We finally have the culmination of All Out War, and it is something. Yeah, not what a lot of people may have expected. No major deaths. Kind of anti-climatic in that regard. Fear not, Maggie’s WRATH at the end adds some intrigue for us, along with a possible visit from the Whisperers. All of this and more in this week’s blog. My name is Kent, and I ask 9 episode-specific questions, and 2 bonus questions, and that’s how we get the 9 Deuce. Any comments in BOLD are written by me. I hope you enjoy and if you or someone you know may want to do this blog, contact me, leave a comment, whatever. The contact info is at the bottom of this blog.
Please note, I intend on adding more pictures, but my head really hurts, so this is what I have to offer at the moment.
- Who was more important in ending the war: Eugene or Rick? Also, did Rick make the right decision in sparing Negan’s life?
Bob: Rick. The constant battle distracted Negan from paying more attention to Eugene. Yes, he made the right decision. (You are right in that the distraction really made everything that Eugene did possible.)
Brian: I’m back!!! Eugene is a turncoat and the most selfish character next to rickard. Eugene was more important because he changed the status quo and balance of power. Rick used the death of Negan’s son to get the upper hand and it was a typical coward Rick move. And yes he was correct in sparing the Don’s life. (Annnnd Brian is back with great vengeance and furious anger.)
Kristi: I have to go with Eugene. I had a feeling he was up to something but I wouldn’t have guessed that. If he wasn’t involved, I think there is a very good possibility that Negan would have won. I think he did the right thing keeping him alive. (That is my logic too. I feel that if Eugene didn’t do what he did, Rick doesn’t get the opportunity, so I went with Eugene as well.)
Chris: Rick did the right thing in sparing Negan. I like the idea of letting him live to see that his way was wrong. Eugene was far more important to ending the war either way. If the bullets had worked, Negan would have won, but he completely changed the final battle! (Eugene had the upper hand all along, and as you know, he is such a pivotal character in the comics. I was worried that they weren’t going to give him his shine.)
Kent: Eugene is my obvious answer. Eugene’s actions allow Rick to have his actions. Without Eugene, Rick never gets to make these big decisions that have bigger consequences. Believe it or not, I am quite torn on the Negan thing. I love Negan, and of course, wanted him to live. With that being said, I have 2 opposing thoughts in my head. Rick wouldn’t have just changed on the spot. Stop trying to make it seem like Carl’s words had an impact. They impacted Negan far more while Rick was living vicariously through Eddie Guerrero. He owed it to Abe to kill Negan. Simultaneously, I think he realized that in order to make a working community, he had to spare Negan’s life to get everybody on board. The problem is that he has now pissed off the Widow, the Savior, and the uhmmmm, the Archer? Yeah. I say that he should have killed Negan from his perspective because the remaining Saviors weren’t going to put up too much of a fight, and it’s not like Rick’s forces would have minded killing the remaining Saviors, and then he has a happy group.
- Which settlement will Jadis end up in? Also, do you like actually knowing that her name is Anne or would you prefer to keep it Jadis?
Bob: Jadis still brings me back to the Planet of the Apes for some reason. I really prefer Anne. She is an Alexandrian! So I mean Kingdom. (SO what you are saying is the Oceanside needs a better leader? I want to do an Apes marathon someday. I have the originals on blu ray.)
Brian: Anne will love to live with the chicks in Oceanside and I believe the Jadis name will live on.. it’s her junkyard persona (Huh, I was just joking with Bob about Oceanside. You just went with it, and I think that her leadership skills and the way she handles herself would help that community most.)
Kristi: I’d like to see her in The Kingdom. I just see her working well with them. I like the name Jadis better. It just suits her character. (I could see Jadis and Dianne becoming good friends, or maybe Dianne stays at Hilltop and Jadis could become the new bad ass chick in the Kingdom, obviously behind Carol.)
Chris: I think she’ll go to Alexandria. Does she even know how to get to the other communities? (I hope when the series is over, maybe Kirkman will give us a map. That is all I want. It’s a valid question that I don’t know the answer to.)
Kent: Jadis still doesn’t like Rick. Hilltop needs more muscle. It could be a good fit for her, plus they have a house. I honestly would like to see her take over Oceanside and redeem that place, but I also wish Carl didn’t die.
- So after all of those minutes dealing with Oceanside, we got our payoff. Was it at all worth it or do you want all of that time back to focus on building up more character development?
Bob: I think there was almost too much time devoted to Oceanside initially for the climactic event in the season finale. (Nodding in approval)
Brian: more development. (Uh huh)
Kristi: More development. I didn’t really care for the whole Oceanside thing. Just seemed like a waste of time for me. (Go on…)
Chris: More character development. The Oceanside story didn’t add anything important. Maybe it will next season. (Four for four!)
Kent: So in case you haven’t figured it out yet, from a wide range of opinionated people, we all stand united against the waste of time that has been Oceanside. I hope the helicopter has ammo and just takes it out.
- When Rick slit Negan’s throat, did you think that he had killed him? Also, right before the throat slit, did you feel that Negan may have been affected by Carl’s words?
Bob: Yes, I thought he had killed him. Yes, I think Carl had a major impact on Negan, more so than Rick. BTW, Negan was right, he would survive this… (I have nothing to add and now I have to make up some nonsense in my response so I can feel like an individual.)
Brian: Negan is stronger than death. And we are all Negan so Negan could not actually ever die. And yes. Negan had been building a peaceful community and was a strong leader until the Ricktards showed up and ruined everything so to hear that Carl wanted the same and they could of had it I Rick had not been too selfish. (Everybody, play a fun game with me. Drink once every time Brian says Negan and twice for Ricktard and 5 times that any conspiracy theory is dropped. There, I just made this blog more unique!! I agree with most of what you just said.)
Kristi: I mean, I knew he was going to live but for a brief moment I did think he was going to die. I do not think he was affected by Carl’s words but I think in the future his words will mean more. (I like your idea about in the future, the words affecting him. While I think the words affected him in the moment, I think Carl will be a big part of Negan’s character in the upcoming season.)
Chris: I didn’t think he was going to die. Negan is too important to the story going forward (then again so is Carl.). Negan has made that face before, only to turn and kill someone brutally seconds later. I don’t think he was truly affected by Carl’s words. (Do you think that he may eventually be affected, like Kristi alluded, or do you think that moment has passed?)
Kent: I just nodded when the throat slit happened and I accepted it because after killing Carl, all bets were off the table for me. I honestly think that Negan was affected by Carl’s words. Carl could have made everything better if he had more time, this is a fact.
- Maggie, Jesus, and Daryl had quite the conversation at the end. What do you make of this? Add some details because I have like 5 questions that I could really ask about this. Also, this makes things a tad more interesting. http://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/2018/03/01/the-walking-dead-cast-season-9-lauren-cohan/
Bob: That’s just how people are. As for your link, thanks for reminding us all of Carl’s death, your favorite scene. Ever. BURNNN. (Russ is Kentertained by your BURNNN.) I found the conversation annoying, and of all people, Jesus is all in nodding his head. He doesn’t realize that all the captives they took were “Negan?” Whoever wrote that… I mean we know Daryl and Rick have had their differences and both have been wrong in a lot of what they do. Maggie has been right up until now – not that I am all in for Rick, but mercy does rule the day in the end. Rick should have let Maggie dispense her justice then and immediately. (I do like your idea of Rick allowing Maggie to dispense her justice because I would have liked to see that scene play out. I think late last year, in the comics, they did something of that nature, and while I don’t think we will get to that point in the show before it ends, it would make for an interesting scene in the final season.)
Brian: Maggie Judas and Daryl know that Rick is trouble and never has the group as a whole in his plan. He only cares about what is best for Rick. Mags got the taste for power and will not take a backseat to Rick. Jesus has always had her back and Darryl is always looking to back the person who he thinks will rise to power. (I think it is interesting how Jesus has become a puppet for Margaret. The Daryl comment also got me thinking. I can see that. Daryl did abandon the group in favor of Merle, and he probably thought that the group would lose to The Governor. It’s something to consider at the very least. I think he is sick of not being heard either. Just like Eugene.)
Kristi: I can see why they are angry. They have been more directly affected by Negan. Powertrip Maggie is pretty annoying at this point though. I don’t see them overpowering Rick and Michonne. Just more added drama to the show in my opinion. (That was pretty much the first thing out of my mouth was something like “Oh great, more fuckin drama for the sake of drama!” I probably swore more than that, but I mean, this is a family-friendly blog…hahaha.)
Chris: Understandably, Maggie wants Negan dead. And, knowing Rick, he decided to spare Negan without telling anyone. It will make for an interesting season 9. Is Maggie willing to fight Rick? How will Rick react to Daryl going against him again? Will Jesus still have perfect hair in a zombie apocalypse? (Let’s analyze these questions, shall we? Although not a question, I would have liked to have a scene where Rick talked to somebody about sparing Negan, even if it was Judith. Maybe remove some Oceanside stuff for something important. I think Maggie would be willing to fight. The question on my mind is who is on which side? I would suggest Rosita is with Maggie, and I could see Aaron, obviously Enid, Dianne. Rick has Michonne, possibly Eugene because Rick never put a gun to his head. Where would Carol and Ezekiel’s loyalties lie? Jadis would be team Maggie. Dwight would be team Rick I think. I really wish I would have asked a question about who would be on which side. Damnit!! Rick has to be used to Daryl being against him. How many times have we seen it in some capacity? Most importantly, will Jesus still have the perfect hair? As an expert on hair, I wonder if Jesus goes on scavenging missions so much just to hunt down hair product and shampoo and whatnot. I think that is why he was gone so much this half season.)
Kent: I think that this little bit of nonsense will cause some strife until everybody has to unite against the Whisperers. When Alpha does her thing, I think that all will be forgiven and the groups will be forced to reunite as a collective. This also causes me to fear for the stupid drama coming up in the first half of season 9. Seriously, I think this is going to be terrible. Would they wait a full 8 episodes before we really got into The Whisperer storyline? They could, and they might. At that point, we will have a soap opera officially and the rating will continue to plummet. Maggie is important, but as I will keep saying, if Carl is expendable, then anybody on the show is officially aside from Rick. Sometimes people overvalue their worth in a huge ensemble cast. With so many people, she would be missed but is far from irreplaceable.
- A) Gabriel can see again. Too far-fetched or just right? B) Why didn’t Gregory get any screen time? C) Dwight has been given the Carol treatment. Will he follow a similar character arc as Carol and return when he is needed most?
Bob: A) Just right, optic nerves take a long time to heal. B) Because even TWD knows that Kent is a sad panda. C) Dwight will save Rick somehow. Just throwing it out there. I’d like to see him find his wife. (I imagine that optic nerves would take even longer given the circumstances that they are living under. I was totally a sad panda! I think Sherry will be seen early season 9. She may never be seen again, but I think she will. I can see her returning and getting super pissed about Dwight getting exiled and becoming a possible ally of Rick’s if the Maggie feud gets any traction.)
Brian: a. Who cares his character is played out and he needs to have a slow death… or struck by lightning to prove God is real…. B. Again a character that has been used and is no longer useful. C. Dwight will end up being the one to break Negan free from the cell in an attempt to get back to his good graces. (Awww, I love Gabe. I think Gregory should run Oceanside. Think about the hilarious results! If Dwight breaks Negan free, that would be an interesting sight, no doubt. I kind of like that actually.)
Kristi: A. Just right. B. I actually forgot about him. So I have nothing C. I like Dwight so I hope he returns with his wife. Daryl will never forgive him though so this could pose as a problem. Unless, of course, the going against Rick thing goes wrong and Daryl gets the boot. (I hate how they have written Daryl’s character in a lot of ways. He is going back to his original ways, but in the middle, he was a totally different guy. I guess we can rationalize that his time listening to Easy Street brought back a lot of the old Daryl, but I still hate how it was handled.)
Chris: A. A bit silly, but I like Gabe so I’m happy he can see again.
- I don’t think Gregory was necessary for this episode, but I can’t wait to see how he works with Margaret next season.
- I hope so. My least favorite part of the episode was him being sent away. I wonder if that was Rick’s idea or if Daryl was going rogue? (I think Gregory could really be a great character for next season. Having lost Simon, Jared, and Gavin, we will need Gregory more than ever next season. I thought that he would possibly live to be involved with the coup against Maggie over the Carl situation from the comic, but obviously, THAT’s not happening. SO his role intrigues me. Yes, that is a great question. Who made the call on Dwight? I think Daryl did, possibly with Maggie’s backing. Dwight didn’t really wrong Rick in any true capacity. This was a way to give Daryl something to do.)
Kent: Had it been any other character, I think I may have been annoyed by the Gabriel thing, but I thought this was just right in the cheesiest way possible. Gregory will have a great redemption story arc I think and yes, I was sad not to see him. When Dwight returns, it better be to help Sherry, Eugene, or Rick and not Daryl or Tara. That’s the best I can offer. Otherwise, I think I will be annoyed.
- We never talk about Alden. He’s the former Savior that is trying to be a good guy and always talks to Maggie. Do you think that he is a future love interest for Maggie?
Bob: Totally. That’s a thing. Except. There’s no Maggie. Ha! (Well, he could go for Enid, who is basically a Maggie Jr.)
Brian: I think that Maggie will rise to power and Alden will become her boy toy and the one that others go to attempt to use him to get to mags. (Yeah, I feel his whole existence is for manipulation purposes only.)
Chris: Yes and I already hate it. I think she will need a new love interest but it seems too forced. (Not only does it seemed forced, but if she ever gives in to those temptations, will the fans turn on her because of the collective love for Glenn? I think that would absolutely be a thing.)
Kent: I think that he will end up being a pawn for and against Maggie, and he will try to get in her pants. If they really want the fans to dislike The Governess Margaret, then I would have her and Alden have a relationship. The fans are still loyal to Glenn’s memory. I feel that they rarely use her character properly though. I also think she should have gotten it at the lineup.
- Should Jesus, Carol, and Rick all have been trying to convince Morgan to stay? This happened on Fear but since it deals with TWD, I felt this question belonged here.
Bob: Of course, and like Negan, (or unlike, since Negan survives..) Morgan “doesn’t die.” This guy is an unhinged mercenary. (It is better to have that guy on your side than against you. I would agree with that, no doubt.)
Brian: No they understand that Morgan needs to heal himself and will return when he is ready. (Will he ever truly heal? I hope so, but he seems too far gone, and even he knows it.)
Chris: It couldn’t hurt to try, but I think they all knew he wasn’t going to stay. (I agree. Maybe Jesus thought that he would stay, but Rick and Carol knew better.)
Kent: I hate to say it, but I think that they should have left well enough alone. Rick of all people knows where Morgan can go mentally and while he owes him a debt, there’s only so much to be done. I worry that Morgan can never find peace so I wonder if a mercy killing would have been the best case scenario. Of course, I love that he is on Fear and makes the show infinitely better, but from their perspectives, it’s a tough call.
- Was this a disappointing way to end the war or were you Kentertained?
Bob: I didn’t see it happening but now I know why Eugene was distraught at being kidnapped. I was definitely Kentertained by this Kentisode. (Hmmmm, Kentisode. I like it!!!)
Brian: As my ### have explained It was horrible. Big buildup to massive dramatic fire fight and then it was like they were out of time and rushed through the ending. And there is nothing to look forward to in season 9. (I can say, this is the first time that I am not feeling very excited for the show to return. By October, that may change, but I really don’t think they gave me a lot to look forward to.)
Chris: It was a little deflating for it to end so abruptly. Though I have to say, it was actually kind of refreshing for no one to have been killed off just for the sake of it being the finale. (Refreshing? I guess I can see that. I feel like a season finale should have a death, just like Game of Thrones or Sons of Anarchy. This episode had it’s big moments, and I think that is really what people typically want in a season finale, so in that regard, it was a success.)
Kent: Watching it, there were moments of excitement for me. Looking back and looking forward, I am simply not too excited. As Brian mentioned, this felt horribly rushed. This episode really need 92 minutes. They could have cut so much time throughout the season to make that a reality too. Hell, the previous episode could have ended with Rick’s group being surrounded. Then this season finale could have picked up from there. I feel deflated, and fat guys never feel deflated.
- The best part of season 8 was? The worst part of season 8, aside from Carl’s death was?
Bob: Best part was Morgan’s intestinal surgery on the savior. The worst part was Rick and Negan’s final fight HOWEVER it was realistic. (Morgan was a beast that episode.)
Brian: best part was the helicopter (Yeah, that helicopter was majestic.)
Worst part was watching a gutless man sneak attack the better man.
Chris: Best: Carl’s death. (Sorry Kent. But the second half of the season was great, and while regrettable, Carl’s death was the catalyst for everything that happened. His death influenced half the season). My favorite part was the Negan/Simon fight. (I have been asking myself, could this have all been achieved without Carl’s death? The second half was significantly better. I am like Carl, I feel that there could have been a better way to do this, and in the end, keep Carl alive. Tara’s death would have brought the group together in a similar way, right??)
Worst: The whole Oceanside plot. It just didn’t add anything compelling.
Kent: Best: When Dwight shot Tara, Dwight and Eugene’s arcs were really well done, as was Jadis, Gabriel, Morgan and Negan. Everything that Jerry and Gregory did. Simon may have stole the whole season. Morales’ return to the show.
Worst: Tara not dying. Oceanside’s existence and wasting so much time on it. Alden is irritating. Rick being the villain to Negan being the hero, and then switching it at the end. Rick’s cowardly ways. In honor of Kristi, Sheva’s death. The irritating callbacks, like Carol finding Henry in the same tree as Sophia was left in. The fact that we get reminded of Glenn all the time, but Abe is barely remembered. The final battle. The vast majority of the first half with the stupid gun fights. Daryl’s character being terrible. I wished that Ezekiel had more shine in the second half. All of the ridiculous timely “saves”. Oh, and Carl’s death. I broke my own rule. Still pissed that it happened on my birthday.
- Did we see The Whisperers in this episode? Is it safe to assume that they may ignore the time jump, or at least ignore the length of the comic time jump, which was 7 years (I think)?
Bob: I have no idea what this is. (They are soft spoken people)
Brian: they were not evident to me and yes maybe they use the boring setup to age the group. (If they do a time skip, I don’t think it will be substantial. Otherwise, why have the Maggie scene? Is she going to plot for 5 years her revenge? It could happen I suppose.)
Chris: I think that huge herd we saw may have alluded to them. I think they will do a time jump to skip Maggie’s pregnancy, but it will only be a few years. (I think the herd was meant to cause people like you and I to speculate, just like seeing the old man Rick nonsense.)
Kent: Sure, it was the Whisperers. Why the hell not? I think the time jump will be less than a year. Otherwise, the Maggie/Jesus/Daryl scene doesn’t make much sense. Like, are they going to hold this grudge for 5 or 7 years? That makes little sense. The reason for the time jump was mainly to get Carl involved with Lydia in the comic and he had to be older to make that story work. Some time will pass, but they can rebuild fairly quickly I feel. They don’t need that much time. Sanctuary didn’t take a ton of damage and neither did Hilltop. The Kingdom and Alexandria need a lot of work though, obviously. Still, a year at most.
- Rick once again avoided his comic’s counterpart’s injury. He has avoided his hand being chopped off and has now avoided the serious leg injury suffered at the hands of Negan that would have been in this episode. I agreed with the decision to not chop off Rick’s hand due to costs, but the idea of Rick being hobbled in some capacity added some depth to his character. Was it the right decision to keep Rick fully healthy and intact?
Bob: In this day of Kentertainment, yes. It is the right thing to do if they intend on keeping him as the protagonist. (I didn’t anticipate this response. I think the leg injury would have been hard to cope with, but I feel that it is also something that helps Rick grow as a character. I don’t know how it would translate to TV though. Probably more eye rolling scenes.)
Brian: no I feel like they need Rick to be humbled so he can grow as a leader. Having him only have emotional grief and not the pain of physical ailment is getting old. It’s becoming days of our Rick. (Even if Negan had taken one of Rick’s fingers off, it would have served a purpose. I 100% agree that he needs the pain to grow.)
Chris: For television purposes, its better for him to not have the leg injury. He already gets his ass kicked in every fight, how could they have him win with a bad limp? (Do you think comic Rick is more of a bad ass? I have thought about that a lot as of late. Rick really does lose all of his big fights. That’s pretty funny to think about.)
Kent: I think Andy is starting to get bored by his role to an extent, and I feel that this would have rejuvenated him a bit. I also think it would have built up his character better. Just a can and a limp is all that was needed.
- In hindsight, going back to the “dreams” or “visions” that Carl had that teased Old Man Rick, the cane, Carl growing up, and so on, was it a good decision to show those visions or was it a cheap ploy by the writers/directors/producers to stir up speculation?
Bob: No one should have believed those for what they were, dream sequences. Just like Abe and Sasha. (I will say that they played mainly to the comic readers. They like to do that. There are times when it’s good to not know.)
Brian: cheap ploy to keep us guessing. (They succeeded…unfortunately.)
Chris: Oh it was definitely a cheap ploy. But hey, it worked! (It absolutely worked. They must have been so proud of that stuff that they called M Night Sham and was like “Listen man, we came up with such a good TWEEST!” and M Night was just like “I’m listening…”)
Kent: Yes, I am guilty of asking questions with obvious answers as a way to gripe about stupid decisions. This is one of those times.
Final Thoughts – Did the show do enough to make you want to come back for season 9?
Bob: Barely, with a mutiny being established, I almost do not want to come back. (This season felt like I did while waiting for Amanda to take her turn at Mario Party 3.)
Brian: no. Rick in a bed healing as negan sits in a cell yes. A public conflict between mags and Rick with a back door meeting like we had maybe. The way it ended nope…. Make the show about the dead again and stop avoiding killing off characters because they are popular (First of all, Easy Street just started playing and I felt that needed to be acknowledged. Yeah, I think we need more deaths. As we near the end of the series, I think and I hope, they shouldn’t fear killing some characters, like Daryl or Tara.)
Chris: Yes. This was the best the show has been in a few seasons. To me, it’s never been so much about just mindless zombie killing. The show is showing us what a zombie apocalypse has done to the living. People become the monsters and are far more dangerous than walkers. (I have long wanted for the dead to be feared again. Then the Carl thing, and it sucked despite getting my wish. I think The Whisperers are very necessary because it’s like the best of both worlds. We will have walkers as threats again and also humans being the threat. They have to nail The Whisperers just right and I fear that may be tough. I don’t know how you felt, but for me, Carl was so instrumental in developing how primal the Whisperers were when he has the conversations with Lydia. I don’t know how the show will be able to make us view the Whisperers properly without that context. Most people can grasp the concept of hearing this teenage girl talk about basically being raped by these guys and understand Carl’s motives. Obviously, it wouldn’t work for Enid to meet a Whisperer boy and do it that way because the vulnerability simply isn’t there.)
Kent: No, but I am a glutton for punishment. TWD does offer us plenty of intriguing possibilities, but I feel that they have decided to present the ideas behind it and then dupe us into something us. I need for them to follow through on some cool shit. The seed has been planted for this Maggie war, so go through with it. Don’t bait and switch, but we know that they will. I have lost faith in them following through properly on things that I would love. This happens with many shows though, TWD isn’t the first or the last. So much like other long-time favorites, you either continue for the ride and accept that the quality is probably on a downward slope but you can find things to enjoy, or it’s time to move along. For me, I can always find things to enjoy in this show, so I will stick with it, unless they kill Eugene. I think that would end it for me. Carl, Eugene, and Abe were my boys. Carol dying would also piss me off, but based on the situations that she puts herself into, I could at least understand her death. Protect the mullet at all costs.
I just want to say thank you to everybody who has contributed to this blog. It really means a lot to me. I love to hear your thoughts, whether I agree or disagree, I like to have the conversation at least. I hope that you all return for next season. We will continue with our Fear the Walking Dead blog and hopefully we can have some fun with that, although it will be a shorter blog. Thank you to the readers, the writers, and the well-wishers. I appreciate it all.
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