The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:8 Ep:16 “Wrath”

We finally have the culmination of All Out War, and it is something.  Yeah, not what a lot of people may have expected.  No major deaths.  Kind of anti-climatic in that regard.  Fear not, Maggie’s WRATH at the end adds some intrigue for us, along with a possible visit from the Whisperers.  All of this and more in this week’s blog.  My name is Kent, and I ask 9 episode-specific questions, and 2 bonus questions, and that’s how we get the 9 Deuce.  Any comments in BOLD are written by me.  I hope you enjoy and if you or someone you know may want to do this blog, contact me, leave a comment, whatever.  The contact info is at the bottom of this blog.

Please note, I intend on adding more pictures, but my head really hurts, so this is what I have to offer at the moment.

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The 9

 

  1.  Who was more important in ending the war: Eugene or Rick?  Also, did Rick make the right decision in sparing Negan’s life?

Bob:  Rick. The constant battle distracted Negan from paying more attention to Eugene.  Yes, he made the right decision. (You are right in that the distraction really made everything that Eugene did possible.)

Brian:  I’m back!!! Eugene is a turncoat and the most selfish character next to rickard. Eugene was more important because he changed the status quo and balance of power. Rick used the death of Negan’s son to get the upper hand and it was a typical coward Rick move. And yes he was correct in sparing the Don’s life. (Annnnd Brian is back with great vengeance and furious anger.)

Kristi: I have to go with Eugene. I had a feeling he was up to something but I wouldn’t have guessed that. If he wasn’t involved,  I think there is a very good possibility that Negan would have won. I think he did the right thing keeping him alive. (That is my logic too.  I feel that if Eugene didn’t do what he did, Rick doesn’t get the opportunity, so I went with Eugene as well.)

Chris:  Rick did the right thing in sparing Negan.  I like the idea of letting him live to see that his way was wrong.  Eugene was far more important to ending the war either way. If the bullets had worked, Negan would have won, but he completely changed the final battle!  (Eugene had the upper hand all along, and as you know, he is such a pivotal character in the comics.  I was worried that they weren’t going to give him his shine.)

Kent:  Eugene is my obvious answer.  Eugene’s actions allow Rick to have his actions.  Without Eugene, Rick never gets to make these big decisions that have bigger consequences.  Believe it or not, I am quite torn on the Negan thing. I love Negan, and of course, wanted him to live.  With that being said, I have 2 opposing thoughts in my head. Rick wouldn’t have just changed on the spot.  Stop trying to make it seem like Carl’s words had an impact. They impacted Negan far more while Rick was living vicariously through Eddie Guerrero.  He owed it to Abe to kill Negan. Simultaneously, I think he realized that in order to make a working community, he had to spare Negan’s life to get everybody on board.  The problem is that he has now pissed off the Widow, the Savior, and the uhmmmm, the Archer? Yeah. I say that he should have killed Negan from his perspective because the remaining Saviors weren’t going to put up too much of a fight, and it’s not like Rick’s forces would have minded killing the remaining Saviors, and then he has a happy group.

 

  1.  Which settlement will Jadis end up in?  Also, do you like actually knowing that her name is Anne or would you prefer to keep it Jadis?

 

Bob:  Jadis still brings me back to the Planet of the Apes for some reason.  I really prefer Anne. She is an Alexandrian! So I mean Kingdom. (SO what you are saying is the Oceanside needs a better leader?  I want to do an Apes marathon someday. I have the originals on blu ray.)

Brian:  Anne will love to live with the chicks in Oceanside and I believe the Jadis name will live on.. it’s her junkyard persona  (Huh, I was just joking with Bob about Oceanside.  You just went with it, and I think that her leadership skills and the way she handles herself would help that community most.)

Kristi:  I’d like to see her in The Kingdom. I just see her working well with them. I like the name Jadis better. It just suits her character. (I could see Jadis and Dianne becoming good friends, or maybe Dianne stays at Hilltop and Jadis could become the new bad ass chick in the Kingdom, obviously behind Carol.)

Chris:  I think she’ll go to Alexandria.  Does she even know how to get to the other communities?  (I hope when the series is over, maybe Kirkman will give us a map.  That is all I want. It’s a valid question that I don’t know the answer to.)

Kent:  Jadis still doesn’t like Rick.  Hilltop needs more muscle. It could be a good fit for her, plus they have a house.  I honestly would like to see her take over Oceanside and redeem that place, but I also wish Carl didn’t die.

 

  1.  So after all of those minutes dealing with Oceanside, we got our payoff.  Was it at all worth it or do you want all of that time back to focus on building up more character development?

 

Bob:  I think there was almost too much time devoted to Oceanside initially for the climactic event in the season finale.  (Nodding in approval)

Brian:  more development. (Uh huh)

Kristi:  More development. I didn’t really care for the whole Oceanside thing. Just seemed like a waste of time for me.  (Go on…)

Chris:  More character development.  The Oceanside story didn’t add anything important.  Maybe it will next season. (Four for four!)

Kent:  So in case you haven’t figured it out yet, from a wide range of opinionated people, we all stand united against the waste of time that has been Oceanside.  I hope the helicopter has ammo and just takes it out.

 

  1.  When Rick slit Negan’s throat, did you think that he had killed him? Also, right before the throat slit, did you feel that Negan may have been affected by Carl’s words?

 

Bob:  Yes, I thought he had killed him.  Yes, I think Carl had a major impact on Negan, more so than Rick.  BTW, Negan was right, he would survive this… (I have nothing to add and now I have to make up some nonsense in my response so I can feel like an individual.)

Brian:  Negan is stronger than death. And we are all Negan so Negan could not actually ever die. And yes. Negan had been building a peaceful community and was a strong leader until the Ricktards showed up and ruined everything so to hear that Carl wanted the same and they could of had it I Rick had not been too selfish. (Everybody, play a fun game with me.  Drink once every time Brian says Negan and twice for Ricktard and 5 times that any conspiracy theory is dropped.  There, I just made this blog more unique!! I agree with most of what you just said.)

Kristi:  I mean, I knew he was going to live but for a brief moment I did think he was going to die. I do not think he was affected by Carl’s words but I think in the future his words will mean more.  (I like your idea about in the future, the words affecting him.  While I think the words affected him in the moment, I think Carl will be a big part of Negan’s character in the upcoming season.)

Chris:  I didn’t think he was going to die.  Negan is too important to the story going forward (then again so is Carl.). Negan has made that face before, only to turn and kill someone brutally seconds later.  I don’t think he was truly affected by Carl’s words. (Do you think that he may eventually be affected, like Kristi alluded, or do you think that moment has passed?)

Kent:  I just nodded when the throat slit happened and I accepted it because after killing Carl, all bets were off the table for me.  I honestly think that Negan was affected by Carl’s words. Carl could have made everything better if he had more time, this is a fact.

 

  1.  Maggie, Jesus, and Daryl had quite the conversation at the end.  What do you make of this? Add some details because I have like 5 questions that I could really ask about this.  Also, this makes things a tad more interesting. http://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/2018/03/01/the-walking-dead-cast-season-9-lauren-cohan/

 

Bob:  That’s just how people are.  As for your link, thanks for reminding us all of Carl’s death, your favorite scene.  Ever. BURNNN. (Russ is Kentertained by your BURNNN.)  I found the conversation annoying, and of all people, Jesus is all in nodding his head.  He doesn’t realize that all the captives they took were “Negan?” Whoever wrote that… I mean we know Daryl and Rick have had their differences and both have been wrong in a lot of what they do.  Maggie has been right up until now – not that I am all in for Rick, but mercy does rule the day in the end. Rick should have let Maggie dispense her justice then and immediately. (I do like your idea of Rick allowing Maggie to dispense her justice because I would have liked to see that scene play out.  I think late last year, in the comics, they did something of that nature, and while I don’t think we will get to that point in the show before it ends, it would make for an interesting scene in the final season.)

Brian:  Maggie Judas and Daryl know that Rick is trouble and never has the group as a whole in his plan. He only cares about what is best for Rick. Mags got the taste for power and will not take a backseat to Rick.  Jesus has always had her back and Darryl is always looking to back the person who he thinks will rise to power. (I think it is interesting how Jesus has become a puppet for Margaret.  The Daryl comment also got me thinking. I can see that. Daryl did abandon the group in favor of Merle, and he probably thought that the group would lose to The Governor.  It’s something to consider at the very least. I think he is sick of not being heard either. Just like Eugene.)

Kristi:  I can see why they are angry. They have been more directly affected by Negan. Powertrip Maggie is pretty annoying at this point though. I don’t see them overpowering Rick and Michonne. Just more added drama to the show in my opinion. (That was pretty much the first thing out of my mouth was something like “Oh great, more fuckin drama for the sake of drama!”  I probably swore more than that, but I mean, this is a family-friendly blog…hahaha.)

Chris: Understandably, Maggie wants Negan dead.  And, knowing Rick, he decided to spare Negan without telling anyone.  It will make for an interesting season 9. Is Maggie willing to fight Rick?  How will Rick react to Daryl going against him again? Will Jesus still have perfect hair in a zombie apocalypse?  (Let’s analyze these questions, shall we?  Although not a question, I would have liked to have a scene where Rick talked to somebody about sparing Negan, even if it was Judith.  Maybe remove some Oceanside stuff for something important. I think Maggie would be willing to fight. The question on my mind is who is on which side?  I would suggest Rosita is with Maggie, and I could see Aaron, obviously Enid, Dianne. Rick has Michonne, possibly Eugene because Rick never put a gun to his head.  Where would Carol and Ezekiel’s loyalties lie? Jadis would be team Maggie. Dwight would be team Rick I think. I really wish I would have asked a question about who would be on which side.  Damnit!! Rick has to be used to Daryl being against him. How many times have we seen it in some capacity? Most importantly, will Jesus still have the perfect hair? As an expert on hair, I wonder if Jesus goes on scavenging missions so much just to hunt down hair product and shampoo and whatnot.  I think that is why he was gone so much this half season.)

Kent:  I think that this little bit of nonsense will cause some strife until everybody has to unite against the Whisperers.  When Alpha does her thing, I think that all will be forgiven and the groups will be forced to reunite as a collective.  This also causes me to fear for the stupid drama coming up in the first half of season 9. Seriously, I think this is going to be terrible.  Would they wait a full 8 episodes before we really got into The Whisperer storyline? They could, and they might. At that point, we will have a soap opera officially and the rating will continue to plummet.  Maggie is important, but as I will keep saying, if Carl is expendable, then anybody on the show is officially aside from Rick. Sometimes people overvalue their worth in a huge ensemble cast. With so many people, she would be missed but is far from irreplaceable.

 

  1.  A) Gabriel can see again.  Too far-fetched or just right?  B) Why didn’t Gregory get any screen time?  C) Dwight has been given the Carol treatment.  Will he follow a similar character arc as Carol and return when he is needed most?

 

Bob:  A) Just right, optic nerves take a long time to heal. B) Because even TWD knows that Kent is a sad panda. C) Dwight will save Rick somehow.  Just throwing it out there. I’d like to see him find his wife. (I imagine that optic nerves would take even longer given the circumstances that they are living under.  I was totally a sad panda! I think Sherry will be seen early season 9. She may never be seen again, but I think she will.  I can see her returning and getting super pissed about Dwight getting exiled and becoming a possible ally of Rick’s if the Maggie feud gets any traction.)

Brian:  a. Who cares his character is played out and he needs to have a slow death… or struck by lightning to prove God is real…. B. Again a character that has been used and is no longer useful. C. Dwight will end up being the one to break Negan free from the cell in an attempt to get back to his good graces.  (Awww, I love Gabe.  I think Gregory should run Oceanside.  Think about the hilarious results! If Dwight breaks Negan free, that would be an interesting sight, no doubt.  I kind of like that actually.)

Kristi:  A. Just right. B. I actually forgot about him. So I have nothing C. I like Dwight so I hope he returns with his wife. Daryl will never forgive him though so this could pose as a problem. Unless, of course, the going against Rick thing goes wrong and Daryl gets the boot. (I hate how they have written Daryl’s character in a lot of ways.  He is going back to his original ways, but in the middle, he was a totally different guy.  I guess we can rationalize that his time listening to Easy Street brought back a lot of the old Daryl, but I still hate how it was handled.)

Chris:  A. A bit silly, but I like Gabe so I’m happy he can see again.

  1.  I don’t think Gregory was necessary for this episode, but I can’t wait to see how he works with Margaret next season.
  2.  I hope so.  My least favorite part of the episode was him being sent away.  I wonder if that was Rick’s idea or if Daryl was going rogue? (I think Gregory could really be a great character for next season.  Having lost Simon, Jared, and Gavin, we will need Gregory more than ever next season.  I thought that he would possibly live to be involved with the coup against Maggie over the Carl situation from the comic, but obviously, THAT’s not happening.  SO his role intrigues me. Yes, that is a great question. Who made the call on Dwight? I think Daryl did, possibly with Maggie’s backing. Dwight didn’t really wrong Rick in any true capacity.  This was a way to give Daryl something to do.)

Kent:  Had it been any other character, I think I may have been annoyed by the Gabriel thing, but I thought this was just right in the cheesiest way possible.  Gregory will have a great redemption story arc I think and yes, I was sad not to see him. When Dwight returns, it better be to help Sherry, Eugene, or Rick and not Daryl or Tara.  That’s the best I can offer. Otherwise, I think I will be annoyed.

 

  1.  We never talk about Alden.  He’s the former Savior that is trying to be a good guy and always talks to Maggie.  Do you think that he is a future love interest for Maggie?

 

Bob:  Totally.  That’s a thing.  Except. There’s no Maggie. Ha!  (Well, he could go for Enid, who is basically a Maggie Jr.)

Brian:  I think that Maggie will rise to power and Alden will become her boy toy and the one that others go to attempt to use him to get to mags. (Yeah, I feel his whole existence is for manipulation purposes only.)

Chris:  Yes and I already hate it.  I think she will need a new love interest but it seems too forced. (Not only does it seemed forced, but if she ever gives in to those temptations, will the fans turn on her because of the collective love for Glenn?  I think that would absolutely be a thing.)

Kent:  I think that he will end up being a pawn for and against Maggie, and he will try to get in her pants.  If they really want the fans to dislike The Governess Margaret, then I would have her and Alden have a relationship.  The fans are still loyal to Glenn’s memory. I feel that they rarely use her character properly though. I also think she should have gotten it at the lineup.

 

  1.  Should Jesus, Carol, and Rick all have been trying to convince Morgan to stay?  This happened on Fear but since it deals with TWD, I felt this question belonged here.

 

Bob:  Of course, and like Negan, (or unlike, since Negan survives..) Morgan “doesn’t die.”  This guy is an unhinged mercenary. (It is better to have that guy on your side than against you.  I would agree with that, no doubt.)

Brian:  No they understand that Morgan needs to heal himself and will return when he is ready.  (Will he ever truly heal?  I hope so, but he seems too far gone, and even he knows it.)

Chris:  It couldn’t hurt to try, but I think they all knew he wasn’t going to stay. (I agree.  Maybe Jesus thought that he would stay, but Rick and Carol knew better.)

Kent:  I hate to say it, but I think that they should have left well enough alone.  Rick of all people knows where Morgan can go mentally and while he owes him a debt, there’s only so much to be done.  I worry that Morgan can never find peace so I wonder if a mercy killing would have been the best case scenario. Of course, I love that he is on Fear and makes the show infinitely better, but from their perspectives, it’s a tough call.  

 

  1.  Was this a disappointing way to end the war or were you Kentertained?

 

Bob:  I didn’t see it happening but now I know why Eugene was distraught at being kidnapped.  I was definitely Kentertained by this Kentisode. (Hmmmm, Kentisode.  I like it!!!)

Brian:  As my ### have explained It was horrible. Big buildup to massive dramatic fire fight and then it was like they were out of time and rushed through the ending. And there is nothing to look forward to in season 9.  (I can say, this is the first time that I am not feeling very excited for the show to return.  By October, that may change, but I really don’t think they gave me a lot to look forward to.)

Chris:  It was a little deflating for it to end so abruptly.  Though I have to say, it was actually kind of refreshing for no one to have been killed off just for the sake of it being the finale.  (Refreshing?  I guess I can see that.  I feel like a season finale should have a death, just like Game of Thrones or Sons of Anarchy.  This episode had it’s big moments, and I think that is really what people typically want in a season finale, so in that regard, it was a success.)

Kent:  Watching it, there were moments of excitement for me.  Looking back and looking forward, I am simply not too excited.  As Brian mentioned, this felt horribly rushed. This episode really need 92 minutes.  They could have cut so much time throughout the season to make that a reality too. Hell, the previous episode could have ended with Rick’s group being surrounded.  Then this season finale could have picked up from there. I feel deflated, and fat guys never feel deflated.

 

Bonus Deuce

 

  1.  The best part of season 8 was?  The worst part of season 8, aside from Carl’s death was?

 

Bob:  Best part was Morgan’s intestinal surgery on the savior.  The worst part was Rick and Negan’s final fight HOWEVER it was realistic.  (Morgan was a beast that episode.)

Brian:  best part was the helicopter (Yeah, that helicopter was majestic.)

Worst part was watching a gutless man sneak attack the better man.

Chris:  Best: Carl’s death.  (Sorry Kent. But the second half of the season was great, and while regrettable, Carl’s death was the catalyst for everything that happened.  His death influenced half the season). My favorite part was the Negan/Simon fight. (I have been asking myself, could this have all been achieved without Carl’s death?  The second half was significantly better. I am like Carl, I feel that there could have been a better way to do this, and in the end, keep Carl alive.  Tara’s death would have brought the group together in a similar way, right??)

Worst:  The whole Oceanside plot.  It just didn’t add anything compelling.

Kent:  Best: When Dwight shot Tara, Dwight and Eugene’s arcs were really well done, as was Jadis, Gabriel, Morgan and Negan.  Everything that Jerry and Gregory did. Simon may have stole the whole season. Morales’ return to the show.

Worst: Tara not dying.  Oceanside’s existence and wasting so much time on it. Alden is irritating.  Rick being the villain to Negan being the hero, and then switching it at the end.  Rick’s cowardly ways. In honor of Kristi, Sheva’s death. The irritating callbacks, like Carol finding Henry in the same tree as Sophia was left in.  The fact that we get reminded of Glenn all the time, but Abe is barely remembered. The final battle. The vast majority of the first half with the stupid gun fights.  Daryl’s character being terrible. I wished that Ezekiel had more shine in the second half. All of the ridiculous timely “saves”. Oh, and Carl’s death. I broke my own rule.  Still pissed that it happened on my birthday.

 

  1.  Did we see The Whisperers in this episode?  Is it safe to assume that they may ignore the time jump, or at least ignore the length of the comic time jump, which was 7 years (I think)?

 

Bob:  I have no idea what this is. (They are soft spoken people)

Brian:  they were not evident to me and yes maybe they use the boring setup to age the group. (If they do a time skip, I don’t think it will be substantial.  Otherwise, why have the Maggie scene? Is she going to plot for 5 years her revenge?  It could happen I suppose.)

Chris:  I think that huge herd we saw may have alluded to them.  I think they will do a time jump to skip Maggie’s pregnancy, but it will only be a few years. (I think the herd was meant to cause people like you and I to speculate, just like seeing the old man Rick nonsense.)

Kent:  Sure, it was the Whisperers.  Why the hell not? I think the time jump will be less than a year.  Otherwise, the Maggie/Jesus/Daryl scene doesn’t make much sense. Like, are they going to hold this grudge for 5 or 7 years?  That makes little sense. The reason for the time jump was mainly to get Carl involved with Lydia in the comic and he had to be older to make that story work.  Some time will pass, but they can rebuild fairly quickly I feel. They don’t need that much time. Sanctuary didn’t take a ton of damage and neither did Hilltop.  The Kingdom and Alexandria need a lot of work though, obviously. Still, a year at most.

 

  1.  Rick once again avoided his comic’s counterpart’s injury.  He has avoided his hand being chopped off and has now avoided the serious leg injury suffered at the hands of Negan that would have been in this episode.  I agreed with the decision to not chop off Rick’s hand due to costs, but the idea of Rick being hobbled in some capacity added some depth to his character.  Was it the right decision to keep Rick fully healthy and intact?

 

Bob:  In this day of Kentertainment, yes. It is the right thing to do if they intend on keeping him as the protagonist.  (I didn’t anticipate this response.  I think the leg injury would have been hard to cope with, but I feel that it is also something that helps Rick grow as a character.  I don’t know how it would translate to TV though. Probably more eye rolling scenes.)

Brian:  no I feel like they need Rick to be humbled so he can grow as a leader. Having him only have emotional grief and not the pain of physical ailment is getting old. It’s becoming days of our Rick.  (Even if Negan had taken one of Rick’s fingers off, it would have served a purpose.  I 100% agree that he needs the pain to grow.)

Chris:  For television purposes, its better for him to not have the leg injury.  He already gets his ass kicked in every fight, how could they have him win with a bad limp?  (Do you think comic Rick is more of a bad ass?  I have thought about that a lot as of late. Rick really does lose all of his big fights.  That’s pretty funny to think about.)

Kent:  I think Andy is starting to get bored by his role to an extent, and I feel that this would have rejuvenated him a bit.  I also think it would have built up his character better. Just a can and a limp is all that was needed.

 

  1.  In hindsight, going back to the “dreams” or “visions” that Carl had that teased Old Man Rick, the cane, Carl growing up, and so on, was it a good decision to show those visions or was it a cheap ploy by the writers/directors/producers to stir up speculation?

 

Bob:  No one should have believed those for what they were, dream sequences.  Just like Abe and Sasha. (I will say that they played mainly to the comic readers.  They like to do that. There are times when it’s good to not know.)

Brian:  cheap ploy to keep us guessing. (They succeeded…unfortunately.)

Chris:  Oh it was definitely a cheap ploy.  But hey, it worked! (It absolutely worked.  They must have been so proud of that stuff that they called M Night Sham and was like “Listen man, we came up with such a good TWEEST!” and M Night was just like “I’m listening…”)

Kent:  Yes, I am guilty of asking questions with obvious answers as a way to gripe about stupid decisions.  This is one of those times.

 

Final Thoughts – Did the show do enough to make you want to come back for season 9?

 

Bob:  Barely, with a mutiny being established, I almost do not want to come back.  (This season felt like I did while waiting for Amanda to take her turn at Mario Party 3.)

Brian:  no. Rick in a bed healing as negan sits in a cell yes. A public conflict between mags and Rick with a back door meeting like we had maybe. The way it ended nope…. Make the show about the dead again and stop avoiding killing off characters because they are popular  (First of all, Easy Street just started playing and I felt that needed to be acknowledged.  Yeah, I think we need more deaths. As we near the end of the series, I think and I hope, they shouldn’t fear killing some characters, like Daryl or Tara.)

Chris:  Yes. This was the best the show has been in a few seasons.  To me, it’s never been so much about just mindless zombie killing.  The show is showing us what a zombie apocalypse has done to the living.  People become the monsters and are far more dangerous than walkers. (I have long wanted for the dead to be feared again.  Then the Carl thing, and it sucked despite getting my wish.  I think The Whisperers are very necessary because it’s like the best of both worlds.  We will have walkers as threats again and also humans being the threat. They have to nail The Whisperers just right and I fear that may be tough.  I don’t know how you felt, but for me, Carl was so instrumental in developing how primal the Whisperers were when he has the conversations with Lydia.  I don’t know how the show will be able to make us view the Whisperers properly without that context. Most people can grasp the concept of hearing this teenage girl talk about basically being raped by these guys and understand Carl’s motives.  Obviously, it wouldn’t work for Enid to meet a Whisperer boy and do it that way because the vulnerability simply isn’t there.)

Kent:  No, but I am a glutton for punishment.  TWD does offer us plenty of intriguing possibilities, but I feel that they have decided to present the ideas behind it and then dupe us into something us.  I need for them to follow through on some cool shit. The seed has been planted for this Maggie war, so go through with it. Don’t bait and switch, but we know that they will.  I have lost faith in them following through properly on things that I would love. This happens with many shows though, TWD isn’t the first or the last. So much like other long-time favorites, you either continue for the ride and accept that the quality is probably on a downward slope but you can find things to enjoy, or it’s time to move along.  For me, I can always find things to enjoy in this show, so I will stick with it, unless they kill Eugene. I think that would end it for me. Carl, Eugene, and Abe were my boys. Carol dying would also piss me off, but based on the situations that she puts herself into, I could at least understand her death. Protect the mullet at all costs.

I just want to say thank you to everybody who has contributed to this blog.  It really means a lot to me. I love to hear your thoughts, whether I agree or disagree, I like to have the conversation at least.  I hope that you all return for next season. We will continue with our Fear the Walking Dead blog and hopefully we can have some fun with that, although it will be a shorter blog.  Thank you to the readers, the writers, and the well-wishers. I appreciate it all.

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The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:8 Ep:15 “Worth”

This week, Negan returns to Sanctuary to clean up the Simon and Dwight mess.  Michonne makes one final plea to Negan with a Carl letter.  Aaron makes progress with Oceanside, like anybody truly gives a damn.  Eugene is kidnapped and then gets himself out of aforementioned kidnapping.  Finally, Gregory mans up!  All of this and more in this week’s blog.  My name is Kent, and I ask 9 episode-specific questions, and 2 bonus questions, and that’s how we get the 9 Deuce.  Any comments in BOLD are written by me.  I hope you enjoy and if you or someone you know may want to do this blog, contact me, leave a comment, whatever.  The contact info is at the bottom of this blog.

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The 9

 

  1.  How do you feel about Simon’s demise?  It happened at the hands of Negan rather than Jadis.  

Bob:  It was appropriate.  It followed the chain of command. (There’s a reason why he’s the #2 and not #1, right?)

Bitty:  LOVED IT! I liked how it was a hand to hand fight. We really see more of Negan’s strength this way.  (I demand to see more hand to hand fighting now that we know it’s an option.)

Chris:  I expected Jadis to get to kill him, but I was satisfied with his death.  It made a Negan look like such a badass that he actually let Simon fight for control.  (The fact that Jadis didn’t get it is very interesting.  Is that a sign that she isn’t important enough to get that kill, or is it that she has much bigger fish to fry?  I hope it is the latter. If the time jump happens, I can see her in the big role next season.)

Kent:  This was something that we just don’t see enough in this show.  2 bad ass dudes just duking it out. While Simon probably felt like he had nothing to lose and Negan had some credibility to potentially lose.  Negan once again proved why he is the leader.

 

  1.  Laura is the one who got in Negan’s car the previous episode.  Was this reveal satisfying to you?

Bob:  It was a very nice shock.  I like Dwight but that was fantastic.  (It was a nice shock, you’re right.  We don’t get enough of those, so I was pleased to be surprised.)

Bitty:  Yes, I had forgotten all about it. I was thinking it’d be Gregory but kinda got disappointed that Negan would pick him up and not run him over.  (Yeah, i totally forgot about Laura too, I admit to that.)

Chris:  Yes. The only other option, in my opinion, was Gregory.  This adds a whole new level of intrigue to the finale. Rick and co. are now walking into a trap and Dwight doesn’t look like he can help them.  (It could have been Heath I suppose, but logic told us that Gregory seemed likely.  I miss Heath.)

Kent:  Incredibly satisfying because as much as I like Dwight’s character arc, it was making a mockery of Negan to an extent.  Negan runs a tight ship and we are led to believe that his bullshit meter is top of the line, so it felt weird that he never caught on to Dwight.  Tara better be sacrificing herself to save Dwight damnit!!

 

  1.   Did you think Dwight was going to get away with his betrayal?  What will Dwight’s punishment ultimately be, or will he escape punishment?

Bob:  He’ll escape.  Tara will save him.  I still will not mourn Tara. (I can see him escaping, but I don’t know how.  This one seems like a convenient TWD escape that makes no sense.)

Bitty:  His betrayal came one episode too early for my liking. I was surprised that I actually felt bad for him. Dwight will die in a moment where he saves Daryl. (Yes, saving it would have been preferred by me as well.)

Chris:  I thought he would reveal his betrayal in the finale.  From the preview it looks like he’s getting the Daryl treatment.  Storyline-wise it makes absolutely no sense. Simon was killed for killing the trash people.  Dwight’s actions resulted in more Saviors dying, be he lives? (THANK YOU!  His betrayal cost plenty of his people’s lives just to save these assholes that started attacking them in the first place.  How he isn’t tortured and severely punished is beyond me.)

Kent:  He should be burned over and over again until he dies, but he will escape any severe punishment.  They can’t keep detracting too much more from the comics, can they?

 

  1.  Did this episode make things clearer or murkier in regards to your view on whose side Eugene is on?

Bob:  It was clear to me that Eugene feels safest with Negan.  And he feels valued. (That is the awkward thing.  Eugene stopped feeling valued the moment he revealed that he was living a lie.  Now, Negan values him and gives him control. I don’t blame him for whatever path he chooses.)

Bitty:  Murkier. Do you think Eugene would make bullets that would explode when they are fired, killing saviors?  (That seems to be the seed that they wanted to plant in our collective imaginations, I feel.)

Chris:  Murkier.  I was sure he was all Negan, but I got the vibe at the end that he’s gonna turn on him.  I can’t really offer a reason. Maybe what Rosita said to him made an impact. (Is there also a part of you still thinking that it has to be back on track with the comics at some point?)

Kent:  The Rosita and Daryl kidnapping scene serves no purpose if he doesn’t turn against the Saviors.  Otherwise, what purpose did it truly serve? I don’t really see an endgame otherwise. If Eugene kills Daryl though, I accept that.

 

  1.  What impact will Carl’s letter ultimately have on Rick?  What did Michonne hope to accomplish by reading Carl’s letter to Negan?

Bob:  Carl’s letter has produced a conflict in Rick, a moral check if you will.  Michonne just can’t leave well enough alone and got nosey. This is ultimately going to split Rick’s attention but since Rick is ..  unable to be killed..? Blah, I simply dislike every part of this dynamic. (I like everything about your answer.  I have nothing to add.)

Bitty: I’m so angry about the way Rick is acting. He really needs to listen to Carl. It was important that Negan hear out the letter. Michonne doesn’t want to keep fighting everyone either.  (It almost feels like RIck partially realizes just how deep he is into this war and feels that since he is indestructible, he can just win this.  It is not a good thing.)

Chris:  I think Rick ultimately does want peace, but I think he cannot contemplate that without killing Negan.  I think unlike the comics, Negan will die, but not from Rick. I think Michonne is just trying to stop the killing.  (I really fear for Negan’s life.  Really, do we even want to see Rick and Negan on the same side eventually?  I don’t think I do for the TV versions. Especially without Carl.)

Kent:  I think Rick will be fine next season and probably be the big hero.  I think Rick’s character needs that win after this season, probably more than anybody else.  I don’t know if Negan is surviving this one. Not much need for it, unfortunately. Michonne believes in Carl’s message more than either Rick or Negan and she needed to make that effort.

 

  1.  Did the Aaron in Oceanside territory add any intrigue whatsoever to the overall story in your opinion?

Bob:  No, it seemed very predictable to me.

Bitty:  It’s a stretch to reconnect Oceanside to the storyline.

Chris:  No. I like Aarons character (the scenes with him were great last week), but I just find the Oceanside characters really boring.

Kent:  I am glad that I am not the only one feeling zero connection to this inane community.  Their whole story has proved to be very pointless in my opinion. Oh, we had the Simon reveal, but none of this was needed.  Aaron is a good character. He deserves better. Oceanside is the proverbial square peg trying to be shoved into a round hole.

 

  1.  Did you like the reveal that Simon orchestrated the male massacre of the Oceanside community?

Bob:  I missed that.  (I had to rewatch it to understand it.  Don’t feel bad.)

Bitty:  why the hell do I miss these things?!!  (See my response to Bob.)

Chris:  Yes. It makes sense for the story.  As weird as it sounds, Negan wouldn’t kill all the men.  People are a resource. (Negan is the most rational leader in this show, aside from Jadis.  He values his group, even if it is for his personal gain.)

Kent:  I have wondered just how much of  a bad ass Simon is, and we have learned in the past few episodes what he is willing to do.  Simon is one of the best original characters on this show. Great arc for him.

 

  1.  Did you like Gregory’s confidence this week?  Is there any place left for Gregory, in your opinion?

Bob:  Haha, no. No.  I wouldn’t miss him. (Your answers makes me a sad panda.)

Bitty:  He should be working for Eugene. He was pretty comical this week.  (I love that idea.  Eugene and Gregory having a nice dialogue would be incredible.)

Chris:  I love Gregory!  He’s just an arrogant prick.  He’s always going to be working to try and thwart Maggie, and turmoil is good for the show.  I think Maggie will eventually let him out of his cage. (What I am loving more and more about gregory is that no matter how little power or control that he has, he still demeans people by not calling them their preferred name.  I don’t even like saying Maggie anymore. Margaret is a better name! He is hilarious.)

Kent:  Yes, obviously I would.  I have been down with Gregory since the beginning.  He is such a great actor and he has made Gregory such a fascinating character.  I hope that he never grows a pair though. Never change this guy to give him some convoluted arc.  Gregory has no place where he can be trusted. Although The Saviors may need a new leader soon.

 

  1.  Will Gabriel experience a miracle and make it out of this war alive?

Bob:  Sure, I will stick with his name meaning.  “God is my strength.” (I agree, and I like it.  If he does die, I just hope it is in some meaningful way.  He’s probably one of my 5 favorite characters remaining with Carl and Simon now gone.)

Bitty:  Gabriel is a confusing character. I haven’t seen a place for him since we first met him. (I loved him as Judith’s protector.  That was my favorite role for him oddly enough.)

Chris:  Yes! His character is finally awesome.  They can’t kill him now. Plus, his death would be predictable.  I think if Eugene turns on Negan, he will rescue Gabriel. (Well, Eugene saves some characters in the comic…..I think.  My memory sucks. So Eugene saving Gabriel would be a good thing.  Eugene needs a win too.)

Kent:  If anybody is going to have a miracle and not have the last name of Grimes, it feels like Gabriel is the perfect candidate.

 

Bonus Deuce

  1.  What was your favorite or least favorite Simon moment?

Bob:  When he took Gregory’s booze.

Bitty:  I became even more angry with him when he said they’d still go after the Hilltop.

Chris:  when he took Gregory’s painting!

Kent:  Anything between him and Gregory was pure gold.  Also, i loved that he wanted to fight Negan. It was ballsy.  But probably the booze thing is the best.

 

  1.  It is known that the TV series has veered significantly away from the comics.  Even if you don’t read the comics, I want you to consider this question. Is it better for a show or movie to stick close to the written material, or to drift off some and make it unique?

 

Bob:  TV should have it’s own story.  It’s a different media than comics.

Bitty:  I do not read the comics and I love this show. It’s a tough balance for the creators and writers. They are trying to appeal to everyone

Chris:  Make it unique.  Half the people who watch the show don’t read them.  I read them, and it would be boring if ev (I don’t believe that Chris’ sentence got saved, but we can safely assume where he was going with this one.)

Kent:  I like the TV show to drift.  My complaint is that when they really do something great in the comic, try to stick to that stuff, like Carl and Negan.  I didn’t feel that Glenn had to die at the lineup. I felt it could have been a few other people, notably Maggie.Still, because of the TV show veering, we have Carol and Morgan still alive, we had a Merle, Daryl, Simon, and others that have been wonderful.  

 

Final Thoughts – Make any final predictions for how things go down in the Season finale next week.  Have fun.

Bob:  A lot of cliff hangers with no conclusions.

Chris:  Eugene’s bullets will backfire, taking the Saviors off guard.  Team Rick will rally to win after Dwight escapes. Lucille is destroyed, leaving Negan destitute and ready to be executed by Rick.  Rick raises his hatchet to a kneeled Negan, ready to strike him down, but instead throws his hatchet into the ground. After reading Carl’s letter, Rick is a changed man.  Rick and Negan hug it out while Michonne says, “They did it for you Carl. They did it!” Morgan stabs Negan with his stick and says, “What the hell is wrong with all of you! Screw this, I’m leaving for FTWD!”

Kent:  Something big happens that causes Morgan to leave, which could be Rick sparing negan’s life or killing negan.  Tara, Dwight, or Daryl dies. Sherry returns. Dwight kills Laura. A lot of Oceanside gets wiped out.

____________________________________________

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The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:8 Ep:14 :Still Gotta Mean Something”

This week, Simon leads the Saviors to the Hilltop and we have biological warfare.  Tara, Tobin, and Kent are all attacked with varying results.  Rick doesn’t want to do much talking.  Henry is trying to be Carl Jr. and failing.  All of this and more in this week’s blog.  My name is Kent, and I ask 9 episode-specific questions, and 2 bonus questions, and that’s how we get the 9 Deuce.  Any comments in BOLD are written by me.  I hope you enjoy and if you or someone you know may want to do this blog, contact me, leave a comment, whatever.  The contact info is at the bottom of this blog.

____________________________________________

The 9

 

  1.  We have seen Rick really turn out to be an interesting guy.  Did you agree with his decision to kill the Saviors who wanted refuge at Hilltop?

Bob:  I know in the moment we are more likely to say No no, that was bad.  However, I will stand by my former decision about taking prisoners at all.  Rick did what should have been done before. I am not even certain the converted Saviors are safe from Rick.  (Good call on the converted Saviors. Is anybody really going to say no to Rick Grimes if he wants to kill any of the leftover Saviors?  I doubt it.)

Bitty: It was unexpected that’s for sure. I want to agree I really do but I keep thinking that they need more people on their side. People are resources and he needs to see that.  (Here, we have the flip side to Bob’s perspective.  This is why Negan has such a huge army and Rick doesn’t.  Negan knows that people are resources.)

Chris:  I am torn.  Clearly not all the saviors are bad people.  He probably did the right thing, but went about it the wrong way.  (The hard part for me is to figure out what the “right” way would have been.)

Kent:  Really, what else was he supposed to do?  These Saviors are out for Rick’s blood and his group’s.  To the people with a mindset like Bitty’s, my question would be, how could he have trusted them, after they cleared that place out, is Rick going to trust them, or Morgan for that matter?  Still, for all of Rick’s aggression, where was that attitude towards any number of individuals that screwed his plan up last half season to unleash hell at Sanctuary? That’s the difference.  Negan would have punished Daryl and put him in line because he’s a good soldier. Rick doesn’t do anything. Also, the word resources has been used, but that’s really the biggest issue, a lack of food resources at Hilltop.  Now you want extra mouths to feed? Yikes.

 

  1.  Was Jared right all along?  Also, you can talk about his cool death scene.

Bob:  Haha, this scene was so very pleasing to me.  It was definitely a climax. I would get the sense that Jared would have been able to break free with the adrenaline rush but that is no match for mental health issues strength.  (You know I liked the character and yet I found the scene incredibly satisfying.  He outlived my expectations, so kudos to him.)

Bitty:  Jared was a Jerk. He couldn’t think past pleasing Negan. He also was “too far gone”. His death was intense for me. I had to look away when his face was torn off but when Morgan threw up his hands that was enough closure for me. (The whole pleasing Negan thing was always his problem.  I can’t imagine Simon or Dwight tried to suck up that much.  Jared was just a soldier or a thug, the heavy, never meant to be a leader.  I think he was delusional too.)

Chris:  Jared got a death he deserved.  That blank stare by Morgan though.  So cold…… Scarier than the flesh-eating zombies.  (The Morgan stare was incredible.  It was perfect. Lennie James never lets me down.)

Kent:  Jared was right in wanting to escape all along.  Jared was right in a lot of things. Jared was also delusional in thinking he was ,pre than just a cog in the wheel, a very unimportant cog in the wheel.  Still, he was a great “love to hate” character. His scenes with Richard were really some of the best stuff of season 7 in hindsight.

 

  1.  Is Henry the new Carl?

Bob:  No. That’s all the answer that deserves.  (I think you speak for a large majority of the audience.)

Bitty:  I really hope not. We just don’t know enough about him. Plus I’m getting annoyed with the same story line for Carol and the kids.  (Carol having to film a scene in the exact same location where Sophia was left, come one.  Callbacks are one thing. The same exact location was sloppy in my opinion. Carol deserves better.)  

Chris:  It’s looking that way, though I’m hoping I’m wrong.  His age is more appropriate for where Carl is during the war in the comics.  I don’t know if they are doing the whole thing with Alpha and Lydia next season, but Carl’s story is so important there.  (When I read your answer, it made me angry again.  It’s such a good story and you can picture Carol in Rick’s role in the comics to find Carl in that storyline.  I fear that is where they are going with it. That makes me sad and angry.)

Kent:  When Henry survives getting shot twice, grows his hair out, tells off his father figure, and eats a big ass can of pudding, we can talk.  Til then, oh helllll no!

 

  1.  What do you make of Jadis and the helicopter now?

Bob:  Jadis wants out and sitting around the garbage all day… I would know all the times and patterns that were occurring.  (Yeah, really, what else did she do during the time in the heap?  You would keep all kinds of mental notes I would assume.)

Bitty:  Love this! She knew the helicopter would come back and was ready for it. I’m curious about her living arrangements. Did they all live underground?  (I am going to say that she had dibs on this room, but there’s not a whole complex underground.  Of course, I could be wrong, I am thinking the budget for that wouldn’t be worth it. Cool idea to consider.)

Chris:  She clearly knew who they were.  Now I’m thinking the whole garbage people thing was just so people would never ask them any questions.  She clearly has access to nicer things (I.e that bedroom with all new fixtures.) (I really want an episode about only the Scavengers.  Like how they came to be and how they lived. I think that would be such a great episode, and way better than so many episodes last half season.)

Kent:  She knows way more than she let on and that is why her group always took the better deal in hopes of being left alone.  She’s got connections it would seem, and access to some cool stuff. It makes sense why The Scavengers flip-flopped so much.

 

  1.  Do you foresee Jadis and Negan working together again?

Bob:  I will say yes but what this REALLY made me think about was Rick and Negan coming together.  Negan seems to be able to have that effect. (Negan is all about bringing people together.  He’s just a lovable guy.)

Bitty:  No. I think we will loose Jadis at the end of this season. (I don’t like your attitude or your prediction.  She’s a survivor, she’s got Thug Life written all over her.)

Chris:  No, I get the impression that it was a one-off deal.  Plus there’s a good chance one or both of them will be dead by seasons end.  (OKay, 2 of you people predicting doom and gloom.  This makes me sad. The war has to end with some huge casualty though it would seem.  Was there on though in the comic? I really can’t recall.)

Kent:  Jadis and Negan will meet again down the road.  That’s the best I can offer at this moment.

 

  1.  Has Negan become more likeable than Rick?

Bob:  Yes. I began liking Negan after his episode with Carl.  He has brutal methods, a little beyond Hammurabi’s code but it gets the point across.  Negan is almost what we need in our snowflake society. (Yeah, we do need to toughen up a bit.  Also, I didn’t know who Hammurabi was, and I was hoping that he was a sidekick to MC Hammer, but his story was relatively interesting.  For those of you not familiar, here you go.)
Hammurabi

Bitty:  We all know where I stand on this. I have always been a fan of Rick and his ideas but there have been moments in every episode where I see the light of Negan. It’s safe to say my hatred for Negan is less and less every season. (Before you know it, you’re going to be singing Little Richard’s “Lucille” on your way to work.  It’s going to happen.)

Chris:  He was always more likeable.  I mean who else could pull off saying ridiculous things like “What the shit?!?”  At the same time, he did brutally murder my favorite character, but I still blame Daryl for it.  It seems like every season Rick goes through the same moral crisis. He’ll Read Carl’s letter and now he’ll be Officer Friendly again.  (I enjoy Rick as Officer Friendly.  It’s just weird when he is the main character.)

Kent:  Negan may have always been more likable due to his charisma.  When was the last time that you got super excited at a Rick moment?  When he killed Gareth maybe? When he killed Porch Dick? I am seriously asking..

 

  1.  Why can’t Daryl, and to an extent Rosita, leave well enough alone?

Bob:  Who is Rosita?  And after thinking about Daryl of old…  Neither one of them are team players and are both just angry.  (This is a perfect display of Rick’s weakness.  He shouldn’t allow either of them to run roughshod the way that they do.)

Bitty:  They both need to stay busy. They are very similar, both out for a fight and both out to end the war. However they try to find a different angle every time. (They are the person in the room when everybody else agrees, they have to be different just for the sake of being different I feel.  Like attention seekers of the apocalypse.)

Chris:  It seems the show has to have someone wanting to kill Dwight at all times.  Daryl has become too whiny this season. While I’m not the biggest fan of his, this season he’s been basically a throwaway character.  I think Rosita is justified in wanting to kill Eugene. He did betray them (or did he????) (The thing with Rosita is that SHE tried stepping up to get taken captive rather than Eugene when The Saviors took Eugene away after killing Spencer.  I hate how they did her character at times. I feel it must be difficult to portray her character.)

Kent:  Daryl is just mad because he hasn’t had a good storyline since we last heard Easy Street.  Rosita……I like that she wants to do stuff, I just hate her methods, basically. Just go attack and get killed or kill.  Just do something and end it.

 

  1.  Who do you like to see Carol paired up with the most?  I am not referring to a relationship because that is lame.  I simply mean as a person that she shares screen time with? You can go past or present if you choose.

Bob:  Negan.  His charisma and his cunning nature would be a very intriguing compliment to Carol’s viciousness and manipulative ways.  (Huh, you are right.  Have they ever met? I am thinking that they haven’t.  Negan would be enthralled by her I think.)

Bitty:  Carol needs to have more screen time with adults. I’d like to see her in charge with Maggie and the other lady from the Kingdom (not sure of her name).  (Not sure if you are referring to Dianne or Nabila.  I am fine with Carol and Dianne going out and doing some work.  They are both badasses. I want to have Nabila and Jerry in scenes together.)

Chris:  Merle. They would have some awesome conversations, and be an unstoppable killing machine!  I agree with the above comments. She is always put with kids. It would be nice to see her hanging around adults for a change.  (Yeah, that’s a guaranteed gold star.  I miss Merle so much. Makes me want to watch Hypothermia again, which was filmed not too far away from here on the Sacandaga Lake.)

Kent:  Ed……I kid I kid.   I think her and Abe could have been fun as hell because he’s funny and she has some witty lines.  Everybody chose well here. We all win.

 

  1.  Will Morgan remain on TWD past this season?

Bob:  No, let’s call it quits, he needs to be somewhere else.  (Awww, I want to keep him.  But somewhere else boosts a show that needs some serious boosting.)

Bitty:  I don’t see his character remaining on TWD. His story line has gone full circle now and he needs new material. (Will it truly be new material?  I am curious.)

Chris:  I think when this is over he has to leave for his own sanity.  I don’t think he’ll be back on TWD. He’ll be a good fit on FTWD.  (He actually is a good fit on Fear.  I’m very excited for it.)

Kent:  He’ll make a comeback on TWD.  Morgan was always meant to last until the very end.  Believe that.

 

Bonus Deuce

 

  1.  If Rick got bit, would he die?  

Bob:  This depends on whether or not he was bitten by a walker or not. 😉 (Goooo on….)

Bitty: If Rick got bit he’d have someone cut off whatever appendage got bit and not die. (He’d cut it himself.  He is gangster.)

Chris:  Well, since last week I suggested he might be immune, I guess I’ll go all in.  No, he won’t die. (I basically asked this for your theory’s benefit.  I feel I have done my job.)

Kent:  No, just no.  He’s like Hulk Hogan.  He does no job for a scrub.  Wrestlemania is tonight….brother!

 

  1.  We know that Morgan is going to be on Fear The Walking Dead.  First of all, do you watch that show? Secondly, will his time on the show send us back in time between the Clear episode and him tracking the group to Alexandria, or will it take place in present TWD time?

Bob:  I do watch FTWD.  I think Fear will just catch up on the timeline.  But it’s an interesting thought to think that big gap in time for Morgan on TWD would be him on Fear…

Bitty:  I only watched the first Season and couldn’t get into it. I may try again now that they are further into the apocalypse. I’m not sure if the timeline with FTWD so I’d like to say it’s in the present.

Chris:  Yes, Fear is awesome.  I think it will be present time, but I would think there would have to be a time-skip on Fear for it to make sense.  From where Morgan is now to where Fear takes place, pretty long walk.

Kent:  Yes I shall.  Back in time we go, although if you think about time frams, Fear Is close to caught up because TWD had 3&4 & 5 all close in months  Then 6 & 7 & 8 all happened close by. Think about it.

 

Final Thoughts – Aside from Simon, do you think we will get any other major character deaths between now and the end of the season (2 episodes remain)?

Bob:  Eugene.(BOOOOOO Bob BOOOOO.  They already killed one of the 2 most important people, so why not?)

Bitty:  The core crew will remain but we will most likely see Jadis and Gabriel die. I keep routing for Gabriel to kick it.   Are we going to mention Jesus? His quick cameo appearance the other week? Where’s Oceanside? What is the time frame between the killing of Glen and Abe until now?  (Shouldn’t Jesus have returned last week for Easter?  I cannot be the only person to have wondered this. Also, I have spent time on your theories.  We will discuss later. But Mania…..ya know.)

Chris:  Tara, Tara, and Tara.  In all seriousness, I do think she’s going to sacrifice herself to save Dwight.  Also, Jadis , a crapload of Saviors, and the worst death of all, Lucille. Also, WHO GOT IN THE CAR WITH NEGAN?!?!?  My guess is Ghost Lori! (I think it was Gregory in Negan’s car.  I hope it is at least, and yes, Tara sacrifices herself.)

Kent:  Gregory, Tara, and Daryl.  I think the Saviors are safe by and large.  

____________________________________________

All the pictures used in this blog are for review purposes. They are the property of:

Please go find a copy and support the creators.

The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:8 Ep:12 “The Key”

This week, if you like women empowerment or Rick and Negan doing silly shit, then this was the week for you!  We also got to see a glimpse of what Simon would be like if he ran the Saviors.  All of this and more in this week’s blog.  My name is Kent, and I ask 9 episode-specific questions, and 2 bonus questions, and that’s how we get the 9 Deuce.  Any comments in BOLD are written by me.  I hope you enjoy and if you or someone you know may want to do this blog, contact me, leave a comment, whatever.  The contact info is at the bottom of this blog.

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The 9

 

  1.  Rick’s car chase with Negan was the silliest thing in the Walking Dead since _______?

Bob:  Glenn survived underneath a garbage can.  (I figured somebody had to take one of my 2 answers.  I could probably provide 17 of them, but this is one that always sticks out because there is actually evidence that I painstakingly gathered to prove that they filmed it poorly just to be like “Hahaha, gotcha!”)

Bitty:  Maggie having a teeny tiny baby. (I think Herschel will be a good sized 3 year old coming straight out of her baby cannon.)

Kristi:  Killing off Carl. Cooorrraaalll!  (If you take it literally, Coral’s death was the last BIG silly moment, and one that still makes me want to don my Jigsaw mask and play some games.)

Chris:  Casting Tara. (I read this the day you wrote it, and I laughed.  I came back a day or two later, forget this, and I laughed again.  This is one of the most brilliant responses in this blog’s history.  Kudos, and a gold star.)

Kent:  I could write an essay about it.  One of the 5 biggest badasses getting bit earlier in the season, but Rick is just tossing them around this week and seemingly every week when him and Michonne are doing silly shit.  So many Rick and Michonne scenes, the “in the nick of time” scenes that they have been employing lately. But I want to take you back to season 5. Daryl and Carol saw the car and were looking for Beth.  They get in an ambulance. I have not edited these photos, they are in chronological order as seen in the episode. Physics are a hell of a thing and this along with Glenn were the only 2 instances that made me so crazy that I had to go frame by frame and screenshot.  Also, never forget Herschel’s unlimited ammo in season 2 finale.

 

  1.  Did you feel a little uncomfortable with Rick wielding Lucille?

Bob:  actually, I did.  I felt uneasy like something was just out of balance.  Why would Rick sleep with another man’s wife? I was wondering if he might accidentally prick his hand on the barbs.  (Well, he did sleep with Lori when he came back, and I believe Shane had clearly yelled “Claimed” one night in the tent, so per Joe and the Claimers, rules are rules.  So Rick is basically a terrible person. And yeah, why would they already have Negan dip Lucille in blood only to have Rick, the one character who can’t die, be the first to wield her unknowingly?  This was silly itself.)

Bitty:  That scene was aces. Rick holding her was epic. I wish he had gotten pricked by her or something. At least we know how to push Negan’s buttons now.  (Rick the Prick getting pricked would have been poetic.  It’s good to show Negan’s weaknesses of sorts. It was a fun role reversal for a bit.  Had I never seen an episode, I would have wondered if Rick was a bad guy.)

Kristi:  Yes I did. He didn’t know it was covered in walkers blood so I was concerned he may cut himself.  (But….but Carl was a visionary and he knows that Rick and Negan will garden someday.  Carl somehow also knew that Rick would have a cane. Seriously, why is nobody questioning this???  How does Carl know that his dad ends up with a cane? Did he read the comics?)

Chris:  Yes. You don’t take someone’s girl.  And you certainly don’t light her on fire and start hitting walkers with her.  What did Negan ever do to Rick to deserve this? Oh wait… (It is kind of funny though to picture Rick picking up a female, lighting her on fire and swinging her at walkers at the most absurd level.  I like this mental image. Maybe make it Hilary Swank.)

Kent:  Of course I did, or I wouldn’t have asked the question.  So now there’s a part of me that hopes Negan captures Michonne and sets her on fire to prove a damn point.  Make it a bad burning, like when Andrea from TWD got burned alive in Silent Hill. Eugene could rig that up.

 

  1.  Does Maggie have a bit of The Governor in her?

Bob:  No. She has angry pregnant lady syndrome.  (I will be so glad when I can stop saying that pregnant lady hormones are a hell of a thing, but this pregnancy is just going on and on and on.)

Bitty:  I hadn’t thought of this until they mentioned it on Talking. I could see that storyline happening only because she is still so bitter. (Hypothetically, if we can get Maggie to a point where Governor was during negotiations with Rick right before Herschel gets got, I would be on board.  Like Simon gets captured and Negan comes to make a deal and Maggie borrows Michonne’s sword and we get a slow-motion clip of Maggie saying NO and beheading Simon, then we could be onto something.  Until then, nah.)

Kristi:  I don’t think so. She is just trying to survive and keep her people alive. She made the right choice in the end. (Until we learn that Georgie is the next big bad evil after the next big bad evil thing.  I still struggle to believe that we will make it that far on the show though.)

Chris:  She just needs an eye patch.  In all seriousness, I think there is the potential for her to snap like the Governor, but I think she is inherently a good person.  She has been through a lot, so I couldn’t blame her for becoming a ruthless dictator, but she has people with her to keep it from happening.  (Yeah, even if Jesus wouldn’t roundhouse some sense into her, Morgan and Carol would shut that shit down if they saw her change too much.  By the way, I really want to do a couples fight to the death tournament. Rick/Michonne, Carol/Morgan, Tara/Denise hahaha, Daryl/Beth, Carl/Enid, Abe/Rosita, Shane/Lori, Governor/Andrea, etc.)

Kent:  Nope, Maggie isn’t smart like the Governor in that capacity.  She is very good at manipulation, but Governor was good at manipulation, but also had a plan.  He had a scientist working on make a better tomorrow and to learn about current threats. Governor had a plan that was still the best.  He just didn’t have the right people supporting him. Maggie has the better supporting cast, but she doesn’t have the foresight. She also doesn’t have the supplies in all fairness.

 

  1.  Are you relieved that Rick and Daryl appear to be on the same page again?

Bob:  Meh. I am not terribly impressed with all the guilt riding on Daryl.  (I think whoever wears the vest ends up feeling guilty forever.)

Bitty:  That was a real awkward bro moment. I don’t think we’ve heard Daryl talk that much in awhile but I honestly don’t think it worked with his character. A simple nod or should pat would’ve been sufficient and more ‘Daryl’. (Yeah, Daryl is a guy that opens up to Carol and Beth and that is it.  Not a fan of this scene.)

Kristi:  It really wasn’t a concern for me in the first place so I feel no different.  (Yeah, most people didn’t give a damn, but here we are having this conversation because they impose it’s importance.)

Chris:  The Daryl/Rick thing didn’t interest me in the first place.  Daryl has surprisingly felt like an afterthought to me this season.  At least they didn’t hug it out. (Daryl is going to have a big season next year I think.  That or his riding with Norman Reedus show will suffer. Actually, he’s better in that show than he is in TWD, ha.)

Kent:  Wow, I thought somebody would have cared, but everybody seems to give as many F’s as I do, and that would be zero.  I may have to listen to Easy Street now to feel more enthused finishing this blog.

 

  1.  We know that Jesus is out scavenging.  Will we get any updates on his character, or will he just show up to save the day randomly?

Bob:  I forgot about him.  I think we will get an update maybe with a new group connection? ORRRR he will show up as a prisoner.  (I definitely thought about him being a prisoner.  I don’t think it will happen due to time constraints, but it was something I thought of.)

Bitty:  Who’s Jesus again? Oh right, one of the really awesome characters that we never see anymore. Maybe he’s chilled on the beach with Oceanside. (I don’t think you are that far off with Oceanside.  I’ll explain in my answer.)

Kristi:  I also forgot about him! I think he will show up with some more survivors to join the group. After all, these people being taken out, they need to start adding some fresh characters.  (Entirely possible that he found a group of Red Shirts that Negan had bullied or some nonsense.  Otherwise, a fresh group wouldn’t just join…..oh wait, it’s TWD….my bad.)

Chris:  I think he will show up to help fight the Saviors.  I forgot about him to be honest.(Doesn’t this just scream a TWD moment of extreme convenience of him showing up at the exact right moment?)

Kent:  Notice that 3 of the 4 people above me had forgotten about this beloved character.  Odd right? I have my theories. Obviously, he could have found Heath. That would be best case scenario and therefore least likely.  I miss Heath. Here is my best guess. He’s either showing up at the moment that they need him most or think about this. Jesus finds Aaron in some capacity.  Maybe he is a prisoner of Oceanside, or maybe he meets Aaron by happenstance. Let’s face it, they have 2 gay male characters. Like they ain’t gonna make that shit happen.

 

  1.  Should Dwight have tried to take out Simon when they were alone?

Bob:  Not at all.  He is very afraid right now.  In other words he is all good but the carpet could be pulled out from underneath him at any moment.  (It’s interesting that Dwight is in some ways one of the most vulnerable and most powerful characters at the moment.  He’s playing the long game and taking calculated risks.)

Bitty:  No, Dwight is still trying to figure out the right angle. Plus I think he thought that Simon would just pick up roots and leave. Not kill everyone first.  (Simon did mislead him to an extent, and that’s why Simon is the man.  The man who is going to die very soon, but still the man.)

Kristi: If he knew what he did to the garbage people, I think he may have. I think he was hoping he had some good in him. (Interesting take.  If he knows about the Scavengers, does Dwight buy into any of Simon’s rhetoric?  I doubt it. I hadn’t considered that aspect.)

Chris:  Perhaps, but it was also risky.  He’s still undercover, and there was the potential Negan was nearby.  Plus Simon is a badass. I’m not sure he can beat someone with that kind of mustache. (The fear factor of Negan being nearby was my initial thought.  I did wonder though, if Negan witnessed it, would Dwight have felt any repercussions from Negan?  Also, and I was going to include this in my answer, but I think people underestimate Simon’s toughness.  I think he is a scrappy, dirty fighter that is tough to kill.)

Kent:  Spoiler alert if you haven’t seen last season’s Game of Thrones and that potentially matters to you, skip my response.  Okay, so remember when Jaime made the decision that he had to try to kill Dany when he had that opportunity, despite Drogon being there?  Not many people agreed with me, but I felt that he had to take that chance to kill her, no matter how small his odds were because he may never get another shot at winning the war for his side.  In this case, I think Dwight should have gone for the kill. Negan was assumed injured, escaped, and hiding, or potentially dead. That leaves Dwight and Simon as the top dogs. Dwight wants to end this war.  With one 50/50 chance, he can be the hero. You’re damn right he should have taken that chance because then he is way more in control of his destiny than in any other scenario. In the ZA, being in charge of your destiny as much as possible is incredibly important.  He should have taken that chance in my opinion to end it all.

 

  1.  Did you want Maggie to trust Georgie?

Bob:  Yes. For a bad reason. I like Jane Atkinson.  (Yeah, I know that she has been in a few things that you are a fan of, so I assumed you would be pleased.)

Bitty:  Yes!! I’m a huge Criminal Minds fan am so happy to see her join the cast. I hope we see more of her. She’s a cross between Deanna and Dale for me so far.   (I miss Deanna and I have never seen Criminal Minds.)

Kristi:  I did. Although she seemed odd to me, I thought try to keep her captive was a bit extreme. I understand they had food that could help them, but she willingly met so I didn’t feel threatened by her. It was nice to see someone do something nice for a change. (It is refreshing to see, what appears to be an act of kindness.  That would be the third one this season, at least. Carl saving Siddiq, and Oceanside allowing Enid and Aaron to leave unharmed were 2 others.)

Chris:  This whole part was odd to me, but yes I did want her to trust Georgie.  They need someone to break all the tension. I’m excited to see where it leads.  (You’re right.  A character like this adds intrigue and a bit of lightheartedness briefly.  I bet her and Bob Stuckey would have gotten along well.)

Kent:  I am split on this.  I really spent time thinking on this.  In a way, I think the right thing would have been to do as Maggie initially did.  Her people needed the food and they have been tricked or misled so many times, Terminus happened people, so in my mind, I wanted Tobin and Kent to be fed, so I wanted Maggie to keep everything.  But here is why I am glad she did what she did, and it is for a dickheaded reason. The last thing I need is two or more female characters having drama between them in a show that I am partial to.  Imagine how irritating Michonne and Maggie would have been had Maggie just took the food? We got a glimpse of that annoying “We’re women, we can discuss things through” bullshit. Here’s the reality, they would have been catty as hell if Maggie didn’t agree with Michonne’s perspective and it would have devolved.  We all remember Queen Bee Lori at Herschel’s. Was I not supposed to remember that?

 

  1.  Is Georgie trustworthy and will we see her again?

Bob:  I bet she is and I can’t believe we won’t see her again.

Bitty:  again, yes and I hope we do!

Kristi: Yes. I don’t believe she would have given her the book of the future if she had malicious intentions. I do believe we will see her in the future.   

Chris:  Yes and yes.  Though I’m guessing not again til next season.

Kent:  Wow, nobody said no.  What is wrong with you people (or me if I am wrong…damnit)?  I truly believe that Georgie is one of the smartest characters on this show.  She may be nice to her people and strangers, but she has had to rule and in the ZA, you know that she will clash with Maggie and Rick.  Make no mistake about it, I think people are buying into an act. That’s a good thing because it adds intrigue either way. I am just skeptical all the time.

 

  1.  What will Jadis do with Negan?

Bob:  “Mate” with him.  (I don’t know man. I don’t think they are going to be that good of friends.  I do want this to happen though in a very weird way.)

Bitty:  Paint him. Ha! Actually thinking she will trade him for Simon. However, at this point, Negan wants Simon dead so I’m sure so this will be a weird twist. (Yeah, the double cross could be a fascinating plot point that I could enjoy.  I accept that Simon is dyingm unfortunately.)

Kristi:  I’m following my last comment that Negan will let her take Simon out. Once she realizes that Negan didn’t know what happened they will bond in a sense. I need this to happen. (Yes, when I saw the Jadis scene, I remembered your comment from before.)

Chris:  I’ve been wondering.  My first thought was to give him to Rick.  However, I think she will try and make a trade to get to who she really wants, Simon.  (Yeah, Rick can sit this one out.)

Kent:  I don’t see any other good stories that doesn’t involve using Negan as a bargaining chip to get to Simon.  More importantly, what will come of Jadis after her vengeance?

 

Bonus Deuce

  1.  Would the Saviors be better off with Simon running them as opposed to Negan?

Bob:  No. Simon is a believer in Torched Earth.  That’s not good for anyone.

Bitty:  Hell no. The Saviors should keep Negan if they at all can. Simon is power hungry and doesn’t see the “helping people” side of things.

Kristi:  No. Simon is more power hungry than Negan. I will be happy to see him go.

Chris:  I have a feeling we will get our answer next week.  I think Simon’s time as leader will be short.

Kent:  Nobody is taking the bait this week.  Negan is actually the best leader that we have had in this show, for better or worse.

 

 

  1.  I know that this topic comes up a lot, but it is always evolving.  In principle, do you find yourself more on Rick’s side or Negan’s as far as what they are trying to accomplish and the methods that they are utilizing?

Bob:  I find myself not really knowing what Rick stands for anymore. Negan I can still see so even though I don’t agree with it, it is better than chaos.   (I think that is the big takeaway this season.  When Rick is focused and has a good plan and good control, he’s fine, but how often has that truly been?  We got used to how he did things, but a lot of the time, it’s been reckless.)

Bitty:  This question was an easy… Rick… for me, LAST season. However this season I’m slowly going over to the dark side. I wish he hadn’t killed, Glen or Abe or terrorized Rick and humiliated Daryl but his thought process is growing on me. I wish we knew a little more about the workers and their system. They have so many people and Ricks group have so few. He must’ve been done something right. (Yeah, while we want to believe that Negan leads everyone by fear, and he does to an extent, I truly believe that if you gave the Saviors an out, I think most would stay.  That tells me something. Dwight wants out because of Sherry. Other people would also leave if given the chance, I am sure. It’s not like people haven’t left Rick’s group or ideology.)

Chris:  What is Rick trying to accomplish exactly? He’s not very good at killing Negan (we’re talking stormtrooper aim.)  Rick’s answer seems like it’s always killing. He’s angry about Carl, which Negan didn’t have anything to do with.  Plus he always wants everyone else to stick to the plan, then goes off on his own. I’m not either side. Negan is a psycho and Rick never has a plan that works.  Go team Maggie! (If that last word was Ezekiel, I would like it more, haha.  Like, the leaders are supposed to be the smart ones, the ones who are best prepared.  This episode was practically a comedy at times. Maggie is at least accomplishing something at the moment, and has the best place.  The Kingdom is a decent fallback. It’s in better shape that Alexandria, The Dump, and Oceanside.)

Kent:  Negan is the answer.  Everybody has a directive.  Everybody has and serves a purpose.  The plan is to be executed. When people veer off of that path, there are repercussions.  Negan teaches accountability Millennials would hate working with Negan. Rick has punished one whole person, and that is when he gave Carol the boot, one of the most loyal people, who did the right thing.  Rick is not that great of a leader. I feel that for every triumph you can offer, I can come back with more failures, more disobedience. And as Chris said, why the hell was his aim so off this week?

 

Final Thoughts – Also, hey did you know that only women can solve things peacefully while men are barbaric in solving issues?  

Bitty:  Can someone fill me in on where I missed the solar panels and helipad? Also I was reading on another WD blog a theory that Georgie may live under ground. I thought this was a cool theory especially since those twins were all cover up with brim hats and sun glasses, like they hadn’t seen the sun in a long time.  (Simon mentioned the solar panels and helipad last episode or the one before it I think.  I may have the wrong person, but it was brought up. I like the idea of underground Georgie.  It would be smart.)

Chris:  I enjoyed this episode.  I’ve always loved Maggie’s character, and I was happy to see some focus on her.  I think Simon is going to bite the dust next week, but I’m wondering who will get to kill him. (Simon has to die within the next 2 episodes it seems.)

Kent:  I liked this week.  This second half of the season is proving superior to the first half, in my opinion.  I would like to see more Eugene, Gabriel, Carol, Morgan, Negan, Jadis, Simon, and Dwight this week.  Give me half of those and I will be happy.

 


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#25 Stephen King’s IT (1990)

Yeah, I got lazy here. Long story short, by the time we realized we were watching the second half first, I knew that 2 things were happening. 1. We wasn’t gonna stop it immediately go back and then pick up where we left off. 2. I wasn’t gonna go back to watch the first half after seeing the shitty ending. Just not gonna happen. With that being said, when this movie came out, it was scary as hell to kids. I LOVED it and it still holds a special place in my heart. I still want a Pennywise the Dancing Clown tattoo at some point in life. The flaw with this movie/story is how awful it ends, soooo fucking bad. The cast was pretty solid. Tim Curry was amazing as Pennywise, like this role and Dr. Frankenfurter were his penultimate roles. John Ritter of Three’s Company fame was here, as well as a dude from Night Court, Harry Anderson. Seth Green was in this as a kid, it’s funny to look back on him in this. Jonathan Brandis was also in this. My biggest complaint with the cast was the dude who played the older version of Bill. He pretty much sucked. I’m not entirely sure if this movie needs a remake, but I’m ok as long as it gets the time to tell the story, and the casting is solid. Another one of those movies I saw as a kid far too many damn times. And that’s not a bad thing.

The story is of an entity who haunts and torments kids in the town of Derry, Maine. Some things obviously more fucked up then others. When Pennywise gets Georgie, it is horror at it’s finest, well cheesiest. I want to give this my childhood rating, but I cannot, its no as scary anymore, very dated. Giving it a 7.2, deal with it.

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