We will call that character Tara or Enid.)
Brian: we saw it already. She is cracking and will crumble before she has to execute any more innocent people. I see Jesus saving the pows cause he realizes how wrong the Ricktards are. (I do believe that Maggie is cracking. I am still not of the belief that she is some good leader because her husband died and she’s pregnant.)
Kristi: I don’t see a trade ever happening. Negan just doesn’t care enough to have that be something that would go down. She’s just going to take them out as she goes. Do not trifle with Maggie. (Honestly, I think Negan recognizes the value of having people following his cause and he would consider some trade, especially during ALL OUT WAR!!!)
Raylene: I think this is her breaking standpoint she’s going to keep killing until they back down (I could see that. She is pregnant and slightly moody.)
Kent: I’m not sure if she needs to use them as trade bait at this point. We know via preview that the group plans on heading to Hilltop to make a stand. I would possibly use it as trade bait to get Dr. Carson back if he was still screwed, but that’s about it. There is officially no reason to keep them alive as they are eating needed resources.
Okay, I saved 3 spots for the big one. First off, in the season premiere, we saw visions of Old Man Rick. In those visions, we saw Michonne, Carl, and Judith who had grown up by several years at that point. I know you all want to put your own spin on it, so I expect you to. With that being said, I see it as 3 possibilities. The first being that Rick has lost his mind, which would go along with the helicopter possibly. We know how Rick reacts to death in the family. The second is that those scenes were just a dream, sorta like the ones of Glenn and Abe and the group having dinner around the table in the season 7 premiere. The final possibility is that TWD is pulling a Glenn and Carl is somehow going to make it out of this situation alive in some ridiculous fashion and the visions were, in fact, true. What do you think?
Bob: Old man Rick was a dream-like sequence. It is from the mind of Rick in things he hopes for as the future. He is hoping for the best possible outcome. (That would make some sense. Rick is a believer in making things work. Hell, he tried to make it work with the Governor.)
Brian: The blue meth finally gets to Rick and he realizes that he is the cause for all the pain in his family’s life and that starts his mental breakdown. Or does the truth finally get realized and Rick is a mental patient and is making it all up. (If it’s the latter, I am going to sit back and laugh at the outrage.)
Raylene: I am thinking that everyone is dead Michonne, Carl, and Judith. Rick is the only survivor. (You believe the show would be insane enough to kill the second most important after the war, a child, and a bad ass leading black lady. Nice.)
Kent: I admit it, I am deeply saddened by this. This is probably one of the 3 or 4 saddest things that I have seen on a fictionalized show. It’s there with Opie’s death in Sons, Phil Hartman’s passing on Newsradio, and Taker losing his streak at Wrestlemania XXX. With that being said, I am fairly certain that this is it. The opening scenes in this episode, and even the season, have all geared up to this moment in a brilliant manner. Well, brilliant if you can find brilliance in your favorite character’s death. I think that Rick is slipping back into season 3 mode. When they did those flashbacks, we cut back to Rick’s red teary eyes. That was a big clue. Carl’s reaction when he helped Siddiq was also there. Then the speech to Negan, it was all there. I can’t rationalize a bullshit Glenn situation, but I wish I could. Old Man Rick sequences was a way to fuck with the comic fans, and I told you all that it was not a reference to the time skip. I suggested that it may be the series finale. So I was half right. That’s worth something…..right?
If Carl is in fact dying, would Rick bury the hat with him or would he keep it to help memorialize Carl?
Bob: The hat would best be suited for a headstone or wooden cross on Carl’s grave. Or Rick might have to pull a Governor and Zombie Carl can still have his hat. (I do love the idea of it being used on a cross for Carl. I think that would be a nice touch.)
Brian: Rick buries arl and leaves hat as marker… however, the last thing Rick sees before he dies is Negan wearing the hat as Lucille delivers her justice. (That got dark really fast. It would be a shocker…..no not that kind of shocker.)
Kristi: He will keep the hat. Maybe hang it in Judith’s room. (Does Judith have a room anymore?)
Raylene: I think he’ll pass it on to Judith in time (A vote for passing down something that has not been very lucky. How many months until Judith gets shot if that’s the case?)
Kent: I hope that Rick keeps it to give it to Judith later on, or maybe Michonne wears it in honor or Carl. I am going to say that it’s kept, but I can really see it go either way.
Who do you think is going to take this harder: Rick or Michonne?
Bob: Rick. Period. He is Carl’s father and out of sheer respect of that Michonne has to set aside her grief for his. (Rick has never had more motivation than he will after this, and it is going to hit him very hard. I agree.)
Brian: Michonne I think cause she thought of him as a son. (Michonne has lost family too and her and Carl have a unique bond. Beyond Andrea, Carl has been the closest thing to Michonne withough physicall being in Michonne. I felt you would enjoy that one.)
Kristi: Rick. Although Michonne seems to be having a hard time lately. It will hit her hard also but Rick is going to be a hot mess. It will definitely be the cause of a breakdown. (Hot mess!!! Now that is an accurate term for what I imagine Rick will be for awhile.)
Raylene: Both will take it hard Rick will just go insane and Michonne may go back to her loaner state with Walkers attached to her (If Michonne can go back to that state of mind and being a non lovey dovery bad ass, that wouldn’t be the worst thing ever, would it?)
Kent: If what I have already said is accurate in that Rick is losing his shit again, that’s tough to top. How would you top that? Michonne going rogue for a bit, as she does in the comic. Of course, she’s not in a relationship with Rick in the comic, so this would be quite different, but why stop now? We just killed the main fucking future star of this fucking show for no damn good reason. Fuckin pricks! (Will you settle down?)
Bonus Double Deuce
Is everybody finally happy that Daryl got his vest back?
Bob: It was anticlimactic, but yes. (But more importantly, did you cry when it happened? I did.)
Brian: Not really I can only hope he gets careless and Negan finally puts him out of his misery. ( I would be soooo happy if that happened.)
Kristi: I mean, it’s a vest. Not really important at this point in the game. (But, but, but, it’s what Daryl stands for and represents….I can’t. Seriously some people care though.)
Raylene: Who gives a shit about Daryl anymore (Old white women.)
Kent: Yeah. You wanna know why? Because I wanna see that useless fuck get killed in the next episode. Tara is still queen of my anger, but Daryl is now her king. Daryl fucked everything up and I hold him accountable for Carl’s death. If Daryl stopped being so damn selfish, maybe the plan is executed faster. Maybe if he doesn’t wrestle with Rick and make shit explode, maybe they are done significantly earlier and Carl doesn’t go out wandering doing Carl things. Really Daryl, that was your BIG concern was getting your fucking vest back? Your whole colony just went up in flames, but let’s rip the vest off of the guy that just saved your bitch ass. He is such a useless character now. I don’t know the exact point where he went wrong, but I am fairly sure Beth was involved. Death to super Daryl!!!! I am not apologetic for my hate towards his character. His careless antics have killed or led to far too many deaths in this show, yet so many people keep acting like he’s a good guy. No! At least Negan tries to keep his people safe, but he’s supposed to be the bad guy? Are you fucking kidding me? No, Daryl is worse than Negan. I sentence Daryl to life in the cell with Easy Street on repeat. End rant…for now. (Sooooo angry dude. Relax.)
In the season premiere, we hear Rick say: “My mercy prevails over my wrath.” I think that Siddiq also says this to Carl. There is a line like this in the Koran. It’s a loaded quote, obviously, or else they wouldn’t repeat it and name an episode in reference to it. What does it mean for the show’s purposes?
Bob: Wrath is a form of judgement. So if we break it down and reword it to “My mercy prevails over my judgment” what do we have? We have a simple play on words, but it is not deceiving or tricky in any way. If Mercy is the primary thought and wrath/judgement is secondary, wrath is not eliminated from an act of mercy. This means to me, that whomever says this, believes they are being fair and merciful but will take an act of wrath to fulfill that mercy. (I don’t have anything to add to this other than I fully expected a response of this nature and you did not let me down. Good answer!)
Brian: Negan has shown Rick mercy a bunch. Rick and his family have not been harmed directly by Negan. Ricks rath toward Negan has caused all his family’s pain. Rick is a horrible leader and an even worse father. (You’re not wrong. Negan did return Carl totally unscathed. People forget hopw many times Negan could have killed Carl, but he didn’t.)
Raylene: Rick is going to blame Daryl and Tara for Carl death bite (Oh, that would give me such a clue!)
Kent: There’s a lot going on with this particular quote. Something we never really touched on in regards to the season premiere was how Carl’s actions mirrored Rick’s in the very first episode. That’s a thing and it’s on the internet, so read up on it if this is news to you. As for the quote, it holds many layers. I was too stupid to notice when Siddiq had said them that it was the exact same phrase. It’s one last way to tie Negan to Carl. Those words are very much about Negan. Negan will not be killed by Rick at the end of the war….at least I don’t think he will. What really grinds my gears is that the BEST part of the comics for me after All Out War was the relationship that Carl and Negan end up developing. I have been alluding to those scenes over the years in this blog, and it seems like those hopes are dashed, so I don’t feel like I gotta say spoiler. Now I’m pissed again. (Somebody get this man a drink!)
In the comics, Carl actually really grows into quite a big character, and a lot of what I assumed would be in season 9 and 10 revolved around Carl. The show has stuck relatively close to the comic in a general sense 75-80% of the time. Does this mark a potential huge shift away from the comics where it truly becomes it’s own entity, or do you think this is another blip on the radar in the same way that Daryl and Merle weren’t in the comics, or that Carol had died in the prison, but is still alive on the show?
Bob: I think the show is doing what it is always doing. It wanted to shock people like you, Kent. To me, a non-comic reader, this was another main character dying. It definitely meant more for you because you had an expectation. I didn’t have that. (That is 100% the truth.)
Brian: The producers at making a huge mistake by making the show all about Rick. I think a lot of shows make this mistake. In a za people will die off people will rise to power and fall off. This show has gone long enough about Rick. It’s time we follow a different character’s rise to power or end the show. (This also true. Would Game of Thrones be any fun if the same person was in control the whole series? Hell no. People are going to rise and fall. We need Clay Morrow taking over!
Raylene: With this fucking show now who knows. They have fucked things up royally. (Like a Royale with cheese? Is your anger directed towards the metric system?)
Kent: This seems as good of a time as any to really stray away from the comics. The whole thing with the next big bad group has already lost it’s luster due to this Carl shenanigans. That whole story arc is Carl’s becoming a man story and it’s just gone. Poof! I don’t really see the sense in it anymore. I’d rather skip it entirely because then I don’t have to get sad over another scene later on. (I bet that scene involves Lucielle.)
Finally, give me your fondest Carl memory.
Bob: Carl not shooting his potential brother-in-law from the lady who had two kids and he was abusive to her. The older son. That whole interaction, but mostly his response – Carl not ratting him out. (Ohhhh, that is a good one.)
Brian: Carl was the only Ricktard that Negan respected and talked to. Hopefully, he can be the first to no die. Maybe the helicopter has antidote. (Arl was also the first Funko I ever had hand decorated by you sir.)
Kristi: When he put Shane out. That was my, “this kid’s a badass moment”! (Yeah, it was super pivotal. Most people point to him taking out Lori, but this was more pivotal, no doubt.)
Raylene: The first three seasons Carl was quite annoying but once they had to flee the prison and were alone in the house he really came into his own. I honestly thought they were grooming him to take over the show. My favorite memory was when we first saw him drive it made me laugh. (Carl driving was a true peice of art. I wish we could have seen some outtakes of that day.)
Kent: I have so many of them. I think one that really helped cement his awesomeness in my eyes was how he talked to Rick in episode 9 of season 4 after everybody had scattered from the Prison and Rick had been shot. Carl had this breakout episode and he has continued shining from that point on. This episode, I loved his talk with Negan, and I thought that maybe, just maybe this would tie into what was to come after the war. I also loved how Carl simply manned up in the lineup scene and how he tried to take out Sanctuary by himself. All great stuff. He has pretty much had a Maximus story though. He went through so much shit, just like Maximus. As sad as it was when he died in Gladiator, you were happy that he could finally be at rest. If I can take anything away from this, it’s that Carl can finally rest. He saw his new best friend get shot in the head by his father, had to put down the other man in his life in Shane, had to help deliver his sister and put his mom down, had to really run things when his dad lost his shit, saved Tyreese’s group, got shot by Otis and Ron, had no eye, was disfigured, had the holy hell scared out of him by Joe and the Claimers, The Termites, and Negan, he infiltrated The Sanctuary and got humiliated a bit by Negan, and still, throughout it all, he just tried doing the right thing and recruit for the future. I know that some of you haven’t been as high on Carl as I have, and to each their own, but this story has truly been remarkable, in my opinion.RIP Arl.
Final Thoughts – Did this episode make you look forward to the second half of this season, or did it turn you off? Also, please give any parting thoughts before we go on a 2 months break.
Bob: I’m ready for more… finally. This dragged on and on. This blog is the only things that kept me watching the show. (You and many others I do believe. AMC should start paying us for keeping their small show relevant!)
Brian: it really wasn’t all out war. All the Ricktards did was lose more people following Rick and pissed of Negan more and the Oceanside people. (But Aaron’s boyfriend died. That was sooooo important! Hah!)
Raylene: Nope it pissed me the fuck off and I am probably done with the show. After they killed Abe I wasn’t sure if I should continue on then this happened with Carl and it enraged me so fuck you Robert Kirkmen and Scott Gimple. (They thrive on your tears.)
Kent: No, I’m not looking forward to it. By February, I may feel differently. In this moment, no, I’m not looking forward to it. I know that may be a childish way of handling things, so be it. This season has had so many stupid scenes with wasting ammo, exploding shit, not following the plans, and getting vests back, really Carl was a pillar of hope. That was the greatest sin that you can commit in this show. I fear for all black males on the show. There is no way that Morgan, Gabe, and Ezekiel all survive the season. Finally, we lost one of the original 5. We are down to Rick, Carol, Daryl, and Morgan. This one stings wayyyy more than Glenn. To officially update my favorite characters, it looks something like this: 1. Carol 2. Eugene 3. Negan 4. Jerry 5. Simon 6. Gregory 7. Gavin 8. Gabe 9. Ezekiel 10. Dianne 137. Daryl 138. Tara. (It’s February…..no, still bummed out.)
Hey everybody, we are gearing up some big shocking midseason finale. I brought along some friends to answer my silly questions about the episode. Hopefully the midseason finale lives up to the hype. Always feel free to leave your own thoughts in the comments section. All messages in bold are written by Kent, and I know damn well that some of you just come to read my responses to you.
Eugene was clearly afraid to name Dwight to Negan toward the end of the episode. Do you think that Eugene is afraid of Dwight OR do you think Eugene feared that Negan may not take his side due to Dwight being there to refute the accusations?
Bob: Neither. I think Eugene thinks Dwight may be right and doesn’t know what the winning side will be… (Despite my long winded answer, this is surely part of it and Eugene will do Eugene 99% of the time. He is playing as well as he could have so for his survival.)
Brian: Eugene is nervous that Don Negan will react by putting both in custody and the loss of his freedom will crush him. (The whole hand kissing thing was surely a high point of the episode, at least for me. I think it was one of the most subtle scenes.)
Kristi: I think he is afraid of Negan. If he finds out he has known and kept it from him for so long, he will be done with him.(He most certainly is. I am watching the marathon now. And the 11th episode of last season was really good to see because I think it set the stage for Eugene’s actions this week.)
Chris: I think that despite his bravado, Eugene is still conflicted about what’s the right thing to do. He has had multiple opportunities to turn Dwight in, and Negan will believe him. (Do you think that it has gone from do whatever to stay alive mentality to Eugene actively seeking the morally right options, while still killing himself?)
Raylene: Eugene wanted to name him when they were alone it seemed perhaps when he looked at Dwight’s burnt face he felt sorry for him. (Yeah, that could play a role in it as well. Whatever EUgene doesn’t know about Dwight’s character, I think he has inferred the rest.)
Kent: I oftentimes have no issue giving you a confident and competent answer. This one, it’s incredibly tough, that’s why I led with it. It did feel like Eugene was set to rat out Dwight prior to everybody coming into the room. Eugene strikes me as a guy who adamantly hates conflict. In a closed off situation with little fear of repercussion, Eugene feels comfortable manipulating. Once he lost that comfort zone, he couldn’t risk it. It didn’t go as planned, and Eugene bailed. The fear of Negan’s response knowing that Dwight would have a rebuttal, not so good for Eugene. I will also add to my belief by bring up S7 Ep11, which featured Eugene’s first day at Sanctuary, the pickles and when Dwight manipulated Negan which led to the OG Dr. Carson getting tossed into the fire. I struggle with Eugene trusting Dwight.
It feels safe to assume that Rick would welcome Eugene back to the group and allow Dwight the opportunity to join the group. Who do you feel would be more welcome from the group as a whole: Eugene the traitor or Dwight the Savior?
Bob: Eugene. He is weak and that is understood but his brain in priceless. (Yeah, his brain is priceless. I think of human nature, and we too frequently presume somebody is guilty until proven innocent. This is not a new concept, but obviously has some recent examples. I wonder if that is amplified in the ZA or if people are more forgiving for the sake of hope.)
Brian: It doesn’t matter the Ricktards are a fractured group with the leader having no idea what his followers are doing. Eugene is viewed as a harmless entity who people want to love for his uniqueness. (You just described me.)
Kristi: I have to go with Dwight. Eugene should not be forgiven. (Yeah, I think the group would see Dwight as a major victory and possible turning point in the war.)
Chris: Eugene. I think they could accept that he did what he did out of fear. Dwight kind of killed a bunch of Alexandrians. (That is a fair point. Comparatively, I think Alexandrians have like a 5 to 1 kill ratio compared to the Saviors. Could they possibly rationalize that the enemy of their enemy is now their friend?)
Raylene: I would say Dwight too many will view Eugene as a traitor now. (Yeah, I am sure that a good chunk of the “good guys” know that they got info on where all of the lookouts and whatnot are. All it takes is a few whispers. I think he’s going to viewed as a hero to some.)
Kent: Dwight is my answer. Right now, he has to be more popular among the good guys unless only a handful of people are privy to the knowledge of what Dwight is doing.
Does Jadis find Rick to be a good subject for sculpting, or does she do it more as a mind game?
Bob: Neither, again. This is just there way of doing things. I am not sure Jadis truly knows how to play a head game. (While the show hasn’t given us any background on Jadis, we do know that she rose to power. Typically, you rise to power with brute strength or with outsmarting those who are in your way. If I had to take a guess, I would take her as the smart type and not the brute force.)
Brian: Jadis is smart and knows where her bread gets buttered. She wants Rick to keep thinking she’s crazy as that easily allows her to switch sides as her needs see fit. (Yeah, really she is among the smartest people in this whole show in my estimation. She has helped create a shorter language or use of it. She has negotiated with the 2 head honchos. She’s basically playing the game of thrones at the moment.)
Kristi: A mind game.
Chris: It’s a mind game. I think she is smarter than she lets on. (Wouldn’t you like to know what she did in life for work prior to the ZA? I bet she drank a lot of wine and had a job that annoyed her.)
Raylene: I think it’s part of the mind game but obviously she doesn’t realize he’s super cena rick.
Kent: Mindgame seems like the narrative that they wish to tell us. So I will lay out my crazy idea. Jadis was a person who worked in the art world, maybe had her own small gallery. I think that she loved wine. Has probably gone to nude beaches, one of those free spirits. For that reason, I am going to say that I think that she has thing for Rick, not necessarily romantic, but a fascination at the very least.
Dwight shot down Eugene’s music kite. What practical purpose did this serve for Dwight?
Bob: Eugene, about to make the big problem disappear that he has been charged with doing… Has nothing at that moment to stand on. He wouldn’t have much political capital to spend on Negan since he hasn’t solved the problem. (I like the bit about the political capital. I think that is a very good possibility. It’s better than any answer that I had.)
Brian: Dwight is weak. He knows Eugene is right and he’s jealous that Don Negan prefers Eugene to him. He shot down the kite to prove to Eugene that he will foil all his plans. (Is Dwight becoming the Fredo fo TWD? If not Fredo, is there a better character choice for Dwight?)
Kristi: He is working with Rick so he is just following the plan on taking Negan down. (Dwight is a soldier, and he is doing his best. As I have alluded to in the past, Eugene and Dwight become 2 of the more fascinating characters in the comics. Whether that applies to the show is up in the air. It is cool to see Dwight’s commitment.)
Chris: I think his role in the plan is to ensure the walkers do not leave. (There’s a part of me that feels that Dwight is following a plan that he feels may get him killed, and you get a lot of depressed feelings from Dwight. I felt that this was a perfect example of Dwight’s mindset of carrying out a mission, no matter the cost, which is to ensure the walkers don’t leave, as you said.)
Raylene: Dwight knew that this would draw the walkers away and enable Negan to go retaliate which would be more deaths. (In all fairness, both ways leads to more deaths. This is just what Dwight sees as his way out, in one aspect or another.)
Kent: Dwight is a bit of a self serving soldier in that he does want to “do the right thing” and probably help Rick’s plan come together, but I truly believe that Dwight at times strikes me as a Man on Fire to reference the great Denzel film. Okay, maybe not great because the kinetic style of filmography was shit, but still, a great story.
At the end of the day, do you think that Eugene fully believes in the concept that he is a Savior, and that he saves people, or does simply believe that he is “Negan” to stay alive?
Bob: He is a Negan to stay alive but plays a Savior to save people on TV. (This made me giggle.)
Brian: Eugene is a perfect example of the saviors way of thinking. Don Negan is providing protection and providing for his people he gives them the confidence to survive. Eugene want to see people live and he understands that Rick’s way of survival means killing innocent people that he feels cross him. The Saviors know each person has a purpose and are each needed for the whole to survive (I do believe that Eugene has bought into the Saviors way of thinking for the reasons that you suggest.)
Kristi: He is brainwashed in thinking Negan is a good guy that is helping. I think he believes the things they are doing is to help people. (Eugene is truly making out like a champ here. No where else would he be this well protected, which in turns gives him time to think on what to do next. In turn, he has tried to help people along the way.)
Chris: Self-preservation is eugenes #1 objective. (To go along with that, I have been trying to think of times where Eugene put himself in the path of any potential harm, and from what we have seen, you can count those times on one hand. The dude is smart.)
Raylene: I still am holding out hope that Eugene is just doing it to stay alive. (Well, he is one of the best survivalists in the show, so of course he is doing whatever to survive. He knows what he’s doing. It would be hilarious if he became the next antagonist on the show.)
Kent: I think he believes himself to be a savior, and has for quite some time, long before we even knew of the Saviors. He is selfish, BUT he has had good intentions to help by and large. He just doesn’t like to fight….or getting punched in the face by Abe.
Do you think that anybody originally objected to Rick’s plan when he laid it out, or did anybody secretly disagree? I’m referring to the the time frame of the season premiere when ALL OUT WAR started.
Bob: I think everyone agreed or they all came to an agreement. I am not 100% certain this was only Rick’s plan. (I don’t think it was all of his plans either. I would surmise that Carol came up with at least 30%, Maggie or Jesus some portion, maybe Rosita, Tobin definitely.)
Brian: there are more people that are disagreeing every day. Jesus and the hilltop are against him now. The kingdom is now defunct because of rick and now since rick was again being selfish the saviors are free to reign hell on the invaders. (That’s really the foolish part is how quick so many people failed to stick to the plan, which was very smart, minus the severe waste of ammo. They deserve to lose, yet they will win. It’s like watching 1980’s Hulk Hogan.)
Kristi: I think some disagreed but I think the majority wanted an end to Negan and the saviors so they went along with it. (I agree that although some may not have loved the plan, they agreed that it was a means to an end that shouldn’t result in many casualties for their side.)
Chris: I think everyone likely agreed. Though I’m sure some people did not share their opinions. (I feel that someone like Morgan or Daryl would have had their own ways of wanting to do it. They strike me as 2 of the big naysayers.)
Raylene: I think Daryl outright disagreed and Tara was more secret (Yeah, as I just said to Chris, I don’t think Daryl was mentally all in on this. Him, Tara, Morgan,possibly Michonne and Rosita all are solid possibilities. I’m actually most surprised that they didn’t demand immediate vengeance on the Scavengers.)
Kent: No chance. There are a lot of strong personalities, or very stubborn at least.Rosita, Carl, and Michonne all seem like they would want to take out The Scavengers based on The Scavengers sorta betraying them. Carl almost died, Michonne almost died, and Rosita was shot.. On top of that, you know that Daryl wanted to just do work due to his time on Easy Street.
If somebody from Rick’s group dies due to Daryl and Tara’s assault on Sanctuary, should Rick consider some form of punishment for them? If you say yes, what do you suggest?
Bob: Get in their face with an aggravated voice and point his finger at them. Like he always does. He will have to be speechless at first but then he will forgive them at some later episode where there is this special moment they are looking at each other OR the other person will die of convenience. Like the way everything else has gone in the show. (Hahahahaha, truer words haven’t been spoken in this blog in however many years that I have been doing it.)
Brian: rick is a horrible leader who is selfish and only is looking out for himself. His plan has already caused the deaths of numerous people but yet he walks freely. (Let’s take that to a whole other level. Rick has almost gotten his son killed numerous time. As much as I liked some of the other dead characters, none should be more important than Carl, especially Judith.)
Kristi: No. They did what they thought needed to be done. (Using that philosophy, I assume it’s ok for Negan and the Saviors to do what they do based on them doing what they thought needed to be done. If that’s the case, I can get behind that.)
Chris: Should he, yes. Will he? I doubt it. (Yeah, no chance in hell of him holding people accountable. He at least has a prison cell.)
Raylene: Yes they should be pitted to fight against each other like Merle and Daryl were (Sold! I say Rosita vs Tara and Michonne vs Daryl. Winners fight each other. Maybe they could make a deal with the Scavengers, like so many hours of modeling and then The Scavengers could hold the event there.)
Kent: I think that Rick should give them options, a few possible punishments. Give them the offer to move to another settlement. Maybe spend a month in that prison cell. One thing that most certainly would be happening if to put these people in the front for every upcoming fight. That will either kill them or they end up help win the fight.
A lot of people bad mouthed Rosita last week. Did she do the right thing this week?
Bob: Frankly, she didn’t “do” anything. She just saw what they were doing is dumb. (Didn’t she though? Didn’t she? She stepped up to Dary;s group of terrorists. That took guts.)
Brian: Yes Rosita is starting to see the errors of their ways the Rick way is only going to get her killed.
Kristi: Yes. I’m actually really starting to like her.
Chris: Yes. Going rogue just cause more problems. Every. Single. Time. (I will add a caveat to that. I still say that Merle did the right thing when he let Michonne go free and he tried taking out the Governor. He was one fluke away from succeeding. That fucking idiot stepped in front of Governor at the last second. So yes, technically it went sort of wrong, but he still took out like 10 people.)
Raylene: Unfortunately yes she did the right thing because the other idiots were just being idiots. (The smartest idiot in the room theory. I concur.)
Kent: Yes. This plan of Daryl’s vengeance tour was beyond foolish. Daryl and Tara deserve to get got.
What was your favorite Eugene one liner or moment from this week’s episode?
Bob: When he chickened out telling Negan the truth.
Brian: stuff that that strokes my rod.
Kristi: I liked how fearful he looked at the end. I’m just waiting for Negan to find his notebook and punish him.
Chris: I liked his reaction to when Dwight threatened him. He as clearly afraid but was oddly calm.
Raylene: When he finally flipped out on Gabe after Daryls smart move
Kent: The whole shaking Negan’s hand. I am still laughing when I see that scene, and I have rewatched it numerous times. I think everybody chose well. There were probably 8 or so one liners that I laughed at.
Bonus Double Deuce
In hindsight, Daryl and Tara’s plan didn’t work as well as they anticipated. Still, in the moment, if you saw an opportunity to end it, would you take it, or would you follow the plan? (An example of this going poorly was Daryl (yet again) telling Carl not to take out the Governor before he beheaded Herschel.)
Bob: Follow the plan, especially at the point they were at. (That last part can’t be emphasized enough in my opinion.)
Brian: Once again Darryl shows his cowardly side. He knows they can’t take the saviors in a fair fight so he uses techniques that Rick would do and tries to kill the saviors. And again he fails. That is why he will never be a leader (The longer the show goes, I have less and less faith in Daryl being a solid leader. A good #3 or so, but never the A number 1 Duke of NY shit.)
Kristi: I’m a by the book kind of person so I would have followed the plan. (I do like to improvise, but you make a plan for a reason, and if you go through the arduous take of making aforementioned plan, well then you should do your best to follow it.)
Chris: Follow the plan. They made a plan for a reason right? Didn’t he see what happened to his brother when he went off-plan? (Haha, well that goes to show you that I don’t read this beforehand. I just read it top to bottom. I am really happy that I mentioned Merle like 2 answers ago.)
Raylene: Follow the plan especially with Negan. He is a whole new kind of a beast (Negan is definitely better set up than anybody or thing else that they have come across. I would put Terminus at #2.)
Kent: I say that you take the opportunity to end it unless you know that it’s foolproof. I use Jaime Lannister going after Dany in the most recent season of GoT as my best recent time example in a fictional show.
What will/would it take for Daryl to stop being so headstrong and stubborn?
Bob: Him causing Carol’s death. (I would go so far as to add Carl, Judith, or Maggie to that list. Carol probably means the most to him though.)
Brian: Daryl needs to get hurt. A face scar would go along way to stopping his idiot behavior. (It would make him look more bad ass.)
Kristi: I don’t know that anything will change him. With all the crap he has been through, if he hasn’t changed yet, it’s not happening. (That is also entirely possible. The dude may just be “broken” to some extent.)
Chris: Someone really important dying (Michonne, Carol, Rick.) (Well, yeah I don’t know how I left Rick off my response to Bob. I am trying to think of how close Michonne and Daryl are. I am positive that I am forgetting some stuff, but I feel like they haven’t do much together, but I am probably wrong.)
Raylene: His actions causing Judith’s death (Yup, I said that in my Bob response as well. He has an attachment to that girl.)
Kent: Judith dying seems reasonable. A lot of you mentioned various names and I think all of them are quite important and play a n important role.)
Obviously Negan tells Eugene what he wants to hear. WIth that being said, do you think that Negan believes some of what he says to Eugene or is it all just a ploy?
Bob: Everything Negan says is crafted to manipulate. It is sheer manipulation, nothing legitimate. Even if Negan is saying something he means, he isn’t saying it because he is sharing a part of himself, it simply happens to coincide with what NEEDS to be said.
Brian: Don Negan showed again his leadership skills and makes another desperate person feel strong and confident. Negan needs Eugene and his skills to make the entire group stronger.
Kristi: I don’t think he trusts Eugene. He has a lot more street smarts and can read people well. I think it’s just part of his master plan.. whatever that may be.
Chris: Negan is manipulative. He know exactly how the to stroke Eugene’s ego.
Raylene: I believe Negan once he sees Eugene make the bullets will start to see his true usefulness.
Kent: As of right now, there is no right or wrong answer. I truly believe that Negan believes a lot of what he says to Eugene. I am not stupid enough to say that’ it’s not entirely manipulative. The thing is, Eugene is probably the smartest dude that Negan has and I truly believe that Negan believes that in order for The Saviors to remain a large, well running machine, Eugene is a great mind to have around. He is an idea man, and a science man. Negan can trust Eugene’s loyalty. I guess what I am saying is that I really don’t believe that it’s all bullshit at the moment.I get everybody’s perspective though. Let’s not forget, Eugene has been given so much praise, respect, and trust while at Sanctuary. The sort of stuff that only Abe and Rosita had given him until the truth was revealed.
Who’s gonna get got next week? Will the shocking moment be more than just a death?
Bob: Daryl is going to get got. (That would make it “epic”.)
Brian: we are gonna see Alexandria and the hilltop attacked the widow and others will once again be kneeling before lucille. Gabriel turns and eats the dr. Which causes Eugene to kill him. On a side note grace needs to be freed and brought back home. (Gracie deserves to be brought back to her people. Whether people like the Saviors or not, I still think that they would do their best to take care of her.)
Chris: The saviors are going to attack Alexandria, so it’s either Rosita, michonne or carl in my opinion. They are saying this will be a huge shock, so I think this time, Negan will in fact kill carl. (That’s one of 3 kills that would really ruin my day. Carl, Carol, and Eugene. I don’t want Morgon or Ezekiel to get it, but that would simply sting. Losing any of those 3 would really irk me.)
Raylene: Eugene had a lot of screen time this week so I see him getting killed (Boooooooo. Not happening. If it does, I riot.)
Kent: Gabe the walked will be unleashed. Gabriel will bite Tara. I think Gregory also gets got.
Brian: the Ricktards have kicked the hornets nest and will feel the rath of the saviors. It’s time for arl to his sister to be brought home to the saviors and raised by their true father.
Chris: I hope the second half of this season is a little more fast paced. All out war has not been what I had hoped so far. Plus I would like to see Negan more. Was he even in half the episodes?
Raylene: I hope when they return in February the episodes are better
Kent: I am really thrilled with how they have evolved Eugene’s character up to this point. Yes, it’s subtle and nothing compared to how we will view him by the season 8 finale, but still, they have done a stand up job. I know this show is hard to watch for the most seasoned viewers, and I get it. The best thing I can say is to enjoy these next 9 episodes. You may be happy when ALL OUT WAR ends, but I fear that there is some boring ass stuff coming up, like maybe worse than season 5 and 6.when they were going through the motions.
All the pictures used in this blog are for review purposes. They are the property of:
Anyway, thank you to Briana, Bob, Bitty, Brian, Chris, Raylene, and Eric for taking time out of their busy schedule to provide their valuable insight. Always feel free to leave your own thoughts in the comments section. All messages in bold are written by Kent, and I know damn well that some of you just come to read my responses to you.
Eric and I also did a podcast Friday night about the past 2 episodes of TWD, and I promise you, it’s really got some insight. Beyond that, we also delve into The Punisher first season on NetFlix. So if you have interest in either of those things, and you know damn well that you do or you wouldn’t be here, then us a listen and leave a comment or share it. If you hate it, just blame Bitty.
Give me your thoughts on last week’s helicopter that Rick saw. (My apologies for not asking this last week.)
Briana: I was completely shocked by the helicopter! Obviously it has to be some sort of military/government vehicle but is it being run by those who originally owned it? I’m thinking not! Some rando who knew how to fly a helicopter got a hold of it and took it somewhere! Lol! (So this week, I did a podcast with Eric. Something that we discussed and you kinda brought it up here is, how many people who are survivors know how to operate a chopper? Secondly, where are they still getting all of this fuel for? To go a little further, I doubt that libraries are too ransacked. Why is there only one doctor among all of these groups? You would think that Negan, Ezekiel, and even Gregory would have put a couple of people in charge of learning certain medical skills, like stab and bullet wounds, fevers, and amputations. But being able to fly a chopper, that’s what the show goes with. Ending rant.)
Bob: I really wasn’t sure what to think about the chopper. I thought maybe the military/government is still functioning in some capacity. (I find it interesting that they haven’t really involved the government too much in this. Aside from the CDC in season 1 and that Eugene lied about being with the gov, nothing much has transpired. Now, it is very plausible that with people trying to hunker down in some bunker, it wouldn’t take much to wipe everybody out, one walker begets another and so on. Still, I truly wish that this was discussed by somebody with legitimate knowledge.)
Bitty: I’m excited to learn more about it. It’s been years and we’ve only seen a couple of states. Hopefully there is military active somewhere! (I just ate a pickle in honor of Eugene. Anyway, great point. Have we seen them in the Carolinas, Alabama, Tennessee, or Kentucky? Yes, we as viewers look at the map and assume that they took a straight line. Well, maybe not Morgan with the reveal, but that’s for later. I felt that they missed an opportunity to add a bit of the Carolinas. It’s been Georgia and Virginia. I want more! I want Montana.)
Brian: Jesse has been found with the cure to the blue meth flu and the government is taking back control of the world…. (I tried watching Need For Speed…I did not make it. Could this be a tie in to a sequel with him in a chopper? There was a chopper in the first film. Just sayin’.)
Chris: The governor has had his brain surgically installed into a helicopter and is now seeking revenge against Rick. It wouldn’t surprise me if it belonged to Negan. (Chris, if I ever meet you in person, I plan on shaking your hand. Yes, it will be a sign of gratitude, but know that at least 92% of the gratitude is for the first half of this particular response. Kudos. It does speak volumes that I thought about this for a little bit picturing how silly it would be. Even if it was Rick hallucination dream while in this container that he is currently in. I know that everybody just thought of your response as funny, but Rick could have some trippy dreams in there, and this could be one. I would be ever so happy to see this come to fruition.)
Raylene: My first thought is that it’s a hallucination since I am not sure if anyone other than Rick saw it. (See it, or at least hear it. Shouldn’t that draw some attention from a lot of various entities, both dead and undead?)
Eric: Simon has mentioned “the flyer” before. It’s probably Negan’s (We talked a lot about this on the podcast. I really do like the idea of the Saviors finding a chopper, and Negan standing there, and then saying something like “Man, this gets be fucking hard. We are going to get in the air and find all of the camps surrounding us and we are going to fuck them to death.” Or something outrageously awful, chock full of innuendo. I really like the idea that it’s theirs.)
Kent: Prior to Talking Dead, I honestly thought it had something to do with Fear The Walking Dead. Since I have no other inkling and now know that it is Morgan who will be featured on Fear, I am now more gung ho about this idea. There’s nothing stating that it’s only one character appearing on one show or the other. I think the Morgan announcement is a red herring, and we will have somebody in a chopper trying to find Morgan. Let’s call that person Strand. I will offer another theory, that is going to be wrong. I can say this, after ALL OUT WAR, a character that we know reaches out to an unknown character. That unknown character may be with a group that has a chopper. I feel that is like Season 11 or 12 stuff though, so I doubt that’s the gameplan.
How will Rick’s visit with the Scavengers end now that we know that they have him locked up?
Briana: Ugh! He irritates me! Who goes to a place like that all by himself? I don’t think it’s going to end well! They either plan on trading him or killing him so I’m at a loss on how he will get out of this pickle. (Wow, we now have 2 pickle references in this blog. How exciting! I am going to throw this idea out there, and I hope people think about it. The Scavengers are not bad people. They were minding their own damn business this whole time, just hanging out in the nude, crafting some art, maybe listening to some Joplin or Simon and Garfunkle on one of the numerous car stereos that they have. At no point have we seen them become aggressive without provocation. Rick is the dumbass who started with them. We, as fans, got mad that the Scavengers made the deal with the Saviors and screwed over those we love, well not Brian. Anyway, the reality is that they seemingly made the most lucrative deal and had hoped to be left alone thereafter. Along comes Officer Friendly, F’N their shit up again. He already killed their greatest warrior, Winslow the walker. Rick is lucky to be alive if you really think about it. He;s absolutely unnecessarily provoking these people who want to be self sufficient and left alone.)
Bob: Does he have conjugal rights with the leader of the Scavs? (I had lots of responses for this one. The 2 I settled on are simple. 1. I think Janis would be a perfect starting girl for Carl before him and Enid or whoever else. I think Janis would teach him valuable lessons that Michonne can’t quite provide. 2. Janis only gets nude when she is making art. No conjugal visits.)
Bitty: He will also be making naked art. Honestly I think she will come around. She just wants everything to be on her own terms. (I’ll refer you to my response to Bri and simply ask, why does Janis need to come around? They were getting by just fine until Rick intervened their peaceful short sentence lifestyle. Rick should have to adapt.)
Brian: He will be given to Negan as a pow. The Ricktards with try and trade the group of saviors for him. In the meantime the leader will use him as a nude model for her art. (Yeah, I hope Rick does the Kate Winslet pose from Titanic. I assume that he saw it his world, probably Lori forced him to. I think you are partially right, that there will be a trade, and you could be 100% spot on. I keep thinking that it’s going to be Gabe and possibly Eugene or Enid and Aaron for the POW’d at Hilltop. It could very well be for Rick though. Negan does value his people.)
Chris: Well, Rick isn’t going to die. Maybe they will try to take Rick to the saviors, only for alexandrians to rescue him. (What you just said goes back a few blogs ago about the perception that Daryl and Rick are unkillable. Rick shouldn’t be the one who went. If it was somebody else, let’s say Rosita, we could start hypothesizing scenarios in which she died. Here, we have a foregone conclusion that Rick is surviving just fine, so the danger and suspense factor is missing.)
Raylene: I think a group will come to save him since they know where he went which why the hell go alone in the first place. (Much like in Game of Thrones, we can see how people can now teleport to certain locations at the exact right time. Therefore, Daryl’s group, Carol, Henry, Morgan, Aaron, and Enid will all converge at the right spot within seconds of each other. Don’t put it past them to do this.)
Eric: There will be some daring escape, gunfight, some no name actor/actress will die. (I laughed at the no name actor/actress part because that is SO going to happen.)
Kent: Brian was talking to me about nude art and the Thunderdome, and man, I liked all of that stuff. I am assuming that Aaron is heading there soon, and perhaps Carol and Henry will as well. Still, they need more people, so I think Rick will pull a Kate Winslet, pose nude for Janis, and then Aaron will see this, get a raging clue, and then all Scavengers except Janis will die. Really, nobody reads my answers, so this is an example of me just talking to myself.
Should Carol have allowed Henry to follow her?
Briana: Why not? At this point, Carl isn’t the only kid who grew up in this and an uneducated kid is a dead kid in this world. So take the kid out and teach him a little. (I hadn’t considered that. He was younger than Carl when this all started. This world may very well be all that he really knows or can recall. That’s kinda scary. I love the fact that Henry is the real life brother to Sophia.)
Bob: Yeah, I think she is hoping to push Ezekiel to some limits…. To get him to act. (Good insight. If Ezekiel has one person that he cares most about that can cause him to leave his pity party, it’s definitely Henry, and Carol knows how to push those buttons.)
Bitty: No. omg Carol with the damn kids again. She can’t get away!!!!! (Some guys are crazy chick magnets. Some girls are asshole magnets. Carol, she is always saddled with the kids. The thing is, since Sophia, she has done such a wonderful job, as far as the acting goes.)
Brian: like normal Carol will lead another child to his doom.(Since when has that ever happened? Judith is still alive with more hair than both of us combined, or is that because Tyrese took care of her. Let’s see. Sopha dead. When Carol had to watch Carl he didn’t run off much at least. All the Woodbury kids including Mika and Lizzie…double check. Sam…triple check. Poor Henry.)
Chris: Why not? It’s not like anything bad has happened to kids when Carol is with them….. oh wait….(Judith and Carl are the Grimes exception. It’s interesting to me that in the comic, Carol was like pudgy and she died in the prison because she was batshit crazy, but Sophia is still alive. It’s amazing how they turned that whole narrative on it’s side for the show. So weird to think about it.)
Raylene: As I immediately thought Henry is doomed now that he is with Carol she is the angel of death for kids (Well, it almost feel like this is Carol’s cross to bear, her own personal Hell of having kids drawn to her. Maybe she wasn’t a good mom, and let Ed do some bad shit to Sophia. It could be some twisted shit.)
Eric: Stupid kid deserves to die if he doesn’t listen to carol. (Yeah, Carol is the one person that you listen to and I feel that she will keep you safest.)
Kent: Well, it’s not like Nabilla was baking Henry cookies, so why not take advantage of that teachable moment. I mean, the kid doesn’t look comfy wielding his stick, but he’ll figure it out. I am still more intrigued that the kid is the real life brother of Sophia.
Please give us your first impressions of Siddiq.
Briana: I was super skeptical of him at first and felt Rick had the right idea but he seems really genuine. I could also be naive in that assumption but if he is telling the truth, I like him. I have always felt that everyone should be killing every walker they pass so I enjoy his take on that. (Oh, I love the whole killing every walker bit. The dude is a machine. He’s gotta be very smart too to be doing this on his own. I hope that we learn more because he has potential to bring something new to the group. Or he can go the way of Heath.)
Bob: Simple and honest, probably part of a group somewhere…. (I didn’t even consider that once I knew his name, because of his connection in the comic. WIth that being said, him being in the comic means nothing, as Daryl, Merle, Tara and others can vouch for. For all I know, him and the helicopter could be connected in some capacity.)
Bitty: I was sketched out by him at first. Then I found myself wondering about his age. Are Carol and him supposed to be the same age and are they setting us up for another heart breaking death. (Melissa McBride is in her 50’s in real life. Siddiq is closer to our age.)
Brian: too well trained to a loner. I think he’s a scout for a new group.. maybe the chopper people or could be a savior scout. They are everywhere and have supplies stashed. (Geeze, I really should read people’s responses first as I just suggested that Siddiq and the chopper could be related. I think that it is a distinct possibility.)
Chris: He seemed genuine enough. He’ll be the perfect replacement for Gabriel (Yeah, plus he is “Muslim American”, I have no idea if that is the right term, but I found it on a wedsite, so I am using it. I apologize if that isn’t the proper term. It goes back to the thing with TWD that they can only have so many men of color on the show at once, for whatever reason, and history has proven this. I think you’re right on being a good Gabriel replacement.)
Raylene: Trust no one Carl you fool and don’t take your dumbass mother’s advice (Carl just got his hair cut and now has a mullet. It’s supposedly for a new movie role. Just sayin’. If they killed Carl, I would struggle with this particular show.))
Eric: Just some dude on his own during the apocalypse (Here’s a real kick in the balls for you. In the comics, he hails from Oceanside. Obviously, that won’t be the case here, or so I would assume.)
Kent: I like Siddiq in the comic, and I thought his whole talk about his mom was good. What this does tell me is that Gabriel is dead. Another man of color just showed up on the show…yeah. This is the Walking Dead here. Ezekiel and Morgan, watch your asses.
Should Carl have left his post in Alexandria to go recruit Siddiq?
Briana: I guess that really depends on what he was doing in Alexandria. Since we have seen literally nothing of him through all of this, I don’t know if what he was up to was important or not. So sure! There’s lots of people around to look out and he didn’t go extremely far from town. (I would dispute your claim of lots of people to look out. To use the nerd phrase, most of the red shirts went with Rick for the million bullet shoot out, where the leader of the red shirts, Tobin, got shot. If you think about it, Carl, Michonne, Rosita, Judith, and Kent were left. Carl, Michonne, and Rosita all bailed from their posts to do dumb things. There is a distinct possibility that either Kent or Judith is currently in charge of Alexandria. All the known people are gone, from my perspective. With that being said, at least Carl now has Siddiq to help defend the place so he doesn’t have to go all Macauley Culkin on the Wet Bandits, I mean Saviors. Seriously though, if they did an episode of Carl setting up traps for Saviors, we’d all laugh.)
Bob: No, it’s war – DO YOUR JOB! (Isn’t it funny how people actually had more discipline prior to the war than they do now? Not that they are treating it as fun and games, but in WAR, this is all just day 1 type of knowledge. Un real.)
Bitty: Carl is finding his own way. He believes in man kind still and wants to prove that not everyone is bad. It’s what he is fighting for. (“Mankind. That word should have new meaning for all of use today. We can’t be consumed by our petty differences anymore. I had to do the quote.)
Brian: Arl is stupid and loves to take risks like his pappy. This will lead to Arl bringing the downfall of Alexandria. (I’m more curious about your philosophy on whether Judith will ever rise to power in some capacity.)
Chris: Of course he shouldn’t have. Rick has never been known to make great decisions, so carl is just following in his footsteps. (Rick is off doing nude art, Carl is saving walker souls. Weird family. Here is another oddity that I wish we were doing this from season one. Does anybody ever stop and think about how big of a dick Rick is? When he first meets the group, he just rolls in and takes over the leader spot of the group from presumably Shane and possibly Dale. Like, he just took it. One of his first actions as part of the group was to handcuff Merle and basically ended up leaving him to die, intentionally or not. Yet, Negan gets the bad rap. I find it weird.)
Raylene: No he shouldn’t have who the hell is left there if they get attacked? (Kent and Judith. They’ll be fine.)
Kent: Fuck Alexandria! It’s not like they have solar panels and a great system there or anything. Why should anybody be concerned with keeping this place locked down? Seriously, an scene for some exposition about who he left in charge would have been nice. I am assuming it is Kent as Michonne and Rosita bailed, and Tobin is wounded. Really, it’s either Kent or Judith.
Should Michonne and Rosita have left Alexandria, considering their health, and the lack of people to defend their home?
Briana: It was a terrible idea and I’d like to say it worked out well for them in the end because it did but not on their behalf. They went in there, fumbled through the whole thing and then Daryl had to save their asses. It was not a good idea. (That’s the best/worst part of it. They go on this trip that was long enough that warranted them switching drivers midway through for some reason. I gotta ask, why did they switch who was driving? Anyway, they get there, and Rosita has some kind of combat training. Michonne’s specialty is to sneak up on people to get close enough to melee range. Yet they totally made both characters act even dumber. Mind blown, like that poor guy who fought Rosita.)
Bob: No, DO YOUR JOB! BUT….. It’s a good thing they did, at the moment. (Is Rick the only one following the plan at the moment, well him and Carol? I wish they would have spent time going over the plan in the season premiere rather than give pep talks and wasting ammunition.)
Bitty: You know my thoughts on Rosita. Toss her in a pit and leave her. OVER IT. (Man, that’s rough. Well, somebody has to do die soon. You may get your wish. Or Siddiq could knock her up and Rosita lasts 4 more seasons. Anything is possible. I bet Ned Stark could give her advice.)
Brian: I loved to see it. It gives the saviors better chances to either take Alexandria or kill more Ricktards (I seriously intend on getting you a Ricktards shirt. It would be hilarious. You’re right. They have no defense at all now.)
Chris: Again, like Carl, of course not. But the show would be pretty boring with some of the main characters just sitting around all season. (Couldn’t there feasibly have been leftover Wolves to raid Alexandria? Actually, I want to know why nobody ever want back to their hang out and take the supplies. They were well stocked.)
Raylene: No but they are stupid females so common sense isn’t a plenty there (Oh, you want me to go on some woman rant. Nope, not doing it. I believe in Vice Principal Strong Woman. Anybody reading this that may be confused, watch this past week of South Park for a treat.)
Eric: I don’t think so. With impending war, they needed all the defenders they can get. Plus with them healing, they would be better off staying put. Hell, Lori rolled her car and she wasn’t injured before the crash. (Yeah, how the hell did Lori come out of that crash so well? That was one of those things to just kill time. If I am being practical here, and assuming that the solar panels are still holding up, it amazes me how little focus has been put on protecting what they have. I get that they wanted to do a huge assault, but Negan still has the numbers. It’s weird.)
Kent: Seriously, why not just put out the welcome mat for any intruders. The Wolves invade and it’s hands across America to save Alexandria. Now that we’re in ALL OUT WAR, nobody seems to give a damn. I don’t get it. I wish Rosita would just take it over and walk around naked. They can show that on AMC as Janis proved.
Daryl, Tara, Michonne, and Rosita are now on a mission. Do you think that their mission will cause at least one of their lives?
Briana: It’s time, I can feel it. Tara’s getting it! Otherwise, it could also be Rosita but I’m going with Tara. (Gold star for you! It is finally time…..for the midseason finale. Not this week.)
Bob: I get the feeling Rosita is in for it. (I would have agreed if this was last season when they finally built her character up, it felt like they may do the build up a character to kill them thing. They have done jack with her this season. I think that she is a candidate, but I think that she is safe.)
Bitty: Again, Rosita you can be arrogant and dumb and get killed. (It’s like you feel about Rosita the way I feel about Tara. I think one of our girls is gonna get got. I’m going to be selfish and hope it’s my girl. She has been so irritating since her very first scene. Like, it’s impressive.)
Brian: hopefully. I think michonne will lose the baby… and Tara will die trying to save her. Btw rick knocked her up…. (I’ll assume you are implying that Rick knocked up Michonne and not Tara, but that would be kinda funny. I could see Michonne get knocked up. It was back, well some years ago, when Michonne kinda had like a little meltdown in the child’s room. I always thought that would be a precursor, so there you go. And you get a gold star for being on the Tara train.)
Chris: I think it’s time for an impactful death. It won’t be Daryl, but maybe Tara or Rosita. Then again, now that Michonne will be in marvel movies for the considerable future, it might be time to write her off the show. (With such a huge cast, I feel that these actors can feasibly do 1-2 side projects along with TWD. If you think about it, aside from maybe Andy Lincoln, most have plenty of time. The thing is that Andy shows up on set just to watch them film other stuff not involving him. I think that’s such a neat and dedicated thing. I know others do too, but I hear about it with Andy a lot. This is definitely a coin toss between Rosita and Tara. I brought up how Carol was portrayed in the comic, but it should be said that Michonne got a much better make over in the show as well. Michonne slept around like crazy in the comic. Michonne dying would catch everybody off guard, that’s for sure.)
Raylene: I’m ready for Tara and Rosita to just go away other then Michonne fighting skills I am over the whole usefulness of her character to the show (Rosita needs to stay around so Eugene can finally get a chick. He deserves that because he won’t have many video games after ALL OUT WAR.)
Kent: Man, what a Tarabull idea that would be. I would be sooooo sad if that were to happen. Please, whatever the producers and writers do, just don’t kill Tara. Seriously, we know Michonne ain’t gon get got, and Daryl is practically a Marvel super hero, and Rosita is the most attractive female on the show. I will go on record and state that if the other 3 die and Tara is the last one standing, I will legit stop watching this show. Just throwing that out there. SOmebody has to die….I hope.
Will Margaret, I mean Maggie, come to regret keeping the prisoners inside the walls of Hillside?
Briana: Of course she will. Don’t they always regret these sort of things? And long haired dude (I don’t feel like googling for his name again. You know the one I mean) is obviously looking for his chance every second and he will find it. The HillTop is not made up of a bunch of Maggie’s and Rick’s. They are going to mess up and he’s going to get a gun and some people are definitely going to die. (Now they don’t have Aaron and Enid either. They have a pregnant Maggie, who isn’t showing yet, a wacky Jesus, and Dianne. I trust in Dianne’s skills. The long haired guy is Jared. Just try to remember Subway and you should be fine. I think his death may end up being the most satisfying one of the season, if he does go. I mean, he pissed off Gavin who is supposed to be a dick. I am kinda surprised that he lasted with The Saviors.)
Bob: I will venture a No here. Because everything we seem to see makes us want to believe bad things will happen – so nothing will happen and everyone, save 2 of them, will “join” hillside. (I think Jared is an exception, and probably Gregory. I can see them joining Hilltop or, just rejoining Sanctuary after the dust settles. This feels like a red herring.)
Bitty: I don’t think Maggie will have a sense of regret, ever after the death of Glenn. Everything she does has a purpose and even if they gets lose and harm the Hilltop she will still stand by her word and actions. (Yeah, which is why I think she sucks as a leader at the moment. When you have to rationalize that your decision could be useful down the road, while so many horrible things can happen, you just gotta take care of it now. Even if she loses that bargaining chip, is it that big of a loss?)
Brian: yes. For once Gregory will do a good thing and unite then in a revolt against a weakened hilltop. (I cannot tell you how much I want this to happen. There’s nobody at the Hilltop that would hate to lose at this moment, aside from Dianne, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make. If they took out Maggie & Jesus, and reclaim Gracie, it would be amazing.)
Chris: Based on track record, yes, they most certainly will. (The stupid thing is that if it comes back to bite them in the ass, it won’t be Maggie or Jesus’ ass that gets bitten. That is frustrating to me as a fan.)
Raylene: If Jared remains alive then yes she will regret it (I want Jared to takeover Hilltop. He could get a big head and try to talk to Negan, like Spencer did. It could be hilarious.)
Eric: I know that they are going to need people to run and populate the colonies, but hostages only complicate the situation, now you have to feed them. (Yeah, gotta feed your “bargaining chips” or else they lose their value. Supplies cannot be too solid, at least from what they have shown us.)
Kent: In real life, yes, of course she would. In the TWD universe, everything just works out for her after Glenn’s death, that it’s borderline gag worthy, so she won’t regret a damn thing. Boooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
Is it smart for Enid to go with Aaron?
Briana: Probably not but he can use the help. He’s not in a good place mentally and it’s less smart for him to go by himself. (I can see your point. I just think it’s odd for that person to be Enid. For all I know, they were friendly prior to the Ricktatorship in Alexandria, so maybe they have some catching up to do. I am kinda surprised that they didn’t put Jesus with Aaron. TWD loves to tease some romance, and this is such an imperfect time that it feels right for them to do it. Maybe not romance, but more like building the bond.)
Bob: Totally, he could use the company for his own mental health.(I wonder if they’ll show him driving and then the next scene, she’ll be driving. I hope they do this.)
Bitty: Enid’s character needs a little boost. So far she’s been pretty bland. Hopefully we’ll learn what her ambition is. Was she a savior at one point? (No, she simply survived, the J.S.S. backstory. This poor girl has been accused of being a Wolf or a Savior and I think she’s just a girl that figured her shit out better than most adults in that situation.)
Brian: it’s shows that the Ricktards are falling apart and the group’s are becoming every man for themselves and will lead to an easier battle for the saviors to win. Negan is a strong leader with loyal followers. (From an outsider’s perspective, this would be the logical outcome. Negan still has more people, probably more ammo, and a better system set up. He should still be favored in Vegas to win. The only positives that Rick has going for him is that the show is based around it, but that is it.)
Raylene: Like really what’s her use in combat fighting (Ya know what? I bet you that she does something great in combat. I’m going bat for her. She’s gotta be cool at some point. The waiting game on her character is getting stale.)
Kent: I would say no. I was speculating that Enid would be the wet nurse after Carl did the right thing. I’m at a loss and poor Gracie. Who’s going to take care of her? I think that should have been Gregory’s job, to babysit Gracie. Come on, you know that would have been funny. I hope Jared gets to bitchslap Jesus before he escapes.
What was more ridiculous: Leo’s rocket launcher death or Zia’s Fat Lady getting hit by Daryl’s truck?
Briana: I loved the rocket launcher! The truck was a little cheesy but still pretty cool as far as effects go.
Bob: Rocket launcher = awesome. Truck collision was more ridiculous just because of perfect timing.
Bitty: Rocket Launcher
Brian: the truck.. really Darryl just happened to be driving by at that exact moment to cause the accident. Then just pop out and perfectly shoot her in the head.. No even a bit believable. (Yeah, the fact that he immediately got a headshot after was hilariously bad. That really was terrible.)
Raylene: They were both pretty stupid but to have perfect timing with the truck is beyond frustrating
Kent: The truck. The fucking timing on this show…..I know brain, I tried turning you off, but you keep coming back on. This show never ceases to amaze me with ridiculous moments. I kinda thought some people would go for the RPG because in theory, that should have sent Rosita’s bitch ass backwards. There’s a lot to that part, but it’s still preferable to the timing of the truck.
If you were in Gregory’s current position, what would you do?
Briana: If I’m Gregory, I do nothing. Sit back and wait for all of this to unravel. He’s a selfish coward so this is his M.O.
Bob: Exactly what he is doing. Cowering.
Bitty: If I was Gregory and acted and thought like him I’d do the same thing if I was thrown in there… plot and try to reconnect with whoever he can in the pen. (Reconnecting I think is one of the better ideas here.)
Brian: rally the troops. Margaret put a person who knows the layout of the hilltop. What they have for stores and weapons into a group of her enemy. This will be her downfall. (THIS! This right here. He knows the ins and out of this place, yet Margaret put him in there with everybody else. She knew better than to put him in general pop. He needed to be put in solitary. I found this borderline stunning, until I remembered, the writers feel like they can do whatever with her and it doesn’t matter because all she has to do is reference Glenn and get everybody sad, and nobody considers her stupid actions. Once again, Maggie is not a good leader.)
Raylene: Try to pit people against each other (I would thoroughly enjoy this scenario. I need a scene where he asks Jared to come over and see Gregory whisper in his ear. Please, make this happen!)
Eric: Start learning to kiss some serious ass (Possibly more than kissing.)
Kent: Pick a fight with the biggest guy in the joint and become the leader. That’s the most reasonable thing I can think of.
Final Thoughts – Also, how do you feel about Morgan joining the cast of Fear The Walking Dead, and does increase or decrease his odds of dying this season on The Walking Dead?
Briana: What??? I didn’t know he joined FTWD! (I don’t watch that one) is he Morgan or someone else? Is that why he had a breakdown and ran away? That makes sense. (To answer your questions, Morgan will still be Morgan. Both shows take place in the same universe. Fear was originally in Cali, then Mexico, and appears to be heading to Texas sooner than later. Now, here is where it gets complicated. They wrapped up their 3rd season a couple of months back. In TWD, we can surmise that we are in year 3-5 range, despite being in season 8. Fear’s second season took place around the same time as TWD’s first season. So the question is, will this be during the time that Morgan was insane and burning bodies as we saw in TWD’s season 3, or more likely after he cleared, he kept moving on to do more clearing. Then maybe he does the Fear thing, then meets Eastman, and then saves Daryl and Aaron. I am making a lot of broad guesses here. The other question that must be considered is will Morgan travel and find them, or will Fear continue moving East and maybe bring the female lead, Madison, closer to her roots? I would assume the latter as she’s got a southern belle voice that occasionally comes out of her. If nothing else, I think they have effectively added viewers to a failing show by virtue of using Morgan. Sorry for the long response.)
Bitty: I’m wondering if he is going to die? I don’t watch Fear but I’m guessing it’s before the WD time frame? So Morgan would have to die in WD so we can see how it all started in Fear. Also Carol’s over the top emotion during Talking makes me wonder if they did kill him off. It seemed so final. (I will direct you to my long answer to Bri. I swear, I think Melissa blew it on Talking. Her reaction was odd and emotional. I don’t think she was supposed to react much other than to, do the praise your fellow actor spiel. If I could put money on it, I would put it on Morgan dying this season. He already did the whole I can’t die thing. I hope not, but the writing on the wall…..it looks bad.)
Brian: given that negan likes to take on “wives” as punishment for disobedience. Could an error in ricks ways have lead to arl being sired by the negan? And the coma caused by Lucille? I digress I think Morgan on talking is just a ratings grab. I think he’s fine… or commits suicide cause Jesus whipped his ass…. (Morgan shouldn’t have lost to Jesus. It would be nice if they explained why Jesus can fight the way that he does. I think Morgan dies via arrow Since hardly anybody is reading at this point, I love to throw these oddities out.)
Raylene: At this point I could care less about either show very disgruntled (Awww, somebody didn’t get their way. Now you know how I feel when survives another episode.)
Kent: I already said it in the comments, but to summarize. 1. Melissa gave away Morgan’s death in the show based on her reaction on Talking. 2. I predict Morgan dies via arrow, this season, probably second half. 3. He may help Madison in some capacity get to her family’s house.
All the pictures used in this blog are for review purposes. They are the property of:
This week, we get some insight as to what happened prior to Rick’s assault on Sanctuary and the aftermath with Negan and Gabriel. It really provided us with plenty of info and gave us some things to speculate upon. This week was a little rough for some of my contributors…..thanks Thanksgiving. I’m sorry, I can’t be too upset at National Fat Guy day. It’s sooo tasty. Anyway, thank you to Briana, Bob, Brian, Kristi, and Raylene for taking time out of their busy schedule to provide their valuable insight. Always feel free to leave your own thoughts in the comments section. All messages in bold are written by Kent, and I know damn well that some of you just come to read my responses to you.
Ohhhhh, also Eric and I did a podcast prior to this episode airing. It’s a really solid podcast that you can listen to and get some valuable insight……okay, well it’s 2 dudes shooting the shit and talking TWD. If you want our analysis, that’s great. We have a good time.
Did this episode alter your viewpoint of Negan at all?
Briana: Maybe a little. It was interesting to see how grateful even the workers are for him. It also seemed obvious that without Negan, things would not last long. It really just left me with more questions than answers. (I would absolutely recommend reading the Here’s Negan story that I left a link for in my response. It would hopefully answer some of your questions. Yes, it was good to see Saviors being grateful for his ruling.)
Bob: I can understand him better now. I always knew there was a reason for him being a jerk. Everyone has adapted into the new world the way they needed to if they were able and survived. The Alexandrians aren’t so different than the Saviors. The Saviors are more advanced in their hierarchy and structure. Someone will always rise to power and that power will corrupt them. (Yeah, there’s not much difference. Let’s face it, it’s people doing whatever to survive. Things that we find unsavory or reprehensible, but we know that there would be some people like this in a ZA. As you said, power corrupts and there will be a plethora of people yearning for power in a ZA. Just human nature really.)
Brian: the man… the myth.. the legend!!!! (Just nodding and smiling.)
Kristi: Not really. I’m not sure I believe his story about his wife. He still locked Gabrielle up so that was crappy. He is still an arrogant asshat that has taken supplies and doctors from other communities that have harmed them and put them in danger. He is just not a nice guy. (His story is legit. There’s more to it, and I did include the link in my response. If you don’t feel like checking it out, I can always sum it up for you, but that is the real story.)
Raylene: It is nice to have some backstory on him and it humanizes him more to me but I can not still get behind him due to my Abe. (You should aim your anger at Glenn. His death overshadowed Abe’s and stole his thunder.)
Kent: No, not at all, but I am pro Negan to begin with. I will say that I loved the comic that gives his backstory, which we saw a glimpse of in this episode. There is more that they may or may not ever delve into, so I shall not ruin it. I felt that this was needed to add layers to the most important character of the past 3 seasons. I know that a lot of you may have some questions, or perhaps have an urge to know more, and I would suggest that they pick up the graphic novel Here’s Negan, or be a total cheap ass and read it for free.
Now that Eugene knows about Dwight, what will Eugene’s next play be, given the pressure Negan put on him?
Briana: With Eugene, I believe it will come down to whether or not he needs to use that to save his own ass. I don’t think he will want to directly be responsible for the repercussions unless it’s because Negan suspects Eugene. (I do wonder how Negan would react to Eugene outing a person that Negan trusts. Negan is gonna be stressed and may make some rash decisions in the midst of ALL OUT WAR. Given certain circumstances, will Negan relaly be looking for truth or comfort?)
Bob: Eugene is super smart, so he has some circumstantial evidence. This isn’t enough for Eugene and we know Dwighty-boy can spin a situation. Eugene will probably recommend directly to Dwight that he should flee or turn himself in before he has to. Dwight may in turn manipulate a scenario where Eugene is found culpable and bye bye Eugene. (I don’t think you are far off the mark here. Based on what the books show us, I can see a scenario play out very similar to your description.)
Brian: Eugene will do the right thing and let Negan know!! (One would hope that Eugene would do the right thing. Maybe Spike Lee can make a movie about it.)
Kristi: I still want to believe Eugene is on Rick’s side. I don’t think he will out Dwight. (I haven’t seen any evidence to indicate that Eugene isn’t still on Rick’s side, while keeping himself out of harm’s way.)
Raylene: I think he will try to help Dwight perhaps finding a scapegoat to pin it on taking the heat off of him and Dwight. (If Bob’s theory is incorrect, I think that this is the other likely scenario.)
Kent: Whatever decision is made, by whoever makes it, it will backfire on them, and I mean them in a plural form, and I will simply leave it at that.
Did you find yourself agreeing with Rick or Daryl in their lover’s quarrel?
Briana: I’ll side with Daryl on this one. I’ve said it many times this season: this is war. They’re here to do a job. Take them out while you have the advantage and remember that they were on their way to your people to do the same. (That’s really my thought process. If I was living in Alexandria and I got a chance to vote, I would vote on Daryl’s plan in hopes of ending this ALL OUT WAR sooner rather than later.)
Bob: I agree with Daryl’s methods but with Rick’s planning. If you have a plan and it is working, stick with it. Daryl’s idea could later be implemented, but that’s what you get when two type A personalities fight it out. (As a Type B, I enjoy sitting back and watching the action, like a sloth.)
Brian: This is a tough one. Hopefully Daryl will realize Rick is only going to get him killed. (Daryl doesn’t seem like a guy that will figure it out until it’s too late, if we’re being honest here. I feel like Merle warned him of this in season 3 to an extent. Officer Friendly indeed.)
Kristi: I’m on Rick’s side. Daryl bugs me. Per the question in the last blog, I would like to see Daryl gone. (It’s still weird to me that a female is cool with Daryl getting got. I dig it.)
Raylene: I believe in Rick’s only because it saves the children, who are innocent in this war.
Kent: Well, we have 2 on Rick’s side, 2 on Daryl’s side, sorta, and 1 who just hopes that Daryl does something before Rick kills him. This is nice. I am so happy that we don’t have people agreeing. I know that eventually some folks may say “In Rick Grimes we trust” or some such nonsense. I’m going to give you a bullshit response. If I was a member of Rick’s group, I’d want them to go with Daryl’s plan. As a fan of a certain character who may be saved by sticking to Rick’s plan, I will side with Rick as a fan. See, I told you it was bullshit.
Fill in the blank. I felt ________ when I saw the jeep and explosives all catch on fire?
Briana: unsurprised. Definitely something they made very clear from the moment they showed the gas dripping. It did solve the fight though. (There is that. It did, in fact, stop the fight. I could have gone for more sleeper holds though, but that’s the wrestling fan in me.)
Bob: it was obvious what was going to happen (It reminds me of when Rick and Daryl first met Jesus and they lost all the food in that truck. It also reminded me of a song from Bob’s Burgers, and since your name is Bob, and not Joe, I felt this would be a good time to listen.)
Brian: AWESOME!! I told you so!!!! (I so wish I could have simply observed you watching this particular episode.)
Kristi: Indifferent. Didn’t really have many feeling towards it.
Raylene: Annoyed that they just wasted perfectly good ammunition because of a stupid fight. (Bitches be catty, YO! And Daryl is possibly the biggest bitch of them all, soooo there you go.)
Kent: Deja Vu. Seriously, this was the meeting Jesus episode again, and then I laughed at their silly fighting.
DId Father Gabriel get bit or is it something else?
Briana: My first instinct is that he was bitten but I have a feeling that’s what they want me to think. (You are right, they definitely want us to think that. Will they go for the swerve? Is this Glenn under a dumpster all over again?)
Bob: The bite effect wouldn’t seem to have happened that quickly. I think it is panic or hysteria. Maybe he caught the flu. Gabriel doesn’t have a strong constitution… (I agree with your last sentiment a lot. Regarding the time frame, if you’ve been paying attention since day 1, you will have noticed that the timing thing is a tool of convenience. I wish it was more than that, but I feel we have seen some big fluctuations. Quite frankly, it could simply come down to somebody who got sick all of the time vs somebody who rarely got sick prior to the ZA and their immune system adding longevity to the flu and it’s symptoms.)
Brian: a ploy to get out of the cell! (This being the other obvious thing, contrary to what I just wrote to Bob.)
Kristi: He got bit. His time is up. I’m thinking his death will inspire Eugene to help Dwight. (I hope that you are partially right. Is that a dickheaded thing to say? I honestly don’t want Eugene to help Dwight, not yet at least. Dwight and Eugene have so much potential in story arcs, that I am cool if some twists and turns occur.)
Raylene: My first thought was he got bite fighting to get to the trailer that him and Negan were trapped in and finally showing symptoms once in Sanctuary. (This seems to be the most likely scenario.)
Kent: I will say this again. Gabe’s death in the comic was uneventful and didn’t help the narrative in any capacity and quite frankly felt lazy. I would rather Gabe die earlier in the show if his death serves a purpose. We never see him get bit, which is a TWD staple. I still believe that Rick was standing at Gabe’s grave in the season opener, as I alluded to back then, and I think walker Gabe is going to bite somebody else that fans may like…..or Tara.
They talked about the previous leader of the Savior’s prior to Negan taking over. Do you think that we will ever get more info on this?
Briana: This had me really questioning where Negan came from and how he got to this point. I don’t think they will go into a lot of detail on the previous leader so much as maybe give us a little Negan backstory. At least his over throwing of said leader. (I really think that this will be the end of Negan’s backstory for awhile, and possibly ever. There may be opportunities in the future, but that is all conjecture at this point. If so, hopefully Carl is the one who uncovers the truth.)
Bob: No, that’s over. The point wasn’t the past, it was the present and future. (I regrettably think that you are correct. In my rant, you will see why. Missed opportunity.)
Brian: I hope they show how negan used his awesome leadership skills to save 100s of people’s lives..
Kristi: I see flashbacks in our future. (Maybe, but I wouldn’t be willing to bet my hairline on it. I feel that this show is so jam packed with characters, it’s not willing to delve too deeply beyond one episode to really explore a character’s past.)
Raylene: No I don’t see any more of it.
Kent: I don’t think that it would serve much of a purpose if I am going to be honest. If they wanted to show it or tell it, they would have in this episode. They could have given us a whole Negan backstory episode similar to Morgan and Eastman and it would have been well worth the time. We could have cut out a good 45 minutes of random guns firing and car chases to have given us the proper story with flashbacks of Negan. Actually, allow me to go one step further. I think it was a bullshit move on TWD’s part for not giving us this episode. This episode kinda made Negan a little too likable compared to the books. I don’t care about the likable factor, but the story added a human factor that really fleshed out Negan. It’s kinda like how they didn’t do Abe justice in his backstory on the show. They didn’t show what happened to Abe’s family and they should have to add to Abe’s sorrow and hopelessness. When this show explores the characters, especially their past, it really is when the show is at it’s best and they failed the fans a bit in this one.
To go along with the last question, do you think it is possible that Simon was the previous leader as was discussed on Talking Dead?
Briana: He would fit the vibe I got from their talking of the guy but I don’t feel like someone who was dethroned by Negan would still be alive and have that much power. (Therein lies the caveat. Was Negan always as ruthless, or did he takeover in a similar way as Rick took over Alexandria? I know the natural inclination of fans is to assume that there was a lot of bloodshed, but maybe it was very different. Still, I doubt the leader is alive, but I suppose somebody like Negan would love to keep that person under his thumb for awhile.)
Bob: Nah, I think it was simply Simon getting a little heady and giving himself too much room… (More than likely. Honestly, I am struggling picturing Simon ruling a place as big as Sanctuary.)
Brian: Simon has always been Negans number 2. They were separated when the disaster started but have since been reunited. Simon may have gathered the numbers to start the saviors until the true leader could return. (I would love to know how long Simon and Negan have been together. This is something that I would love to have answered.)
Raylene: I don’t think it was him I do think he was here when Negan took over, although perhaps the vibe then was to kill everyone they encounter due to his plan for the Hillside. (I’ve often wondered if the plan all along was to have Simon run Hillside and just tell Gregory to fuck off.)
Kent: I’m going to say no. Although the theory intrigues me, I am saying that Simon wouldn’t enjoy his role as much as he does now if he had been in charge previously. Honestly, Gavin seems more pissed off than Simon and would be a more likely candidate in my mind. More than likely the previous leader has been chained at the gate for some time now. Still, I enjoy the random theories.
Gabriel seemed concerned about Dr. Carson’s well being. Do you think Dr. Carson will get to deliver Maggie’s baby?
Briana: At this point I think they have to let Glenn’s baby be delivered and healthy. That was the beginning of how he gets back to Maggie to deliver her baby. (I do believe that the baby will be delivered and healthy. I really hope that they use the same name as they did in the comics. Who knows though? In the comics, Lori delivers the baby and is running while Governor is invading and shoots and kills Lori and the baby. Sooooo obviously things are different.)
Bob: Ahh, he was in hysterics basically. In reality we wouldn’t take that seriously but on the show…. Maybe Gabriel know she has an infection and wants to save the Dr. (On the show, everything means something, except those things that mean nothing.)
Brian: pure selfishness on his part.. act concerned to show he’s harmless then try and escape.. (What a great ploy this is though in all fairness.)
Kristi: I do. I think Eugene will help in getting him out and he will get back to her. (I think that you are more correct than you realize.)
Raylene: I hope so but Maggie should have some training from Herschel on birthing even though he was a vet. (True, but let’s not forget the last time Maggie was around a birth. Carl had to put Lori down and everybody cared way more about Lori’s death than T Dog’s selfless sacrifice to save Carol which is still paying dividends for the group while Judith still isn’t pulling her own weight.)
Kent: Yes, yes I do.This is all setting something up for the second half of this season and that’s all I will say.
In a case where Negan died or became incapacitated, who would be the best leader for the Saviors in your opinion? Please don’t pick anybody who is currently a leader such as Rick, Maggie, Ezekiel, or Janis.
Briana: I’d think this group would be Daryl’s kind of people. He and Dwight could turn things around. (It’s a shame that Daryl didn’t have some of the Claimers left to help. That would work out pretty fun. And then the next time him and Rick had a lover’s quarrel, we could have ALL OUT WAR 2!)
Bob: Gavin. He is not a traitor, not a hot head, not power hungry and not a wimp. He would be a better LEADER and sees through the nonsense. (I kinda wish I had read this prior to answering #7. I think that Gavin is actually very underrated. From what we have been shown, he basically tried to keep the arrangement with the Kingdom going as smoothly as possible and he punished Jared when warranted. I think he makes a TON of sense, and I honestly think that Rick could work with him peacefully.)
Brian: I think that Eugene with Jerry as his number 2/ enforcer. (I just want to see see their meetings. It would be a true delight. This would be amazing.)
Raylene: I think Gregory would do good there he would have henchman to put his rules in action. (Gregory would work if he had people to back up his words. He’s no fool, and could be a decent leader as long as stuff stayed peaceful.)
Kent: Carol or Carl. I say Carol because they would have them Saviors baking some good cookies. Carl would be fun because he’s learned some from his dad, and Carl wouldn’t take shit from anybody. I think either character would work great here. My third option would be Kent…obviously.
Rick appears to be on a mission to meet the Scavengers again. How do you see this playing out?
Briana: Well, I trusted them last time and we saw how that turned out. I have a gut feeling this time they’ll make a deal and keep it but I’m shooting myself in the foot already for that. (I’m fearing that you may be walking like Herschel sooner than later. Your poor foot.)
Bob: I see the alliance wiping out the Scavengers by foolery. (This seems like the most logical conclusion. Do they go logical or TWEEST is the big question. Also, very sad that you didn’t say Tom foolery. It just seems funnier that way.)
Brian: Rick will do like he always does and get more people killed so he can act tough. (The thing is, even when you are knee deep in your conspiracy theories, you’re not wrong here. This is going to happen, I think.)
Raylene: I see Jadis siding with him since Rick seems to have the upper hand now. (Soooo, Rick is now John Doe? Whose head is in the box then?)
Kent: I really like Pollyanna and I would love more story on the Scavengers, but this feels like a group similar to the Termites/Hunters or the Wolves or the Vatos. I don’t think they are long for this world. I really like Pollyanna though, or Jadis.
Daryl, Tara, and Morgan appear to all be of a similar mindset. Do you foresee any of them doing something that puts the group in danger?
Briana: No. Unfortunately I think their mindset is what’s keeping people alive. Look at what happened with the Kingdom. They killed everyone on sight, before they even knew how many were on them and they stayed alive until the one time they didn’t. Then they all died. So if I’m going based on past events, I’m thinking these are the ones who are making sense right now. (They are making sense, and I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing. They aren’t the moral compass, but they are right and being right can be a death sentence. If that sentence ends with Tara getting got, well then we will have a happy Kent.)
Bob: Nope, Morgan, “aint right.” There’s really no way to mess up this war unless you are a traitor. (Well, there is a tactic that may be deployed that hasn’t been explored yet in the show that may be an absolute game changer. Just sayin’.)
Brian: They will put themselves in danger by not following Rick’s orders. And their kill all saviors will lead them to all brutal deaths at the hand of lucille.. (Really, if this happened, a lot of people would be pissed, but this would be a HUGE shake up for the show. It’s one of those hypotheticals that I would love to see play out in hypothetical land. I still want Morgan to live.)
Raylene: No I see that someone will always put them in place. (Yeah, they’re always being held down by the man. It’s not fair.)
Kent: I believe this will be a case of one best check themselves before they wreck themselves. I hope Tara’s aggression goes unchecked. If Tara and Daryl go on a suicide mission, I will laugh.
Brian: a great mellow blues great named his trusty guitar lucille.. and a great mellow leader named his trusty defender lucille.. could negan be the ZA bb king? (Like I’m not going to link this song to go with your words.)
Raylene: Will we have a multiple major character death by mid season finale? (Yes, I guarandamtee it.)
Kent: I say that Tara dies in the midseason finale, and I am just counting down the days. Huh, the midseason finale happens on December 10th…..my birthday. Oh it’s true, it’s damn true. Tara is as good as dead. Plus, per IMDB, the description for that episode reads: “This mid season finale will put everything Rick and his group has done to this point to the test. Can Rick continue to fight? Or has he lost his will?” Yeah, this will be where we see the scenes from the season premiere with the graves.
All the pictures used in this blog are for review purposes. They are the property of:
We got a more character and story driven episode, thankfully, and it didn’t disappoint. They really added layers and dimensions to Ezekiel and Jerry. I’m back with my Mean Street Posse who answer my inane questions. As always, any comments in bold are done by Kent. Please enjoy, and share this with friends on social media in memory of Shiva.
I know some of you are especially emotional, so let’s just get it out of the way. Really, what was Jerry thinking when he was trying to break the chain or lock with his battleaxe and as a consequence, breaking it?
Briana: Right? What was he thinking? Wood against chains? I think he just panicked and did the only thing he could do to try getting the gate open! (I can’t recall any video game where wood beat chains, and Jerry strikes me as a gamer pre ZA.)
Bob: Perfect. The hinges may have been weaker. This was one of many scenes where walkers were right on top of them with a ton of dialogue. (I very much appreciate that you bring up the dialogue aspect. It’s pretty damn funny when they do this sort of silliness. It makes me chuckle.)
Bitty: Jerry!!! Noooooooo! He wasn’t thinking about anything other than the King. He was in a moment of do or die. (Yeah, I think his hair did the talking there. You could tell that his head wasn’t fully in the game.)
Brian: he knew his trusty weapon would not let him down and had to save the king.(You gotta save the King or else it’s all for nothing.)
Kristi: He was just trying to get out of there and that was the idea that hatched in his mind. It wasn’t really a sit down to make a solid plan kinda moment. (I read this and laughed because I pictured Ezekiel and Jerry pulling a Zack Morris and pausing the action and sitting down drawing up a plan to stay alive. I think of weird things.)
Chris: That axe was the glue that held the group together……. I don’t even…….. (Brilliant answer that made me legit laugh. Thank you for that.)
Raylene: I believe he was trying to break the chains perhaps figuring it would be easier than breaking the lock. There was really no place for them to go unless Jerry just tossed the king over the fence like a hoss. (Bonus points for saying Hoss, and I would have also enjoyed them showing Jerry toss a dummy of Ezekiel like they used to do in Married With Children.)
Eric: all he was thinking about was saving the king. Weapons come and go in this world. Daryl lost his crossbow numerous times through the series. (This made me wonder, how many crossbows has Daryl gone through and does he keep a supply of arrows at Alexandria?)
Kent: Let’s face it, some of us are better/worse than others in a panic situation. It was clearly a panic situation and it doesn’t strike me that Jerry has been in many situations like this. Now, I am tossing this idea out there, but with Jerry’s strength and and the battleaxe, I kinda thought the better moe was to go for the chain link fencing. It’s been awhile in the ZA, so it seems plausible that he could have hossed his way through the fence that way, or at least had a better chance than the lock and chain attempt. With that being said, I can’t make fun because I panic in stupid video games, so I’d be awful in the ZA.
A lot of us knew that Shiva would meet her demise this season for a variety of reasons. Was this the right time and the right purpose?
Briana: Is there such thing as a right time or reason for that awfulness? It was horrific and had me more upset than most people who got got on this show!! (Yes that was a shout out to your usual verbiage! Lol) But to more directly answer your question, it was as good a time and reason as any other. Ezekiel saved her life and she repaid him. The sounds though man! (What is this emotion that I am feeling? Joy? Pride? I’m just so happy to see you use the got got that you get a gold star.)
Bob: I was just laughing… The show set up sooo many moments where the tiger would rush to the rescue. It was appropriate to kill the tiger BUT I really have a hard time thinking a cornered tiger that weighs 500 lbs could not have just run through or quickly rip apart the walkers. If there is a belief that the tiger died on purpose, stop it now. (If you read my answer, you will see how much I agreed with your assessment. I think of Tyrese taking out like 50 walkers surrounding the car, but this tiger couldn’t handle 8 of them. Please!)
Bitty: Ezekiel saved her, she saved him. Poetic and amazing. I think I was more upset with her death than many characters we’ve lost. What would happen if she got bit but ran away? Would she have turned? (I will not focus on the Disney aspect of your comment, but the question of animals getting bit is something that I don’t think they have yet to really answer. I can’t recall an instance in the comic where it happened. Yeah, you opened Pandora’s Box here. If we think about animalistic nature, it’s to hunt and eat and feed basically, that and to mate. While we have yet to see walkers attempting to mate, we see that their main goal is to feed. Jenner talked about this in the season 1 finale. So how would we know when an animal had “turned”? The usual thing would be to spread the virus, but everybody already has it, except Little Ass Kicker. I wonder, what would be the tell tale signs of say a cat who turned. Would it be meaner like Church was after coming back from being buried in Pet Sematary? Would it walk like it had 15 shots of booze, or would it have a different breathing sound or meow? Yeah, you did not expect me to go this in depth, but these are things I have pondered. Good question. Anybody who is reading this, I’d love to hear your insight, maybe via comment on social media or on the blog post itself.)
Brian: Right time and place. Another false idol getting his due for being a murderous leader. If the king had stayed with the saviors and not joined rick’s coup then him and his subjects would still be alive. (Now I know that some of you don’t agree with Brian’s assessment, but there is something to be said for this theory. I ask later on about whether the Kingdom should have gotten involved. Would The Saviors have kept collecting and basically let the Kingdom live in peace had they just stayed in their lane? I think this is a fine point.)
Kristi: I am very unhappy about this but I think it happened at a good time. He needed Shiva at that moment and although, this is one death that will impact him, I think he needed to be thrown into the reality of what is happening. (I was afraid to message you after this episode.)
Chris: I think it needed to happen to break the king. He’s going to go through his depressed stage now, only for Carol to show him the light. (Isn’t it interesting how Carol really is like the voice of reason, and has been for most of the series. Not the morale compass, but really a voice of reason. After T Dog sacrificed himself for her, I think that was her moment, and I know the Sophia thing also contributed, but the T Dog incident made her go in a closet alone with just her thoughts and since then, she’s been different. Like, she wasn’t wrong in burning the bodies at the prison. She did the right (unpopular) thing.)
Raylene: Yes this seemed to be a fitting way for her to go out saving her handler as he did for her prior to the outbreak. (You’ve known this was coming because I don’t ever not spoil stuff from the comics, but this felt right at least.)
Eric: I would have liked to see Shiva last longer in the series. I think it would have been a good “symbol” for the group. She died saving her master. (I would have liked to see her last longer, but I do believe that it was just as much a budget thing as it was narrative driven. Let’s face it, the show is making cash, but they have so many people to pay. The 100 plus actors, the walkers, all the make up and special effects people, the cost for locking down these places, the cost of having Shiva in more was probably prohibitive.)
Kent: I’m really glad that Bob brought up 2 points that I was going to make. I mean it’s like Thanksgiving with John Goodman, Bob is not leaving me much meat here, haha. We have been told time and time again how the walkers continue to get weaker and weaker, that’s how Rick can kill a whole field on his own without a bite or scratch. Sooooo big bad ass tiger that wouldn’t have an issue taking strong people out is going to get taken out like that? I’m not buying that, and I know that I am supposed to be a good Lil Jimmy and just be happy and play along, but this was silly. The narrative that they tried making this poetic, I get it, and it pulls at the heart strings, as you have read, but this was like some Disney shit, or fast traveling dragons swooping in to save a great group of guys. Are TWD and GoT competing for some silliness award?
This question is brought to you via Brian. Jerry loses his battle axe and the king loses his tiger. Will the loss of their iconic weapons cause them to fall out of character?
Briana: Yes I believe it is sort of an homage to how things will be different for them moving forward. I’m not sure about Jerry, but for Ezekiel, he was already falling out of character before she died. And that will be the last straw for him. He believes now that he’s just a guy who happened to find a tiger and now he has no tiger. (Do you think it will take Ezekiel time to be that public face that he was or will he begrudgingly play the role and just not be very public?)
Bob: The King has his hair. Jerry should wield a sledgehammer next, an upgraded Tyrese character. (I love all 3 aspects of your response, the hair, sledgehammer, and Tyrese. Gold star!)
Bitty: I believe that Jerry will continue his role in the kingdom. If anything the weakening of Ezekiel will make Jerry even more important to him. (Very good point in regards to Jerry being forced to up his game.)
Brian: The king has lost the reason he became the king. He will be torn apart. (One might theorize that a part of him does get torn from him. I can’t say anything beyond that.)
Kristi: Jerry, no. I think Ezekiel will be at a loss but he will rise back up and be stronger because of it. (Yeah, he will rise up again. I am curious, like I asked with Bri, wondering if he will stay in his room for awhile, or go out and try to put on his persona.)
Chris: I doubt Jerry will become less awesome, but losing Shiva will be devastating to Ezekiel. He’s going to believe he is nothing without her. (Yeah, the moment Jerry becomes less awesome, probably the show gets cancelled.)
Raylene: I think for a while the king will lose his way but then the sweet loving of Carol will bring him back and Jerry will remain as he has been. (Will we get a Carol and Ezekiel sexy scene? I would applaud this.)
Eric: Daryl was always Daryl even without his crossbow. The king will still be the king even without his tiger. and jerry can always find another axe. (Eric, that was borderline poetic. Kudos. You’re right, Daryl was Daryl. If you’ve made it this far in the ZA, I feel that your time for mourning is cut by 98% or what we would go through. Great point.)
Kent: I would say that Jerry basically becomes Ezekiel’s next weapon….although if a sledgehammer happened to end up in Jerry’s hands, HHH would approve, and he is the King of Kings. So from one king to another, you cannot go wrong with this weapon. Plus it is much less likely to get stuck like machetes tend to. I think the characters evolve to half assedly answer Brian’s question.
Did you find the opening scene more inspirational or depressing? Please only consider the opening scene and not the whole episode and choose one or the other because yes, it’s both. See how bland that answer is?
Briana: this is a tough one but I’ll have to say depressing! Even if I didn’t know how it ended for them and only saw that scene without anything else. Loved ones leaving to fight a war is depressing regardless of the outcome. (Yeah, the leaving for war thing, I gotta say, the way they filmed this whole opening was incredibly effective in my opinion.)
Bob: Since I have to pick one of those, depressing. It seemed to be a grim and accurate portrayal of the results of war. Ezekiel being in quasi-shock – well Ezekiel got what he deserved for saying we will not lose one of our ranks. (Excellent point about the war aspect. It’s odd to think of somebody from the theater being so outlandish to make such a stupid proclamation. Then I think back to our time doing theater and remember a handful of jacmos that would be that foolish.)
Bitty: It was depressing. Also ummmm electricity? (This isn’t the Stranger Things blog. Although, man a TWD universe with an Upside Down would be fascinating, at least for an episode.)
Brian: its always best to dress well and kiss your loved ones goodbye before you leave to murdert innocents. (Don’t mind me, I’m just over here nodding with a smirk on my face.)
Kristi: Depressing. With the history of the show, I think we all know after a speech like that a certain demise is sure to follow. (It’s like Jax Teller giving a rousing speech before they got to take out the Mayans or Niners, you know if it’s a big speech, somebody is dying.)
Chris: Just depressing. Ezekiel was not prepared for the idea of losing his people, and to lose so many in such a quick fashion set the tone for his breakdown at the end. (Yeah, theater people are not very good kings or generals. I once played the role of a king. I was terrible at it.)
Raylene: To me it was depressing the king was not ready for the way the Saviors fight and other than the two men and kid we see at the gate in the end is the majority of the kingdom left just women? (Yeah, it’s probably similar to the crop of people that Rick’s group brought to the prison from Woodbury. That’s my guess. Also, let’s not forget Nabila, who is a crowd favorite.)
Eric: it was inspiring to see the king rally his people to battle. Like he knew it wouldn’t end well. (If I put myself in the mindset of being a member of the Kingdom, that’s the exact kind of speech I would like to hear before marching off to my impending doom. That’s what I took away from it.)
Kent: Huh, I gotta be honest, I really expected more people to say inspiring rather than depressing. Thanks everybody, except for Eric, for making me incorrect. To me, that speech that he gave, I absolutely loved it. Looking back on this show, it may end up one of my favorite speeches, probably top 3. The Governor raiding the prison is also obviously up there.
Now that we have had an opportunity to meet Gunther and see his demise, do you wish that he maybe had a bigger role prior? Gunther is the Savior who took Ezekiel and stole his blade.
Briana: Eww no! He was a Pervy looking weirdo and I’ve had enough of the psycho saviors at this point! Lol! There are enough solid characters who have the bad guy, creeper dude thing going for him. Not that he was bad for that part, I just don’t know how much of him I could have handled other than that. (Pervy looking weirdo? Check. Creeper? Check. He’s just living the ZA dream.)
Bob: Seriously? What could be a bigger role than being halved by Jerry? (Your answer made me stop in my tracks and reflect on that. You’re not wrong. I think it’s one of the most iconic kills of the show.)
Bitty: I’m sorry I just couldn’t get the image of Napoleon Dynamite out of my head. (Interestingly enough, well you can scroll down and see that you aren’t alone. I prefer the Dahmer reference, but to each their own.)
Brian: no Gunther could have been anyone. The true believers know that together they will survive. They are all negan and that way they use his strength and toughness. To survive. (But could he have been Dahmer’s son? That’s my big question.)
Kristi: I didn’t care for him at all. I’m good with the amount of screen time he received. Less would have been prefered actually. (I kinda thought that you would dig him. He reminded me of somebody that would have been in Devil’s Rejects.)
Chris: He was the last person to die via Jerry’s battle axe! He must have placed a curse on it (Is it safe to say the first and last? Jerry doesn’t strike me as a dude who has killed any living person prior. The curse is real. Hopefully next year during the season, do something like they are with the 30 second videos on the red handled machete, maybe we could get the history of the battleaxe.)
Raylene: I would have like a longer role for him perhaps seeing if he really was mind f****king Ezekiel. (You have spent too much time with me if you enjoyed him. Good for you.)
Eric: little peon fuck. I wanted to watch him die from the first time I saw him (Well, I don’t know if we will get a more aggressive response in this blog, so there is that.)
Kent: Man, i rather liked this guy and thought he did a dynamite job. Judging from the responses, it seems like he did a good job, but people are sick of that character archetype. To nobody’s surprise, I really enjoyed him. Please get him for the next Rob Zombie film, as I think he would do a great job.
Should Carol have let the 2 guys get away with the guns and save Jerry and Ezekiel or focus on the task at hand?
Briana: She did the right thing. You save the people you know you can save instead of hoping to try to save people you still might not save and then still get the other people killed. That didn’t make sense did it? (It makes perfect sense the 7th time you read it.) Lol! If she’d kept fighting with those guys, she may have very easily just ran out of bullets and still accomplished nothing is what I’m getting at here. (Yeah, it could have just turned into a pissing contest.)
Bob: If I were those guys, I would have shot Carol when she ran away to save Ezekiel. Then I would have had Ezekiel for Negan. That only happened to bring Rick and Daryl into the episode. The Humvee chase was a very good scene. (Yeah, I don’t know why they didn’t at least take a shot at Carol. It baffled me.)
Bitty: Should Carol have saved the guns? Hell yes. Two seasons ago Carol would have. Last season Carol would’ve hid and this Season’s Carol has found a balance between being a bad ass and a person with feelings again. (I like where you’re going with this. To add to it, in this scenario, guns equals lives to a degree. We all love Ezekiel and Jerry, but one could easily make an argument that her acquiring those guns and keeping them from Negan could very well save 30 lives. It’s something to think about. Or not, I don’t know. I’m tired. Now I kinda want to switch my answer. I won’t, but I kinda want to.)
Brian: Carol knew that the other murderous duo was waiting to finish what she could not. (DId she definitely know? I was questioning it. Like she knew after the fact, but did she know in the moment? Like the plan didn’t go off without a hitch, so they didn’t have everything exactly timed, there was no official time table, I can’t imagine. It felt like lazy writing that Rick and Daryl conveniently got out of trouble in time to chase down these guys.)
Kristi: I don’t think she really had a choice. Saving Ezekiel was the right thing to do. The Kingdom needs their King and it would have haunted Carol had she let him die. She did the right thing. (You say that it would have haunted her, and I agree with that. Do you think that she needed to do it in some regard to her own mental health? Like she can’t allow somebody to die on her watch if she can do anything about it. I hadn’t considered it, but that’s a solid idea.)
Chris: If she doesn’t save Ezekiel then the kingdom has no leader and will be no help in the war. She made the right choice. However, I agree with other comments that she could have shot the tires out. (So while I agree with you about the tires, I then thought, if she did that, would she have definitely forced their hand to shoot and try to kill her? Then I talked to myself in circles.)
Raylene: Perhaps she could’ve shot the tires out on the vehicles and then saved Jerry and Ezekiel. (Okay, another person for shooting tires out. Note what I said to Chris.)
Eric: in the end, they got the guns. But the writers seem to be taking liberties with the fact that Rick will save the day. (Yeah, just a smidgen with the liberties. I call BS that they timed it that way, but it helps move the narrative along. The logic is very flawed though.)
Kent: I’m still shocked that those guys didn’t at the very least shoot more at her, despite the ammo situation. As you know, I pick and choose odd things to dwell on, this was one. Logically, they had a chance at the king, and even if they knew that, it seemed odd that they took a chance that she wasn’t going to kill them boys. Of course it’s the “right choice” because it played out positively for our group. In a real life predicament, I felt that she was a tad careless. Once again, I am supposed to suspend my disbelief, so I apologize.
While this episode certainly humanized Ezekiel significantly, gave us additional perspective, did it make him a better or worse leader, in your eyes? Also, and this per Brian, with the King being down at the moment, will other characters maintain their role playing within the Kingdom?
Briana: If Ezekiel really lets himself go in this ocean of depression he’s on the edge of, they’re screwed. But I think he will pull himself out! He loves his people and they will show him they still need him and he will do it for them whether he thinks he can or not. (I am hoping that Nabila helps him. She is the chick that we saw last season, and she was super sweet. I hope she gets more shine this season.)
Bob: Ezekiel needs to live by the Fake it till you Make it mantra. He can be down but as a leader he has to resurge and not feel self pity. And not make silly promises like no one will die in war. Yes, I am not done with this dead horse. (Good, keep up the good work on beating the dead horse. I get stuck on certain things and can’t let go, like Daryl and Carol in the ambulance or Glenn and the dumpster, or Rick running through walkers with a scratch or bite.)
Bitty: “Fake it till you make it baby” He’s by far the guy I’d like to hang out with during the apocalypse. (I think that would make for a wonderful question some week when I don’t have enough topics. Hint….hint.)
Brian: I think that now the facade is crumbling and they are not going to make it so stop faking it. His ego has led his cult followers to certain death. (The word facade doesn’t get used enough in this blog and really for this show, facade should be used way more often.)
Kristi: After all is said and done, I think it made him a stronger leader. I liked that he told Jerry he was no King and that he was willing to stay back since he was slowing them down. I think it will make him stronger. It will knock some sense into him that they are not untouchable and have a better grip on reality. I think the people in the kingdom need him as their leader so I don’t think anything will change as far as that goes. (Yeah, if you read my answer, I’m of the same thought. Losses create opportunities to learn and better yourself.)
Chris: I think, in the end, this will make him a better leader. Having to deal with loss will make him stronger. I think the role playing has to continue to keep morale up. (Imagine if they just stopped with the role playing and then out comes Jerry and like he didn’t get the memo. That would be a funny scene at the very least.)
Raylene: I think it just showed him as an inexperienced fighting leader . He did have the best of intentions for his people. Yes people will try to keep their life as normal as possible. (Best intentions, sure. I am surprised that he didn’t have any solid advisors, aside from Carol and the ghosts of Benjamin and Richard.)
Eric: he is the king for a reason. he plays the part and people follow him. other character might “ step up” but he will always be the king (That’s the thing. You can fool so many people that you are something that you are not, which I guess is the fake it til you make it, but it kinda goes deeper than that. Yes, he’s made it, but more importantly, he did so good that people have legit bought into it.)
Kent: I just hit myself in the face with a pillow accidentally and wished to share that knowledge with you. I’m going to compare this a bit to a famous person, and it’s sports related, and I apologize, but the analogy should work. Michael Jordan wasn’t always the greatest. WHat made him great is that he had the natural progression of fighting to make the playoffs, then fighting, in some cases literally fighting to get past the Bad Boy Detroit Pistons who had their own “Jordan Rules” for ways to play MJ. So he failed, it took like 5 seasons before he won his first championship. He was cocky and he is the single most competitive person alive. But losing definitely builds character. Think about school, if you got just one question wrong, if you cared, you looked at what you did wrong and you attempted to learn from that mistake which makes you stronger. To answer Brian’s question, I think the role playing must continue because it is incredibly effective in maintaining order.
A third or half of the Kingdom has been wiped out. In hindsight, should they have gotten involved in this war?
Briana: I still think it was necessary. Without them, they had no chance. And it seems like the plan is working. It’s war. Independence is never gained without casualty. They will rebuild and persevere. (Great line about the independence. I mean, it’s not Bill Pullman great, but it’s very good. I just wanted an opportunity to mention Bill Pullman.)
Bob: Yes. Of course – while they had weapons and confidence. (I think weapons and confidence, especially in this scenario, are equally important, so great point.)
Bitty: Yes. They needed to be involved. They need to survive. If anything they were the most prepared. (I don’t know, those Oceansiders were really well prepared.)
Brian: no they were surviving and even thriving before they were brainwashed by rick and his plot to hide his past. (If anybody expected a different answer from Brian, you haven’t been paying any attention.)
Kristi: Yes. They need to come together and defeat Negan. They should have planned better and had his speech been more realistic, they may have been better prepared though. (I loved the speech, but how many people just went in thinking that they were gonna run this town tonight? How many realists were involved?)
Chris: Of course. Being under Negan’s rule, it was only a matter of time before people died. (That’s something that hasn’t really been tackled well in this show. How much does Negan value the people under him in The Saviors and the groups that work for him? I wish they would delve deeper into his psychology. You can’t just kill all of your suppliers, I mean The Governor would have, but I feel that Negan is smarter than that.(
Raylene: Yes because they would have still been under Negan’s rule (Is that such a bad thing?)
Eric: the numbers were needed. They chose to fight the saviors. it’s better to die on your feet than live on your knees. (Seriously dude, you are coming out with some lines this week. Keep this up.)
Kent: Man, my questions suck this week because everybody is just in unison agreement. When thinking about this, I had to determine what I felt The Kingdom’s main objective was. Is it survival or to grow and rebuild. While I believe it should be to survive, I feel that their objective is to grow so joining this war was the only option. Damnit, I’m agreeing with people. Booooooo.
At no point do you ever really fear for Rick or Daryl’s life and it makes certain scenes a tad silly due to lack of suspense. Should the writers consider pulling a Game of Thrones and killing one of them to truly prove that anybody can die at any time on the show or is it too late in the show for that?
Briana: No. I think what you’re saying makes sense and it would fulfill the storyline more realistically but it’s a show and those are our dudes, man! It’s definitely too late to pull that stunt! (It is too late in the show to do it. Nobody else is big enough to have the impact, but you can’t kill either.)
Bob: That is a jump the shark move if I have ever heard one. Ted McGinley. (Thank you for referencing Ted McGinley.)
Bitty: If either Rick or Daryl die it has to be epic. I don’t think they’ll do it but that would be the only way it’d be acceptable. (They can do it in the final season no problem, but by then, it will have an entirely different meaning. On the plus side, a cleansing is coming next year. There are going to be some sad people in this group.)
Brian: yes but it needs to be believable deaths. Darryl needs to OD or Rick needs to do the right thing and realize that he should end his own life to save the rest of the people that follow him before his selfish ways kill them all. Perfect ending Darryl ods and as rick tries to revive him walker Darryl eats him. (I wish Daryl still had some of Merle’s pills for when he had The Clap. On a related note, ACDC’s song “The Jack” is actually about how he got The Clap, but in Australia, they can refer to it as the Jack.)
Kristi: Yes! It would definitely add suspense to it and give other characters the chance to really shine.(I know that you and I watch a lot of the same shows, so it makes sense for you to be on my side for this one. Nothing will ever hit me as hard as Opie’s death in Sons.)
Chris: I think it would be an amazing idea to kill one of them off. If not one of them, someone really important (Carl/Michener/Maggie.). Rick or Daryl dying would be a legit shock. (I hope you don’t get mad at me for not correcting the typo, but I love how Michonne turned to Michener. I giggled. I still think Maggie would be a huge swerve. If they kill Carl, I am not sure if I would be as loyal of a fan. He’s my favorite character along with Carol. Carol I accept because I have zero expectations moving forward because she has long been dead in the comics, and was awful in the comics. Carl’s character continues to improve in the comics, so I’d hate to see his demise.)
Raylene: That would definitely spice this show up if they kill one of them. (And replace them with Sean Bean.)
Eric: at this point the ratings would tank if Daryl or Rick were killed off. (Yeah, I think that decision now would be the death knell for the show. Had they done in Daryl in season 4 or 5, I think they could have survived it. I don’t think the show could ever survive without Rick. It’d be like that 70’s Show when Eric (Topher Grace) left the show. He was the main component.)
Kent: They are in a damned if they do and damned if they don’t point. I love this show, but I still talk to people who don’t like it or critique it because I still think that perspective is important. It appears to me that one of, if not the biggest complaint is that it is very formulaic and that there are characters that are put in dangerous situations but there’s no suspense because nobody believes that a Rick, Daryl, or Maggie can die. That whole thing worked for Breaking Bad because it was about one main character. And they made it only 5 seasons long. It’s too late to make a positive impact as far as the viewing experience. Still, this is a big reason why Game of Thrones holds more suspense because there are point where you think that Jaime, Tyrion, or even Dany flying on her dragon could get got. That makes that show far more compelling. Also, I want to really say that formulaic is a good term to describe TWD. This season Ezekiel will be depressed and moody, last year it was Daryl, and the season before it was Carol, and so on. There seems to the topic of humanity and where the line is for “too much” as far as defending yourself or group. They are good themes, and completely justifiable given the context, but it does happen a lot, so the nay sayers aren’t wrong. Millennials may refer to them as haters. Don’t be that person.
It appears that we will get to see Eugene next week, but still no Carl. How many more episodes before he makes an appearance and what do you think he will be doing? Have fun with this one people.
Briana: Wow! I honestly forgot about him. How is that even possible? I can’t even remember where he is. He’s back at Alexandria right? (Yes, he should be at least since he’s in charge.) So he’s definitely going to have been prepping for a potential backlash if the troops fail! He’s also dropped Judith on her head and now she’s got a lazy eye! (I think it’s funny how many things and theories I have read about Judith. I have never seen a child character so mistreated by the fans in hilarious ways. She’s doing better than she did in the comics, that’s fo sho.)
Bob: Carl will have made new friends. Much needed friends. We will see him mid-season finale or the finale. (Huh, like dude friends that say Bro way too often, or has he forged an alliance. I need details.)
Bitty: Carl will have strengthened Alexandria. He will have created a system of order and a new reign of warriors. Or he’ll have knocked up Enid. I mean come on now, what’s one more baby in the apocalypse that we’ll never hear from. (Babies aren’t a bother at all in the ZA. Really, the only trouble that Judith caused was when Glenn and Maggie went to get baby formula and Merle captured them.)
Brian: Arl will be at home going through puberty imagining things about his soon to be stepmom. (This is a very realistic thing that people probably cringe at, but it’s totally true.)
Kristi: In the following week. He will be kicking it with his friends, helping them learn to fight. (I seriously hope that he’s made friends. He needs to. I would love to see a Morgan and Carl buddy episode.)
Chris: Wait , that wasn’t Carl riding around with Daryl????? I just assumed he had another growth spurt…. (I laughed and thought that this was brilliant.)
Raylene: Two episodes and he’ll have gone to hillside and gotten Enid pregnant (Man, you girls want Carl to put it to Enid. That’s weird.)
Kent: I love that multiple people thought that he would naturally knock up Enid. I honestly think that Enid may die, but that’s just a theory. I imagine that he is still teaching himself how to drive, maybe do some doughnuts. I also hope that he is training Kent to be a bigger bad ass, providing that Kent is still alive. Also, if he sent out a crew to find Heath, I would be happy.
Last week I should have asked this, but I will ask it now. If you take all characters, both past and present, what would be your dream one on one fight? Bonus points if you choose 2 characters that were alive and relevant at the same time on the show.
Briana: I don’t get the bonus points but I’m going with it anyway bc it would be awesome! Andrea vs Tara! (No, you get bonus points. You are the only person that killed off Tara. That’s worth or 5 gold stars!)
Bob: Shane v. Negan (Thought about it, loved it, I think Shane wins. Negan was, well I don’t want to ruin what Negan was prior to the ZA, but he didn’t have the background that Shane did. I will say this, Negan has an extra gear when it comes to fighting, so this would be fun.)
Bitty: Sofia v Carl. If Sofia had lived this long would she be Carl’s equal? (This was a really great one. So we are assuming that Carol still has learned a lot of shit, except she is also still in mother mode. She will have taught and trained Sophia. I would give Carl the edge because that boy has taken 2 gunshots and still lived, but that would be fun.)
Brian: Hershel vs negan standing on opposite hillsides watching their army’s battle it out. Or negan and the governor one on one. (Would Herschel have both legs? If we are doing season 4 Governor, which I think was his most dangerous, and Negan, I know Negan would have the strength advantage, but Governor was faster thinking and wirey. That’s a damn fine fight. I’m going to take Governor in that one.)
Kristi: Merle and Eugene. (Eugene whoops Merle’s ass, obviously. Merle would go for overhand chop with his knife, but his blade would get stuck in the Tennessee top hat and Eugene would have the advantage.)
Chris: Eugene and Gregory!!!!! There would be so much crying. I would actually like to see Abraham and Shane throw down. (First of all, Gregory seems like the kind of guy that would just try to wear out Eugene, except Eugen would take 2 steps and realize that he’s wasting energy. It would be the worst draw ever, and hilarious. Abe and Shane was my original answer. 2 years ago, I did a bracket tournament of fights between TWD characters, selected at random. This was a match I thought a lot about. I think Shane wins unless Abe gets under his skin with all of his one liners. First to make a mistake loses situation.)
Raylene: Dale and Hershel fighting to be the moral compass of the group (Herschel has a shotgun with unlimited ammo. Dale is afraid to use a gun or to kill people who may kill him and his group. I’d still enjoy this.)
Eric: I would have liked to see Michonne and Maggie fight. I think it would make a cool fight. I also would like to see Rick really fight neegan hand to hand. (I believe Maggie to be a really good shot, but if Michonne closed the gap while Maggie was reloading, then Michonne wins. I think Michonne takes that one, of course it depends on the terrain. If Michonne has nowhere to run, or does she have her sword, does Maggie get a gun. That is a matchup that is dependant on the variables. I think Rick wins against Negan. I have Negan losing every fight suggested. I really wish I could say what he was prior to the ZA. Rick has shown me that he will be as sadistic as possible, and while that may be true of Negan, I don’t think Negan is that great of a thinker on his feet. He is more of a strategist. That’s my take.)
Kent: Tara vs Tyrese, Carl, Daryl, Merle, the Governor, Carol, Abe, T Dog, Enid, Judith, and Negan would be my dream fight. One on one though, I would have liked Rick and Governor to have had a legit one. Andrea vs Maggie would have been fun. I honestly could give you 50 match ups that I would like, but I also watch way too much wrestling. Chris actually took my original answer of Shane vs Abe. That would be something. Merle with both hands vs Abe would be something.
Final Thoughts – Just for fun, what do you think this “plan” is that Rick is hatching with Daryl now that they have those crates?
Briana: I’m digging this season but I won’t lie, 4 episodes and counting on the same day gives me a weird 24 vibe and that’s throwing me off! Ready to get back to Negan and Gabriel’s love trailer!!
Bob: It’s all about the setup and sabotaging.
Bitty: They only have 2 massive guns right? They didn’t take all the cases from the out building?? Who knows what the plan is but I’m thinking they don’t agree.
Brian: get surprised when they realize the guns were damaged during the accident.. remember the gun was setup during the firefight.. so getting crushed by a roll over truck could happen.
Raylene: Arming everyone in the three communities with weapons
Eric: they are gonna decimate the saviors with two .50 cal machine guns. They can do some serious damage.
Kent: I think the plan is to ship Aaron and Jesus….duh. I felt so awful writing that. Any plan I can think of simply amuses me. I could see them wanting to take out the Scavengers and even arm Oceanside as a sign of good faith. We’re going to see Oceanside again, so I guess we have to accept it. I do think Rick should offer Tara to be Negan’s wife so they can have a person on the inside……and then she is made an example of in the most brutal scene in AMC’s history. Please!!!!
All the pictures used in this blog are for review purposes. They are the property of:
Well here we are with our 3rd straight action packed episode of the season. Guys, you can slow it down and give us some Eugene and Carl. That would be nice. Eric and Morales got got this week and Morgan is going a little crazy. Actually, this is a great song. Listen to it while you read. Any comments in bold are made by Kent.
Did you feel that Eric was more than just a background character?
Briana: Not really, no. He was just a way to give Aaron’s character more depth.
Bob: Appeasement to culture. (It actually amazed me how much pandering the comic does for this exact reason.)
Bitty: I think Eric’s character was created to invest more in Aaron. Over the past 2 Seasons WD has tried to make us connect to Aaron. Honestly For Me i couldn’t even remember his name until last year. Now i see Aaron as human and compassionate, I think we’ll see a big Aaron arc because of the loss of Eric. (You and Briana both hit it pretty solidly. He was an Aaron enhancement character. In the world of pro wrestling, Eric was the Brooklyn Brawler. They use enhancement talents to take all of the moves and make another person look dominant, or in Aaron’s case, it gave him a bit more of a dynamic. Plus in some ways it would be kinda weird to have all of these gay characters on the show and have none of them hook up. Now if we can get Rosita and Sherry together…)
Brian: I believe that they are attempting to make us like the band of murders. And if Aaron truly loved him he would not have allowed him to join the herd. And that may come back to bite him in the ass… hopefully literally lol (Brian is pro ass biting. We haven’t seen that in the show yet…..so maybe he’s on to something.)
Kristi: He was always a background character for me.
Raylene: No Eric was precisely that a background character. He wasn’t given much of a story other than being a househusband to Aaron. Poor character development on TWD part (Very poor. He was sadly better on Talking Dead than he ever was on TWD.)
Kent: I felt that he was more of a character in the comics. I didn’t really like Eric on the show and it was because he was rarely given much to do. I would consider him more of a background character than a Tobin or Dianne.
Will Aaron raise Gracie? If not him, then who?
Briana: I didn’t get the impression he wanted to keep her, just that he wanted to get her to the Hilltop. (Alas, I think you and Bitty are probably closest to the right answer in that he gets her there and she is perhaps never mentioned again. I will say this, if I could get 10 – 1 odds on Gregory stealing Gracie and bringing her back to Sanctuary to get in Negan’s good graces, I would totally toss $10 down.)
Bob: It’s going to have to be Aaron. (It appears that we are in the minority here in this belief. Just keep it in mind so when it happens, we can do victory dance together.)
Bitty: Hopefully Gracie will fall to the background at the Hilltop. Someone there will raise her. (Gracie will make for a wonderful background character. Probably better than Eric.)
Brian: Carol and Morgan raise grace as their own. After Carol uses her feminine powers to set him straight. (I really do like this idea, but I fear for Morgan, so I am still on the Carol and Daryl train while also acknowledging the moment that Carol and Daryl decide to be romantic, one has to die that season.)
Kristi: I don’t think so. It seems like he’s just at a loss and wants to help in some way. Carol or Maggie will probably raise her. (As long as Carol teaches her how to cook and tell scary stories, I am sold.)
Raylene: I can see perhaps Maggie and Enid raising her. Although for a long shot Daryl getting her he did bond with Little Ass Kicker and was very invested in finding Sophia (The Daryl thing would be nice in it’s own way. He really took to Judith and him and Aaron have ate together. Just sayin’.)
Kent: I can come up with scenarios in which Enid, Carol, Tara, or a lesser known character takes her, but I think it’s going to be Aaron, and perhaps another gentleman down the line with magnificent hair and dreamy eyes…..Eugene. OK, I went too far. (You went too far.)
Do you think that Rick and Daryl will start conflicting over Daryl’s new ways of shooting first and asking questions later?
Briana: No. Darryl was right to shoot him and his explanation made perfect sense. This is what they came to do and Moralez would have killed them no problem if he’d not been told to spare Rick. (I would have liked to know if Moralez would have still bored Rick with his 3 page monologue if he wasn’t waiting for backup. These are questions I want answered.)
Bob: Daryl killed the guy for having another gun I thought…? (Nah, you’re right.)
Bitty: Yes. You could feel the setup for that in their final scene. I’m dreading their demise. (Demise? At worst they will have a heart to heart and get interrupted by something inane.)
Brian: Rick is starting to realize that he is killing his former business associates. And Darryl is a junkie who is trying to keep his drug use at bay by killing those associated with his old dealers. (THis all really makes a lot of sense week to week. I love the story arc.)
Kristi: No. Darryl is taking care of business. Kill now, worry later. They have seen so many people turning on them. Why take the chance? (There is zero reason to take the chance, but there’s always going to be the question of where’s the line. The reality is that there is no line. No true moral compass exists. They just bring us back to that every season for conflict amongst characters. This has been happening every single season, and I bet if you spend 3 minutes thinking, you can remember them. Off the top of my head: 1 the CDC should I stay or should I go decision, 2 Dale & Shane with Randall, 3 What to do with the prisoners, 4 Rick trying to teach Carl when it’s ok to kill, 5 Glenn and Rick in Noah’s neighborhood, 6 Rick and Porch Dick, 7 Oceanside.)
Raylene: Perhaps once the war is over then Rick will start to question Daryl’s motive but because of Daryl being held hostage by Negan he wants all Saviors to pay (I don’t know if Rick can be the one who questions it. That’s the problem. Maggie sure as hell won’t. This is kind of a bad story idea I think. Hopefully they avoid this.)
Kent: It seems like it is building up with all the things that Rick is seeing and doing. There was the guy that Carl left food for, Gracie and then Morales, and I am sure that I am missing others. Still, it’s war and Daryl is doing the smart thing. This will be a discussion at some point, but they do something similar seemingly every season. Some years Rick is overly sensitive and then Daryl is, and in season 10 Negan will be the hooker with a heart of gold. Yeah.
Did Morales’ monologue alter your opinion or viewpoint of the Saviors?
Briana: No. I can understand the perspective is different for them and that they think they’re justified in what they have to do to survive. But perception doesn’t always make you right. In the end, they’re forcing people to starve and struggle for their own benefit. That’s not ok. (It is kinda silly that we don’t get a good perspective of what other groups have done to survive aside from from bits and pieces. They have made sure to tell us a lot about the Saviors though just so there is a big neon flashing sign above their HQ saying “These are the bad guys!!!! All groups have done some less than desirable things I would speculate, although the Kingdom seemed to do well.)
Bob: Not in the least. I just don’t like Negan, the folks are probably okay. (Is it because of Negan’s posture?)
Bitty: No. kill them all. I wish we heard more bout his time after leaving the original group. (Yes, that’s all I wanted from him is his travels from season 1 to now. We all get the Savior’s perspectives. Whether we agree or not is always an entirely different thing. I would have enjoyed the opening video being of Morales’ voyage. I could have done with one less gun fight.
Brian: not at all. The saviors are taking people in and as long as they follow the rules they are allowed to create a home and have a successful life. Unlike the band of killers that is wandering through the countryside murdering anyone who is unlucky enough to cross their paths. (I wish TWD would have done a fake 30 infomercial to advertise this season with Negan walking us through Sanctuary and talking about how he takes people in, like those feed the starving kids or any of the sad Sarah Mcla…… whatever her name is with the pet commercials. That would have been such a good advertisement.)
Raylene: No that didn’t change my opinion of them but they are starting to show case that some of the Saviors are there because the choice was taken out of their hands it’s either join or die (In a lot of cases, whether it’s said or not, whether the Saviors tell a person or group that, it is often join a group or die. Just because they are bold enough to say it, I don’t think that’s a horrible thing.)
Kent: No, it certainly didn’t. I know that I am in the minority, but I still don’t think of the Saviors as the bad guys when looking at it objectively. If anything, it further cemented my belief that if this show started off with Negan and showed us his journeys, he would be held in the same esteem as Heisenberg from Breaking Bad.
In the grand scheme of The Walking Dead, which character had the bigger impact: Morales or Eric?
Briana: Morales was definitely more intense in the moment for us viewers but for the basis of the show, it would be Eric. The grief Aaron will deal with and the group’s grief. Morales was just there for a minute and then he wasn’t. (Aaron’s character arc moving forward will really be a testament to which answer is right here. As we know, some deaths are more meaningful than others. Poor TDog.)
Bob: Eric. He had air time on the show. And culture. (Pop culture!)
Bitty: Eric had a bigger impact. Not during his life but during his death. (What a terribly lame ass death for Eric though. He got the shaft and then he got screwed over in his zombie scene.)
Brian: Morales. He got to Rick and showed him the errors of his ways. Eric was just a ploy to get us to think that the ricktards are kinda human. And if they truly liked Eric they would not of let him wander off. In the past the characters who meant something were not allowed to wander off. (Okay, that is a huge point. Nobody who mattered has ever been left to wander once bitten. I was actually surprised it took this long for somebody to say it.)
Kristi: Morales. Eric was boring for me. (He never got a chance to shine and his personality was laid back and whiny.)
Raylene: I have to say Morales because he had more character development in the first episodes of the show (Morales was actually kinda cool and a bad ass fighter in the few scenes we got of him.)
Kent: Morales had more dialogue, but fueled nobody. Eric’s death has unleashed Aaron to hopefully become the great character that he is in the comics. Aside from Eugene, I would say that Aaron may also get a good strong story.
Should Maggie have let Gregory back in Hillside?
Briana: I wouldn’t have! I’d have let him stay out and fend for himself or go back to his buddy Negan. (Would that have been better than keeping him in your line of sight?)
Bitty: Yes. He’s just a worm who Maggie may be able to use as a smoke screen in the future. (I don’t mind this theory.)
Brian: Yes he will be able to liberate the POWS and allow the return to their home after eradicating the evil enemy that is occupying their home.(We don’t see the word eradicating enough in this blog. Thank you for bringing it back.)
Kristi: No. I just cant stand him and sure as hell don’t trust him! (boooo) (haha)
Raylene: Yes Maggie will make some use out of him (Like having Gregory and Jesus do entertaining 2 man shows for the Hilltop? Sold!)
Kent: Yes! Gregory is surely sorry and he sounded contrite. Let’s face it, Gregory is one of the 2-3 funniest guys on the show along with Simon and Eugene and sometimes Negan. We NEED Gregory around as much as possible. Gregory made me giggle a lot Sunday night and I need some levity in the midst of all the wasted ammo. In all seriousness, how did nobody suggest that she take him in to kill him? He’s a huge threat inside and out, so just get rid of him before he does more damage.)
Were you hoping that Morgan would kill the Saviors that escaped?
Briana: Yes!! Jesus is getting on my nerves the last couple episodes. I mean that was a kick ass fight scene but Morgan was right. These people aren’t going to just assimilate to their society after they’re no longer prisoners. (In theory I would say that your right (and I did accidentally type write the first time), but my fear is that you will take umbrage with what happens on the show in a very unrealistic way. Hopefully I am wrong.)
Bob: It seemed like he was going to, but I don’t like it when he is nuts. (I love how Lennie does the performance, but I do like Morgan more when he is grounded because I feel like it makes him tougher.)
Bitty: yes that was my thought however the fight between Jesus and Morgan was the best match up in a long time. (So I just sat here thinking about best fights in the show’s history and am kicking myself in the nuts for not asking everybody’s favorite fight scene in the show’s history. Probably next week I will ask. I am trying to think of good ones and the best I can think of is Rick vs Shane season 2, Rick vs Porch Dick Season 5 or 6, Glenn vs Nicholas, Michonne vs Governor, and I feel like Merle was in one or 2. Super Daryl doesn’t count. Also, Tyrese vs Rick and Daryl simultaneous!)
Brian: No and I’m glad that our turncoat Jesus beat him down to save the lives of those pour souls. That are being held against their will. (Right? Nobody is thinking about all the families that are being torn apart by this.)
Kristi: Yes! Do away with them. They are just going to end up being a bigger problem in the future. (You may not like where this is going. Sheer speculation on my part.)
Raylene: I wanted him to at least get Jared because let’s face it he’s going to cause trouble sooner than later (I think that if they executed Jared, it would have helped keep everybody else in line. But no, I do not want Jared dead. He is one of the best characters on the show.)
Kent: Absolutely! I love the killing machine version of Morgan. Even more so, crazy Morgan is amazing. He snaps, and I truly admire the job that Lennie James has done with this character. Keeping those Saviors alive is not a bargaining chip, it’s simply a liability. I understand the endgame for when the war is over, but I wouldn’t risk it.
Is there any benefit to keep the Saviors alive, per Jesus’ plan?
Briana: I mean maybe if Negan wants to make a deal for hostages but even that isn’t a big enough benefit to actually keep them. I say they went to kill them all, kill them all! (That’s something that I feel is overlooked. Negan would make some kind of deal to get his men back because they are the backbone of his operation, especially with so many casualties. I hope that this gets brought up in show. I doubt it will.)
(Yeah, nobody is topping that response. Fantastic.)
Bitty: If i try to see the war from Jesus’ viewpoint maybe some of the Saviors want out. Maybe they can be used for good in the future. (Really, that is the whole crux of Jesus’ beliefs is that some people had no choice and would like to have one when ALL OUT WAR is finished. You’re welcome AMC.)
Brian: Of course Jesus is a plant by Negan to spy on the Ricktards. He is helping save the saviors. (I’ve got to say, that would be a stroke of genius. A stroke of Jesus’ lovely hair.)
Raylene: Perhaps the ones that were just the workers not the henchmen (Soooo, how are you going to find out who was who? Are they going to confess?)
Kent: Yeah, so that they have characters to run the Sanctuary after the war. That’s the real answer. In the moment, hell no.
Was Ezekiel too arrogant or cocky for his own good?
Briana: Maybe but I like to think he was more just impossibly optimistic rather than cocky. It made me so sad watching all of his men jump on top of him, taking his bullets. He definitely celebrated too soon. They should have checked the building before hanging around as if it were over. (I especially didn’t enjoy seeing the ginger dude die. This is becoming a serious epidemic of back to back seasons with a ginger death.)
Bob: Yeah, he rode that wave a little high. “Not lose one of our ranks.” Stick to victory – because by saying you won’t lose anyone, that means you lost and the mentality of your group.. Or the morale will decline. (This felt like me saying “Not one single goal allowed to the Disciples, let’s shut em out 92-0. Then The Disciples score the first goal and I hang my head in shame.)
Bitty: No. I don’t think he was being arrogant at all. He was playing a role. He was being a leader. He was acting. However everyone has a breaking point. (Yeah, I do believe that he was doing what he could and thought was right, especially in his role. People can easily forget that this was just a dude who worked at a zoo a few years ago.)
Brian: The “King” is leading his flock to slaughter. His gut knows that life was simpler when they were helping Negan and the Saviors lead a peaceful life. Now he’s in way over his head and is way past the point of no return. (Let’s consider that. It did seem like life was way more peaceful prior to Carol and Morgan showing up. Is Carol playing the role of Yoko here?)
Kristi: Nope. He has a tiger and is considered a King! He should be arrogant. (I was getting worried as you hadn’t mentioned Shiva all blog.)
Raylene: No he was neither just very inexperienced in fighting with the Saviors (He doesn’t strike me as a guy that ever got into more than one fight his whole life prior to the ZA.)
Kent: Yeah, definitely arrogant and complacent. The rules of war and horror are very similar. Boasting in any capacity will get you got. Still, I love to hear him. Carol is still the smart one.
Pick a character that doesn’t get much screen time that you would like to see or hear more of this season.
Briana: Negan! It irritates me that he hides during most of the crazy shit that goes on! Come out coward and fight like the man you pretend to be! Lol! (I’m all for more Negan time. I do like him though, so for me it’s without the negative connotations.)
Bob: Simon.(YES! We all deserve a bit more of Simon.)
Bitty: Oceanside!! (I may have said this just to humor a certain Kball) (Well since you did this with your boob out, I will let this slide. Bonus points of breastfeeding! I also dread going back to Oceanside, but I feel that it is inevitable.)
Brian: Eugene… he knows….. he knows what Rick truly is…. Abraham told him during their many lonely nights together… he knows all…. (I agree that Eugene reads everyone incredibly well. While I did say that this would be his season, it may not be in effect until the second half. We need more of the Tennessee Tophat!)
Kristi: Eugene and Negan. This season is about them taking him down. I would like to see more of them. (So you don’t want 4 more hours of gun fights? AMC disagrees!)
Raylene: Jadis and her people (Well if we don’t get more of her, you can always watch The Badlands again, or The Woman, or The Exam, or I think she was in Tales From Halloween. I really like her as an actress.)
Kent: Dianne is my answer here. I could go for more insight on Gavin, Tobin, and Arat.
With 13 remaining episodes of this season, how many of them will be these episodes with lots of gun fights that resemble an action flick?
Briana: I would say at least ⅓-½ of them! They’ve been hyping this up to be the most action packed season in a long time so I’m holding them to it! Lol! (It appears that they don’t intend on letting you down.)
Bob: Ugh, too many….. (Seriously, doesn’t it feel like the first 3 episodes has just been one long action film and not much else?)
Bitty: We will have action episodes thru mid season. (That makes me a saaaad panda.)
Brian: I hope that it continues to be exciting but they need to be more realistic. The gun fights seem to be designed by the left wing that believes semi automatic firearms never need reloading and each magazine holds an infinite amount of bullets. (Say what??? This is nothing new. I present to you this gem.)
Kristi: 8. Wishful thinking here. (Yike, that worries me.)
Raylene: 4 (4 is not your friend.)
Kent: 5 is my answer.
Briana: What’s happening with Negan and Gabriel!!!??? It’s making me crazy that they left it the way they did and haven’t gone back yet! Also, I hope Morgan doesn’t go too far! I’m pretty concerned for his well being at this point and if he wanders off for too long, he may not come back.
Bitty: Favorite Quotes of the episode:
“Officer Friendly died right along with them” Morales “We’re the same. Everybody turns” -Morgan “I did not eat those pancakes!”-Gregory (Gregory was so great in that bit of his. Also always glad to hear somebody say Officer Friendly. I miss Merle.)
Brian: Here are my thoughts.. Negan was distributing the blue meth on the east coast. Rick and Abraham were part of the distribution network. Ezekiel was also part the network selling to the theatre crowd and stealing animal tranquilizers. Jesus is an undercover agent who worked with the DEA to bring down Negan but has grown to realize that Negan has provided order during the chaos and is a respectable leader. Now this blue meth is the secret to stopping this virus. So the fight is on to find Jesse to save the planet. (Wasn’t Rick already boning Jessie? Oh, wrong Jesse. Nope, your story checks out.)
Raylene: Where the hell is Eugene?
Kent: I want to see Gregory with his own show or do a spin off. Something. The guy is just so damn charismatic. He’d be the perfect wrestling manager for the bad guys. Starting next week, I hope to be getting questions from the contributors of this blog to add some dimensions to what you read. Also, if you go to IMDB, I find the pics that they are using for Ep 4 and 5 to be a tad odd. Go there at your own risk, but it is kinda odd to say the least.
We are back to dissect “The Damned” which featured the return of the loveable…..or totally forgotten character named Morales, and lots and lots of action. We need plot development damnit! Today, we have a nice lineup of featured commentators, and I thank them for their time and sacrifice. There’s a theory that every time somebody answers a question at 9Deuce.com, a spider dies. So keep up the exxxxxcellent work. Any comments in bold is from Kent.
Should we start fearing for Morgan’s life after he made his declaration?
Briana: Well yeah! That was my first thought! He’s dead now bc he said he doesn’t die! Lol! Plus, it feels a little like Glen to me. Reminiscent of the dumpster maybe dead thing and then he’s not dead and then he gets killed! (Please…..pretty please, let’s never have another dumpster incident that makes zero sense ever again.)
Bob: No. Morgan has a true war mentality. You can be the most effective killer with the belief that you yourself cannot die. (That’s just like me playing Deathrow against the Convicts….well close.)
Bitty: I really feel like as long as Rick is alive so will Morgan be. They keep each other grounded. (Rick can’t die. It’s in Andy’s contract.
Brian: Nope that man is a ghost living amongst the mortals. (That was damn near poetic.)
Kristi: I’m worried for him. Why did he have to go and say Morgan doesn’t die!? (As I noted in my response, Andrea says something similar in the comic and it becomes somewhat of a mantra for her and Rick, so I think that’s why he said it. I miss Eastman.)
Chris: I’m not sure. I like Morgan as a character. He’s so conflicted. I’m hoping that if he does end up dying that he finds some kind of peace. (I don’t think Morgan gets enough credit as one of the better done characters, and of course Lennie James is a great talent.)
Raylene: I say yes unfortunately that was a pretty bold statement to make. He lives with his demons daily and at times he was the moral compass. (Moral compasses do well in TWD. Just look at Gabriel saving Gregory!)
Eric: He knows his time is limited. But he doesn’t act impulsive. (I like that so many of things he does seem rationalized, like he at least thought before doing.)
Kent: Well, in the comic, Andrea said something similar. She lasted a hell of a lot longer than Morgan did in the comics, as he would already be gone. So natural instincts suggest that he’s a goner at some point this season. I think he still has 1 or 2 full seasons ahead of him. When the quiet ones come, then I will start worrying.
Should we start to fear for Eric’s life or will he be fine?
Briana: Again, another one I totally expected to die in the episode. It would be really sad but that’s why it will probably happen.(We haven’t had a sad death in a while. We are totally due!)
Bob: Oh, dead. Deader than dead. He was dead at his inception of the show. (You’re right. If you look through the history of the show, there’s been a handful of people that were instantly identifiable as one borrowed time. I always felt that way with Noah, Dale, Bob, Otis, and so many more. By the way, I have seen Otis in 2 things this past week: Stranger Things season 2 and The Devil’s Candy which also starred Ethan Embry who played Carter in TWD. )
Bitty: Dead. And probably Aaron too. (Aaron will be fine. Jesus needs a man in his life unless they plan on turning Daryl’s character gay.)
Brian: yup hes a goner.
Kristi: He will probably live. I feel like them making seem like he will die means he is going to live. (You and Chris are of the same mindset, which I find surprising, but I am all for something surprising to me, like the Scavengers turning. Surprises are great!)
Chris: I have a feeling he’s going to pull through. This seems like one of those “Walking Dead” things where they make you think someone is going to die, only for them to miraculously survive. Eric also needs more screen time so that people become more invested in him, otherwise his death won’t mean much. (The odd thing is that somebody like Tobin has had more, and better screen time than Eric, who is definitely a more important character in my opinion. Also, where the hell is Kent? I haven’t seen him all season.)
Raylene: I don’t think Eric is made for the combat life. Scouting may be more his thing. I think he’ll die if he has to be fighting more. (He is a better scout, but Aaron is such a better recruiter. I wish they had done more with his character, as Chris mentioned.)
Eric: Gut wounds are very hard to treat without modern technology. He can bleed out very fast. He is most likely a goner (I know that this is an odd tie in, but there was a film in 93 called A Perfect World. It was really good, at least to me, and had Kevin Costner and Clint Eastwood. My point is, in the film, there is a gun shot to the belly and your comment reminded me of that.
Kent: He dead. This is kinda spoiler-ific, so skip to the next question if you don’t want my theory. I won’t be offended. In the comic, they did a scene where Abe’s woman, Holly, ended up getting caught during this assault on Sanctuary. Negan brings her back, and she has a sack over her head. When they remove the hood, Denise is busy patching up Heath. Holly then bites Denise and she tends to Heath’s wound before dying. Soooooo, with that knowledge, it is very easy to see something similar play out. Gabriel gets returned with a bag over his head and he ends up biting somebody who is tending to Eric’s wound, let’s say and hope it is Tara.
Whose side were you on between Tara and Jesus?
Briana: I hate to ever agree with Tara’s dumbass but definitely her. We’ve learned from our mistakes here people. If you go to a place to kill everyone, you kill everyone dammit! (That was the most mean spirited reply about Tara, so you definitely got a point.)
Bob: In this world on the show, Tara. POWs take resources and manpower which the Axis of goodness does not have. I would bet this is part of Negan’s plan. Also, like any POW, you are to resist and attempt escape to keep enemy resources from being used effectively. (I loved how you put this into some real perspective. That is the type of critical thinking I enjoy. You are spot on here.)
Bitty: Tara! Take them out. Anyone at an outpost is more than a “worker”. (I gotta disagree here. I definitely feel that there are people who are simply workers because it’s that or Lucille. Look at Oceanside…or don’t. Fudge that place!)
Brian: Tara.. KILL THEM ALL Jesus is too soft. (I feel that you would be a good apocalypse companion. I would not be.)
Kristi: I dont care for Tara but Im on her side here. Jesus is being way too emotional about this. They would have no problem taking them out. I think they need to think the same way. (Have we gotten past the whole point of having some humanity? I would say yes, but it’s a good talking point nonetheless.)
Chris: This is tough. I agree with both of them in some regards. It would seem smarter to just kill the Saviors. (Jesus does have a valid point. I’m actually surprised that nobody here sided with him. )
Raylene: I have to say I agree with Tara killing them is just the way to go (She was good on Talking Dead though after.)
Eric: In that instance, Tara. They were there to clear the building and take no hostages. Jesus was in the wrong and it almost got both of them killed. (Much like Morgan, I enjoy the term clear.)
Kent: This was the meanest thing that I have done to any of you. I asked a question that practically forced you to agree or take Tara’s side. Kudos to Bri for calling her a dumbass.
How excited are you to see Morales back?
Briana: I wouldn’t say excited but I am definitely intrigued! It took me a minute to realize who he was and then I had to explain it to the rest of my house. He doesn’t seem to have any loyalty to the original group though so I’m interested to see where this leads. (I also had to explain. I wish they would elaborate on the Vatos some day, but the deleted scene in the season 2 opener did explain it.)
Bob: I forgot about him.
Bitty: Who? Now you know I’m not the only one who had to google him then re-watch his episode to remember him. I’m excited to hear his back story and where he’s been.
Brian: It plays well with my point of view that Rick was a dirty cop under Negan’s control and now there maybe someone else who knows Rick’s secret. (I really do love this theory.)
Kristi: I have a hard time remembering characters, so I really don’t remember him.
Chris: I’m excited, but I’m curious how many people remember him. A friend of mine who has watched every season didn’t remember him. I’m sure we’ll get some backstory next week. (I really would enjoy a backstory for him and his family. I always wished that we had gotten more stories on certain characters, and he was gone from the show before they could elaborate. I always wanted more on Milton, Shumpert, and T Dog.)
Raylene: Sure let’s see how this stuff plays out I am curious if it’s just him or if the wife and kids have survived.
Eric: I was for a split second. But his actions kinda ruined it. I hope he reconsiders his turncoat ways. Though his actions do bring up the “ Rick is the villain” thought (it’s all about perspective. I actually don’t think that they can ever give us Negan’s backstory for fear of having too many fans empathize with him.)
Kent: Hell yeah I was excited! I know some of you feel that he is kinda betraying Rick, but he’s not from my perspective. He was part of a group and knew Rick for like 3 days. Technically, it was Shane’s group or Dale’s at the time. Now it is Rick’s group, but at the time, Rick was just another father and husband. We all have a certain amount of affinity towards Rick, well maybe not Brian, but that shouldn’t skew our perspective of how things played out back then.
Did it seem like Mara allowed that walker to just bite her without any fight whatsoeve?
Briana: A little bit, yes. It was like she realized, they’ve won and just gave into it.
Bob: I blame tonic immobility and panic.
Bitty: Yes. I think she knew her jig was up.
Brian: She realized that she was caught in the trap and the only way out was to join the herd
Kristi: It did seem like she allowed it. You see her hand kinda grab his arm, as if she is accepting it.
Chris: I think she just didn’t see it in time. By the time she saw it, it was already on top of her.
Raylene: Yes she was looking around realizing what was happening I figured she’d been more alert of her surroundings
Eric: I think that she was so shocked with the tactic of letting her friends turn to walkers, she didn’t have proper time to react. Plus I don’t think she was a true fighter like the rest of ricks group
Kent: I agree with most of you to varying degrees. Some of you seem to think that it was more her giving up or accepting her fate, and others think of it was a shocked or delayed reaction due to everything happening on the spur of the moment. I really thought that she was beyond overwhelmed mentally and she simply froze and by the time she could react, what was the point? Almost in too deep. I watched the death like 8 times. Don’t judge me.
Is it smart to take all of these Saviors as prisoners?
Briana: Of course not! Again, we’ve been down the prisoner road with people like them and it just doesn’t work. They are brainwashed into thinking this is how life is supposed to be now and I don’t think they can change many of them from that belief. (Seriously, how many times have we gone down this road? I can offer multiple instances, but aside from Michonne, Axel, the black prisoner dude who I really liked, Aaron, and Jesus, prisoners haven’t been great. Randall comes to mind.)
Bob: Not at all. Tiger food. (Shiva approves this message.)
Bitty: Hell no. I don’t like the idea. Unless there is another plan for them. (I would be intrigued if it was a good plan. Then I look back to the people that they took in from Woodbury and then think, wow, they are all dead! Plans tend to fail in this show.)
Brian: I like the idea. It gives my man Negan and his innocent people the ability to have friends behind the enemy lines. (I am very curious about your perspective on Eugene with Negan. We need to talk soon and have a few drinks.)
Kristi: They should just take them out. I don’t think them having that many people that are against them around is wise. Just a big group that can plot against them. (This group should know better. Look how well Terminus went. They should all be dead, but Gareth and the Termites were stupid and it’s like history repeating itself, only it’s with “our group”.)
Chris: I don’t think so. The saviors are very dangerous and deceptive. While they may have helpful info, I doubt they will be very sharing. (Right? If you were captured, honestly, you are probably a happy Savior working and obeying the rules and surviving. Then Rick’s jerkoff group shows up and ruins everything.)
Raylene: Nope kill them all (Even Jared?)
Eric: Hostages only complicate things. Anyone showing aggression needed to be put down. These people already showed what they can do. (How often do hostages truly help somebody? I wish there was some statistical analysis. If TV and films are any indication, you almost always get caught or die when you bring hostages into play.)
Kent: Unfortunately, while there are probably some who would be happy to work towards a happy common goal, the way that this has gone down, they can’t ever trust Rick’s group. So stab them all, no bullets because they used all of them on Negan’s windows like morons.
Will Jared (the long haired guy that has long antagonized people and is in Gavin’s group and used to mess with Richard) make it to the midseason finale alive?
Briana: Well even after your description and googling him, I can’t figure out his role in all this so I’m going to say no, he won’t lol! (Sorry, I tried my best to describe him, but I didn’t do a great job.)
Bob: Yes, and he will even kill someone important contrary to some orders or expectations. (I can see him taking out Morgan, Diane, or even Shiva. Boy, that would piss some people off, myself included. I really like Diane.)
Bitty: Are we really talking midseason finale? Didn’t this season just begin? How many episodes in this season… and no hopefully he’ll go down in next episodes walker raid. (There are 8 episodes per half season. Two have gone past, so he has 6 more to live or die for the question.)
Kristi: I don’t think so, but I’m often wrong so probably. (That’s pretty much my luck and thought process, so you are not alone.)
Chris: I sure hope not. I didn’t think he was going to live through that scene! (I was so engaged in the show that I was convinced that he was going to get got by Morgan. It makes more sense for him to live to be the spokesman for the hostages.)
Raylene: Nope I don’t think he will I believe Morgan may even get the kill (I hope so. Morgan deserves it in a way to do it in honor of Benjamin.)
Eric: I think he needs to go away. He had already caused enough problems. And will only prove to be a danger in the future (Some people just don’t deserve to live, in my opinion, and this dude really doesn’t deserve to, which is why he’s a good character I suppose.)
Kent: Jared seems like he will get got by some unforeseen circumstances. Not by Morgan or Ezekiel, but random walker attack. I think when he des die, it will feel incredibly satisfying and therapeutic to most fans.
This was a fairly action packed episode. Did it feel exciting for you or rather dull?
Briana: A little of both, I get that it was intended to be exciting but it was mostly a bunch of shooting that led to no where so part of me was quite dissapointed. Loud does not equal exciting! (I agree with you. If we knew more of Negan’s people then a shoot out is exciting. Right now it’s like watching Han Solo shooting a bunch of nameless Storm Troopers. We have no real reason to care about these people living or dying.)
Bob: A second episode where I could choose to stop watching. The hammer-cock at the end had zero effect and impact. Anyone can disarm a guy with a gun that close, FYI. (I was wondering that same thing about the disarming. It seemed a tad sloppy, but this wouldn’t be the first time that the show got sloppy. Carol and Daryl in the falling ambulance is still the funniest one.)
Bitty: I’m a fan of the action of course but looked at the clock 31minutes in and was shocked how fast the episode was going!! I hate when the episode is slow but hate when it flies by. I have trouble finding a middle of the road episode. (It went by way too fast in my opinion. I dread checking my watch when viewing the show.)
Brian: Dull. Rick is a basket case and will let his desire to hide his past lead him to his death at the hands of Carl. (We really need to get you writing some TWD fan fiction.)
Kristi: I enjoyed it. It was exciting.
Chris: Tons of action! It was great to see a lot of the lesser known characters get into the action. (I will say, I really did like to see some of the lesser characters get some shine, especially Eric. I don’t like his character too much, but someone like Tobin and Francine got to shine. Unfortunately, so did Tara.)
Raylene: I know they have to build up the story line but I have been rather bored
Eric: it was. I enjoyed it. I wish they were all like this. (I think it is fair to assume that Eric enjoys action flicks.)
Kent: I felt that this was too much action for a follow up to the action from the season premiere. The pace is too much and not in a good way like Game of Thrones was. With so many characters, if we are going to have action packed episodes, lots of people need to die so they don’t have to tell as many stories. I liked it, but could go for some episodes where they do 3 different stories throughout. That is when it flows at it’s finest.
Do you like it when Ezekiel is playing his king role or when he goes out of character briefly?
Briana: It is nice to see him laid back once in a while but I think at this point, the king is who he is. I think the people we pretend to be are the people we want to be deep down. And after a certain point, it’s no longer an act. So as much as I enjoy laid back Ezekiel, Long Live The King Y’all! (Thank you for including the y’all. It was needed and appreciated.)
Bob: Fake it til you Make it. I love it!! (That’s been Russell’s mom’s motto from the beginning. It had to be said.)
Bitty: LOVE IT! We immediately rewound it twice just to hear him. Team Ezekiel all the way. (Team Ezekiel? The hell is this? You going to say #EzekielStrong next?)
Brian: This show is full of people playing different people to hide their pasts. I wish others would be as honest as he is. (I really loved this response and now I don’t even like my response.)
Kristi: Both! He is the shit! What ever role he is in, I am always happy to see him on the screen. (You’re right. He is an absolutely delight to watch. In a show full of great acting talent, he still stands out in a positive way.)
Chris: I like both. Those moments when he drops his character just make him better. He’s the best character on the show! (I can’t argue with that. I am still incredibly fond of a few others slightly more like Carl, Carol, and Morgan, but still, he’s in the conversation, so that speaks volumes. I hope that h is around for a good amount of time.)
Raylene: I do enjoy when he shows both sides (He does both in such interesting ways.)
Eric: I like him in his “King “ role. I feel when he breaks character, it kinda ruins the fantasy he has built. (I have been trying to figure out if he is doing it to charm Carol or if he does it because he knows that Carol sees through it.)
Kent: I will say the King role because with that comes Jerry, and Jerry is fucking awesome.
Will we see “Super Daryl” next week?
Briana: Hmmm.. I hadn’t thought about it. We are definitely due for some crazy Darryl action! He’s been broken and beaten and this episode, he got a reminder of that. He will either use that to fuel the fire or retreat, in going with fuel! (The fact that he was broken seems like the perfect thing to get him back in his Daryl groove.)
Bob: I don’t really know what to expect. I figure we may see some awesome escape.
Bitty: it’s due.
Brian: Darryl is a tool!!! (Man, you just upset some female readers. I salute you for that.)
Kristi: I think Super Darryl is long gone. Ever since Beth, he just seems like a softy. Its gotten to the point that he just bugs me. ( i go back to the Daryl and Beth episode where they burned the house down as the point where Daryl lost it. I hated that episode, still my least favorite. I also didn’t like Beth unless she was singing some Tom Waites.)
Chris: We haven’t had super Daryl in a bit, so it’s probably time again 😒
Raylene: Yup we’re due for some ridiculous Daryl action
Eric: He spent so much time being a hostage, I’m glad to see him “Back”
Kent: It’s going to happen. I guarandamntee it. And if I am wrong, you will have long forgotten my stupid words.
Should we start fearing for Tobin’s life?
Briana: The type of character he is, of course. He could go at any time.
Bob: Red Shirt on borrowed time.
Bitty: We always should fear for everyone’s life… duh it’s the apocalypse.
Brian: I think he will stick around
Kristi: I’m more concerned for the tiger. (As you should be.)
Chris: I think pretty much anyone could die this season, and the lesser known ones are more likely to die. I’m sure a main character will die at some point too.
Raylene: Yes especially if they start giving him more screen time
Eric: no one is safe.
Kent: So this was just a running joke for me if I am going to be honest. I was waiting for somebody to call me out for asking the same question 3 times. This episode was not very deep from a story standpoint, so I had to resort to it. The fact that all of you went along with it, I thank you. Tobin lives the thug life. That dude ain’t dyin’.
Brian: Rick is losing control of both his mental state and the ability to clearly lead. At this point his desire to find a cure is being blinded by the need to keep his past hidden. I think he knew this virus was about to hit and feels guilty that he did nothing to stop it. Now he must live with the guilt of being the cause of this world and hide the fact that his one time boss Negan knows his secrets.
Kristi: What’s up with the baby and why didn’t Rick take her? He’s just going to take all the adults and leave the baby? That confused me. (I’m hoping that Kent is taking care of Judith. He seems like a good father figure.)
Raylene: As in wrestling I’m ready for some heel turns
Eric: All that gun fire….not a single reload. 30 round magazine going full auto will only last a few minutes. I would have like to have seen more technical work with the rifles. (This made me laugh out loud for a bit. It reminded me of the season 2 finale with Herschel having unlimited ammo in his shotgun. You are very on point here.)
Kent: Can we please get some more Eugene and Carl? Also…….Kill Tara!!!
We get to kick off season 8 with Episode 100 called “Mercy”. Did it live up to our own personal hype or did it fall flat like Judith’s character learning to walk? I am joined by a plethora of people who all have very different opinions, and any comments that you see in bold are from me because apparently some people like to read my awful opinions or insults. I truly appreciate everybody’s dedication to keeping this thing going. Thank you.
Who gave the best opening war speech: Rick, Maggie, or Ezekiel?
Briana: Ezekiel is always entertaining but I think Rick was the one who really inspired everyone (and then failed to follow through with anything he said… but that’s another question I’m sure lol) (Yeah, the follow through was incredibly questionable, if not entirely disappointing in it’s own way.)
Bob: Ezekiel. That’s the kind of war speech I would want to hear and the kind of energy I would want to hear. Rick’s was arrogant and prideful. No one truly goes into a battle to die under the cause of we have already won. People go into battle to be victorious and to actually win. That was Ezekiel’s outlook. (You almost convinced me. I feel that passionate stories of Rick Grimes has spread at this point so people know what he did to Claimer Joe, so I would hope that people would just be roused by that alone. I mean, guy with tiger is inspirational, but guy who has survived gun shots, stabbings, biting off people’s flesh, and putting down little barn girls would still win me over.)
Bitty: Ezekiel. In the premier and the after show!! (OK, he stole the after show. Andy and Jeffrey were good, but Khary stole that show, no doubt.)
Raylene: I would say it has to be Ezekiel. Although this would have worked fantastic. (If we can get him doing that shit to Negan, he would become everybody’s favorite character.)
Eric: Rick. It’s full of anger and revenge towards Neegan. (Yeah, I really enjoyed the softer spoken speech, reminded me of some Jake the Snake Roberts stuff.)
Kent: Maggie!!! Ha, I’m just playing. I asked this question to illustrate something. Ezekiel is everybody’s new play thing that seems funky fresh and so I assumed he would get some love. I did not anticipate that 4 out of 6 people would choose him, but point illustrated. Nobody wants to answer with the old tired play thing in Rick, but he is the right answer. Ezekiel just had more charisma, but Rick’s felt more passionate to me, and he has more on the line. Also, had Ezekiel given us a speech along these lines, he would have been my choice by default.
Who’s grave is Rick looking at throughout the episode? Is Rick crying because of a death or something else perhaps?
Briana: I assumed it was Glenn and Abe. This would only be like the second time he’s been able to visit their graves. And let’s face it, they are a big reason they’re doing this.
Bob: I will say Maggie’s grave and the one next to her is the baby’s grave. I think she dies during childbirth. (I still say that she should have gotten Lucille instead of Abe. I feel that Carol is such a better leader and would have been better in the comic role that Maggie has. If you’re right, I will absolutely give you props.)
Bitty: I thought those were the graves of Glenn and Abraham. He is crying out of remorse.
Chris: I’m going to say Maggie. Obviously there’s no way to know yet. It could have been a character who had died previously. (Two of you going with Maggie. Man, both of you guys have got me thinking, and i am totally digging it is that’s the case.)
Raylene: I’m going with the obvious one and saying Father Gabe
Eric: Those are the graves for Glen and Abraham.
Kent: I think it is Father Gabriel’s grave. While I see a lot of you have said Glenn and Abe, that appeared to be in Alexandria, which is not where Abe is buried, and I don’t remember about Glen. Secondly, the stained glass above Rick I felt was indicative of church perhaps. Thirdly, we have Gabe’s impending “Shitting his pants” doom. Finally, we don’t know the time frame of those shots, so I am passing on the Glen and Abe grave train. I felt this summed up my responses to Bri, Bitty, and Eric, and if you’re right, well you get to make sure to remind me that I am an idiot.
When the group assaulted the Sanctuary, was it smart to use all of that ammunition to prove a point? Also, how did they not bring a sniper to take out Negan?
Briana: Ugh! The entire point was supposed to be “only one person has to die” instead it was only one person has to talk our way out of killing that one person who has to die! Rick had so many chances to take him out and end it all. I mean I don’t necessarily hate that they shot the whole building out, but I do hate that they didn’t just kill Negan right then and there. (It felt like the whole point of the journey was forgotten fairly quickly. I guess that doesn’t make for great TV.)
Bob: Killing the person Negan does not destroy the idea of Negan. A thought is more influential and persistent than a person. They might just start calling themselves Simon. (I giggled at the Simon line. While I agree with you that the idea of Negan and the Saviors is more than one person’s life, I do wonder who would take over if Negan had gotten taken out in that moment. Let’s face it, Simon is smart but not tough, while Gavin may be slightly tougher, or at least have youth, but seems like a dumbass. Arat was nowhere to be found, and Dwight is questionable. Would there be too much in house fighting to determine the next leader that would enable the group to dismantle the Saviors?)
Bitty: I was so mad they used all the ammunition!!! As soon as Negan came out i yelled at the TV “shoot him!!”. (This made my husband mad cause he’s on the Negan train) Back to bullets, if they were trying to attract walkers with the glass breaking they should’ve just lit more fires. So stupid. Why prove a point now- shoot to kill. (Because points make for better TV. It was incomprehensibly stupid, but I am glad that Negan lives because without him, this show would be struggling. He is the perfect counterpoint to Rick. Also, Brian is right to be on that train.)
Chris: I think Rick wanted to show that’s is in control now. Plus attracting the walkers could drive the saviors from their home, giving Rick and co. an advantage. As far as bringing a sniper, if they killed Negan in episode 1, what fun would that be? (The lack of sniper thing drove me nuts. I don’t want Negan to die, but if I’m Rick, I’m bringing one. What a terrible beginning to the season that would be!)
Raylene: All Rick seemed to do this was trying to show that he has access to bullets and they didn’t bring one because Rick is insistent on killing Negan himself. (There you go. Rick wants that glory kill. He wants to be the knight in shining armor. He wanted it with The Governor, and he didn’t get it. He did get it with Gareth. In his mind, he needs this to cement himself, or to do what’s right as a former sheriff. It’s in his DNA.)
Eric: It was a GIANT waste of ammo. But it was meant as a show of force towards Negan and his group. They had no intention of killing anyone because they didn’t assault the building. (Isn’t it a tad baffling to want to show force when you could just have taken out 2-4 of those people up on that platform? What scares you more: a group of 20-30 people wasting ammo and shooting windows, or that same group gunning 4 of your most influential members of your group? It’s a weird logical fallacy that I need to stop over thinking.)
Kent: It was simply a “who’s dick is bigger” moment. RIck popped some viagra prior to his trip, maybe had a penis pump in the RV, I don’t know. I hated how this scene went down. I hate to be that guy, but the comic did it so much better. This was absolutely frustrating. At the very least, I was hoping that Negan had snipers. No snipers!! This whole thing annoyed me.
Are you mad at Father Gabriel for stopping to get Gregory? Can Gregory show his face at the Hilltop ever again?
Briana: I’m not mad at Gabriel bc that’s who he is. He’s the father and the friend to all. He’s selfless and assumes the rest of the world will show the same compassion he does. It’s never ever true for the poor guy but he’s consistent! I’m assuming at the moment no one will know it’s his fault Gabriel didn’t make it out so unfortunately no one has a reason to not have him show his face around.
Bob: No, that is who Gabriel is. I can’t imagine Gregory failing to show up at the Hilltop again. I think Gregory will assume Gabriel dies, which he might. It could end up an interesting scenario. I wonder if the show will “forget” about Gabriel for an end of season reveal. (Midseason finale sounds about right.)
Bitty: Season 8 and I still can’t stand Father Gabriel. He’s a liability. Has been, is now and will be again. Gregory will get killed before he makes it back to Hilltop.
Chris: Not mad at Father Gabriel, it’s in his nature to help. I think he’s still wanting to atone for what he did to his parishioners at his church. Gregory can probably still go back to hilltop. No one will know that he betrayed Gabriel and he is arrogant enough.
Raylene: I’m not mad that’s just who Father is I think he still carries around the guilt of locking his congregation out of the church. So when he hears a cry for help he just can’t leave them behind. Gregory can try to show his face at Hilltop but I believe he’ll get the boot
Eric: Gregory is a coward Father Gabriel should have known that.
Kent: I question how Gabriel’s character has been done. A lot of you are saying that it’s in his nature, but there have been plenty of times that isn’t necessarily true. He’s an incredibly complicated character. He’s got the guilt thing going, but he also tried to get Rick thrown out of Alexandria, he was a sniveling coward. He did eventually man up and decide to stop being a little bitch. Last season, Gabe was one of the best done characters who would do work. I am mad at him. I love Gregory and you all know this, but he didn’t deserve Gabe’s kindness. Gabe is Judith’s official babysitter, so not happy, and I’m going to sit here with my arms crossed and pout.
Out of every character in the show, who do you feel has the biggest axe to grind with Negan?
Briana: Either Maggie or Daryl. They took Maggie’s remaining family from her and Daryl still blames himself for Glenn plus all the torture stuff they put him through. (Daryl is an interesting choice because he’s gotta deal with the consequences of his actions for the rest of his life. So he’s a really good candidate because although he will blame himself, if it wasn’t for the lineup, none of that happens.)
Bob: Maggie. Dwight is absolutely the wrong answer. Dwight chose to go back most likely knowing full well what would occur. He made that choice and that is on him. Maggie’s husband and father of her child was murdered by Negan. That’s plenty of axe.
Bitty: Tough question!! I’d like to say Maggie however my mind goes to Dwight. We haven’t known him long enough but he has a huge axe to to grind with Negan. Dwight has been mentally and physically abused by Negan for all we know, years. Negan abused his wife, raped her in the sense of the deal. Banished him, humiliated him and just keeps him around for a working dog. Dwight has a similar character story now to that of Carol in Season 1. Battered, abused and ready for revenge. (Woah woah woah, let’s not throw around the word rape. A deal’s a deal, even if it’s with a dirty dealer. She chose to be Negan’s wife rather than work. That is on her. The same applies to Dwight. He’s had opportunities, even more so than Sherry, and continues to back the wrong horse, or at least did, and he allowed it. He’s a fucking Lifetime movie. The only axe Dwight should grind is with Sherry and himself.)
Raylene: I would say Rick he has lost many of his people, his supplies, his dignity(but not his hair) (Ernie Tetrault approves this message.)
Eric: It’s a toss up between Rick and Maggie. Maggie because of the death of Glenn. Rick because of the mental trauma Negan put him through when he almost made him cut Carl’s hand off.
Kent: I must admit, I didn’t anticipate or consider anybody choosing Maggie, and I am baffled by all of you. I expected some Rick and Dwight, maybe a Daryl, but no Maggie. Obviously, I choose Carl. Carl has been used as this pawn, or bargaining chip, in this war in some ways. Negan wanted his hand cut, then he was a second away from bashing in his skull. Negan has humiliated his father at times. I’d also say that Ezekiel got no love despite him basically taking on the role of Benjamin’s father. Where’s his love?
Why were Carol and Tara hiding from the walkers early in the episode on the overpass?
Briana: So they wouldn’t distract them and set them off course and then also get themselves eaten.
Bob: They didn’t want to walkers to stop walking.
Bitty: They were timing the herd. Also to look at the flowers.
Chris: They didn’t want to create a distraction.
Raylene: Perhaps they didn’t want them to stop or turn back around I really don’t know
Eric: They were timing how long it took the walkers to move as a group.
Kent: It still doesn’t make sense to me. I get the timing aspect, but hiding from them when they can’t just magically get up there, it just struck me as weird. The walkers are more likely to sense them via scent or sound, not sight.
Did you enjoy old man Rick’s look? Save the spoilers for a different blog, please.
Briana: Ew no! Haha! That hair cut and beard were not doing it for me! Being old doesn’t mean you automatically have to have a flat top and curled under beard lol! (The flat top was an interesting…..and borderline awful choice, but comedic too.)
Bob: I guess it was interesting. His face looked the same, Michonne had no changes… (Black don’t crack, so no surprise there.)
Bitty: I hated how his beard got so fluffy. Poor choice. (No love for fluffy beards? Anybody who has a fluffy beard and would like to give Bitty your feedback, please send your comments to Kent@9deuce.com and I will deliver them to her. You have a voice, use it and let her know that fluffy beard shaming is not acceptable.)
Raylene: I didn’t like the short hair
Kent: Like Eric, I dig it. It’s a different look. Quite frankly, I wish it was more of a buzz cut though. I feel it would have looked more bad ass and a shout out to Shane.
Did Carl do the right thing in leaving the cans of food or should he have kept them for himself or his group?
Briana: I think it was the right thing. They didn’t get where they are by being Negan’s group. They got here by being the people who brought in new people and helped others. That’s who they should stay. (Yeah, you said it better than I did, so well done.)
Bob: Yup, like Gabriel saving Gregory, this is who Carl is. His group will be fine, let’s not forget all those MREs they found. (Let’s never forget the MRE’s or the DRE’s.)
Bitty: Leaving the cans was different for Carl’s character. I think at the beginning of season 7 he would’ve shot on site and said eff it and never gone back. Now he has a sense of responsibility and leadership. He has almost a hopeful sense about him. (Carl is one of my favorites because I love his character’s arc more than just about anybody else’s, aside from Carol.)
Chris: Yeah he did the right thing. He hasn’t lost his humanity. (Has Rick lost his humanity do you think?)
Raylene: Yeah I think he did the right thing now that they are not giving half the stuff to Negan. (Not losing half of their stuff really does help.)
Eric: Yeah I guess, what’s a few cans of food when food is scarce (Yeah, I think at this point, Alexandria has some to spare in the short term, and better to make an ally than an enemy.)
Kent: I liked the gesture. Way back in season 4 I think (maybe late 3) when Carl was protecting Herschel and shot that one kid from Woodbury, and that’s who Carl was then. Carl has now had a chance to see various types of leaders and he is starting to come into his own. Rick has to be trigger happy in his mind because he doesn’t want to get fooled again. Carl knows the food situation and he knows at some point, there has to be something more, some kindness or whatever or what’s the point for him and Judith.
Were you disappointed at the lack of Scavengers (Jadis’ group) considering how last season left things?
Briana: Nah. They served a purpose and that purpose is over as far as I’m concerned. No sleep lost over them. (The group debuted in episode #92, so I have to love them.)
Bob: No, I don’t mind the human planet of the apes characters from being missing from anything! (This is all I have)
Bitty: I didn’t miss the Scavengers. However I would’ve liked to see the Oceanside women come out to defend the honor of their lost men and boys. (I feel that you intentionally brought up Oceanside just to get a rise out of me. Consider me risen. Wait, that doesn’t sound right. Aroused? No, that’s not it either. Hmmm, job well done.)
Chris: I wasn’t disappointed. I think there will be a few episode arc where Rick and co. go after them. It will be a good way to split the season up a little. (They gotta split things up because hardly anybody got any shine in this episode really.)
Raylene: I think we will see them soon they are still working with Negan I imagine
Eric: it’s a big world. maybe they will show up again. (They will be back. I need more Pollyanna on my screen. Also, she’s in a film on NetFlix called The Blood Lands. I don’t recommend it. Very disappointed.)
Kent: Apparently I liked this group more than others. Yeah, I was pissed because I was hoping that they would surround Rick’s group or be set up as snipers so Negan could walk out as care free. I felt like they were the missing element to that entire showdown.
Had you ever heard Weird Al’s “Another One Rides The Bus” prior to this episode?
Briana: Probably but if so it was when I was a little kid so I don’t remember.
Chris: Yep. Weird Al 4 life!
Eric: yes. Weird Al is the best.
Kent: Well I am happy to see that most of you have at the very least. If you are having a bad day, just put on some Weird Al and it makes things slightly better.
For episode #100, did this feel right, or did you expect something bigger or a big death of some sort?
Briana: I didn’t even realize it was episode 100 so yes it should have been bigger! (Right? It didn’t feel like a big event to me.)
Bob: I was definitely expecting bigger and better. This would be an easy episode to simply stop watching the show. Nothing is really compelling. (Nothing really compelling. For a season opener and #100, it was somewhat of a dud. Not a bad episode, but compared to other season openers, say 2, 3, 5, and 7, this was bland.)
Bitty: I liked all the Easter Eggs to previous episodes. I liked the speed and seeing all of the core cast in action. I liked the shielded cars. I liked seeing the different ways of killing the guards at the outposts. Everyone was involved in someway. And I loved…. “THE HILLTOP STANDS WITH MAGGIE!!!” (Okay, in all fairness, Carol seeing the flower made me happy. I miss Lizzie a lot. That girl was awesome.)
Chris: I guess I’m in the minority but I loved it. It seems like everyone expects something “big” in every episode. The show has never really been like that. All out war has started, and Gabriel is in big trouble. Can’t wait to see what happens next week. (Also loved all the scenes that payed homage to season 1.) (The episode for me is an average TWD episode, it wasn’t bad at all, minus the ammunition thing, but the show has spoiled us with great premieres, and this didn’t have that same vibe, at least for me.)
Raylene: I felt it was lackluster I was expecting a few major deaths or plot twists (M Night Sham is disappointed at the lack of tweets.)
Eric: Episode did move slower than I would have liked. But you can’t blow your wad right out of the box. Where are they gonna go if they kill Negan in the first episode. (Negan isn’t going to die, same as Rick or Carl aren’t going to die. It hurts the product in some capacity that certain characters are put in situations that we know they will overcome. The show is at it’s best when expendable characters are put in bad situations.)
Kent: Season 2 premiere gave us the highway herd, Sophia going missing, and Otis shooting Carl. Season 3 premier gave us that amazing first scene where you see how the group has become a great machine in how they scavenge and find the prison. Season 5 premiere gave us the escape from Terminus and Carol cementing herself as the baddest lady on TV. Season 7 premiere was the infamous lineup. This premiere doesn’t top any of those, so yeah, i was a little let down. Then you add the fact that it was #100 and, well you expect more. To take it one step further, they had this set up in the comics and it results in 2 deaths, so knowing that put a damper on this for me.
Bitty: I would like the action to continue. I would like to see Negan on the ground at Maggie’s feet and I’d like to see Rosita die.
Raylene: I am hoping to see the Whispers possibly the season finale
Eric: I am interested to see where this season goes. The story line of the kingdom and Rick. Hopefully it doesn’t suck.
Kent: One episode down, yay! If you want to answer any questions that I posed, leave a comment on this blog. I’d love to actually get comments on one of these blogs someday. That would be amazing.