Yup, let’s do another French horror flick because I’m sadly wide awake. Damn nap!!! I know the basic premise of this plot. I’ll start you off with that because at least I won’t feel like I’m giving away spoilers during the film.
This French chick is pregnant, and she gets home invaded by some crazy broad who wants her unborn baby. And the gore level is supposedly astronomical. That’s all I know. I have to lower my expectations because I haven’t seen hardly any bad movies yet this October, and Martyrs was utterly brilliant. And yes, I plan on tackling Frontiere, Calvaire, and maybe a couple other French films. I see that I only reviewed The Strangers last year and not ILS which was the originator of that story, and really fucking good. Hell, I may get back into Asian Horror while I’m at it.
I am loving these French films because I understand a few phrases here and there without having to read the subtitles. I used to be adequate in French for the amount if time I spent learning it.
So 15 minutes in, and god this is boring. Whatever hype and happiness I had an hour ago has vanished. We know this, her husband/boyfriend/lover and her were in a car accident and he got killed. She is very pregnant. Her friend Louise seems to want to help her out, but this lady keeps saying no. She’s now home alone, having fucked up dreams, and somebody is at the door. It’s apparently Christmas Eve. The person at the door is using the old “my car broke down” angle to try to use the phone. When rejected, the person calls Sarah (pregnant lady) out for lying about her husband being home and sleeping.
I need some Count Chocula. I hope this isn’t some bullshit “scare jump” movie. Those are dumb. Cereal is an underrated form of food, just saying. I wish I had some rice krispie treats now. I’m clearly hungry.
Oh hey, the cops showed up. She called them. Something must happen with the cops in order to make them a non issue with this home invasion.”Don’t worry. She won’t be back around tonight.” That’s a solid cop answer. HAHAHA, oh man, the follow up scene is awesome. At this point, I would be calling somebody so I wasn’t alone at night. And I’m not a 9 month pregnant chick. it’d either be that, or I’d get my jigsaw mask and hope to creep a mother fucker out.
OK, so the woman is in, and the violence has started. Hopefully this momentum can snowball into something fantastic.And the blood has started to flow. OK, you’ve got my attention now Inside. Some of the sound effects are lame, I have to point that out. It doesn’t work for me. Wow, so everytime a stabbing occurs, we gotta hear that awful sound?? I hope not or else I will Sixth Sense the hell out of this film. I’m officially on the fence about this movie at the moment. I’m beyond the halfway point so I’m not gonna stop now. This isn’t All Cheerleaders Must Die bad.
I am sitting here wondering, how does one come to the rational conclusion of “Hey, I’m gonna break into this lady’s house. Then I’m gonna cut the baby out of her. Then I’m gonna live a normal life.”? On the grand scale of plans, this is right up there with whoever greenlit Adam Sandler’s “Jack and Jill”. Yeah, he somehow has a 3 or 4 picture deal with Netflix now. I guess that makes me happy because maybe I won’t have to see commercials for Grown ups 3. OK, OK, back to the film.
Wow, the cops have not done a very good job. And this whole stuff with hiding in the bathroom, this just feels like a game to me. Like really bitch, you couldn’t break into the fucking bathroom? You can do all of this other shit, act like a ninja, but you can’t get past a simple locked bathroom door?
This is turning into one of my biggest pleasures in horror, a series of bad decisions. It’s not “Let’s run upstairs and hide in a closet or under the bed” stupid, but it’s solid. Sarah just made a makeshift sword. I am pleased, and there was a makeshift flame thrower. There was a little bit of bloodshed. Man……it got really fucking bloody. And now it’s over.
My final thoughts are this. It’s a very, very gory film, like one of the goriest I have ever seen. Do not think this is torture porn, as it’s not. This has a good story, you just have to wait and be patient. It is illogical at times, but one can always argue that under that duress, you wouldn’t be thinking clearly either. I liked it. I’m not in love with it. I am going to give it a 6. It’s nowhere near as great as Martyrs, but this is one worth watching if you can stomach the gore, and have some patience, and can handle subtitles.
I don’t own the rights to this picture or film. It’s from the film, so they are the owners, not me.
T & A Totals didn’t change at all sadly.
13 Bare breasts
2 bare asses
2 concealed breasts
All the pictures used in this blog are for review purposes. They are the property of:
Welcome everybody to the only TWD blog that thinks that having a tiger makes you a good leader, The Walking Dead 9 Deuce. Every week, I say positive things, because how else are you supposed to sell yourself to an audience, right? Sometimes though, there just isn’t enough substance from the episode, or perhaps I ask terrible questions, or maybe I am short on contributors that week. My point is that it’s tough for me to try to find a way to truly differentiate to an audience when we have a really great edition, but I truly believe this is easily, one of the 3 best ones that this site has ever done, and I’m really happy with it. Of course, I’m an ego maniac, so oftentimes, I feel that this blog may need my touch. This week, I feel that if I didn’t add a single comment and just asked the questions, the responses were good enough to absolutely carry this. That’s awesome from my perspective. I’m thrilled when I am part of a project where I feel it’s great enough without my contributions, that it can stand on it’s own. So I just really want to give a heartfelt thank you to everybody who reads this, but especially to my people that take time each week to do this thing. They don’t get paid, they just do it to help me out. So thank you so much Briana, Bob, Bitty, Teddy, Cece, Kristi, and Chris. No matter what ridiculous things I say to them in the comments, they keep on keeping on.
This is a super busy weekend for me, thanks to Wrestlemania as well as this being the season finale weekend. Please, if you like wrestling or know somebody who happens to like it, let people know that this blog exists. Finally, I have some exciting news. Starting this month, we are going to start a new monthly blog. It may end up being more frequent, depending on who wants to join in, but for now, it’s like a horror movie of the month blog feature. It’s very similar to this, where I’ll ask my 9 questions and 2 bonus ones at the end. For April 2017, we will be watching one of the all time greatest horror flicks, Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining. If you don’t own it, it is available on NetFlix. If you, or somebody that you know is a horror fan and likes to express themselves, send them my way. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce. Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else. If you would like to participate, let me know. The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits. Please note all messages in bold are written by me. Thank you and please enjoy this blog and enjoy Sunday’s season finale.
If you could change any one aspect of this particular episode, what would you change, or would you keep it as is?
Briana: I would have wanted the Oceanside women to follow instead of just letting them take their guns and sitting back waiting for our guys to do all the work for them. (So this seemed to be the most popular nitpick of this episode, so this also goes for Teddy and Chris’ comments as well. TWD tries it’s best to be a relatively “progressive” show with strong female characters. I was very surprised by this. I was hoping that they would so Negan could kill some of the more annoying ones, but that’s because I’m a jerk.)
Bob: Gregory failing to kill a walker. No matter the value of this scene, I feel Gregory had a chance to work his way toward becoming a Gregor Clegane Instead of a Greg Heffley. (Strong start here for Bob. My love for Gregor Clegane knows no bounds. Greg Heffley, for those who don’t know the reference is not like the Hefty brand garbage bags, but is instead wimpy, wimpy, wimpy. Gregory basically pulled a pro wrestling heel move when the good guy is like “We don’t have to wait until this Sunday, we can do this right here in (insert current city’s name)! Then the heel would pretend like he was going to step up, but then run away like a coward.)
Bitty: I would’ve changed how timid Enid was. I want to see her stronger and more outgoing. Yes she held her own gun and did well but I want her to start shining more. (Remember when there was all that buzz around Enid being with the Wolves? Yeah, me neither. Enid is a cool character and since she’s not in the comic, I hope they make her a better character than Sophia is in the books. She’s going to be tough to do after the war, I feel, but if they get rid of some of these lesser characters, then hopefully they make her awesome.)
Teddy: I wish Oceanside would help honestly, but I understand their fear.
Cece: The episode, although some action, moved very slowly. I’m not sure how it could have improved but it was a bit boring. (I was expecting more than one person to say this. It was painfully plodding at times. I’m all for great, slow burning storytelling, but this type of episode, along with the Richonne episode and the OG Oceanside episode were just placeholder episodes. They knew where they wanted to end the season, what pivotal scene, and realized that they had to stretch things out. In my opinion, more time could have been spent with the Scavengers, their backstory, an update on Sherry’s whereabouts, and Heath’s story. Also, any time spent at the Kingdom is time well spent, or seeing more Hilltop stuff. You may not agree with my choices, but I think most people would agree that time could have been spent wiser this season to tell better or different stories.)
Kristi: I was really hoping the walker would have killed Gregory. (Man, you really hate this man. That’s awesome. I feel the same about Tara. I’m curious which one of us will get our wish first. I think I have worst odds as Gregory is seemingly on borrowed time, whereas Tara is a wild card.)
Chris: Oceanside would have joined team Rick. I hope they still do at some point.
Kent: Tara would have been shot, at least 92 times.
Do you think Negan really wants Sasha to be a member of the Saviors or to simply use her in some way to get back at Rick?
Briana: Maybe a little of both. But mostly to get back at Rick. Having her join in the first place helps him mess with Rick but I assume there’s a grander plan afoot. (Nice, I think that is the first time that the term afoot has been used in this blog space. You’re right, just having Sasha in any capacity, whether she is held against her will or as a potential Savior, would mess with Rick.)
Bob: I am thinking this is just psychological torture. Negan does not need Sasha other than to hurt Rick. Negan knows Sasha will not become a Savior. And Negan is making Sasha feel like she has power and she has NONE. (Good point about manipulating her to think that she has some choice or power. Negan played it really well. I am suspicious if he had anybody keeping tabs on Eugene to see where his loyalty lies. It would only make sense, but it wasn’t something that they showed us.)
Bitty: Negan just wants to use Sasha as a bargaining chip in the end. Negan is not stupid and knows a smart strong woman when he sees one. (I don’t know if I would call her smart. I mean, she ran into Sanctuary like a crazy bitch. She is strong. Arat on the other hand….)
Teddy: Negan likes badass women, he likes to wed said badass women. (I’m just saying, if Sasha went and joined the Saviors and had Negan’s baby, I would be really happy.)
Cece: It’s always about getting back at Rick and the gang. (Isn’t it kinda silly to think that is the picture that they have painted for us? We, the fans, obviously know the threat level of Rick’s posse, but I am trying to think on a bigger scale, does Negan really sit there and worry about F’ing with Rick? Negan is in a pretty good place, I don’t know if he should be all that worried. Obviously, this is a TV show so the good guys have to win, but if you try to consider the reality of it, I don’t think Negan would care. If he did, he would have just killed the threat. Maybe I am overthinking this. OK, no maybe about it, but I’m trying to think outside of the show’s scope.)
Kristi: He is a smart guy. I don’t think he believes she will truly join me. He will try to use her to get intel on Rick but I think she will choose death before that happens. (Yeah, that is also interesting. We know the group branched off to different places, but what does Negan really know? I think it is safe to assume that Negan is still under the impression that everybody from the infamous lineup are still together, which by and large they are, but still, it’s something that I wondered.)
Chris: It’s hard to say with Negan. Probably both? He loves breaking people down. He probably likes Sasha for the same reasons he likes Daryl. (I’m glad that you brought that up. I was wondering what Negan saw in Sasha. Like, he knows that Daryl was an emotional bad ass. He doesn’t know much about Sasha other than she infiltrated Sanctuary and gunned down some people. He doesn’t know that she is a hell of a sniper. I am curious if he seems similar potential in her as he saw in Daryl or not.)
Kent: I say that he doesn’t see any potential in her being a Savior. First of all, he didn’t play her any Easy Street, which pisses me off. That alone is a solid reason. He’s not trying to break her in the way that he did with Daryl and assuredly others. The other thing that I considered is that there is no rhyme or reason for Negan to ever trust her to be a Savior. She came in guns ablazing. He can’t trust that, he’s not dumb enough to do that. With Daryl, he saw similar emotional weakness that Dwight exhibited, and thought that he may be able to break him and build up a loyal servant. They are 2 very different scenarios. One last thing that I feel like bringing up is Sasha’s selfish ways. Everybody gives Rosita shit but Sasha gets a free pass. Why? They are very similar situations. Rosita got Olivia killed and Eugene captured. Sasha got herself captured, and is going to result in 2 deaths, most likely. On top of that, she may have just royally screwed over Eugene, because I theorize that somebody saw Eugene hand Sasha the baggie. So why is Sasha being given a free pass? Because she’s more likable than Rosita to the masses. Sasha not killing herself after her failure and then trying to persuade Eugene was a bitch move. It has to be acknowledged.
Was it wise to leave Oceanside with no guns?
Briana: Not for Oceanside. It doesn’t hurt our guys at all but it definitely leaves them vulnerable. But I think they had a choice. If they didn’t want to be left completely without guns, they could have just gone with them and helped fight. Then they wouldn’t be gunless lol. (I really enjoyed your logic, and it made me think of this quote from an all time great film, Reservoir Dogs. “Yeah, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. I told ’em not to touch the alarm… but they touched it. If they hadn’t done what I told ’em not to do, they’d still be alive.”)
Bob: Alexandrians didn’t leave Oceanside with no guns – they left with all of their guns! 🤣 OMGosh This is the world they live in. Remember, if you aren’t with a group you are against them. So leaving any guns with Oceanside is an endorsement of failing to follow the group and, “OH YEAH!” drink the koolaid! (Really, you just had to go there. To go back like 15 years and say “oh no you didn’t”. The whole theory that if you aren’t with them, then you’re against them is pretty spot on, or the enemy of my enemy is my friend. It does make me wonder how everything settles down between communities after the impending war is over. Also, kudos for Kool Aid references.)
Bitty: The majority of the guns were locked up!! So yeh take the ones that were in the shed but leave them with the one s on their person. This way of some of the Oceanside members changed their mind and came to fight with Rick they would be armed. (As pointed out in this blog, I think there is some sentiment that had Oceanside been left with some of their guns, the Alexandrians and Jesus run the risk of retaliation. Really, what they did was a pretty F’d up thing to do to the Oceanside community.)
Teddy: Well depends, if they truly want out of the fight then that would be the best thing. However if the Saviors find out they helped them then they fucked themselves. (Am I the only person that finds this whole Oceanside community thing a tad contrived? We sometimes talk about the organization of the Saviors. Like, shouldn’t they have been hunted down from the very beginning? If you’re Oceanside, at this point, I say that you feel pretty good all things considered. If Oceanside is discovered, they are pretty much boned no matter what.)
Cece: Not really. They could have taken a few and it would still have been fine. Anyone against The Saviors is best. (In a fair and just world, perhaps, but would you really chance it if you are Rick, and leave Oceanside with some weapons?)
Kristi: Didn’t she say to take the guns? I think I missed something here. (Good chance of it, but honestly, it’s not terribly high on the importance scale, so you’re fine.)
Chris: Probably not, but Alexandria needed the guns. If they don’t take the guns, the Saviors kill everyone anyways. (That’s really the gist of it all. Oceanside with guns won’t stop the Saviors, zero chance. Rick’s group is something higher than a zero chance, so it makes sense.)
Kent: I enjoy how there are slight variations on how people took the question. Some looked at more from Oceanside’s perspective and others took it from Alexandria’s. It wasn’t intended that way, but I am glad that it did. I still question whether they should have simply slaughtered the Oceanside folks. If they aren’t going to be involved in the war, what purpose do they serve for storyline purposes? Or why not consider the option of bringing them to the Kingdom? If the Saviors never come into the Kingdom, then they should be fine. Hey, if it’s good enough for Daryl Dixon, it’s good enough for Oceanside.
Why did the Alexandrians waste those explosives for this takeover?
Briana: In order to do it without hurting anyone. They knew these people were as much victims to the Saviors as they are, if not more so. So this wasn’t about doing damage, just getting what they needed. The explosive worked perfectly for that. (Isn’t it a tad hypocritical of the group, or moreso the writers, when they sometimes show the group as willing to do anything by any means necessary to survive, and then other times, go great lengths to avoid killing an innocent? Like, they were very cool with the idea of not only killing all of the people in that outpost, but then to still take supplies from Hilltop. Total dick move, but it was a worthwhile risk. The writers really manipulate the fans to suit the show’s needs.)
Bob: Pomp and Circumstance. They saved all the lives of OS but also showed power and strength in hopes of having them join them. It was a way of showing them how Ill prepared they were for any attack, especially from Negan. (If you could include Pomp and Circumstance in next week’s season finale blog, I would be very appreciative. It always gets me to watch Macho Man videos. Good point on showing them how ill prepared they were. I like that take, and now wish to proclaim that I came up with it first, but I shall not.)
Bitty: I think there are more explosives. And at this point if the Alexandrians don’t know how to make them they shouldn’t be alive in the apocalypse. (This is a Tale of 2 Kitties, I mean Tale of 2 Answers. I am 100% behind you, but like not too close, regarding your first statement. The second part though, it took me aback. Is this required knowledge for the apocalypse? Now you have me wondering just how ill prepared I am for the ZA. I gotta start learning how to make explosives. I was totally looking forward to the ZA, but now you have shaken my confidence.)
Teddy: Scare tactics. Best way to put down people already scared. (I just really liked this answer. That is all.)
Cece: They wanted to make sure they had their attention. Not too sure they really NEEDED to use them. I think they could have ambushed or something and it would have been the same. (You are the only person here that really potentially questioned if they needed to use them, so you get a point. Well Bob kind of alluded to it, but he got me sidetracked.)
Chris: It was either that, or they would have wasted an enormous amount of bullets. The explosives were able to create a distraction, which allows Rick and co. to catch everyone without having to kill. (I hate the fact that I agree with your point regarding wasting bullets because that means that there is a hole in my argument. Thanks, I don’t even know you, but thanks. Haha.)
Kent: I hate this question because it hurts my head. First of all, they didn’t have Rosita, the explosives expert with them, so there’s a fail. There is no reason that they couldn’t have gone in and taken the group out like they did at the outpost, and saved the explosives for an actual threat. This was stupid theatrics at it’s finest so people can have an explosion. Terrible.
Why didn’t anybody, aside from Natania (The leader), “rise up” against the Alexandrians, especially when the walkers started coming toward them?
Briana: I think most of them know they can’t continue this type of life forever. Everyone wants some sort of normalcy and they’ll never have that really unless they can break away from this hiding and killing everything that moves mentality. Alexandria is their way out of this lifestyle and revenge for their families lost. Natania is stubborn and probably the one who came up with the plan to hide away in the first place. (2 things. 1. In the ZA, half of that phrase is apocalypse, so I have never understood why people think that they can just survive the apocalypse. That’s a heavy word, yet we all think about it. 2. Isn’t it a shame that Natania and Gregory may never meet? Both of them think of themselves incredibly highly, and responsible for keeping their respective groups alive. I want 9 minutes and 2 seconds of them just having a sitdown negotiation.)
Bob: Most of OS is done rising up. They have no Eye of the Tiger ferocity with their current living in fear. OR maybe they are all tired of having their periods the same days every month and we’re in the midst of that cycle except menopausal Natania. (True story, I read this and legitimately raised my hands and shoulders up a bit acknowledging that there is nothing that I can add to this perfect answer. I was very impressed.)
Bitty: Oceanside is a group of women whose men were torn away from them. When they see a group of strong men and woman they will naturally gravitate towards them. Maybe the leader, Natania, had a different story. Maybe she wanted to rid herself of her man. (Ohhhhh, I like that too. Maybe she was in a Carol-esque relationship. Thinking outside the box.)
Teddy: They probably saw them as they saw the Saviors? Could’ve triggered some ptsd issues. (Good call. That seems perfectly reasonable.)
Cece: I’m not sure. I honestly think they’re just used to their own way of living. And of course the walkers are everyone’s common enemy. (To comment on the walkers, I have heard whispers that the walkers aren’t everyone’s common enemy. Sorry, I had to.)
Kristi: They are tired of giving in to the Saviors. They are considering joining Rick and the crew to f some stuff up 🙂 (I know that you are very particular about your music, so I apologize if this song doesn’t meet your lofty standards, but I instantly started singing in when I read your response.)
Chris: I think because most of them agreed and want to fight the Saviors. (Really, out of all of the communities, they seem to have the lousiest day to day living conditions, and I think that’s gotta be a factor.)
Kent: Man, everybody is killing it with the responses this week, and I am sitting here thinking, nah, I have nothing to really offer. I was going to say that she seemed like a woman who has had a hard knock life, much like that ginger orphan. I didn’t have a backstory, and then what Bitty said made a lot of sense. I picture her as never really having a voice pre-apocalypse, and now that she has some power, she doesn’t want to relinquish it. The rest of the OC, I mean OS have nothing to really lose in joining Alexandria’s cause, all things considered.
Sooooo, do you still think Eugene has some master plan or are you starting to believe that he is Negan?
Briana: Yep he’s just the coward we all thought he was and he’s just trying to save himself and join the team he assumes will win. With the Saviors he has comfort and respect he didn’t have in Alexandria. (I tend not to be combative with you, but does playing it smart really equate to being a coward? He saw what “bravery” got Abraham and Daryl, and sure it fit their characters and some people may have respected Abe more, but Eugene is alive. Brave and smart tend not to go hand in hand as often as we would like to see it I suppose, but I think there is some bravery in playing this game that he is currently.)
Bob: The show wants us to believe that Eugene is Negan. This episode convinced me he is not just because we are due for a surprise. Eugene is just mapping everything out in his head and Sasha’s attack puts her (yes, her) life at risk. She isn’t part of the plan. She is the π that has no end point and fouls up Eugene’s algorithm.(Man, I love Pi.There’s an interesting movie directed by Darren Aronofsky, who has gone on to make some amazing films. I agree, Sasha screwed herself and Eugene would be wise to not alter course on his plan.)
Bitty: I wish we saw more of Eugene inside the walls. If we saw more of his story I could speculate better. I am still hopeful Eugene will help Rick in the finale. (I am pro more Eugene. Aside from Gabriel, I don’t think there is a character that developed as much as Eugene did this season so far. Rosita is in that discussion as well. I still think that he has a hell of a story yet to tell.)
Teddy: I still believe he is smart, but I still believe he is chicken shit at times. (Sure, he is chicken shit. Wouldn’t you be if you had his physical capabilities and the knowledge of your limitations? I would, and I have no shame in that.)
Cece: I think he is probably going to end up on Negan’s side. Someone from Alexandria will probably have to pry him from there because he seems too scared to try anything slick. (ohhhh, we have somebody who thinks that he is on Negan’s side. This is exciting. I like getting some opposing views, and quite frankly, if he is Negan, doesn’t that make this whole story infinitely more interesting than the expected “face turn” for him? I love the story that the comic tells, and knowing that the war must end at some point, I would rather have an alive Eugene than a dead one, BUT there is something to be said for a truly great bad guy. I still miss The Governor. I root to see Simon and Gregory every week. Hell, I want to see more Gavin and Dwight. Eugene turning heel, that’s Hogan joining the NWO back in the 90’s level. A guy who became underappreciated and said screw it, if I can’t get the recognition that I feel that I deserve, I’m gonna do me. I should also note that Cece and Teddy has helped me out for Wrestlemania weekend, so just saying, check that shit out.)
Kristi: I still think he has something up his sleeve. (Fortunately, he always seems to have sleeves while in Sanctuary.)
Chris: I hate to say it, but he is unequivocally Negan. (Oh shit, we got 2 people on board this Negan train. Exciting! I wish I knew more about you personally so I could integrate some kind of joke or reference, but I don’t, and I just feel that an Annakin reference is too simple. Feel free to tell me what things you are into so that I can attempt to do better.)
Kent: Hell naw. He is playing this the only way that he can at this moment if he hopes to live a better life than Oceanside ladies. Plus, this is really helping to build up his confidence. I know that people’s perspective of him is somewhat of a coward, Bri and others have said so. I question if it has more to do with confidence. Less confident people shy away from certain tasks or obligations, and tend to fall in line more. He’s definitely an introvert, and I fully believe that he says things in hopes of not being asked to talk too much I really would love to sit down and simply analyze Eugene’s psyche at some point.
Soooooo, do you still think that Gregory lacks the testicular fortitude to pay a visit to Sanctuary? Everybody here said that he was lacking in that department.
Briana: I definitely think he’s lacking balls in a major way but do I think that’s going to keep him from paying Negan a visit? Nope! He’s planning to head there now! However, I don’t think it’s going to be a bravery trip. I think he’s going there to throw himself at their mercy and, like Eugene, join the “winning side”. Probably even sell Maggie and the rest of them out. (I like everything that you said, and yet, I start singing Sell Out by Reel Big Fish. I listen to music while doing this for hours. I gotta say, you paint an interesting picture that I can totally see playing out, and I would enjoy that. True story, Little RIchard’s “Lucille” just came on. This song has become so much cooler thanks to Negan.)
Bob: He is going and is going to report some stuff. I am not convinced the show has us on equal timelines between communities. (Ding ding ding. The show plays with our minds on the time frame of events How much time has really passed since the infamous lineup? We know that Rick and Michonne spent some time. Has this season played out over the course of a week or a month? I think that it is smart to not let us know, in the same way that it’s smart to not give us a definitive map.)
Bitty: Gregory needs to get chained to the fence in Negan’s courtyard. (This isn’t Black Snake Moan, but if Samuel L Jackson showed up for just one episode, or even Timberlake or Ricci, I’d be down with that.)
Teddy: Gregory is still a bitch. Negan does not like that shit. Remember what happened to Spencer. (This isn’t really related, but I gotta say, it is nice to have somebody use similar language that I use on a day to day basis. I think the Spencer incident was meant to actually serve as some foreshadowing, or a pre-cursor.)
Cece: He would never go out of his way to get there. Hell no. He’s a total pussy and obviously doesn’t even know how to kill a walker, let alone some evil dudes at The Sanctuary. (While I concur, despite me trying to argue for Gregory every week, you make me really wonder about something. Like, what is he really hoping to say to Negan, or what is he hoping to get out of the deal? If we take the Spencer incident out of mind for a moment, I have only one real idea. In his mind, he thinks that his loyalty has value, but he’s not considering the fallout of asking for help, or looking weaker than normal. Negan appears to prefer to work with stronger willed leaders who have the respect of their respective group. It seems like Gregory should know that, but maybe I am over thinking it.)
Kristi: He can’t even kill a walker. He is testicular-less.. He really just needs to go away. (I think part of me keeps asking Gregory questions just to see your responses. It’s almost a guilty pleasure. Yeah, you can flip me off for that.)
Chris: I think he will feel like he has no choice. He has already lost his people to Maggie. He will do whatever it takes (besides doing any of the dirty work himself) to be the leader. (Well I wish I had read your response before I typed my response to Cece, but it goes hand in hand. So I will pose the same question to you, is Gregory truly that oblivious to what Negan looks for, or would you say that he knows, but he is a last ditch desperation act?)
Kent: I told you that he would go. I got tons of hate mail for saying it. I was right. (Okay, I didn’t get any hate mail. Nobody even really acknowledges that my answers exist, so it’s cool. I just want to reiterate, as Gregory would, that I was right.)
Do you think that Dwight will betray the Alexandrians before this is all done?
Briana: I don’t know. As much as I can’t trust Dwight, I also think he really does want to be out from under Negan. I think he wants his wife back and his identity back. So I do think his intentions are true as of right now but it is incredibly possible he will betray them at some point for something. (You just gave the most American response possible. You said one thing, but left enough room for the other possibility to occur. It reminds me of South Park’s 100th episode. I think it was called “I’m a Little Bit Country” and was the 4th episode of season 7…I think. You’re right, in this moment, his intentions are true.)
Bob: With the limits already set in the show, no. Dwight said he wanted Negan dead. He means Negan, not communal Negan. That is his only word. Anything else is up for grabs and free will, so no, he will not be “betraying” the Alexandrians. (Sometimes your responses make me have to reread my initial question to see how thoroughly you deciphered it. I really like that. When I hear the term “free will” it reminds me of The Devil’s Advocate with Keanu and Pacino. Oh and Charlize Theron at her pinnacle of hotness, plus the dude who played Coach, Craig T Nelson. A young Heather Matarozzo, the girl in the very beginning, who is a cool actress. My favorite person in it though is the incomparable, Jeffrey Jones. That guy has been in so many great things and he kills it every time.)
Bitty: Yes. He will want to help the Alexandrians and will for a bit but as soon as he comes face to face with Negan he will crawl back to him. (I’m actually surprised that you’re the only one that said this in particular. We have seen Dwight crawl back in various ways in the past, so why would this be any different? More importantly, how dumb would the Alexandrians have to be in order to trust this guy? )
Teddy: Meta gaming: yes. How this is playing out: I still see it being too soon for Dwight’s babyface flip (I wanted to provide a more modern day, well done face turn. The thing is, face turns, by and large, are not done well nowadays. I have been sitting here, scratching my bald head trying to come up with a really good one. The best I have is The Shield turning on HHH and Evolution 3 years ago. I don’t know whether to feel bad that I am forgetting some good recent ones, or if WWE has simply took the joy out of a face turn. Jericho had his turn, but it wasn’t in that organic way of the 80’s and 90’s.)
Cece: From what it seems like, yes. I believe he’s still sour from what Negan has done to him and I believe he wants to truly be a good person. (This applies to you, Kristi, and Chris. Why now? That’s the only real question on my mind. Is it simply due to Sherry running away, or what he had to do in regards to Dr. Carson? I get that everybody has a threshold. I hope that we get a bit more on the why in the finale.)
Kristi: No, I think he is tired of Negan’s crap.
Chris: Hopefully not, but Dwight is kind of a wildcard. I think his wanting Negan dead will keep him loyal to Rick.
Kent: I want to say, I was watching some of the TWD marathon on Saturday night, and I was watching the Carl episode. I realized, and I fully believe that it was intentional, but Sherry is, from my perspective, by far the hottest of Negan’s wives. I know that it’s obviously a matter of taste and whatnot, but really, Sherry is a knockout comparatively. I feel that they did this so that a typical man would see a hot chick and somehow pull even more for Dwight to get the hot chick back. Seriously, this is the kind of analysis that I offer. Dwight will appear to betray the group because Daryl needs something for next season, and I think that will be his main crux. Also, are we led to believe that Dwight landed that hot of a chick? Just putting that out there.
Everybody seems to love Ezekiel and loathe Gregory. People have said that Gregory is useless and that he is a coward. Is there a double standard here between the 2 guys? Please explain.
Briana: No. I think Gregory has proven himself to be a coward. Ezekiel will do what needs to be done to protect his group even if he doesn’t always make the right choices right away. Gregory would give up anyone anytime to save himself. I’m actually not sure whatsoever how he became their leader. (Well, I think that brings up an excellent point. Why craft a character like Gregory, but then never give us a few flashbacks of his story so that we can see how he rose to power? It would provide us with a better understanding, and maybe some appreciation. Who knows? Maybe he was a good leader initially until some things went so far awry that it changed him. Maybe he was a sneaky conniving coward from day one. I wish they would give us that info. Either way, it would make his story far more interesting. Currently, he’s been represented as very one dimensional, which is a shame. Even with the Governor, you may not have liked his tactics, but you can see why he did what he did.)
Bob: Kent. Ezekiel has a cool name and a Tiger and has witticisms written all over the place. Gregory has his name and a nice house. Both are being driven to act. Each group has what they have, but The Kingdom HAS this far kept the Saviors from entering it’s walls. Gregory has been abused and abused. There isn’t a double standard unless you root for the sisters of the poor. (OK, so I had to look up sisters of the poor, because I am not a worldly man. Really, you had me at cool name and a tiger, but then the sisters thing really sealed the deal.)
Bitty: We haven’t seen Gregory do anything productive. His people didn’t know how to protect themselves and they just serve the Saviors. However, Ezekiel is a strong leader and seems to always be in the public eye. He has an “army” who is willing to fight, he goes out on runs and he is just a better leader all around. (I really love your point about how Ezekiel appears more often in the public eye. Once again, that is shown to make us draw some conclusions as to his character. That’s a really good point.)
Teddy: Ezekiel goes out and gets shit done. He works with the Saviors but does not bow down. Ezekiel cares about his “subjects”, Gregory just wants to pee on everything. (Back to the peeing on things! We have continuity. To go with what I said to Bri, I would have liked to see how the initial meetings with Negan went with both the Kingdom and Hilltop. It would have helped serve the characters better. Maybe just never make Oceanside episodes and give us a more thorough explanation. More heads being bashed in to piss off the snowflakes of the world.)
Cece: I say they are definitely not the same person because, whereas Gregory just talks with the Saviors, Ezekiel would be the type to actually get out into the action himself. Difference between a ‘boss’ and a leader. (As it’s my job to give people a hard time, I counter that by saying that Ezekiel goes outside of town like an obedient server and greets his masters. Gregory actually pulls a show of power and actually waits for them to come to him. Yes, we know that it’s all just for show, but is there really a difference?
Kristi: Ezekiel is awesome and has a tiger. Enough said. (See Bob, I told you this is all that you had to write. Kristi gets it.)
Chris: A little bit. They both give in to the Saviors, but at least Gregory is upfront about it. However, Ezekiel stands with his people and doesn’t just look out for himself. (I think that this is the most reasonable response. I would go so far as to say, most arguments against Gregory are really lacking in substance because you can offer examples of Ezekiel doing something similar. The one big difference, once again, aside from the tiger, cool name, and witticisms, is how Ezekiel has been shown to care for his people and Gregory is fine if any of his people die, as long as he doesn’t. )
Kent: Of course there’s a double standard. One has a tiger and the other doesn’t, so everybody is like “Ohhhh Kent, look at the tiger, look at the tiger. Did you see that f’n tiger?” and I’m always like “Mom, stop swearing. Yes, I can see the fake tiger in all of it’s fake glory.” Ezekiel has the benefit of his rule being silly, which people gravitate towards in a series that is so serious. Ezekiel has a kingdom, a throne, and a Jerry. Gregory has a Jesus. While Bitches love Jesus, I think Jerry is actually more beloved, at this moment, especially since the cobbler incident. I will leave you with this thought, and although it doesn’t prove me right, I just want you to consider it. Switch Gregory and Ezekiel’s locations. Gregory runs The Kingdom, has a tiger and a Jerry. He has the same deal, meeting The Saviors outside of the walls, and he acts like a king. Ezekiel stays at Barrington house, doesn’t have the option to meet the Saviors outside of the gates because a member of the Hilltop pissed off the Saviors originally, and they now insist on coming in. That’s not unreasonable in any way, all it takes is one Spencer or Rosita. Who do you really side with? Yeah, you may find that your allegiance is more towards the tiger and Jerry. Just something to actually spend 30 seconds considering before absolutely dismissing me, which I know the vast majority of you are doing at this moment.
Bold prediction time! Do you think anybody is going to die next week? If so, who you got getting got?
Briana: Someone has to die. It’s the season finale! The obvious answer they want us to think is Sasha but I get the feeling her sob story to Eugene wasn’t real. I don’t think she actually was trying to kill herself so much as find a way to defend herself to escape. It feels like Tara’s time has been coming for a while but I don’t think we are that lucky haha. So I’m going to go with Eugene and Dwight.
Bob: Sasha seems like the best pick.
Bitty: Season Finale means death to some. Most likely Sasha and Ezekiel.
Teddy: Given the fact Sasha is on a new show, I say it’s her. Gregory will die but he isn’t a character, period. More like a flea.
Cece: I hope it’s Gregory. And I know for a fact Sasha should be going very soon too.
Kristi: Since this past week was mostly about Tara growing a pair and Sasha, I definitely think it will be one of those 2. I’m thinking Tara.
Chris: I think Sasha is definitely a goner! In a swerve I’m also going to say that…… Simon bites the dust (I hope not though….. At least not yet.)
Kent: I don’t want to comment too much on anybody’s prediction because it would be like me telling you that your lotto numbers are really smart and beautiful or that they are dumb and ugly. Wait, yeah I do want to say one thing. Bitty, really, Ezekiel? OK, I also wanna give props to Bri and Kristi for predicting Tara’s death. That’s an easy way to gain street cred. I’m seeing some that I think are way off, some that actually intrigue me, like Simon, and I hope that Chris is wrong. Oh, and somebody picked Ezekiel……really Bitty?
TWD tends to give lesser characters more screen time when they are close to death. Well, that leads us to Sasha, Rosita, Gabriel, Morgan, and Tara. Sasha is a goner, in my opinion, as soon as I heard that she got a role on Star Trek. I haven’t read any spoilers, so I don’t know, but I would bet my hairline on her death. I can tell you that I suspect a walker to kill somebody, and comic fans know where I am getting that theory from. Alas, the character who got the death that I am speculating on was Denise, so that’s not happening. I think that Rosita is safe, especially if Sasha dies, as it’s a way to remember Abe. Morgan is such a great talent, and he just got his swagger back, so I think that would be a huge mistake on the writer’s part. We don’t need somebody that tier (Rick, Carl, Maggie, Daryl, Carol, Morgan, Eugene, and Michonne) to die. That leaves me with Gabe or Tara, so normally I would say “Who’s been the bigger moral compass?” Tara doesn’t exist in the comic, and Gabriel lasts much longer in the comic, but his role is really small, and his death was really pathetic and almost an afterthought, so the comics don’t help. With the groups appearing to being on the verge of uniting, we don’t need eleventeen moral compasses. Tara’s death would include her apologizing to Rick for not telling him sooner about the guns and maybe make a Denise reference. We lost 2 dudes in the premiere, we then lost Olivia, Spencer, Ben, and Richard, along with the great Fat Joey. The show can afford another female loss, so I am going with my heart and my hopes and my dreams, and predicting Tara. I am also predicting that it will be so sappy that when I ask you if her death made you sad, and somebody says yes, I will furrow my non-existent eyebrows.
Will the season end on a high note or a low note?
Briana: I think it’s going to be a cliffhanger but I’d say high note if there is a note.
Bob: Can I just say they had better not do some nonsense like they did last season, making everyone wait for something. It will be a low note with a crescendoe.
Bitty: They better not end with a damn cliffhanger!!! I freakin will flip. A low note with the destruction of the Saviors, deaths of a few good guys but the last 2 min will be hopeful.
Teddy: It’s too soon for Negan’s downfall so it’s gonna be a low note. Hopefully it won’t be the cliffhanger like the fucking bat scene
Cece: I think it will end again on a very low note. It will be sad and/or depressing. Which, usually has us all wondering.
Kristi: It will end at the beginning of the so called War. Im sure we will have a solid cliffhanger until next season.
Chris: I think It will end on a high note as we get ready for war! Rick will start with the upper hand, but how will Negan respond? (John Doe has the upper hand. Hopefully you get the reference.)
Kent: Maaaan, reading these comments, it’s like the writers and producers may have soured people on cliffhangers. I find it surprising. It’s almost like they abused the Hell out of the cliffhanger privilege last season with Glenn’s magic act, Daryl not being affected by the gun shot fade away, and oh yeah, that finale where people felt incredibly insulted after all of the other Teasers (at least one of you will get that joke). To put it bluntly, they cannot afford to sour their audience any more as ratings have been an issue, so they need to cater to us and give us something in the finale. That also means that killing a beloved character wouldn’t be terribly wise. Sasha and Tara have fans, well Sasha does, and I have read a lot of positive comments on Tara’s boobs. The thing is, I dislike her so much that I have oddly never even checked her out in that capacity, which is really strange for me. The loathing is real. This will end on a sour note The midseason finale ended with the gang together and fans rejoiced. This whole build up has been Rick preparing for war. The theme has been Rise Up. Rick now has guns and things are looking really good for Rick at the moment. Obviously, that’s not going to last. Expect a very sad note to go out on. Also, don’t message me and spoil it for me. I have to wait for Wrestlemania to get over around 11, and then I can watch TWD. I most likely will have my phone off, but I would still despise anybody who out and out sent a spoiler. You may message me and ask me if I have seen it, and then wait for a response.
One final thing. If Judith gets it somehow, I’m just saying that I will be so happy. I know that makes me an awful person, but her existence in this show never made much sense to me, and I feel that they should have gotten rid of her sooner. I’m not anti babies for you sensitive folks. It was illogical that she didn’t get more people killed though.They could have had Mika die trying to save Judith, and then Lizzie could have still looked at the flowers. I hope that you enjoy the episode. Thank you so much for reading.
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.
Welcome to the only Walking Dead blog that has somebody who loves Gregory’s character, that would be me. I am your host, Kent, and I ask the questions around here. Then I have this awesome group of people who occasionally find merit in my questions and then they answer them. It’s neat. My sincerest thanks to Bob, Bitty, Teddy, Cece, Kristi, and Chris. They all took various amounts of time to share their opinion, so please take the time to read it.
In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce. Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else. If you would like to participate, let me know. The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits. Please note all messages in bold are written by me.
Who is the shadowy figure with the crossbow at the end of the episode?
Bob: Dwight! I can only hope!
Bitty: My call is Dwight.
Teddy: Well could be Daryl because he asked where Sasha was, but I honestly believe it’s Dwight
Cece: Apparently it’s Dwight.
Kristi: Dwight. I think he is going to help defeat Negan.
Chris: It has to be Dwight. Daryl couldn’t have made it there fast enough. I think we’re going to see Dwight turning on Negan soon.
Kent: OK, everybody has chosen Dwight. There’s no reason that it can’t be Daryl, despite people online saying that time is a factor. Well, we don’t know how long Sasha and Rosita were camped in the building. It was long enough to go from day into the evening or night. That is plenty of time considering that they only had an hour head start, maybe 2 at the most. It’s probably Dwight, but I am pleading my case for it to be Daryl. That adds a whole level of suspense of whether he will get caught. Dwight is obviously more interesting, but screw it.
Rosita’s idea to distract the walkers with the fire in the car: good idea or bad idea?
Bob: It is an okay idea. Fire and smoke also attract the living so it was a decision lacking wisdom. Rosita still only sees what is right in front of her, through the sunglasses of the past. (I am glad that I wasn’t the only person wondering about the living aspect. That was a huge red flag instantly.)
Bitty: It worked for what they needed. Fire always distracts them until they get bored! (What is a zombie’s attention span, and is it longer than a millennial’s?)
Teddy: It makes sense to distract zombies with fire…tale as old as time (Song as old as rhyme? If that wasn’t intentional, I still don’t apologize.)
Cece: Decent enough idea, I think. What else would they have done, really? (Not brought attention to themselves. You asked.)
Kristi: Decent idea. I think she could have found an easier way than taking the time to cut the fence but I guess they needed a time filler. (TWD with a time filler? The hell you say! That has NEVER happened!)
Kent: It was a bad idea, mmmkay. They made an assumption that the vehicle didn’t have any fuel in the tank, but if it had, think about the disaster potential. Yes, everything worked out, so people will point to that as being the right decision, but a lot of right decisions backfire and a lot of bad decisions work out. On top of that, that seemed like a big target for them knowing how many outposts there are. It was typical, lazy TWD writing that we have all grown to accept. Remember, Glenn magically rotated in mid air as did the ambulance with Daryl and Carol.
This show had a series of important conversations. Which one was the best for you?
Bob: Negan’s extended conversation with Carl was supreme. Full of variations but all controlled by Negan. I love how his part was played. Frankly, Negan was acting as Carl’s father more than Rick due to this episode. (But….but Rick had that one conversation with Carl in the barn, and uhmmmm, he trusted him to shoot walkers a few times. Sigh, you’re right.)
Bitty: All the conversations between Rick and Hershel. Hershel was one of the first to ever talk about how people aren’t in their right state of mind in the new world. Hershel was able to see the good and the evil. (Herschel not only did that, but to piggyback on your thought, we actually got to see Herschel get it. When the group took down the walkers in the barn, more importantly when Shane kept shooting the walker and it kept coming, we kind of saw Herschel’s whole realization process, to the point of driving him to drink and then find more humanity. Such a great character. Honestly, when I re-watch the show, I look forward to all of his scenes because of his transformation, in season 2 especially.)
Teddy: I believe the Stuff and Thangs is the most important convo outside the Corl meme. (I don’t have much to add to that, but I will include this picture of my birthday gift from Bitty’s husband, Brian. It’s relevant.)
Cece: This is very true. There have been many. The main ones that have stuck out to me lately is Father Gabriel to Spencer or Negan to Carl. (As a Gabriel fan, I find it troubling that he has become the moral compass of the show, and I fear for his safety. Plus he’s black, and TWD history has not been kind to black dudes.)
Kent: Man, my wording of these questions need to improve. I was actually asking about this particular episode, BUT it appears that I may have not been as specific as I intended. I will give my not for this week’s episode to the Simon and Gregory conversation. I was expecting some girl to go on about Daryl and Maggie with Maggie not being mad at Daryl, and then somebody else to go on about how the Sasha and Rosita thing felt nice because it brought back fond memories of Abraham. Instead…..well you read it. So I guess in the spirit that everybody else took it, I will go with Tyrese and Carol, in one of the best acted moments of the show when she reveals to Tyrese that she killed what’s her tits. My mistake was saying show and not saying episode. I need an angry nun ringing a bell behind me and yelling “Shame” as I walk nude to Mayfield.
Will Gregory have the inner-testicular fortitude to meet Negan at Sanctuary on his own accord?
Bob: I hope so because Gregory needs to see the iron. Or see someone get the iron. I am surprised Gregory didn’t narc yet… (Under what circumstances could you foresee Gregory getting the iron? You have me intrigued.)
Bitty: Oh Gregory. He’s like the little kid who wants to hang out with the bad kids on the playground but ends up being the butt of the jokes. He has no balls. He will possibly make an attempt but I hope Maggie kicks his ass before that happens. (Why Maggie and not Jesus? Aside from the obvious info that I have from the books, but to me, it just seems like Jesus should be the one. Just curious about your reasoning.)
Teddy: Gregory has the testicular fortitude of mud…he wont meet Negan. He will die like the worm he is
Cece: Hell no. He’s a pussy.
Kristi: I don’t think so. I’m kinda hoping he dies before he gets to do that. He is a very frustrating character. (Some day you may be very happy.)
Kent: I think that he is going to get so full of himself that he may decide to. Maybe he senses the winds of change, like The Scorpions have before him, and then he a Big City Night with Negan in Sanctuary and asks him to Rock all of the rebel rousers Like A Hurricane. Gregory will even refer to Hilltop as The Zoo. He will then again bow and pledge his allegiance to Negan by telling him that there’s No One Like You. Yeah, go listen to the Scorpions while reading the rest of this. I don’t even have a real point. I guess I say that he will because why else extend that invitation unless they are going to follow through on it?
Should Sasha have tried to take the shot, wait it out, or go in guns blazing? Yeah, none are great options, but choose one.
Bob: Easily wait for the shot. However, advertisers need their time slots as do other shows. I am a little disturbed that they go to do this sniper mission and give it one attempt. (Man, you people. Always bringing up points about filling up time and advertisers. But yeah, the give it one attempt thing cracked me up. Rosita gets this great gun, then finds the one girl that she really doesn’t like, to get this mission accomplished. They risk all sorts of things, and then see Negan for 15 seconds and are like, nahhhh.)
Bitty: Wait it out. I’m not sure why they thought Negan would only come outside one time. Silly girls. (I find that sexist and very offensive. Really, they have seen him how many times, but now they think that this like Groundhog Day or some such nonsense. Poor writing by TWD!)
Teddy: in any kind of assassination attempt it seems retarded to go in guns blazing. That is the fastest way to insure you do not kill your target. Shot from a distance is easily the best option because it allows for an escape. (Yeah, glad you mocked the guns blazing strategy so I didn’t have to. Of course, I am also a big believer in “If I ain’t dyin’, I ain’t tryin’, but I use that philosophy mainly in video games. Mainly.)
Cece: She should have waited until there was a definite, clear time to snipe his ass. (As I have learned in Zelda, sniping the ass rarely gets you the meat that you need to make a delicious meal. Just saying.)
Kristi: Wait it out. He was bound to come outside again. (How awesome would it be if he had a body double? Think about it!)
Kent: I am a firm believer in taking the shot, but only if you have a 50% chance or higher of succeeding. You see, I have been playing The Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild, and I keep getting impatient when I am trying to hunt the buffalo or whatever the hell they are, and I sometimes only get them in the chest or neck and it’s not an insta kill, and then they run off. Same principle here. You have to get a critical hit or else it’s not worth that bullet or arrow in my case. So the correct answer is to wait it out.
Do you agree with Gregory when he said that the new people need to start doing jobs and pulling their own weight? Also, why is Gregory so pissed at Jesus?
Bob: I agree with ends of Gregory’s statement, that everyone should do their fair share but I really feel he was trying to do 9 of two things. I mean, 1 of 2 things. 9th, he is trying to lamely attempt to regain control and distract from this rebellion or 2nd, he wants to keep an eye on people and hold them accountable so he can rat on them that way when they haven’t produced enough for the Saviors. (And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you guarantee yourself winning a question. 9 Deuce references will get you everywhere on this blog. I really did enjoy the 2nd point, as I hadn’t considered it, but it is so something Gregory would do. I like it!)
Bitty: Haven’t the new people already been doing jobs? Training the village how to fight! Jesus is a threat and Gregory knows this. (While your point is valid and I agree with it, can we just take a moment to think about how much better that training montage would have been with “You’re the Best” by Joe Esposito? I sadly knew his name without having to look it up. Seriously, give us more montage and less Sasha and Rosita tying knots. Also, more vegetables guy!)
Teddy: Gregory is only trying to act tough. His ass doesn’t lift a finger to work himself (can you tell I hate him?) I do believe in earning your keep in the zombie apocalypse but Gregory is acting like a dog peeing on stuff trying to make it his. Gregory is just taking his small dick issues out on Jesus because all the bitches love Jesus. (Bitches love Jesus. This really needs to go on a shirt. I keep saying this. Also, really digging the dog peeing on stuff analogy.)
Cece: I mean, of course people should all be working together. That’s how a community works, period. He seems more like he’s trying to save his own ass, than to be nice to people. He’s afraid of the main group because he knows they’re trying to fight. (If you could be doing what Gregory is doing, or toiling away scavenging, what would you choose? I would totally pull a Gregory. I have also been watching a ton of South Park lately, and watching Cartman puts things in perspective so often.)
Kristi: Yes, everyone needs to have some purpose in serving the community. I think Gregory is seeing his potential as a leader and it scares him. (I will ask you this particular question, what more does Ezekiel do that Gregory doesn’t do? You don’t really hear anybody complain about what Ezekiel does, he runs the community and has a tiger. I think fans have a double standard because Ezekiel is incredibly lovable and Gregory is…..well I love him and I am probably the only one. All I am saying is that having a full time leader, organizer, representative, isn’t the worst thing, at least from my perspective. )
Kent: Gregory is always right, even when he supposedly gets people’s names incorrect, he’s still right. Of course people need to not only pull their own weight, but if you want to get in good with Gregory and start to get some power, you do even more work and you suck up and then sleep with him, and then do what Andrea failed to do with the Governor. This would work for Maggie, Sasha, Enid, Rosita, Jesus, and possibly Daryl as he has shown no heterosexual tendencies as of yet, and Carol has all but drawn him a map to her promised land. I think he’s pissed at Jesus because he’s a bit jealous of his hair and eyes. Gregory is a handsome man, but I mean, he can’t compete with what Jesus brings to the table.
Why did Eugene reject Rosita’s offer to escape?
Bob: This also I feel can go two ways. One option is that Eugene wants the protection from Negan and is effectively, Negan. Alternatively, Eugene is very, very smart. He has a master plan and this little hurrah is messing with his methods. (I truly believe that this messed up what he’s working on.)
Bitty: I’m so torn with this. I would love to believe that Eugene is plotting and planning to take down Negan, however I really just don’t believe that’s the case. I think Eugene rejected the escape because he’s just not ready. In a sick way he feels safer inside Negan’s walls than out. You have to pick your poison. (I struggle to find a flaw with what you said in regards to him feeling safer inside the walls than out. Obviously, it’s significantly safer for damn near anybody. Hell, Daryl was technically safer in there, right? Plus, let’s not forget that in Eugene’s case, it’s amplified, in the same way that Daryl’s is because now Negan is actively trying to find Daryl with bad intentions. Eugene just isn’t a good candidate for hiding in the way that Daryl is. If Eugene had escaped, I think I would have been pissed at Eugene for being an idiot.)
Teddy: Eugene just earned their trust, so him jumping ship now would fuck all that work up. Eugene did the smart thing. (The trust thing is huge, especially early on.)
Cece: He’s afraid. He’s so confused and doesn’t want to get in the cross fire of things. He’s like a neutral dude who just wants things to go smoothly. (I truly don’t think that he’s confused, but he could be. A lot of fans give him a lot of credit that he may not even deserve as being this mastermind.)
Kristi: He has a plan. Not sure what but I feel like he may actually be trying to help. Also, if he did escape it would put everyone in danger. (Well, I just said that above, prior to reading this. Obviously, I agree.)
Kent: Eugene knows what he is doing. Right now, he is as close to untouchable as you can be with the Saviors, which isn’t saying much, but almost everybody would trade places with him at the moment, which says a lot. Then these strumpets come and mess up his swagger, and it’s bullcrap, alright. Eugene is living it up at the moment all things considering, and if Rick’s group takes over, Eugene can say that he was waiting to unveil his masterplan. If he never gets rescued, well he’s got an Atari to play. Eugene is pretty much winning the apocalypse right now.
Who do you respect more: Simon or Gregory? If you struggle with this, ask yourself who you least respect and then pretend it’s opposite day.
Bob: Simon hands down. Simon has authority and knows it and shows it. Simon doesn’t just talk about it, he is about it and does it. Gregory… reminds me of the used car salesman in “True Lies.”. He is about to urinate in his own pants. (Man, a True Lies reference! I was just talking about that film 2 nights ago. I really would love more film references in these blogs. Thank you. Come to find out, one of Craig’s favorite lines is “Ass like a 10 year old boy”. This whole video is great.)
Bitty: Simon. (& Simon)
Teddy: Simon. Gregory isn’t worth the sweat his father made while squirting him out. Also, Simon makes me laugh. (Simon had me laughing a couple of times this episode, and has in the past as well. He really nails the character.)
Cece: I respect Simon more. Yes, he’s made under Negan’s image to be a delivery boy, BUT, he’s an ass and at least he knows it. Gregory tries to be hard but he’s just a piece of shit coward. (After reading this, I wondered if Gregory is actually self aware. As you say, Simon is an ass, but he knows it. Is Gregory so full of himself that he believes his bullshit, or is it all a front? I could make an argument for both sides, which is basically the gist of these blogs anyway. It’s 60% me just making arguments for the sake of arguing.)
Kristi: I hate Gregory more. (I’m glad you went with the hate more angle and not the respect more angle. Good job.)
Kent: I respect both guys so much. While I may like Simon more, Gregory is running a community. He has kept his community fairly safe. Everybody loves Ezekiel, but hates Gregory, yet they have done similar things. “But…..but Ezekiel smiles ,Kent, and Jerry is really fuckin funny.” Uh huh, and? I have been wondering, when Gregory does get killed, will it be the most beloved kill in the whole series? I am going to say yes.
Why did Simon/Negan leave the Hilltop that mass quantity of aspirin?
Bob: I laughed out loud when I saw that! Maybe someone actually thought that was almost fair from the Saviors. It was really their way of saying, you had a doctor by our grace, and now we are taking him back. Here is a parting gift for your trouble. (So they basically lost on a game show, but walk away with a parting gift. I wish Marc Summers had been on this episode. I have to include this video because it has Marc Summers and Burt Reynolds, and Burt is so pissy as he just got divorced I believe.)
Bitty: Because they are assholes. (I’m not going to link to Dennis Leary’s “Asshole”……or am I?)
Teddy: Because they’re being sarcastic saying most people’s problems would be solved by some Alieve. (Maybe it’s the cure to the zombie epidemic? Like you overdose on it and BAM, cured. M Night Shamalayan would call that a tweest!)
Cece: As a joke because they are going to have massive headaches trying to figure out how to run things now that they’ve stolen their doctor. (As a person with chronic daily headaches, I approve of this message.)
Kent: Because they care. They want the hilltop to still thrive in the absence of Dr. Carson, and with that much aspirin, they should be able to barter that to other communities and get other things. People are really undervaluing that amazing crate. Yeah, I bet you didn’t consider the whole bartering thing, right? Like, how many boxes would get a melon from the Kingdom? You MUST think about these things, people!
Now that we are almost done with the season, who do you find yourself missing more: Abraham or Glenn?
Bob: Abraham but he would be dead by now anyway because of his strength and he is considered a threat. (So, say Negan had chosen Glenn first. Daryl obviously had his reaction. My question is, would Abe have reacted in similar fashion and gotten captured or his head bashed in? I don’t think Abe leaves that lineup alive because he was such a hothead. Something to consider for the readers.)
Bitty: Glenn. I miss his interactions with everyone- he always had that “hopeful” outlook and was a bad ass at the same time. He still carried the voice of reason. (I know that we often see things very differently, which is fine. It gives me things to poke fun at. From your perspective, did you find Glenn to be fairly weaker as the series went on, from a character perspective, say during seasons 5 and 6? I did, but I am curious about you.)
Teddy: Neither to be honest. I miss Bob. (Bob never got the recognition that he deserved. His death was terribly pointless too. Tara could have gotten eaten by the Hunters/Termites.)
Cece: I’m not too sure. I like Glenn as a person, but I think I miss Abraham more because he would have been a more badass asset to us now. (I want you to consider the same question that I posed to Bob, about whether Abe would have ever made it out of the lineup alive had he not been chosen initially. Message me.)
Kristi: Abraham. Glenn always kinda annoyed me. (I just want to say, Glenn totally lost me when he was too much of a pussy to kill Nicholas when Nicholas and him had that big fight, I think the same time that Alexandria was considering banishing Rick. Glenn was so highly praised, but him not killing Nicholas was a bitch move.)
Kent: Glenn got worse with every passing season. Seriously, rate how much you liked Glenn after each season and it is probably a gentle downward slide. Abraham was one of the 3 funniest characters on the show, along with Eugene and Merle. Abe is the obvious answer. Herschel is a definite 4th by the way for funny. Huh, no women on this funny list. Aren’t women supposed to be really smart and really funny? I’m confused.
Has Rosita grown on you this season or made you sour on her?
Bob: When is she going to die? (She could die in the season finale. If not, you will have to wait for maybe the season 9 finale if my calculations are accurate, or the season 10 midseason finale. If she makes it past this season, then it will be awhile for her comic demise, and I would like to see that play out more than a throwaway death now. Dare I say, you may actually enjoy her story after the war if it plays out the way it does in the books. Knowing how the show goes, they will make it way too dramatic and make all grown men openly groan, but one can hope.)
Bitty: Ok throughout this season and last I’ve been so over Rosita!! However as you all know I’m a sucker for the backstory of the character. FINALLY, we hear a little bit about Rosita’s past. This makes her tolerable now. She’s still got to get got soon though. (Man, you said get got, and that’s perfect. We agree wholeheartedly on this whole backstory thing. Backstory makes almost all TWD characters significantly more tolerable, except Tara.)
Teddy: I want an arrow to pierce her like Abraham used to xD (Wow, that was incredibly lewd. That’s so something I would say, so full approval.)
Cece: I have always hated her. Her sentiment toward Sasha at the end made me hate her like 1% less, but still. (So were you at a full 100% prior and dropped to 99%, because that is some cereal hate. Or were you at like a 73% and dropped to 72%? Inquiring minds want to know.)
Kristi: I still don’t care for her. Her little attitude is childish. She needs to go away already. (There are times where she has a childish outlook, I concur. I do like the fact that she is proactive. We need proactive characters to get the ball moving, or else the show would grow too stagnant. Of course there are times when you want to cut her face again.)
Kent: Grown like a raging clue after seeing Alicia Silverstone in Aerosmith’s “Cryin’” video. Yeah, some of you like that reference. The rest of you are damn millennials. Seriously, Rosita’s character has significantly improved this season. She’s had a lot to work with and has been killing it. Not always making good decisions, but everybody sure loves Rick, no matter how many bad decisions he makes. You people are sexist and I feel bad for you. Shame! Also, I referenced Aerosmith because this episode was titled “The Other Side” which is the name of a great song of theirs. Please, do not mention the Red Hot band that never shuts the hell up about California. Thank you for reading. Have a nice day.
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.
Welcome to the only Walking Dead blog that asks people about cobbler. This week, I am joined by Bitty, Bob, Briana, Cece, and Teddy as we go through 11 questions and help make the internet great again. This is one of my all time favorite episodes, and I have watched it 5 times. They really did a wonderful job on this one, in my opinion. People can say that the show is going downhill, and to those detractors, I present them with this episode and tell them to choke on it.
In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce. Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else. If you would like to participate, let me know. The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits. Please note all messages in bold are written by me. If you watched Talking Dead, this will make sense to you.
Whose death will have more impact moving forward, beyond this episode::Benjamin’s or Richard’s?
Bitty: Richards death was key to igniting Morgan’s will to kill and survive. Richard had a similar view that I believe Shane would’ve had if he was still alive. (Points for bringing up Shane! Yeah, those 2 along with Merle would have made a great team.)
Bob: Being that Benjamin’s death finally triggered Ezekiel to extract his mind from his brown eye, the answer to this is clearly Richard. Richard was a leader and tactically, the rebellion will suffer unknown loss due to Richard’s death. Also, Richard because Morgan is killing. (Yeah, the tactical point is a big one for the Kingdom, like a huge loss. Also, point for brown eye. I miss browneyedgurls.geocities.com)
Briana: That’s tough! Benjamin’s death will have more of an emotional impact because he has his little brother and Ezekiel was so close to him. Richard’s death will have an impact on the sense that it fueled the fire to get the Kingdom on track to join the others in the fight. (I am still wondering if Richard was never found out, would Ezekiel have gone to war just over Ben’s death.)
Cece: I’m not really sure either one of them was too important. But, Benjamin’s death led the Kingdom to understand what they may be dealing with now. (You’re not sure? You may need to re-watch the episode because you may have missed something. They pretty much Peter North’d it down our collective gullets.)
Teddy: Richard’s death was surprisingly inconsequential, Benjamin’s was the spark that lit Ezekial’s fire. Honestly was shocked by that since I thought Jerry’s death was the fuel. (Jerry’s death would have been huge, but he did get whacked. I am still undecided on how much Ben’s death impacted Ezekiel’s decision vs Richard’s, simply based on what was presented to us, and knowing how much Ezekiel likes to deliberate. I think this is something that will be touched on in a later episode, or so I hope.)
Kent: Richard’s is more important. Yes, Ezekiel is ready, but it took the death of both guys before we saw that in him. While Ben’s death effected Morgan, it was Richard’s plan that pushed Morgan to kill again. We have a pissed off Morgan back with us, and while I feel that Ezekiel would have decided to fight the Saviors after Ben’s death, but we may never know. What we do know is that Ben was still learning to fight and was still a teen, and Richard was a man who could fight.
Is Carol about to go back into season 5 and 6 mode where she will do whatever is needed, or will we see a hybrid version of Carol where she may not be as intense?
Bitty: There must be a middle ground for Carol. She should be a leader and not just a ninja killer. I hope to see Carol leading a smart and efficient way, not just “do it herself” mode where she gets overwhelmed and has to leave again. (I can absolutely foresee a way that they could make Carol a leader by season 9 or 10, if they so choose to play it that way.)
Bob: I think we will see a Carol that is frankly deadlier than before but she will be more reflective upon what she does. She will be more choosey about who she kills but woe to them she decides to kill. (I like the idea of her being more choosey. It would serve her character well.)
Briana: Carol seems to only have 2 speeds. Rabbit or Turtle. She’s been stuck in Turtle mode for a while and she will have get back into her crazy self if she plans on doing anything. She doesn’t half ass so I’m saying she will definitely be back to her intense self. (As a person who is permanently on Turtle mode, I will cheer for the rabbit this one time. Makes me want to watch some Looney Tunes as well.)
Cece: I think she will fight, but I don’t think she will completely be savage. (Ohhhhhhhh Yeaaaaah….Dig it. That was a Macho Man Randy Savage reference for the uninitiated. Sometimes my comments are for my enjoyment.)
Teddy: She softened really quick, but I don’t really believe she lost her kill everyone spirit lol. (Let’s hope that she hasn’t.)
Kent: She will definitely be closer to the former than the latter. I think she will be more open to planning a strategy instead of just doing what is needed, which could backfire. Carol’s instincts have been spot on. I really want to see her go Dr Dre 2001 Chronic album on the Saviors. I’m excited.
Regarding Richard’s death, was it more important for Morgan to kill him in front of the Kingdom due to Ben, or more important to do in front of the Saviors? Please only choose one.
Bitty: Ugh one?! Honestly this is a tough choice to make. If Morgan had killed in front of different Savior members, Dwight, Negan it would have been super important. I think that’s all I can add to this question. (Ugh, I know right? I think you undervalue Gavin’s importance in the Savior’s rankings. I could be wrong, but I think he is probably #4, and maybe #3. Dwight has a bigger role, but as far as rank, I don’t know who’s higher. Simon is clearly #2. Eugene is #1A.)
Bob: Morgan followed Richard’s death. Morgan even guarded against Richard lying since clearly, Richard will do a thing for a just cause in his own eyes. That being said, Morgan earned prima facie the Saviors’ trust of the Kingdom to be compliant. Morgan saw the emotional opportunity of the one Savior being dismissed and capitalized on it. The death was needed for the sake of restoring relations with the Saviors. (The guy dismissed is named Jared. Prima facie means based on the first impression; accepted as correct until proved otherwise. There, we just worked together to Kentucate people.)
Briana: Obviously, there’s reason for both but if I have to say one was more important than the other, I’ll go with the Saviors. I think it’s what Richard planned all along once his first plan didn’t pan out. He needed the Saviors to think the trust was still there. They need the element of surprise so making the Saviors think he killed him for stealing one of the melons, gives them that. It lets their guard down with them and keeps them off the radar of them potentially going rogue. (Speaking of Rogue, I’m still irritated with how she was portrayed in the X-Men films. Just saying. She was so much better in the 90’s animated series on FOX.)
Cece: More important for him to kill in front of Saviors. By him showing the fuck up to everyone and killing him on spot, it also shows that the Kingdom isn’t fucking around. (D0 you think that possibly Gavin took notice or gave a damn about it? I hadn’t considered him walking away taking note, but I can see that as a possibility.)
Teddy: I believe he did what Richard wanted. Richard wanted to die in front of both to spark the flame…he got his monkey paw wish granted lol. (Point for the monkey paw reference. I pretty much love every monkey paw TV or film reference that I have seen. It’s a simple story, and I don’t know why it’s not used more in modern day storytelling.)
Kent: I look at it this way, the relationship with the Saviors wasn’t going to really alter from the Saviors’ perspective, even if the group rebelled, they were confident that things would carry on eventually. I’m of the belief that Ezekiel needed to actually see somebody “rise up” and fight. He just lost his best soldier, and Morgan has instilled some confidence in Ezekiel to go to war. In that regard, isn’t that more important than just “fooling” the Saviors?
Carol has not really enjoyed the company of younger people since the prison. Do you think that she will ever find somebody to mentor or to care for, who isn’t an adult?
Bitty: No, Carol needs to focus on her relationships with people her age and older. The Mom figure is too much for her to handle. She is a bad ass strong woman who needs to take charge and lead men and women, not be a surrogate or school teacher.
Bob: No. I believe she is protecting them from becoming like her psychotic self.
Briana: The way I see it going down is she and Ezekiel end up getting together and sort of adopting Benjamin’s little brother. From the previews, it looks like that’s a road they may take. (Yup, I think there’s a good chance of that.)
Cece: It could be nice to see her branch out into her old habits again. But I can’t seem to think of anyone this could apply to.
Teddy: Not after she tried with little miss Satan (look into the pretty flowers…blam!) (I really miss Lizzie. She was a fun, psychotic character. We need more of them. People should be more psychotic folks in this world.)
Kent: I think that not only will Carol start to care for Ben’s brother, Henry, but also I have this feeling that Carol has to impart some wisdom to Carl and Little Ass Kicker. I can towards the end of the show’s run, Carol with Judith, and it would absolutely make sense.
Is Lennie James (Morgan) the best actor on the show? If not, who is?
Bitty: Although his skills are flawless, I still feel the pain in Carols eyes, she doesn’t have to speak and she is in pain. (I was going to say Tara to see your reaction!!) (You would have been able to feel the hate in my eyes, because you know, I’m also a great actor. I think between Morgan and Carol, they can just look at each other and carry a scene.)
Bob: He ranks high, but no. I hate to do this, but I believe Andrew Lincoln is the best actor. We have seen him with his sanity and without it. We have seen him happy and crushed. We have seen him arrogance and fearful. We have seen him rash and calculating. He has covered a slew of different emotions and states of mind and is convincing and captivating at the same time. He has had his boring moments, but my better half also noted his near perfect acting when they were initially captured by Negan. (I have 2 issues with putting Andy higher on my list. First, he is the character we see way more than anybody else, meaning that he has had more opportunity to showcase all of that, which may not be fair, but I tend to count that against the leads, except in Breaking Bad because Bryan Cranston was so good. Secondly, when Lori died, Rick rolling around on the ground, he cries about as badly as Edward Norton does. I have to acknowledge that. He is really good though.)
Briana: Oh he’s absolutely one of the best! I don’t think I could pick just one to be the very best though! I’ve always been extremely impressed by Rick and Maggie being English! I seriously had no clue either of them were anything less than Southern until I saw them in other things (and yes I had totally seen him in Love Actually long before Walking Dead but just didn’t connect the dots until I saw him interview for some other show he did!) (I also saw Love Actually, last month thanks to Cece. He was good in that. The being English thing is a valid point, well him and Lauren. Did you see her in The Boy? If not, I can’t say that I recommend it, but if somebody did like it, I recommend checking out Housebound. Similar story, but better done.)
Cece: He is most definitely one of the best actors in the show, for sure. I can’t think of anyone I really like who acts better than he does in their roles specific to only this show. When it comes to careers, Jeffrey Dean Morgan, for sure. (When it comes to careers Michael Rooker, Norman Reedus, and Jeffrey DeMunn are all in the conversation. DeMunn probably has the best career when considering the show in totality with Shawshank Redemption, Green Mile, and The Mist. That’s tough to beat. Rooker has been in a lot of stuff, just not as high profile, but more quantity. I can go all day on this.)
Teddy: I believe he shows range for sure, and he tows that sanity line better than Andrew Lincoln does as Rick. (Bingo! I think he does that better than Andy, and that’s the biggest reason that I favor Lennie over Andy. Morgan’s sanity feels more volatile and real to me. RIck was just chasing a ghost. Morgan feels it.)
Kent: This is a tough one. He’s in the top tier with Michael Rooker (Merle), Scott Wilson (Herschel), Melissa McBride (Carol), and Andy Lincoln (Rick). I favor Lennie over Melissa, but they are 1 and 1A. Morgan has had less screen time, but he does crazy in such a good way. Plus Lennie kicked ass in Snatch.
Do you miss when The Walking Dead would spend time showing a character’s backstory, pre-zombie apocalypse or whatever they did to get to this current point in time?
Bitty: I love knowing these things about a character!! However there is no time anymore when so many stories are in motion. When Eugene explained his back story in less than 60 secs a couple weeks ago it was perfect. Exactly what I wanted to know how him without an entire episode. When we first had the Morgan episode years ago, getting captured and taught and all I was frustrated and bored with it. But now I understand Morgan’s development because of that. So I guess what I’m saying is that there aren’t any other characters right now that i need a back story for. Except Daryl. What did he do?? (He was a private investigator.)
Bob: Yes BUT I don’t want whole episodes of that. It can be sooooo boring. Glimpses are good, and leaving some mystery is a good thing.
Briana: I really enjoy when they do that but I definitely think limitation is important! This show can be one of the worst about prolonging stories that aren’t quite as important as they make them out to be. Something that takes an entire episode can sometimes be explained in way less time! (There are times when the show tries to force a story and it just doesn’t work. Most shows are probably guilty of that, but in a show with such a huge cast, it’s more prominent here.)
Cece: Absolutely. I LIVE for character development! (D0 you die when a character is introduced but never talked about ever again? I’m looking at your Morales and you Vatos and the remaining Wolves.)
Teddy: Depends, I believe outside Jesus and Ezekiel they’ve pretty much covered all the important people left.
Kent: I do because they have usually been really well done. The exception was how poorly Abe’s backstory was. I still love when Orange is the New Black does this, and is actually the best thing the show has going for it nowadays, unless you like preachy bullshit. Here are people whose backstory I would love to see: Rosita, Negan, Gavin, Simon, Jesus, Gregory, Jerry, and of course Kent. I know that Morgan’s 90 minute episode wasn’t universally loved, for some inane reason, but without that episode, Morgan’s character would be very lackluster now. I just want the pre-credits backstory, not full episodes, except for Negan. I would have loved to know more about Fat Joey too. RIP
“To injure an opponent is to injure oneself” was a quote that Ben used during this episode. This episode, the meaning is obvious. Give me another example(s) of when that applied to the show.
Bitty: Deep. Very Deep. When the Governor beheaded Hershel. He injured a crucial member of the apocalyptic society and in turn was killed himself because of that act. (You took my initial thought when I wrote the question.)
Bob: When Shane was killed by Rick. By the way, Shane was also a great actor on this show. Nothing like killing your adopted daughter’s father. When the Governor killed Herschel. When Negan killed Spencer and (mostly) Olivia. (I read this, and I had this idea. In 20 years, I would totally be in favor of the show being remade, but different characters survive. So early on, we may see a lot of the same things play out, but suppose Shane and Dale don’t die so early and maybe Glenn gets it and that means that Maggie or Beth ends up with T Dog. Sort of like the TV show, Sliders. The same premise, but just played out differently. Maybe they make it all the way to the prison, and maybe they work together with Governor, or maybe they attack the Governor and kill him like they initially wanted to. Think about the possibilities.)
Briana: I’ll go with Carol having to kill the red head from the Saviors. Killing her really had a huge impact on her making her completely emotionally unstable. (Which is kinda weird when you think about it. THAT was her breaking point. Not being F’d over by Rick, not having to put down Lizzie, not having to kill that lady in Terminus, who had a sad story herself. It was the Red Woman, but I don’t think her name was Melisandre.)
Cece: Definitely pertains to when Rosita shot Lucille and then we lost Spencer. (Good one. Didn’t even cross my mind. To add to that, that same scenario, Negan kept pushing the buttons and Lucille got hurt, so Negan took away Eugene, if you look at it from the Saviors POV.)
Teddy: Daryl hit Negan so Glenn got the bat pretty easy choice. Also, Rick’s group took out the Savior’s outpost so Negan took out Abraham. (Really, the whole round up, let’s play eeney meeney miney moe thing, that is once again, another example of this, only from the Savior’s POV. Yes, they lost that outpost and the Dick Brigade, but then they took out Abe and Glenn.)
Kent: No shit, everybody said something different. I was going to go with Herschel and Governor, but Bitty tackled that one, so I will suggest the Merle and Michonne thing. Not only was Rick considering giving Michonne to The Governor, but Merle went to carry it out and realized that would injure the group too much, and then he got injured/killed. That whole thing really works here. Dale’s death got the group moved into Herschel’s place and sparked a fire. Rick’s injury also strengthened Carl after the Prison went to shit. Plenty of examples. Great job guys and gals.
Another theme throughout this episode, and in the series for that matter took place when Nabila was talking to Ezekiel about how the garden was overrun with weevils, and that they would have to cut it and burn it, but if they want, it can all grow back. Give me another example of this taking place in the series.
Bitty: When the Walkers invaded Alexandria and were running rampant. The townspeople sacrificed part of their water source by filling it with gasoline and igniting it. Drawing the walkers to the fire as they burned in their clean water source. (In hindsight, wasn’t that a terrible decision? With 20-30 townpeople all fighting, was it necessary when if each person killed 3 walkers, that would have thinned it out pretty quick? You had Rick and Michonne and Kent all out there fighting. I’m just asking.)
Bob: This actually goes back to the Old Testament of the Bible. Destroy your enemy completely, utterly and competently. Then prosper. In the series, this has continually happened with every surbibor in the show. Every person has needed to break themselves down or be broken down, choose to embrace that change, thus destroying a former version of themselves and then accept who they have become and grow into that person. (You had to know that this was coming based off of your Surbibor comment. Nobody reading this is in on the joke, but suffice it to say, 10+ years ago, we used to jam out to this song while playing many a video game, notably Deathrow. Seriously, they do not say Survivor.)
Briana: These are tough questions today!! Lol! I’m shooting in the dark here but look at the flowers was a pretty big theme. (I like to ask the hard questions from time to time. It helps us from becoming too complacent with the easy questions. Plus, now you have Destiny’s Child above you, so there’s that.
Cece: Not too sure I can think of another example offhand, but maybe more like getting rid of the people who don’t want to work to make things better and starting fresh. (Sure, consider the prisoners, and how Axel and Oscar had to really prove their worth, but only after losing what they knew and where they were safe.)
Teddy: Rick and Hershel’s farming outings which Hershel told Rick to do it with CORL(Carl) (This was a really good one, and obvious, and I totally didn’t think of it. Good call!)
Kent: In a way, that’s what Rick was talking about with the Governor prior to Herschel’s beheading. Burn the hate, and build something amazing.
Will Morgan ever find peace before death?
Bitty: I think he found peace IN death when he killed Richard.
Bob: That is exactly when he will find peace, in those last moments right before death or a near death experience. He is closer now that he will kill again.
Briana: I think peace comes and goes with Morgan. He was at peace for a while. But will he find it again before he dies depends on how soon he dies! I could see him going full fledged psycho during this fight and getting himself killed. If he can make it past this particular situation then yes I think he’ll find peace again, at least for a while. (I like your answer better than mine. I have Night of the Living Dead references though to help make up for it.)
Cece: I think so. He’s a very peaceful person. I hope someday his mind is at ease.
Teddy: I believe he either will find peace in death (sacrificing himself) or he will save someone and let the pain go
Kent: There’s no wrong answers here, except for maybe mine. I like that people all had a different take on it, which tells me that Morgan is a complex and well done character. In a weird way, I think killing Richard offered that peace. It cleared his mind a bit, while also sending him spiraling. I know that doesn’t make sense. I think he’s at peace knowing that he avenged Benjamin, and has enough perspective to understand the world for what it is. More importantly, I want to offer up this nugget. Most of you know that Morgan’s son, Duane Jones, was named after the lead character in Night of the Living Dead. Benjamin kinda became somewhat of a son figure briefly for Morgan. Duane Jones’ character’s name in Night of the Living Dead was Ben. Yeah, I’m sure that was intentional. I can’t be the only person to have made that correlation.
Why did Ezekiel want Jerry to leave the cobbler?
Bitty: Cobbler equals Carol. Ezekiel wants to honor Carol’s wishes and leave her out of everything. If the cobbler isn’t there Ezekiel doesn’t have to think of Carol. (I hadn’t considered a Carol correlation, but you made it work. I like it.)
Bob: He didn’t want the Saviors possibly seeing it and I also think Ezekiel is somewhat frustrated at how jovial Jerry is. (Once again, I didn’t remotely consider that, but yeah, I think Ezekiel wishes Jerry would take things at least 47% more seriously for these missions)
Briana: Partially professionalism, partially so he wouldn’t risk starting something with the Saviors. They may have decided they wanted it or decided that if they have enough food to eat on a run, they have enough to be giving bigger deliveries. (This is probably the right answer. It makes a lot of sense knowing what little we do of Ezekiel.)
Cece: Who knows? He didn’t want him sharing.
Teddy: Bruh those Saviors are greedy af lol. That cobbler is theirs lol and they won’t share….unless it’s with Carol. (No sense in wasting food or sharing it in the ZA. Look at how upset Morgan was about Michonne taking his peanut butter bar, or whatever the hell it was.)
Kent: Ahhh, this is why I enjoy this blog. Ezekiel probably just didn’t want everybody else to smell it and get hungry before this big mission. There are more serious obvious answers, but eh, fudge that.
Gavin (the leader of the Saviors group that visits Ezekiel) provided us with a little insight into his character. Do you think that he is closer to Simon, as in an uncaring hard ass, or to Dwight, who clearly has a lot going on?
Bitty: Based on pure hope- Dwight. Easier to break and destroy. (I am curious as to how strong willed Simon really is, just based off of Bob’s response.)
Bob: Simon, since I have to pick one of them. Gavin has you fooled if you think he truly cares. That’s all for pomp and circumstance. Just because we have insight into the manipulation of Richard and Morgan with the Kingdom setting up for resisting the Saviors does not mean the Saviors are doing something similar of which we have no insight into. Lastly, we need to trust basically, that Negan has put people in power whom have everything to lose and he controls. (Thank you for mentioning Pomp and Circumstance because that allows me to make my second Macho Man Randy Savage reference! That was the name of his theme song. Also, that last line you wrote, very spot on.)
Briana: I lean toward Dwight. I don’t know for sure if he does what he does out of fear or genuine care for making the situation work out without casualties. But it seems he genuinely doesn’t want people to die when he’s out on these runs and that says something compared to how other leaders act. (Dwight strikes me as a guy who doesn’t want to kill, but if he ends up in a better place due to that death, then he supports it, which is the way a large portion of us really would end up like, given similar circumstances, no matter how think of ourselves, people do desperate things in desperate time. I plan on lying a lot and using big words and basically pulling a Eugene, minus the hair game of course.)
Cece: Definitely a Dwight. You could even see how he was somewhat upset that Benjamin had died. (That is what the show wants us to believe. As a cynic, I am hoping for more layers to Gavin, sooner than later, as I don’t think he’s going to survive much longer.)
Teddy: Benjamin’s death shook him for sure. I feel like he doesnt like to do his job but he knows he has to despite liking talking to Ezekial. (I can see him liking doing business with Ezekiel. That makes a lot of sense realistically. Way better than dealing with Gregory.)
Kent: I think he is closer to Simon. If anything, he may have witnessed his own son get killed and maybe it hit him hard briefly, or it could have all been an act. He is still about doing business and pleasing his boss. Jared on the other hand is just a douche bag that has been granted the slightest bit of power and takes it way too far. He has to be the most hated character on the show behind Tara, right? He whacked Jerry!
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.
Welcome to the only Walking Dead blog that tasks people with answering 11 questions about an episode, no matter how bad or insulting it is to viewer’s intelligence. Oh hey, Episode 12 was really great, am I right? This episode can go back to Oceanside. On the plus side, it appears that Rosita and Sasha are about to give us a memorably moment.
In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce. Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else. If you would like to participate, let me know. The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits. Enjoy this meme, provided to me via Cece. Please note all messages in bold are written by me.
Throughout the episode, Michonne seemed to be more in a rush than Rick. Why do you think that is?
Bitty: Rick was in the moment. At first I thought he was scared to go back to reality, scared of more deaths, more fights, scared of Negan. But as the episode went on he was just in the moment. He understands the moment finally. He can lose people and it’s ok but this is life now. Michonne will continue to keep Rick focused and be his mental drive. (I like that you describe it as living in the moment, because that’s the gist of it. No doubt.)
Bob: Michonne doesn’t have testicles. Rick has 2. (Yeah, nobody had a chance of topping this response.)
Briana: Rick first of all was just enjoying feeling alive out in the thick of it all. The outside feels more like home for him than behind the walls of Alexandria where he’s a prisoner to Negan. Also, I think it had to do with Michonne not being very optimistic that they would find something. Easier to just go back home than continue looking for something she feels is not out there. (I hadn’t considered that last bit regarding Michonne, but that sounds about right.)
Kristi: I think she was worried about the town. Rick seemed to want to spend time away and act like life was somewhat normal. (Yeah, he needed that breather.)
Kent: Rick really needs to take some time to digest everything. Rick has always been pushing and pushing when everybody else needed to take a personal day, basically. The only exception is when he lost his shit after Lori’s death. Aside from that, he’s been the guy to keep this operation constantly pushing forward. He’s in a state of mind where he just wants to enjoy a day or 2 with this chick and remember everybody that he has lost since this began, but especially Glenn. Michonne hasn’t had the attachment to these people that Rick has by virtue of being the leader. In a way, the whole episode’s theme was reflection if you want to get really deep and thoughtful. Rosita reflected on her decisions and has her discussion with Gabe about it, Tara reflects with Judith, and then the Glenn stuff hits you over the head repeatedly. The roof falling in happen in season 4, episode 1. Being surrounded by walkers in a vehicle with dead military guys goes back to the first episode. The stupid fake out of a character getting eaten by a mob of walkers goes back to the stupid thing that I am beyond sick of in season 6 episode 3. The fact that this episode takes place at a carnival/fair set up is also curious for those familiar with the books because if you recall, it was a fair when Alpha first launches her revenge. Also, TWD likes to incorporate deer more often than you may have considered. Consider Carl got shot in S2 Ep1 when looking at the deer. This was all like a weird flashback.
Rick and company have hit the jackpot a few times when scavenging for supplies. This makes me wonder, do the Saviors do any scavenging, or do they strictly “supervise” other groups into scavenging?
Bitty: Great question!!! I’ve wondered this many times! What do the saviors do? They obviously grow plants and garden and harvest but then they just bully everyone to do the hard stuff for them. Saviors have it all together at their camp but when they are out on their own in small groups I bet they are controllable. (They shouldn’t be controllable. We only have a small sample to really know much, but when we first met the Saviors, with Daryl, Sasha, and Abe getting stopped in the road, it did take an RPG to defeat them. They were all well armed. Shouldn’t they be a better fight, or do you think they may feel a bit of comfort and complacency?)
Bob: They definitely supervise. I wouldn’t waste the effort… It’s dangerous to do though because at any point, the supply chain could set up and the Saviors would be high and dry. (That brings up something that I have often wondered. The Saviors are a huge group. Why doesn’t Negan have 10 people man each down to be more hands on with the supervision? Negan is ruthless, aggressive, smart, but he is not very tactical, and I think we keep seeing flaws in his system.)
Briana: I would think maybe in the beginning they scavenged a bit but now, no. If they did, they would have found the stuff our guys are finding. They just go around barking orders and doing lot of nothing. Just like CEOs. They reap the most benefit but do the least amount of work. Lol.
Kristi: I think they scavenge but are too afraid to be seen by Negan’s crew so the keep a down low.
Kent: This part baffles me. The writers can’t win here. If they were to give me all the info that I request, then they have too much stuff to worry about. Vague is better, but damn, I want a map. We know that there are numerous outposts for the Saviors. We know that they have communities working under them, some which we may not even know of. Still, it seems sloppy that there isn’t better coordination to figure out what has and hasn’t been looked at, especially by locals who are more familiar with the area. Really, nobody knew about this carnival place? I assume the Saviors scavenge and do a bad job at it. Also, let’s never forget the food truck that Rick and Daryl lost due to Jesus.
Is Rosita’s anger towards Father Gabriel appropriate or misguided? Just pick one. Also, what do you think Father Gabriel’s message to Rosita meant? Was it more along the lines of stay within the system, or to go out and do what you need to, or something else?
Bitty: Misguided. Rosita is dumb and hot headed and is grieving. She doesn’t know how to handle her emotions. I think she has Daddy issues. Father Gabriel’s message to Rosita was just spinning it back on her. Her actions, her results. (Father Gabriel and Rosita in a duo scene, just not my cup of tea). (It was my favorite scene. This is why I have you around, very different perspective. Rosita was just acting every other female…..am I right guys? Don’t send me hate mail.)
Bob: Rosita is wicked emotional so all her decisions are misguided even if they end up being the right ones. I think FG was trying to have her stay in the system by giving her options but it didn’t turn out the way FG would have e preferred. (That makes sense. Gabe is at least thinking rational, but it’s not like he has all of the answers, but he is providing the best options that he can come up with.)
Briana: Definitely misguided. Her killing Negan and then dying herself wouldn’t have solved anything. Personally, if she’d have killed him in that moment, I think they would have just taken out everyone within the walls at the time. I don’t think there would have been anything left of Alexandria so it would have been counter productive for everyone. Gabriel being who he is these days, he’s probably telling her to do her own thing. He trusts her judgement for the most part even if he disagreed with that particular plan. (Yeah, within the walls of Alexandria, that would have been like the Wolves’ attack, only with well armed individuals.)
Kristi: Misguided. I think he is saying to balls up and do your damn job. That the group needs her. Her going out to do her own thing is on her. Hoping she will die doing because frankly, she annoys me. (I like that rational of Gabriel telling her to do her job, more of a leadership role.)
Kent: I think her anger is appropriate. She is so hellbent on doing something that anybody that is in her way is a detriment to her, from her perspective. She sees the aftermath and knows that she could have potentially ended it, but instead, let this guy get in her head. We don’t know what would have happened had Lucille not stopped the bullet. She knows that things would be better though. I feel that Gabe’s message was, you basically came to me, I told you what you needed to hear to keep you alive. Make your own decisions, but my advice will keep you alive. My favorite line of the episode was: “But you were… and you did.”
Was now the right time for Tara to tell Rick about Oceanside given the circumstances? Also, how do you foresee that situation going down?
Bitty: I think it’s the right time. I’m beginning to understand Tara’s character more. She has always jumped from group to group and now she is choosing a “forever group” by telling Rick about Oceanside. How is that situation going to go down? I have different ideas, maybe all the men from Oceanside are part of the Saviors now, or maybe Rick will talk with the Scavengers and make them go get the guns at Oceanside. Either way I think Tara’s time will come when Oceanside is breeched. (That last sentence gave me a clue. I so hope she gets got. I can see something similar to the Dawn and Beth scenario where Rick makes a peaceful deal, and the guns are trading hands for some food maybe, and one of the outraged women shoot Tara to finish the job. I really hope so.)
Bob: Oceanside folks could end up dead. They tried killing Tara so that is their attitude. I suppose morally Tara had to tell Rick because it was killing her inside. (I can see that. I can also seeing it get really built up with tension and nothing comes of it.)
Briana: Yes. My biggest concern was that she might tell Rosita first and then she would have ruined everything but telling Rick is definitely the right thing to do. If they can make the right plan, it could work out even though there are big risks. I think they’ll send Tara in first since she knows them a little. Let her explain the situation and what’s going on and then send in the rest. That’s the only way I see it working out. (Oh man, I would have loved it if Rosita would have found out first. That would have led to an exciting episode. I have gone back and forth on how they even start a conversation and if Tara is really the right person to send in first. Hopefully they Ned Stark her.)
Kent: No, she should have told Rick immediately and gotten those bitches massacred back when they an advantage of sorts. Now is fine, but they have an even bigger disadvantage now. Seriously, who is Rick going to bring for this? Rosita and Sasha are going off on their journey. Carol, Morgan, and Daryl are most likely busy. So we will have Tara, Rick, Michonne, Gabriel, and Carl. That’s a perfectly fine squad, but they could really use Carol for this one. She would deliver. I don’t know how this will go down. I feel that they wouldn’t attack if Judith was present, but that wouldn’t be Rick’s way. Probably just a lot of Tara trying to be funny bullshit. I don’t care to know, but I feel that we may get our answer in 2-3 weeks.
What was the most ridiculous thing that happened this episode?
Bitty: Honestly the finding of the gun infested carnival. Rick and Michonne couldn’t have traveled too far from Alexandria and the Saviors, how was this place not found already? Ridonkculous. Also something comical from Talking Dead. Andrew Lincoln describes Michonne killing 8 walkers as “Rickie Dickie” is trying to pull one walker out of a car.
Bob: The zombie shooting the rifle was really dumb.
Briana: Rosita and Sasha thinking they will be able to take Negan out on their own. Look I get it, these girls are bad ass! Like extreme chicks I could never measure up to but holy Christ man! You’ve got a whole crew of bad assery behind you, follow the mother effing plan! Those two are going to die this season and I have no doubts about it at all! At least one of them but most likely both. OH! Then there was the fact that the deer was so fake it was insane! Haha! There was no way to make that thing not look photoshopped in? Lol! (That was one of the worst special effects, if not the worst, that they have done on the show. It reminded me of time during the Bastard Bowl on Game of Thrones and there were so many shot that were too fake, and although the episode was good, it took me out of the moment at times.)
Kent: Oh man, where to begin? You have the sword toss, the walker who’s gun starts going off, the many callbacks to previous episodes, the deer not being startled by all the noise and commotion, the deer itself in all of it’s fakery, but let’s go with Rick using the hooked pole, which I am sure is not incredibly strong, as his weapon of choice.
Was Rick’s car idea, to block off the walkers a good one, without the benefit of hindsight?
Bitty: Again, in the moment. It’s their life and they make the choices, whether good or bad. It was a good plan.
Bob: Oh my gosh, no. That’s a case of over planning and arrogance. (I’m glad that you bring up the arrogance thing. That’s been a thing in this show, and every time that Rick gets too arrogant, something brings him back down to Earth. Something bad is coming. This half season, him and Michonne have taken on like 200 walkers and they just smile and giggle about it. I think somebody has to pay for what Sasha and Rosita are about to do, and it could very well be a crippling blow. Tara and Gabriel seem like 2 characters than can be killed and not affect any future storylines from the comic.)
Briana: Yeah if it had worked, it was a decent plan! If he hadn’t gotten in the car when Michonne started pushing, they probably could have pulled it off. But you can’t help stop a car with out feet on the ground. And then of course the machine gun going off didn’t help matters but yes without hindsight I think it was a decent plan. (They really could have used Fred Flintstone for this mission.)
Kristi: Not a great idea but it worked out so..
Kent: It was a good idea. You can’t plan on the brakes not working. Here’s what got me though. Rick reaches in without checking to see if the walker was alive. Like, season 1 Rick may have been that naive. Season 7 Rick knows better, so what gives? Really dumb writing there. Don’t insult our intelligence.
Why were those walkers’ wrists tied up? I don’t think that there is ever going to be an answer, but have fun with this.
Bitty: I saw that! I paused it to double check that I was seeing it right. I agree that we probably won’t get any answers about this episode. I think the demise of the Carnival was early in the change before people knew how to handle walkers. I think the Military tied up “sick” people and either let them alone while they were deciding what to do with them or had an execution that went wrong. (I like the execution gone wrong theory. It would have been cool to have shown a flashabck for 3 minutes in the beginning about the carnival. I miss opening backstories. That is something that this show is seriously lacking at the moment.)
Bob: I hardly remember this and being such a ridiculous episode….. (I’m just glad that other people saw this episode as absurd as I did. I got wondering, when I was writing these questions up, was it just me that saw the episode in that light.)
Briana: Man! That had me wondering the whole time! What on earth was up with that? My theory is whatever this place was in the beginning, they turned on each other. Maybe the military guys decided they didn’t like having to take care of the non military people? That’s my best guess. (Yeah, I could see them not wanting to share. Panic does lead to irrational behavior….hello 2016.)
Kristi: Their wrists were tied up? I need to start watching this twice. 🙂 (it does help me with my terrible memory to watch twice. This wouldn’t be the best episode to start that policy with. Next week’s should be fine though.)
Kent: I know that there isn’t much to be taken from this, but I will think back to season 1 of Fear The Walking Dead. The military had a quarantine, and kept people in cages. It doesn’t take much imagination to see how this went. Maybe they rounded up the healthy people who started an uprise, so the military took some down and tied up the rest. Or maybe it was something straight out of Stephen King’s The Stand, and maybe this was some kind of entertainment for the military guys. That would also be very cool, like have human carnival games.
Who’s the better negotiator: Rick or Janis?
Bitty: Janis is emotionless. So far so good. Rick is emotional which will get you killed in the apocalypse. This brings me back to “we can live without each other” maybe Rick is learning this for real this time, making him a better negotiator. (Yeah, reading this made me re-watch Rick pleading with The Governor prior to Herschel’s execution. Rick handled that situation poorly. Couldn’t they have just left the prison and tried to rebuild Woodbury?)
Bob: Rick. His presence of a personality and charisma, regardless of the emotionless Jar Jar Binks cult, and his forthrightness will typically win in the end. You can read the “I will kill you” look. (Insulting Jar Jar Binks will always result in applause on my end.)
Briana: They seem very evenly matched but the fact that Rick was able to get double the guns he originally asked for makes me lean toward him. On the other hand, Janis has the opportunity to know he is good for his word and trust that he will be able to return with more. (I still think that she intentionally low balled him to see what kind of person that she was dealing with. If he had just accepted the 10 guns, I don’t think they would have ever really helped Rick’s group.)
Kristi: Rick. I kinda want to punch Janis. (Have you ever seen any of Janis (Polly McIntosh’s movies? I think you would dig of her films. Totally unrelated, but screw it.)
Kent: Let’s go with Janis. She lowballed the hell out of Rick to see who exactly she was dealing with. She was negotiating from a perspective of power while Rick while coming from a position of need. Both got what they wanted. I think Janis is happy to know that these people can end up being her allies. I also liked that she wanted her cat back. It was a fun touch that I am sure somebody else has touched upon.
What will be the outcome of Rosita and Sasha’s mission? If anybody dies, who?
Bitty: Death. I’m hoping we lose Rosita and that Sasha survives. However Rosita won’t die until we see a classic Eugene and Rosita scene. (If they don’t have a Rosita and Eugene scene, this show would have F’d up majorly. It’s very important in my opinion.)
Bob: Sasha dies, Rosita joins the harem. That means Negan lives. (If she joined the harem, I am curious how quickly Arat would start hazing her.)
Briana: Both! I kind of touched on this on the wrong question! Lol! But I think they will get caught one way or the other and they’re going to die. If I had to pick one, it’s Rosita.
Kristi: Rosita will hopefully die. Sasha is pretty badass and I hope she survives.
Kent: Now my answer is far from definite, and I am trying to word this in a way that is without comic spoilers, despite there being no Sasha in the books, and Rosita never goes down this path, there is a similar story that has an awesome ending. We know that Sonequa Martin-Green is going to have a big role in the upcoming Star Trek TV series. When somebody has taken on a role that big, that is usually indicative that they are on borrowed time. Also, she has not been on Talking Dead in awhile, and I think they are saving her and Christan Serratos for that episode. I feel that Rosita’s character has become far too interesting to kill her. On top of that, I like things about her character in the book that leads to Eugene becoming a better character. I think Rosita is safe, and will get transported back to Alexandria, along with a lovely surprise, and the death of Tara or Gabriel. A moral compass or 2 are going to get it this season. I think Rosita needs her redemption storyline before her dies. I also can see Judith in potential danger, but the longer she lasts, the harder it is to kill her. They messed up by not having one of The Governor’s assaults kill her to make Governor more despised.
Did I just watch a romantic comedy set in the zombie apocalypse? More importantly, is a romantic relationship in the zombie apocalypse a strength or a liability? Yes, I stole that from Talking Dead.
Bitty: I really liked this episode. Yes, I know, classic Bitty form but I did! Honeslty I think everyone needs something or someone to love in order to have something to fight for. Love is always a double edge sword you have something to hang on to and fight for but you have something to lose as well. (Bitty, I would have bet my left testicle that you would have loved this episode. I feel anybody who owns their own copy of Titanic probably enjoyed this episode.)
Bob: bah. You know it’s needed. People live for relationships. They are very important.(I agree with the bah part.)
Briana: haha! I didn’t watch talking dead yet this time! So it’s new to me! I know you’re going to hate this answer but it’s truly both. It’s easy to find strength in someone you love but as we saw tonight, when that person is in trouble or when you’re put in a situation where your dependent on them and they can’t be there, it can really cause a problem. Sadly, I could see myself acting exactly as Michonne did when she thought Rick was dead. It’s not something you’d be able to control. But they sure do make a hell of a team! (It’s interesting that this episode aired, and on Tuesday, the comic for March was released. The cliffhanger involves Rick’s special lady friend in the comic may have been bitten. It’s not a spoiler for the show because it’s Andrea, so that’s not happening. I also don’t think the show will last to the point that they currently are in the books. The timing is interesting. I think what you just said is why I wouldn’t want to have a significant other in the ZA, or at the very least, go out on missions with them.)
Kristi: I dont think it was a romantic comedy. The setting is definitely different. There was certainly a romantic tone to the episode though. Are they just doing this for the folks that called the shows too violent? Thats possible. (One episode per half season has to appeal to the “typical female demographic”. I don’t say that to be a jerk, but in order to keep your audience, you have to offer a lowest common denominator type episode, and that’s what we really had here. I do love the theory that this was a response to the participation trophy section of society. I don’t think it is, but I can’t be sure on the filming timeline, so I like your idea better.)
Kent: I know that they tried to have some levity, similar to the Rick and Daryl meet Jesus episode, BUT this just bombed for me. Seriously, this was a chick flick set in the ZA. This wasn’t as bad as the Oceanside episode, mainly thanks to Rosita and Gabe, but close. So many stupid, utterly irritating moment that I’m sure some females just soaked up and now they talking about Richonne and relationships, or just ships for the millennial morons. I really loathed this episode, and I probably am being a tad mean, which means that I should be a little more mean. In the ZA, no romance. Booty calls are cool. Getting in good with somebody who is weaker than you is ok because you can always cut them loose and escape. You don’t want to be on the weaker end of the spectrum unless you are with some pathetic white knight. Then you milk that for all it is worth. I really had to tidy up this response as it was originally much much meaner and insulting to readers. Classy!
Have you ever secretly wished one of the good guy characters would die? People like Spencer, who were generally disliked, don’t count.
Bitty: Well at this point who is left from OG WD? Rick, Carl, Carol, Daryl and Maggie? So of those 5… NO WAY!! (First of all, you left out Morgan who is only behind Rick on seniority, then Carl, Carol, and Daryl. Maggie is technically 2nd season, but she has 6th highest seniority and Michonne appeared at the tail end of 2, so she is 7th. After that it goes Judith and Sasha in 3, Eugene, Rosita, and Tara in 4, Father Gabriel, Aaron and eventually the rest of Alexandria in 5. Judith having the 8th highest seniority really surprised me.)
Bob: Not at all, not once.
Briana: I feel that way now! Lol! I am so ready for Rosita to go I can’t stand it! She was alright when she was like Abe’s second but now she’s like a soldier without her CO and she’s gone totally off the rails. She’s dangerous and careless. And she just gets on my nerves. (Sometimes I leave pointless comments. This will be one of those times. When you said CO, I’m like, why would Rosita need a corrections officer? Yeah…..I have to admit when I am a moron.)
Kristi: I was OK with Olivia dying. She was just not built for the war that is coming on. She would have died anyway. I think Negan did us a favor there. (I don’t think anybody has spoke ill of Olivia, so good job. I liked her, but she was a bit of a liability and totally expendable.)
Kent: Well, it’s no secret that I wish for Tara to die every single week. Honestly, I wanted Michonne to get bit here. I have wanted Glenn dead numerous times in season 4-6. I wanted Lori dead as soon as she started messing with Rick and Shane. Andrea I wanted dead, but she is like Tara, I have hated her from the get go. Beth, Noah, hell, Daryl at times all fit. I really wanted Negan to smash Maggie’s dome in. There’s really only a handful of characters that I haven’t secretly wanted dead. They would include Merle, Abe, Governor, Herschel, Shane, Carol, Bob, and Shumpert.
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.
Welcome back to the only Walking Dead blog that adds a 9 Deuce gimmick. I am your host, Kent, and this week I am joined by Bob, Briana, Cece, and Teddy. This week, we were tasked wondering, would we want the red or orangey pasta? We have 2 characters in Dwight and Eugene who are so very different, yet are going through some similar struggles. Most importantly though, we met the Gremblygunk. So that’s cool
In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce. Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else. If you would like to participate, let me know. The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits. Enjoy this meme, provided to me via Cece. Please note all messages in bold are written by me.
Eugene is asked by Laura what he would like, and he asks for lobster, but he at least ends up with orangey pasta and pickles. Thinking realistically, what food item would you have asked for that may have been there?
Bob: I would have asked for hot dogs and sauerkraut, both are well preserved and have a ton of fat and protein. Yes, Twinkies too. (The Hot Dogs are incredibly versatile, and while I have never been a fan of Twinkies despite being pleasantly plump, if we substitute that with the Snowballs or Zingers, then I’m sold.)
Briana: Pizza! If I’m trying to think of something I eat often that I would go without and the most practical thing that has a chance of being around, I go with Pizza lol! (I am mostly curious if they have figured out how to make cheese because Eastman, Morgan’s life coach, couldn’t make good cheese.)
Cece: Fuck man, ALL THE CHIPS and of course tacos somehow. (I am curious where they get their meat, because if it’s from The Kingdom, I don’t want that.)
Teddy: Man I’m a slut for pickles. I would ask for that or ramen, because who doesn’t have ramen lol. (Annnnd the real winner of this question is the man who proclaims himself to be a slut for pickles. Kudos.)
Kent: I feel that baked chicken wings would be doable in the ZA, so I will go with that. That jar of pickles would be amazing though. I love pickles.
After Eugene gave Negan the smelter idea, did they just become best friends? This can be taken seriously or you can just do a Step Brothers quote. Both would be fine here.
Bob: Regardless of what we see in Negan… No one is his best friend besides himself. I don’t think Eugene truly believes he is Negan’s best friend, but rather in a position of need and power.
Briana: I think Negan thought so. I think Eugene is playing them and biding his time.
Cece: Nah. Not at all. Negan just wants to use him, of course. Negan doesn’t care about anyone but himself. (Yeah, I think Negan basically is smart enough to play ball to maximize his use out of Eugene. He was a teacher, just like Eugene, but they don’t know that they have that in common.)
Teddy: They became best friends like I did with my drill sergeant at basic. It’s never a good thing, because if anything goes wrong it’s your fault.
Kent: Well, it certainly sounded to me like Negan was going to invest. Rick is busy dealing with boats and hoes, so Negan will fortify Sanctuary, maybe add more room for activities. I think Negan has taken a shine to Eugene and he knows that this guy can keep the Saviors on top, and his expense is very little in all reality.
Who is the biggest ladies man on the show?
Bob: Abe WAS. But now, Negan, as he has the confidence thing going for him as well as the power thing. He is like a king or Pharaoh… (If Andrea was alive, I bet you that she would be one of Negan’s wives. She went for guys in power.)
Briana: I would go with Jesus or maybe Ezekiel. Jesus has the eyes and playful personality. Ezekiel has the brute force with a soft side thing going on. (I thought Jesus’ eyes would be brought up way more. Good job.)
Cece: In a sense, Eugene. But also, Jesus. (Can Eugene count if his interaction with women include jerking off to Abe and Rosita going at it, Tara the lesbian being kind to him, and Negan’s wives feigning interest in him to get something? If so, I am totally down with that response.)
Teddy: Right now I say Jesus. Bitches love Jesus. (That should go on a shirt. Bitches love Jesus.)
Kent: Wait, nobody said Daryl???? I’m kinda shocked. Plus, Rick has gone through Lori, Jessie, and now Michonne, but gets no love, plus Beth kissed him. I found this surprising, but this is why we do this blog.
I gotta go with Shane. He had Lori and then Andrea is short succession. The Governor was my second choice in bagging Andrea and then Lily. Had he also taken Maggie, he would have won this one. Abe also has to be considered with Rosita and then getting in the suit with Sasha, and even helping out that chick at the construction site, I think it was Annie. Man, lots of considerations. Hell, Axel was asking about Beth and then Carol once he discovered that she wasn’t a lesbian.
Will we ever see Sherry again?
Bob: Oh yeah! I hope so! We need some backfiring! Dwight’s true colors have to be revealed, just so we can see a feigned smile from Negan! (Wow, that’s twice that a form of feign has been used in this blog. That is neat.)
Briana: I’m guessing yes, but part of me hopes it will be as a walker. Haha! I liked Sherry but it would make for a hell of a moment. (We don’t get to have those moments anymore, so it would be nice. I think the biggest one was Daryl finding Merle, and that was heartbreaking, and this could be the same if they did it right.)
Cece: I hope so. I liked Dwight’s little treat for her 🙂
Teddy: I mean Dwight NEEDS to find her. If he doesn’t then Negan will have no use for Dwight. I do feel like he backed himself into a corner with saying he killed her. (Right. It goes back to Merle lying to Governor about killing Michonne. If Sherry resurfaces, Dwight will have to kill her or defect.)
Kent: It seems viable that we would. The whole Dwight thing, I think they are doing a wonderful job with it compared to how the comics handled it. It’s much more story driven and complex with layers, and I really love his story so far. I know where it goes in the books, but that doesn’t always mean much. Dr. Carson had a very different path in the books.
Did Negan’s wives really like Eugene or were they just using him, or both. Yes, I am allowing a both response for once.
Bob: Both, he did not use them as far as he was allowed to. He looks like a good guy even. But they were definitely using him, whether or not he is a good guy.
Briana: A little of both but I lean more toward the using part. They definitely wouldn’t have given him a second thought if they hadn’t needed him but I don’t think they minded his company too much. (There you go. That’s the thing I kept thinking about.)
Cece: Absolutely both. I think they found it nice to be around someone who was kind and not so expecting of them, but they also wanted help for Amber or whatever.
Teddy: I think they do like him, but he is a means to an end.
Kent: They liked the break from the norm that Eugene represented. They liked the idea of it more than the man. But that was it. Bitches were using him, as bitches do. I wrote a song about it. Just using him is the answer. Yeah, I misled you all by saying that it could be both.
Do you consider Eugene a coward, yes or no? Why? Also, should he have given the girls the pills?
Bob: He should not have given the girls the pills, no way. He is a coward and as I responded in a previous blog, Eugene will be loyal to whomever exercises power over him. (As currently presented, yes, you are right on the money. Hopefully, that eventually changes.)
Briana: No, not at this point. I have a strange feeling everything he’s done has been strategic. I don’t think he’s being cowardly at all. And giving those pills to them would have led straight back to him. He did the right thing keeping them. (Realistically, aside from Rick, Eugene may be the ultimate survivor in that he has had to do very little, compared to pretty much every other living person in that world, in order to survive. Rick is probably the ultimate survivor because he does whatever he has to.)
Cece: Not a coward entirely. He’s grown a lot since the beginning. He probably shouldn’t have messed around and gave them the pills because he will probably get figured out.
Teddy: This episode showed how fucking boss Eugene is. Yes he does shy from a fight but that makes him smart, not a coward. Eugene is trying to save people his way, even if it’s just a mercy killing. (This show has done Eugene justice, no doubt.)
Kent: Yes, of course he’s a coward. But he is smart and he knows how to lie.The man is brilliant, but his particular set of skills aren’t toughness and bravery, not yet at least. This stint with Negan will provide that last bit that make Eugene my favorite character in the franchise.
Why did Dwight end up screwing over Dr. Carson? Do you consider Dwight a bad guy?
Bob: Dwight hopes to be with his woman again. He is a bad guy now, but his heart is still not behind Negan. He outsmarted Negan and manipulated him.
Briana: As with everything else Dwight does, he was saving his and Sherry’s asses.
Cece: Dwight is doing ANYTHING he can to protect the woman he loves because he wants to be with her again. Not a bad guy, just a selfish guy. (Hmm, I would love to have you elaborate more on the selfish aspect of your statement. I haven’t considered what he’s done as selfish, but would like to hear your take.)
Teddy: Dwight did what he needed to protect Sherry. That being said it does corner you when you make lies like that. (Lies tend to backfire in the ZA moreso than in real life. I think it’s because there’s less people to cause a distraction from the truth.)
Kent: Dwight keeps digging that hole and he doesn’t know how to get out. I sense that there was some underlying issues between him and the doc because Sherry was working with the doc, like some jealousy. Yeah, it’s probably not that, but let’s go with jealousy. I absolutely don’t think that Dwight is any more of a bad guy than Rick. Once again, if the show has told us Dwight’s story for 7 seasons, we may find ourselves being totally cool with his actions.
Has Eugene gone to the “dark side”?
Bob: Yes, until the Saviors seem to be losing their grip over everything. Eugene is a drone, he will be with and under anyone who protects him or threatens him. (I’m going to guess that by season’s end, your perspective may change.)
Briana: No. I really think he’s being a lot smarter than he’s letting on. He’s playing the role he needs to survive until his group gets to him. I think he has complete faith that they will come for him one way or another. (I actually wondered about that. He already sacrificed himself in the season 6 finale when he drove the RV. I have been wondering if he has decided to just make the best of this situation, or if he really believes that he will be rescued. He knows that the odds are very drastic of getting rescued. I wanna talk to Kirkman now and get answers.)
Cece: I don’t think so. It’s all in good timing. I think he will use his experience with the Saviors to do some good in the regular group. (That’s another good point. Say that Eugene does eventually reunite with the group, unlike Daryl, Eugene is experiencing the Saviors thing entirely different. I imagine that this would lead to better management moving forward. No matter how “evil” the Saviors are supposed to be, they have a good system in a lot of ways.)
Teddy: Dark side? Nah Eugene just created a persona to survive. He did it with Abraham and he is doing again here.(Yeah, it’s the simplest way of viewing it. He’s just doing the same stuff with a new audience, like a magician.)
Kent: No, but how awesome would that be? He is biding his time. When it happens, you will be cheering. He will milk it for what it is worth for awhile I suspect. Maybe even sabotage something and potentially blame others. Like a game of chess.
Is Eugene appreciated more by Negan than he was by Rick’s group?
Bob: Yes. At least he has a function and he has some authority, albeit that authority is on borrowed time. Eugene hasn’t experienced the ramifications of a failed task yet.
Briana: I have to say yes. The group got used to his ramblings of things they didn’t understand. Negan is seeing it for the first time and it’s getting his juices going.
Cece: Probably. No one has ever seemed to really give Eugene time to shine. Now is his time.
Teddy: Outside the blonde girl, I say no. The Saviors just use people. There is no appreciation behind it. You do what they say or you die.
Kent: If I look at it post Eugene admitting to his lie, I think that Negan actually appreciates him more. I know that is weird. Yes, they listened to him about the Sorghum, but the dude had ideas and they should have really utilized him better. Negan simply asked for ideas, Eugene gave him one and they started implementing it the next day. I feel that moving forward, in Negan’s mind, he probably wants Eugene in a Milton like role for the Governor.
Negan views Daryl as “emotional”. Do you think Negan views Dwight as emotional as well?
Bob: No, he is blind to such things and these are simply talking points where Negan wants to just hear himself sound great and pretentious. (Judging by some of your responses, I get the feeling that you view Negan as not necessarily a smart and aware dude, but rather a fear wielding ruler who is oftentimes too full of himself. Would that be somewhat accurate?)
Briana: It’s possible Dwight does a pretty decent job hiding his emotional side in front of Negan these days. I’m sure he thought he was emotional but might not see that now.
Cece: Absolutely. They’re both very alike in the way they act.
Teddy: Dwight is the great value brand of Daryl. So anything Daryl is Dwight is but to a lesser extent. (Nice Great Value brand reference!)
Kent: I feel that Dwight is that one person that is almost off of Negan’s radar. I think he feels that he has done enough to make him his bitch. He knows that stuff bothers Dwight, but he also fully expects Dwight to shut that shit down, as Negan would say, and do his job, and so far, Dwight has done that, giving Negan no reason to question Dwight’s emotional state. I also feel that Negan actually pays attention to Dwight’s emotional side because he gives him extra attention at times, whether it to prove a point, or maybe offer some encouragement. Guys like Dwight are rare for Negan, I suspect, so I believe that Dwight is one of the few people that Negan keeps a pulse on.
Do you think there is any rhyme or reason behind the choosing of Yars’ Revenge as the video game on the Atari 2600?
Bob: I can see a parallel. I guess we can see Eugene as being in a neutral zone of sorts… (Interesting interpretation that I hadn’t considered.)
Cece: Not entirely sure because I’m not too familiar with the game myself. (30+ years ago, that game fun as hell. Probably closer to 35 years. It will seem lame by anybody who doesn’t have the nostalgic memories to support playing it though.)
Teddy: I love the knowledge of old school games. Shows that he is a nerd. It’s relatable to me. (Same here.)
Kent: I want to say yes. I can’t fully say yes because I don’t know how things will play out, but if Eugene ends up being a catalyst for the fall of Sanctuary, for instance, I would consider that Eugene’s Revenge. Why would you pick a game that was popular, but isn’t well known by the vast majority of your main demographic? If you wanted to go with Atari, you could have gone with a bunch of other games like a Pac Man, Missile Command, Centipede, Asteroids, Donkey Kong, E.T., but they went with Yars’ Revenge, which doesn’t have a terribly elaborate story, although a comic did come with the original game explaining things a bit. This show oftentimes has rhymes and reasons behind things that don’t come to fruition for a season or 2, or things tie back to past seasons. I think this is one.
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.
Welcome back to the only Walking Dead blog that adds a 9 Deuce gimmick. I am your host, Kent, and this week I am joined by Bob and Briana. So far, I am digging this half season of the show, and fully expect this coming week to be solid. But before we can get to that, let’s talk about the week that was. Any comments in bold are from me.
In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce. Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else. Finally, this is a stain on my buddy Tom’s floor at work. I felt that you needed to see this.
Was Richard’s idea about killing Saviors and leading them to Carol a good idea or bad idea, in the grand scheme of things? As he said “What we have to do requires sacrifice one way or the other.”
Bob: Bad idea. A life isn’t worth it to bring a plan to fruition that already has a low likelihood of occurring. Which reminds me of the car scene from the previous episode. (Bonus points for mocking last week’s nonsense!)
Briana: Of course we don’t want it to be the right thing because it’s Carol. So my emotional side wants to say no it’s a terrible plan but the reality is yes it’s a good plan for what he’s wanting to accomplish. It would absolutely work the way he hopes and get Ezekiel on board with joining the resistance. (You’re right, it does accomplish some things. I feel it’s one of those things that still wouldn’t have worked out well, no matter what.)
Kent: In theory, yes. The whole “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” applies here. Every once in awhile, someone is so exceptional though, that they are just too important. On top of that, Richard is showing that he is too much of a hothead and not good at being clever in his attack. His heart is in the right place, but his execution is garbage. Now if you told me that Carol and Daryl were going to be a 2 person wrecking crew, or Rick and Michonne, that would make more sense because they work well together. Whoever dies from the Kingdom isn’t as important as Carol, aside from Ezekiel. Remember, Carol rescued everybody from Terminus.
Out of the 3 animal statues that we saw at the Scavenger’s base, which did you prefer: the cat, the rooster, or the pig?
Bob: The cat because it was the only one I remember!
Briana: To be honest, I believe I missed the rooster and pig! Haha! I’m sure I saw it but can’t remember what they look like so I have to go with the cat. Additionally it was super fun that Rick grabbed it for Michonne! I hope I’m right about the reference bc I had to explain to the rest of the household about the restaurant she and Carl went to where she found that funky cat. (It was during season 3, when Rick was still iffy about Michonne and they found crazy Morgan at the time. So you are correct.)
Kent: The pig was cool, but I guess I enjoyed the rooster. Really, this is what I am resorting to for questions?
Why do the Scavengers talk so oddly? In theory, they are normal people who have survived this long in the zombie apocalypse, but they don’t seem to be foreigners or millennials.
Bob: Yeah they seem to have created their own culture based on their experiences and environment. They are on the line of being a cult, order they are. (It seems a tad odd that they have developed this in such a short time, but I concur with you.)
Briana: My theory on that is that they just became so used to this lifestyle over the past few years that they eventually turned completely over to the “we don’t bother” thing, Including complete sentences! Haha! (Hmmm, a society of lazy asses. That’s something that I can totally get…)
Kent: I know that the writers and or producers wish to give each group a unique enough identity, but the lack of full sentences was breaking my balls. Then the “up up up”, which I know people want to make a Stranger Things reference, so I will go with the Contra code reference instead. Janis almost talked normally, almost. These names, like what the hell? I feel that this was the epitome of style over substance. On the plus side, Polly McIntosh is awesome, and I have seen her in many things, including Exam, Let Us Prey (with the dude who plays Davos in Game of Thrones), and The Woman, which is a neat film. Glad to see her on board.
Was Winslow, the spiky walker, the toughest walker to kill, as of this episode? If you say no, explain yourself. Also, shouldn’t Rick be in constant pain given all the injuries that he has suffered over this relatively short period of time?
Bob: No. Every person’s 1st Walker is probably the hardest to kill. There are two factors that play into this… first getting over the killing of another person albeit, they are dead it is still quite a hurdle. Second, the actually physically hardest to kill, which is Winslow, due to “add-ons” that other Walkers do not get the benefit of having. (I hadn’t considered that, but you are right. Also, we are led to believe that as walkers age, they are more “frail” so the earlier ones should have been more difficult.)
Briana: Yeah I definitely think it was one of the toughest walkers we’ve seen, maybe in the series! It really took a lot of thinking for them to come up with how to take him out. I was wondering why he didn’t consider just trying to get one of the posts out of it and use it. And I absolutely think Rick’s injuries are far fetched! In fact when he climbed out of the pit, I said “and two weeks later Rick died of infection” because come on! These guys haven’t dealt with any kind of problems from scrapes and cuts the way I believe they would if this were a reality. (This nonsense with how easily and fast that people heal, namely Rick, is mind boggling. I’m still trying to find out if scratches will, or ever did kill a person in this show.)
Kent: On one hand, you want to say yes, because it looks intimidating and appears very dangerous. Then you see it get taken out by pillows, and it doesn’t seem so scary. I will offer the walker that Abe and Eugene find in episode 14 of season 6, the one covered in lead, I believe. Also, the one in season 2, episode 11, the one who killed Dale was pretty bad ass considering how strong it was. Fortunately, Janis shoving Rick brought back great memories of The Stand when Stu Redman tumbled down the embankment. Seriously, pillows!
Is Carol the linchpin to Rick’s group overcoming the Saviors? We have now heard some references about how Carol would have done this or that if she knew the truth.
Bob: Yes, as I have answered in a previous blog, she is the trigger for the Kingdom and Alexandria coming together.
Briana: I really think Carol would be a huge asset to the plan to take out the Saviors but is she completely vital? No. And I don’t say this lightly. Carol is my GIRL! But she’s not in the same mind frame she was when she took out Terminus. As much as it drove me insane, Darryl did the right thing not telling her about Glenn and everything else. We all have phases in our lives and right now, Carol can’t handle what’s happening around her. She will come back from this but I don’t think it will be right now. And they will do just fine with their new alliances. (Assuming they are able to confirm those)
Kent: It’s either her or Eugene. There is another obvious person that I won’t say, but maybe next week, it becomes more clear. Whatever Carol does will have some impact and meaning. Whether she lives or dies, it will have a big impact. I think the answer is yes.
If Daryl and Carol ever hook up, or “shipped” for you braindead millennials, will that result in one of them dying soon thereafter, or would they be a power couple like Rick and Michonne, or Richonne for those of you with female body parts who watch the E! Network?
Bob: No one would die, so after Negan is over we can have Ezekiel pissed at the Alexandrians… long shot! (Man, that’s a reality show just waiting to happen. It would be interesting. In the books, Ezekiel and Michonne have a thing going, kind of, so with that obviously not happening, lots of possibilities exist.)
Briana: hmmmmmm…. I try not to actually consider the 2 of them hooking up. Haha! In the beginning I thought it would be cool but let’s face it, she’s AT LEAST 10-15 years older than he is. They have an extremely special bond but I don’t think it’s romantic. If it were going to be, it would’ve been by now. But to humor you, (hehe) I think they’d have to be a power couple. They’re both such important characters to the story at this point that it would be wayyyyy too much to put them together and then kill one of them. (I immediately had to look it up. She has less than 4 years on him. I’m as shocked as you are. Those years with Ed has aged her horribly.)
Kent: They have had so many opportunities to have Daryl and Carol hook up, practically every season since the second season. From Daryl looking for Sophia and saving Carol from the farm herd in season 2, to her bringing him food and wanting to fool around and him finding her in the prison in 3, to her and him flirting in the first episode of season 4, to her and him going to find Beth and being alone together in the building in season 5, to her and him having that last talk before she took off, the teasing has always been there. It seems like one of those plot devices that as soon as they finally give in, one will die because that’s what TWD does.
Choose one. Who’s more right: Rosita (wanting to go out and get the guns now and finish this deal) or Tara (wanting to go back home to regroup and get healed)? Pick one, do not go in the middle because that shows a lack of reading comprehension and that you are probably a horrible person to go to a restaurant with, with your indecisiveness.
Bob: I am bad to go to a restaurant with. Tara, though. (You were always a treat to go to Friendly’s with.)
Briana: LMAO!! Honestly I see both sides so your question cracks me up but I know how to choose a side when necessary! As much as it pains me to say (because at this point I can’t stand either of them) I’ll go with Tara. While it is very important that they go out and find guns for the deal, they’ve been out for too long for what’s happening right now. They need to check the situation with the Saviors, Rick is injured, they need a plan, and where the hell has Judith been? Someone should check on the baby! However, I have to add that if Rosita wants to break off and go look on her own for a while, that’s completely justifiable and beneficial. But they just can’t ALL go out searching right now. (I could get behind Rosita going to scavenge, maybe bring Carl. Out of anybody in the group, she wouldn’t yell at Carl, I don’t think.)
Kent: In theory, Tara is right, but everybody just magically heals pretty easily, think about all of Rick’s cuts and stabs and shots, and whatever else, all over the course of like 3 years. So knowing that, Rosita is right, and I love her bitchy attitude at the moment. If only she had killed Tara, I would have been more pumped. Also, where’s Heath?
Rick noted that Tara had been further out than anyone else. Do you think that we will see Oceanside or any of their members this season?
Bob: Maybe at the end?
Briana: Oh absolutely. This whole thing was a lead up to going back to Oceanside. Simply the fact that they wanted guns in the first place was a hint to me. Where else in this mess would they find guns for them? I don’t think it will be pretty by any means but there’s no where else to look. (I swear, we need a damn map, like Game of Thrones has. We have so many extra groups on the show that aren’t covered in the comics and I have no idea how many more are out there. The books kept it simple with Alexandria, Sanctuary, Hilltop, and Kingdom.)
Kent: I hope not. The group itself despises Tara and wants her dead, but also hates the Saviors. The motivation is there, and women power, and Ghostbusters 2016, fuck, most likely they will, and I will start bitching and moaning. I wish Negan and Lucille would just rape all of them to death. That would be the greatest episode ever.
Why is Daryl leaving The Kingdom and going back to the Hilltop?
Sorry to cut Bob off, but listen to this music while thinking about the scene. You’re welcome.
Bob: Daryl isn’t Daryl following orders or going along with the program. He’s leaving because he is not an idle person, ever. (SO what you’re saying is that he’s the antithesis of me?)
Briana: Because he’s an idiot who likes to put people in danger! Lol! No I honestly don’t know what the game plan is. I think he’s just not the type to sit around and wait for things to happen or wait to be told to do so. This is his way of jumping in and doing something even if it is the worst possible idea he’s ever had. (He does have a history of putting people in danger with his secondary storylines. There are actually quite a few, but the obvious one is staying around Woodbury for Merle.)
Kent: Honest reason is that it’s for drama and to give Daryl his own story so the ladies can continue to swoon. The reality is that it serves no purpose. He knows that the Hilltop people are willing to fight, and I can see that he could potentially help train them, but that place is terribly unsafe with Gregory in charge, and the Saviors do come inside the Hilltop. He is way safer in the Kingdom, and he has a job, which is to wear Ezekiel down. So Daryl is just being as dumb as Richard is. He’s not thinking clearly.
Bonus Deuce – The past 10 days, I have binge watched most of the TWD franchise, and it has gotten me thinking quite a bit, so let’s analyze a bit.
Who has hurt Alexandria the most since we first laid eyes upon the settlement: A) The Wolves (The slaughter), B) The Saviors (Abe, Glenn, Denise, Olivia, Spencer, taking supplies), C) The Walkers (Various deaths, plus the herd that killed Deanna, Carter, Jessie, Sam, and Ron, plus Carl’s eye), or D) Rick’s Group (How much of this happens if Rick’s group never goes to Alexandria, Pete would be alive, Morgan would be wandering, Aiden, Nicholas, and Reg may still be alive)?
Bob: E. The original Alexandrians.
Briana: Though all of these things have been devastating to Alexandria, I have to still go with the Saviors. They aren’t just killing some people, they’re finding every possible way to make their lives hell along with killing people. They’re taking away what little comfort they have, most of their food and ways to defend themselves. They’ve taken away their security where everything else has been manageable and there’s always a light at the end of the tunnel.
Kent: I have spent hours thinking about this. It’s not D nor C. The Wolves present an interesting argument, so I will make it as Bri has done the Saviors one. We know that the Wolves killed at least 10 people, probably closer to 20. They were no name people by and large, people that we didn’t have an attachment to. Most of these people were not like Liam Neeson in Taken, they probably didn’t have a particular set of useful skills. But I think the Wolves caused, BY FAR, the most amount of deaths. Deaths of people that could have been trained. If you look at the Kingdom, they are training. Back at Herschel’s farm, Shane trained them. Had you not lost say 10 people, that could be 10 more people to help fight and scavenge, or learn medical stuff because they need medics. They need a new hairdresser. Yes, losing Abe was HUGE, as was Denise. Glenn was to an extent as he was great at scavenging, but he was kinda acting like a bitch towards the end. It really comes down to this, if The Wolves kill count was 15 or more, then I pick them, otherwise I go with Saviors due to Abe and Denise.
Honestly, what purpose did the Wolves serve?
Bob: Removing the security and lack of preparedness of Alexandria.
Briana: For me, it was like just a brutal way to bring Morgan back. They find him, he keeps them alive and then they kill a bunch of Alexandrians. Otherwise, it seems they’re done and didn’t do a whole lot of anything. Maybe to also be the beginnings of Morgan seeing the fault in his life is precious bullshit. I saw no real purpose so I’m reaching for what I can! Lol!
Kent: I hate to get wordy, especially after my last response, but I must. Let’s go back to season 5, episode 9. Beth had just died. Noah want to go check on his old community, and in the process, Tyrese dies. While that is happening, Rick, Glenn, and Michonne say that going to DC is still the right call, and it’s about 100 miles from there. Shortly after, they discover walker bodies with the W carved in. So the Wolves were there. Our group travels north to Alexandria, 8.5 miles away from DC, so they traveled approximately 90 miles. Somehow, they end up right near where The Wolves ended up setting up shop. HOW CONVENIENT? Seriously? Bob is right, and really it’s that plus to add drama, and to show how much of a bad ass Carol is. It was also a device to get Morgan’s backstory and to see the why behind his “all life is precious” philosophy, which is what Bri brought up. The thing is, not all of the Wolves died. We never got closure. It’s worse than never getting closure on Morales or the Vatos in season 1. We never got closure on the boy and the girl that were with Lizzie and Mika when they grabbed Judith as Governor was attacking the prison with a tank. That boy and girl were never seen or mentioned ever again. The Walking Dead is chock full of convenient plot devices and alas, this was one of them, and it could have been so much cooler, but it came and went with a whimper rather than a bang.
Thank you to Mark for this lovely meme.
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.
Welcome everyone to the only Walking Dead related blog that adds a silly 9 Deuce gimmick. The first week back was rough for my contributors, with Valentine’s Day and some other things. Fortunately, I am not alone as I had 2 gentlemen help out, Bob and Eric, so round of applause for them, and much appreciation. I would like to say congratulations to Bob on his newest child. Somehow he still found time to provide answers to my inane questions. Sweet.
In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce. Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else.
What is Father Gabriel doing? .Who is watching Judith?
Bob: I have no idea what this cat is doing. I know he has a plan and he is determined. Judith… ahhh uhm.. no clue.
Eric: I think that the supplies he was gathering up wasn’t for him. He was very rushed and sloppy. I’d be interested to be able to read closer whatever he was reading. (Kent: I think it would be fascinating to look through that notebook.)
Kent: First, the potentially easier thing to guess. I will say that Kent and his woman are watching her, although Tobin seems more likely. As far as Gabriel is concerned, I think that whoever spied on Alexandria at the very end of the last episode gave Gabriel some rather explicit instructions on what they wanted and that is why he was so hurried and sloppy when gathering the canned goods. Also, there’s a person in the car with him….probably Heath.
Is Gregory doing what’s best for: A) Himself, B) The Hilltop, C) Both himself and Hilltop, or D) Neither? Also, who’s the bigger jerk: Gregory or Simon?
Bob: A) Himself, although be projects it inaccurately upon the Hilltop as well.
Eric: He is looking out for himself with the Hilltop on the side. He knows how unpredictable Negan is and if Greg is seen as important maybe Negan wont bash his skull in. Gregory is a huge dick. (Kent: I think you will find that we eventually see something play out. I think people will love it more than the Spencer incident.)
Kent: D is my response. I think that Gregory believes that as long as he is the leader, he holds value in Negan’s eyes, but that’s only true of a leader with a strong will and grip on his people, so not Gregory. Also, he keeps proving his enemy with more supplies, strengthening their cause. Yes, I will discuss this later. I think that Gregory may be a bigger jerk than Simon, but it’s damn near 50/50, but I refuse to say both. Simon is technically still following, and trying to motivate. Gregory pulls off this facade that he is trying to be a “good guy” while being a dick. He seals the deal with his theatrics and calling people their incorrect name. Gregory may be one of my 5 favorite current characters for all of the reasons that I just mentioned.
Are the members of the Hilltop community making the smart decision, for them and their community, in wanting to join Alexandria’s cause?
Bob: Yes. Live Free or Die! (Kent: I don’t know what film reference to make here. Lots of options. Eh, half Les Miserables and half Bill Pullman’s speech in Independence Day sounds about right.)
Eric: Strength in numbers. Even though some are reluctant to join the cause. I feel its in everyone’s best interest to fight against Negan and the Saviors.
Kent: With the Hilltop in particular, those wanting to join Alexandria to fight against Negan are wise. They probably know that they are going to most likely be the pawns in this game of chess, but pawns sometimes survive. If they don’t act now and help their best chance at getting out from under Negan’s thumb is to join the cause and hope for the best. Those are better long term odds. As for what both gentlemen above me spoke on, I have often wondered about the mentality of somebody in a community. I have wondered what percentage are optimists. If you’re an optimist, you fight for a better tomorrow. What about the eternal pessimists, which even if you weren’t prior to the ZA, maybe you have changed. If you’re a pessimist and you pretty much live day to day with low expectations, are you really going to risk your life for such a cause? It’s something that I have been pondering.
Would Richard be a better leader than King Ezekiel?
Bob: No, he is too war hawkish. Richard is perfect where he is.
Eric: Richard doesn’t necessarily think things through. He is right where he belongs
Kent: As currently presented, yes. To go back to something said in the show, the more the Hilltop and the Kingdom provide the Saviors, they weaken themselves while strengthening the enemy. At some point you have to cut your losses and go for it before the ratio is too out of balance that you have no chance. Richard gets this principle and Ezekiel doesn’t The hard thing for me is that overall, Ezekiel is the wiser leader for the day to day stuff and keeping things going. But none of that matters if they are eventually are too weak to keep that community going.
Will there be any repercussions or fallout from Morgan lying to Rick and Daryl about Carol’s whereabouts? Will Benjamin be the person who blows Carol’s cover?
Bob: Daryl will not trust Morgan ever again until something else happens that forces him to trust him. Rick will broken-heartedly rebuke Morgan, it might end their relationship, but probably not. Benji will not blow any cover…
Eric: it will hurt the trust that Morgan and Rick have. Even though Morgan helped Rick out in episode 1 and 2. The rest of the group might not be so forgiving.
Kent: I can see Daryl following somebody like Ben out in the woods and meeting up with Carol. I think he finds her in some way accidentally and he convinces her to step back into the fire. That could subsequently lead to Carol getting into Ezekiel’s ear. As for fallout, I guess it comes down to if Rick is in desperation mode Rick or in Ricktatorship mode. Both gents above me talk about various ways of how the lie could be potentially compartmentalized in some capacity, and I didn’t think about it in that way, but I think they are onto something.
What will happen first: A) The Saviors step foot inside the walls of the Kingdom, B) Daryl talks Ezekiel into joining the cause, or C) Daryl stares Ezekiel into submission?
Bob: A, then B
Eric: The King seems to think that the Saviors will never set foot inside the walls, and with Negan actively looking for Daryl, lets hope that doesn’t happen. So I say B.
Kent: C, as I am guessing that he will convince Ezekiel to let him go outside the walls for some purpose and hopefully it will be through the power of staring. The safe money is on A though.
Was it worth the risk to get the explosives all things considering? More importantly, do you find it feasible that Rick and Michonne came out of that unscathed?
Bob: Sure is! It shows they will do anything it takes for their freedom! It is feasible for the unscathed result, but not reasonable.
Eric : Not totally unfeasible. But the cars and the wire wouldn’t have come out undamaged, but maybe the walkers are easier to take down now that time has passed and their bodies aren’t as solid as they once were. With Negan taking all of their weapons, it was worth it for the coming fight.
Kent: We can all look back with some confidence and be like, yeah it’s our group, of course it was worth it. The reality is that they probably could have gotten 2 less bundles and been smarter. As for Rick and Michonne somehow going unscathed, this is beyond absurd. Last I knew, scratches can still infect you. Just because the walkers are slowly weakening, they are still a threat. They can still easily lunge at you. They still have nails and teeth, at least a good chunk of them do. They also had to be careful in keeping hold of the explosives. It was about as practical as the Daryl and Carol ambulance flip or Glenn surviving the dumpster scene. These are things that would not happen, and you have to make peace with that. If somebody tries to argue about it though, I will be forced to put them in their place with logic and reason.
Rant time. Let me tell you something brother, the first thing I thought of was wrestling during this scene. Of course it was, but to be more specific, Hulk Hogan. You see, in the 80’s and a good chunk of the 90’s, the Hulkster would be put up against the biggest, baddest dudes, all hell bent on destroying Hulkamania. Every once in awhile, Hogan would get put on teh shelf, like Earthquake did in 1990, but it was always to give Hogan a break for filming or whatever other nonsense he had going on. Then, he would come back, and he would stand victorious against all evil. One of the biggest traits of the Hulkster was wrestling fans call “no selling”. You remember, Hogan would take clubbing blows to the back, punches to the face and he may shake the ropes, his eyes would get huge, he may even wag his finger telling you “not today brother” and then he would hit a few punches, maybe a clothesline, a bodyslam, the big boot, and finish it off with a leg drop for the 1, 2, 3. Rick Grimes is now officially no selling any danger when it comes to stuff like that, and it does weaken this show slightly for me. Yes, it’s fiction and anything can happen, but fiction is at it’s best when there are rules to that world and story and people have to follow those rules in order to create drama. Consider how Superman started off with a few big moves, and that was it. Nowadays, he has so many more things added to over come the obstacles, the same with Batman, and it kinda takes you out of believing that they are remotely in trouble. They need to bring back the danger element. A major character needs to get bit to illustrate that while the living are more dangerous, do not forget about Dre, I mean the walkers. Otherwise, what’s the point in having walkers anymore? Either tell us that scratches will no longer kill you, which would make sense considering that everybody is infected already, or give a walker a kill on one of the experts. Don’t give us Glenn by the dumpster again. I’m sick of that shit.
Are they foreshadowing something bad happening to Aaron?
Bob: Nope, just a little LGBTQSIA etc. drama. (Kent: What? You dislike long abbreviations that keep getting bigger and bigger? Me too! I just say LMNOP and that’s what they get, no more, no less. Although, I am still a big fan of the UMSHCG, better known as the Ultra Mega Super Hyper Cool Guys.
Eric: Just forcing relationship drama. (Kent: You guys are killing it right now.)
Kent: Aaron is actually a really good character, and it feels like a reverse foreshadow. Eric offers very little to the group or the show. He is expendable. Now we can all be worried about Aaron getting got, but I think the more likely scenario is Eric dying. Also, it’s as the gents said, just for drama to keep women entertained and involved so they can go watch True Housewives of East Bumfuck after.
Give me your theories, your guesses, whatever you want to call it, in regards to the ending. Who are these people? How is Gabriel involved, if he is?
Bob: I don’t think Gabriel is involved and is probably being held. I still don’t know who these people are, no idea!
Eric: Could they be the all women’s group that we saw earlier? (Kent: It’s possible that is Oceanside, but there are some dudes, or some really fugly amazons there. It is possible that they have recruited a few dudes since we last saw them, which would be approximately a week I am guessing, 2 weeks at most given what we have seen on TV.)
Kent: Rick smiled. Now I know that can be interpreted in a couple of ways. I’m going to say that this group has Heath. Father Gabriel is on next week’s Talking Dead, so his story should be explained. There’s a surprise guest next week as well, and that used to indicate a death. They haven’t gone that route in awhile, so it makes sense for it to be Heath. With that being said, it will probably be some annoying actress that brings the show down. I am going to say that this group is a minor threat, maybe Wolves level. This should all tie in with whoever spied on Alexandria at the end of episode 8. Rest assured, I will be wrong. Rick is smiling because he sees an armed group and that is what Rick needs.
Also, I feel so bad for any guys in that group. Just imagine being surrounded by all that estrogen, and they probably initially think “My my, look at all the poon at my disposal” and the 30 minutes later, they aren’t getting any, and are getting nagged all day. I’d rather get eaten by a walker. More peaceful.
What was your favorite scene or line from this episode?
Bob: Rick’s smile at the end.
Eric: “ We fucked the same dead guy, doesn’t make us friends”
Kent: There’s a lot to like in this episode. I loved Carl’s pissed off look, Gregory’s “Rhetorical”, Ezekiel reading the “Free at last” speech, Rick’s smile at the end, and probably a few that I am missing. But damn, I have to go with “What the hell you telling me for? We both had sex with the same dead guy. Doesn’t make us friends.” That was awesome, and it kinda redeemed her character a bit, in my eyes.
Who is the biggest ticking time bomb on the show at the moment?
Bob: Richard looks to becoming unhinged. If he doesn’t get to murder some saviors soon, look out!
Eric: I agree with Bob. Richard seems out for blood concerning the saviors
Kent: There are so many people that are like one nudge away from snapping. You can see it in so many of their eyes, the actors are doing a great job in showing the pressure and tension that they face, well except Tara because her character is just the worst. At least Jesus is chill, but delivers it in a different manner. Richard and Rosita top my picks. Rosita still has the mind to disarm the explosives, Richard is my choice.
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.
Hey hey everybody. We finally had a “traditional” Walking Dead style episode with multiple stories being interwoven, and keeping things interesting. Most of the feedback on this episode has been positive and just what everybody has been yearning for after a season that was, at times, tough to watch for various reasons. The gang is back together, by and large, and are on their way to meet Ezekiel and see Carol and Morgan. Eugene is now property of the Saviors, and a few people had to die. All in all, it was a treat. Thank you to my contributors: Cece, Teddy, Bob, Eric, Briana, and Bits. They have been doing a tremendous job all season, and I hope to coerce them to come back in February. Please, if you like these blogs, just share them on one form of social media, because that’s how things like this build a following, and then maybe more people want to join in. Finally, at the end of this blog, you will see some fun pictures of a gift that I received this past Saturday at LingFest 2016. You’ll have a good laugh.
As always, any comments in bold type are my comments. Some are nice, and thought provoking, and others are me just being a jerk.
Who’s death had the most impact, short term or long term: Spencer, Olivia, Fat Joey, or Isabelle (the red headed lady with Michonne)?
Cece: I think Olivia was the most useful character who died this episode.
Teddy: Fat Joey? I mean he did report to Negan and did bring him Lucille.
Bob: Short term – Isabelle – I think this shows us the power of fear in Negan’s people and also their “on-the-fence” loyalty. It also shows Michonne’s understanding of these people and how she will act in the future. It could be considered a mercy killing… Long term – Olivia – I didn’t want to pick Spencer because Rick looked a little angry about Spencer being a coward. Olivia was of “the group” and she was one that needed protection as opposed to offer it. I think in Rick’s mind, this was killing the helpless… It’s long term because well, Rick is sorta the show here. The Big Show? Nah. (I really liked the fear and on the fence mentality comments. I was thinking along those terms but wasn’t able to articulate it as well. And way to mention Jeremy Baird, I mean The Big Show!)
Eric: i think Spencer as I was just getting to like him. He was an original member of Alexandria. It was out of the blue. Also, it was kinda shitty how he turned on Rick, but i guess he did have reason for blaming Rick. (I feel that you and I are among the few people who started to dig Spencer. I still feel that he had a purpose, and he was his own worst enemy. There’s a lesson in there somewhere.)
Briana: I’m going to go with Fat Joey on this one. His death is going to piss Negan off along with the fact that Daryl is gone and obviously was the one to kill him. I’m not sure what it will lead to but it will definitely be the most impactful death. (I think Dwight, Sherry, or Dr Carson may have to deal with that aftermath.)
Bits: Well here’s my long term thought. If Fat Joey had guarded the gate like he was supposed to and hadn’t left his post then maybe Daryl wouldn’t have gotten out. And with Daryl on the loose trouble is sure to follow… (Why didn’t Joey shoot Daryl? Like, a non-lethal shot preferably, but that would have made so much more sense to me.)
Kent: On the surface, when I first asked this, I figured that I would jokingly be the only person to say Fat Joey. Well damn, he was a popular choice. All 4 deaths hold their importance. Olivia had a system of keeping track of supplies, which may not be difficult, but it was a key responsibility that she was good at. Spencer made a lot of sense to me because he was one of the better people at getting supplies to buy Alexandria time, and if we only focus on what they provide, Spencer was actually a huge loss. He was a bridge to original members of Alexandria for Rick, but it never worked out well. So the answer is actually Fat Joey, but for similar reasons as Isabelle. Bob talked about the power of fear and being on the fence with loyalty. It’s a topic that I wanted to discuss, but couldn’t find a way to properly ask a question. I find this dynamic fascinating. Isabelle would rather die than to face the outcome of her failure or her leading Michonne to the group, it was her preferred way out. Then you have a guy like Dwight who we know is struggling with how things are run, but is in so deep that it’s beneficial for him to keep it up rather than set himself free. Then there’s Fat Joey who probably figured that once Daryl left, he could try to make it seem like he was going on a mission, and instead just bail. Instead, Negan will find one of his trusted men dead and a guy who he wanted on his side to have gone AWOL. Security will be tighter, and I believe that there will be hell to pay. Right now, Negan is happy that there is still fight in the Alexandrians as he feels that Rick is at least playing ball. The aftermath is just going to be so deep due to Fat Joey’s death.
What moment(s) during this episode defined this episode for you? Let’s face it, this is an episode with a ton of “moments”.
Cece: Probably Spencer getting gutted.
Teddy: Probably the stupid everyone head nod at the end, that and the gutting of Spencer (fyi just stabbing someone with a bowie knife wouldn’t gut him) (Making logical points in a show about zombies is always a catch 22. As a horror fan, it comes into play so often.)
Bob: The spaghetti dinner. Negan was feigning being fair and just and happy but he always purposefully shows his malice and sanguine nature at just the right time to make you uncomfortable. Negan shaving was a moment for me as well, as things were about to change and they did. Now Rick will try to move against Negan. Another moment was when Negan turned Spencer into a zombie. I found this satisfying. Negan again feigning his support of Rick – but knowing Spencer could not lead, eliminates him. (Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe this is the first time that sanguine has been used in this blog. Sweet! The big question now is whether Rick shaves as well to counteract Negan.)
Eric: When Daryl killed Fat Joey. i felt that was very satisfying for Daryl. it showed the audience that Negan wasn’t able to fully break Daryl. (Yeah, this was the first time this whole season where Daryl had some modicum of control, and he unleashed hell.)
Briana: If I have to go with just one, I’ll say Rick and Michonne’s talk at the end. Having Rick admit to her and himself that they have to do something. Knowing that they’re finally heading in the right direction to band together with the other groups to fight back and take back their lives. (I had a conversation with a buddy of mine last night about this scene. Him and I both disliked the scene, for varying reasons. Rick is such a strong willed dude, I wanted him to have his revelation not because of his special lady friend, but more because he’s the biggest bad ass in town. The cool thing about it is that they filmed it with the jail cell that Morgan made. Without providing spoilers, I can only suggest that the room will come into play again someday down the line, and Carl wil be involved.)
Bits: I HEART this episode. I needed the gang back together and found my self clapping at many times. I clapped when Michonne shot Isabelle, I clapped when we see Daryl in the hallway, I clapped when Spencer was stabbed and I cheered, clapped and cried like a baby when the gang got back together… (Even as I’m watching the episode, I actually pictured your reactions. This description is pretty spot on. It was a really good episode.)
Kent: For me, it was that look that Rick gave Carl when Negan told Rick about Carl’s visit to Sanctuary. That look was amazing, and that was my favorite part of the whole episode. I also loved Gregory wanting to eat the apple still after Maggie asked about it. That’s what makes Gregory so great, but the other guy’s response was pretty great too. As I was getting pics, I kept stumbling upon more and more moments that were great. Daryl with the peanut butter is an obvious callback to season 4 episode 13 when Beth and Daryl find the stash of peanut butter, jelly, pig’s feet, and diet soda. Daryl ate the jelly in the exact way as he did the peanut butter. Hell, I even liked the looks between Sasha and Rosita. This episode was like the last 15 minutes of Shawshank Redemption for a lot of fans, I feel.
Who’s the person with the boots who is looking at Father Gabriel at the end of the episode, and what do you think their prerogative is?
Cece: If you mean the person wearing the boots when Rick and Aaron were getting supplies, I honestly have no idea. Maybe someone from The Kingdom? And no idea. (Reading stuff online has led me to believe that is unlikely only because most of the people in gear have the same uniform. I feel that the decorative tape may be a hint, but let’s face it, this is actually a smart cliffhanger for once.)
Teddy: You mean the one looking at Aaron and Rick with the houseboat? I’m sure it’s probably the next big baddie or a tie into the next season since Negan doesn’t look like he will be there past this season as big baddie (Negan will still be rocking next season, no doubt about that. There’s zero incentive for them to expedite the W’s when they can milk this story for at least another 16-24 episodes. 8 episodes wouldn’t do it justice, I don’t think. Plus, you know how they like to dick around and give us 20 different people’s perspective of the same damn thing just to give us more episodes.)
Bob: I get the feeling Alexandria has been watched by a number of groups..including this individual/group. I hope they also hate Negan, but all groups look out for themselves and their loyalty remains to themselves. Alexandria is the only group that would appear altruistic to me, maybe the Kingdom… But for me, a non comic book reader, I just am not sure what this means… (That’s something to consider. At this point, we know that Hilltop, Alexandria, Kingdom, and the Saviors have all scouted out various locations. It’s borderline insulting that Negan’s group didn’t deal with Alexandria much earlier on if you consider everything that we know. The only group that we don’t know about, as far as scouting, is Oceanside.)
Eric: i think its one of the hench men from Negan’s crew. (Check out the pic below and you may feel more confident in your answer.)
Briana: So my theory on this is obviously he’s the guy who set up the house boat and all that, but I believe he is our first glance at a Whisperer. Right now, he’s probably just scoping the place out for whatever he’s planning. The note made it clear taking his things would lead to something bad but I couldn’t tell you what that’s going to be. Maybe a bomb hidden somewhere in the stuff or just he and his group attacking. (I’m glad that you brought up the Whisperers, in a way. This is somewhat of a problem. A lot of fans of the TV show have heard something about the Whisperers. A lot of fans know that in the timeline, they are the next big bad group. Unfortunately, with that info, stuff gets misconstrued. It’s one of those things that people who don’t read the comics are just better off not knowing about, sorta like not knowing what to expect in Game of Thrones all of these years. The problem with knowing that The Whisperers exist is also knowing how they are introduced in the comic. Now they may be introduced differently on screen, as Dwight was, for instance. I say that because the way that they are introduced in the comic is perfect. In the same way that Glenn having his eye pop out of his skull was important and iconic, I feel that the introduction of the Whisperers should stay close to the comic’s introduction. Whether they will or not, who knows? The idea of them going out and spying seems odd to me, and in my mind doesn’t fit the group. Still, many people are speculating about it, and I guess there are times when I miss not having the internet to spoil things.)
Bits: OMG, i have no idea. I’ve been trying to think of who it could be and because I have yet to read the comics I don’t know of any other characters. Is it Carol spying on the group? (Carol has been speculated upon, but seems unlikely, based on her portrayal. She seems to want to be an independent homebody and leave that mess behind. Of course, it could be her because Carol is perhaps the most capable character on the show. It would make sense though if she wanted to talk to Rick about what Richard was talking about. That could be fun.)
Kent: I don’t think that it’s a member of the Whisperers based on how they are first represented in the comic. Plus that would be a disservice to their group and lack logic in my mind. I don’t think it is anybody who is attached to The Hilltop or The Kingdom, but it could be. I don’t see any rhyme or reason for it to be a Savior because they can just come and go as they please. No real sense in spying. Yes, it could be the person who did whatever to the boat. My guess is that it is somebody with Oceanside. It would make sense. They know that another territory exists, and could have had multiple people follow Tara. We have no real clue of the geography of their location compared to where Rick and Aaron were. They should be concerned with Tara bringing her group back for weapons. Eh screw it, it’s a member of the W’s, the Wolves that is. Remember, they didn’t all get killed and may have recovered. The town would be easy pickings without Spencer. They better not kill Kent!!!
Update: There is no definitive proof yet, but a big theory is that it is Dwight. Readers of the comics can understand why. When Daryl was in Dwight’s room there was a pair of binocular and a black hoodie. The only problem that I have with this theory is that the person supposedly has a connection with the boat, and I don’t quite get the association of Dwight to the boat. But here’s a picture, note that by Daryl’s leg is the black hoodie and on the right side is a pair of binoculars. Also, I don’t think the person is black based on what we have seen, but Cyndi was on the lighter side of the spectrum, Heath isn’t.
What will the ramifications be for Daryl escaping?
Cece: I think Negan will probably kill some of his people in annoyance. (I’m torn on this. That’s what the Governor would have done. It feels like they are trying to make Negan as different as The Governor as possible. Still, we know he’s going to be pissed. I’m really just as curious about this as I am the boots person.)
Teddy: Well when Negan gets back he will be pissed and probably think it was Rick that went in to get him. so it’s gonna further the plot that is gonna head towards the fast coming colony war lol. (I hadn’t considered this theory. I like it. Negan doesn’t know where Rick went aside from the fact that he came back with supplies. I really like this idea.)
Bob: Well, someone has to die or one or two Alexandrians will have to be held until Daryl is returned. (It better not be Kent!)
Eric: i don’t know. Negan will try to kill Daryl, but he will prob kill one of his own for letting Daryl escape. (That’s another thing. At what point does Negan go from “this person has potential” to “Fuck them, kill em!”? Obviously Carl has gotten some leeway and even Daryl did to a degree. Olivia slapping him turned him on 50% more. Where is the line?)
Briana: They’re definitely going to go to Alexandria to look for him but I also think they might be smart enough to remember that they have a thing with the Hilltop. So they may look there next if they don’t find him at Alexandria, then shit will hit the fan, so to speak. Lol! The good thing about that is that the group has already taken the first step to fighting back before the Saviors have realized Daryl is gone so our guys may be prepared by the time they come after him. (That brings up another elephant in the room, from a logical standpoint. OK, Daryl is free, yay. Rick wants the groups to fight back. Yay. We still need to remember that The Saviors most likely outnumber the other 3 colonies 2 or 3 to 1. The Saviors are mainly fighters who are armed. Rick’s band of merrymen aren’t armed very well. Even if they were, say they made a deal with Oceanside, those odds are stacked. Wasn’t Daryl breaking out the worst thing for the “good guys”? Negan is going to be pissed, want some answers, and go looking for Daryl. Even if the places cooperate, Kingdom makes the most sense as The Saviors don’t come in, they meet at a separate location, these guys are probably going to come looking. Daryl being free gives the groups significantly less time to prepare for something that should require weeks of preparation. Yeah, I’m rambling today.)
Bits: Death, Iron or a serious ass beating by Negan. Most likely to Dwight. (Do you think that the iron will be used again? I’m not opposed to it. I’d like to see it happen to Eugene oddly enough, just don’t mess the hair up.)
Kent: Dwight will face Negan’s wrath. It seems like Daryl was Dwight’s pet project in some regards, and we know that you don’t want to let Negan down. Will it be something physical, or maybe a simple demotion? I don’t know. I think this makes the most sense to keep evolving Dwight’s character. Eugene may also get a taste of the wrath.
How will the news of the deaths of Abe, Glenn, Olivia, and Spencer affect Carol?
Cece: I think she will cry, for the first time in a long time.
Teddy: Maybe what she needs to make her fight…..or it will make her run away yet again (why make her so badass just to waste her like Morgan?) (I would never say that Carol has been wasted. She is perhaps the greatest female character that I have ever seen on TV. This is just giving her another layer. A group of just badasses leads to a dull show, or wrestling. Morgan, on the other hand, he at least looked cool fighting, despite only having the one recent kill. If he was just a bad ass, he’d be dead because him and Michonne would basically be the same character.)
Bob: Some shock, I think she will hold back and attempt to stay away but the calling to murder will not be denied.
Eric: i think at this point she is so far disconnected from the group that she will be sad but will find away to blame someone else for them. she has repeatedly said she just wants to be left alone. On the flip side it might be the catalyst to bring the old Carol back. (I think that we will see the old Carol back by season’s end. If not, I’m ok with it because whatever it is that she does still continues to maintain my interest, oddly enough.)
Briana: It will have to be the news that finally knocks their crazy asses back to reality. It’s the final piece of the puzzle they need to join what’s his name (you know, RV guy I can’t believe I can’t remember his name now) in convincing Ezekiel to join the fight. (I was just going to add the name Richard, but if you keep reading Bri’s responses, she eventually gets the name, so the journey is more entertaining than just getting it right initially. I love it.)
Bits: I wish we saw more of Carol this half Season. I’m not sure what she will think because I honestly don’t know where her head is at. Ideally i’d like Carol to go rogue like a few seasons ago and kill everyone who stood between her and Rick. (So that’s the thing. When is the right time, if any, for Carol to revert or evolve into more of a fighter? Obviously, if you look at the responses, people seem very eager to see her old tendencies return. Should the writers give it to us, or continue to build up our eagerness? This feels like a wrestling story where you know a person is on the verge of turning from a bad guy to a good guy, or vice versa, and the question is always, how long do they wait? Timing is everything.)
Kent: I think that may cause Carol to want more distance and yet maybe more emotionally linked with Ezekiel. It won’t be until the Kingdom’s safety is at risk, and then I think Carol will do what Carol best. Think about the song Still DRE by Dr Dre. Yes, I am comparing Carol to Dre. The last line is the most important because when I see the shit about to hit the fan there, I think that it’s bound to happen.
“Y’all are gonna keep fucking around with me and turn me back to the old me”
What will it take to convince King Ezekiel to go to war against Negan and The Saviors?
Cece: I think if Carol actually talked to him, he may consider it. (Yeah, I think she has a hold on him.)
Teddy: Probably the death of that one guy who tried to get Carol and Morgan to convince Ezekiel to fight Negan. (Once again, somebody forgot Richard’s name. I feel that the writer’s did a poor job of getting his name out there because there are quite a few people who barely know the name, or don’t know it at all. I really don’t know how often they said his name, but I have had to look it up a few times. TWD, do better with getting his name out there!)
Bob: Carol’s urging.
Eric: He would have to know that the Saviors can be wiped out entirely. And with his failure before with the Hilltop, it’s going to take some convincing.
Briana: it will take Morgan and Carol to convince him. Having these strangers come in and tell their story won’t be enough for him. From his perspective, these guys are dicks but they haven’t seen the side of them the other two groups have seen. Hearing it and seeing it aren’t the same thing. Either Carol and Morgan will convince him or the Saviors will be on such a rampage over Daryl, they’ll finally snap and do something to the Kingdom and he won’t have a choice. (I think the Saviors are going to attack The Kingdom after Rick’s group leaves, probably without Daryl. Daryl and Carol can live together, make Ezekiel jealous.)
Bits: I think that King Ezekiel will fight. I don’t think it’ll take much convincing but someone will have to kill his tiger…sorry PETA. (Damn, you went super dark really fast. Shiva will be fine…..I hope.)
Kent: At first I considered something like the Saviors messing with Carol or Richard or Jerry, but the one person who sticks out is Ben. Remember, he’s the boy who Morgan is helping train. So if the Saviors invade and cause a raucous, and Ben is in trouble and Morgan saves him or sacrifices himself to save Ben, that will be the final straw for Ezekiel. Please don’t romanticize it because that stuff is beyond played out.
Should Rosita have been allowed to accompany Rick and the group to the Hilltop?
Cece: Hell no. She keeps fucking up. I don’t like the dumb bitch. (Sorry for being so vulgar) (In this blog….vulgarity? This has to be the first time ever!)
Teddy: I mean she done goofed this episode but I don’t think she would be excluded since she is still part of their group
Bob: Yes, it isn’t Rosita’s fault Eugene was taken or Olivia’s death. (Maybe not her fault, but those are consequences of her actions. She knew better at the very least.)
Eric: Yes she has been with the group long enough.
Briana: What she did was completely irrational and stupid but which of them hasn’t done something irrational and stupid before? The guy she’s had a thing with just had his guts spilled all over the street and she had a gun in her pocket and she’s a damn good shot so she took it. So yes I think she’s sill part of the group and they still need her for what is to come. (I’d really love your insight on Spencer and Rosita’s tryst. )
Bits: I guess so. She was there on the night that we won’t talk about with Lucille so she has much of a passion to fight as anyone after losing Abraham.
Kent: I say no. Yes, she has passion, but she is careless and caused far too much unnecessary turmoil. I feel that Rick should have left her back at Alexandria to keep watch and brought a real soldier like Gabriel. I can’t believe that I am typing this. It’s true. I really wish they had cut her face up more. It would have been awesome, and potentially sexy. Yeah, I said it.
Will Eugene cooperate and help Negan make ammunition?
Cece: Eugene is a very submissive person. Yes he will cooperate.
Teddy: Eugene will try to survive and doesn’t do well under pressure…..so yes he will
Bob: Damn right he will. Maybe he will screw up making some rounds. (I like the idea of a potential sabotage.)
Eric: That is hard to say. He did witness Negan kill his best friend in a most gruesome way. Hopefully, he doesn’t puss out and help Negan out. Maybe Negan kills Eugene if he doesn’t help him. Maybe he puts him in the walker fight ring. (Eugene would kick ass in the walker fight ring!)
Briana: Yes. Eugene is a people pleaser, that’s how he stays alive. He will do what they ask to bide his time while the group comes up with their plan.
Bits: Yes, Eugene will.
Kent: I’m going to say that he bides his time, but he will not be intentionally helpful. As I have been saying for months now, Eugene is a bad ass. Hopefully we start seeing the evolution of Eugene into the second most important person in this show.
Who earned your respect the most from this episode?
Cece: Aaron, Michonne and Father Gabriel. (I really like 2 of those choices. )
Teddy: Honestly, Daryl and Jesus were the only ones this episode to have super meaning. So those two everyone else was just meh
Bob: Eugene – he manned up, but this is in part to Rosita’s verbal accosting from the previous episode. (So what you are telling me is that TWD built up a character through numerous episodes. What a neat idea. Sometimes this show doesn’t get enough props for the subtle things.)
Eric: I don’t have an answer for this question. I don’t think anyone really stood out.
Briana: Honestly, probably Olivia. She had an opportunity to go hide, get herself out of the situation and she chose to stay and do her part. It got her killed but she couldn’t have known that. She stayed strong in the face of her biggest fears and that takes a lot of strength. (You’re right. Olivia does deserve some acknowledgement. Good response.)
Bits: Eugene. He stepped up and owned it to save lives.
Kent: Aaron really stepped up his game this episode. I really loved him during this episode and he earned my utmost respect. I’m relatively surprised that only Cece brought him up. Even my buddy who has been down on Aaron for a long time said that he liked Aaron this week. Eugene is also a great choice, but I am definitely bias towards him. Finally, I will say Negan. I know, I know, BUT he handled the situation in a really smart way. The Governor would have lost his shit here. Negan on the other hand, he played this smart for the long haul. He showed an odd bit of loyalty to Rick, even if it is for his best interests, he took out Rick’s biggest enemy in Alexandria, and he is trying to manufacture ammo. Way better than just going on a killing spree.
Bonus Deuce Cubed – Because Season Finales deserve more analysis (Comments are a little more scant on some of these questions)
Looking forward to next season, what 2 people are you looking forward to seeing on screen together, whether it be a reunion or a first time meeting?
Cece: Morgan & Rick.
Teddy: I would like to see who knocks up Rosita. Umm otherwise maybe Morgan and Rick get more time to work together? (Honestly, I’d be super cool if there are no more pregnancies on the show. But if it’s Eugene, I’m all for it!)
Bob: Of course Rick and Ezekiel. But I think Carol and Rick would be more productive.
Eric: Daryl and Carol. they became good friends and would like to see them reunite. (Yeah, they are my 3rd favorite duo behind Abe & Eugene and Daryl & Merle.)
Briana: Maggie and Negan! I can’t wait to see his reaction when he finds out she’s still alive. Also, I’m excited to see Rick and the group meet Ezekiel! He’s just such a fun character, it’ll be nice to have more of him with our own people. (I hadn’t even considered the Maggie and Negan one, but that will be solid. Good call.)
Bits: I want to see Ezekiel and Jesus. I’m interested in seeing their relationship.
Kent: My guilty pleasure answer is Carol and Daryl. I love those 2 together. Another one that hopefully happens is Gregory and Negan on screen together as Gregory is just so ridiculous. Morgan and Rick will always be a favorite for old time’s sake. If we ever can have Eugene and Jerry, that beats everything. Lots of love here from people for Ezekiel. That should tell the writers that they have crafted a really great character so far.
Which member of Alexandria, Hilltop, or The Kingdom will die next?
Cece: Enid, Morgan or Sasha. (I’d prefer not Morgan)
Teddy: Probably Ezek’s right-hand man (Jerry). I feel like that would force the conflict in which Ezek will fight back.
Bob: Alexandria: Aaron’s boyfriend?? Is this an option? (Eric, and of course, as he really hasn’t had his character developed one bit.)
The Kingdom: Ezekiel’s protege, that young boy. (Ben)
Eric: Its hard to say. with Negan, no one is safe
Briana: Man! I hate when you ask this! I hardly ever get them right lol! Probably The president of Hilltop (Gregory) or the guy I mentioned earlier from The Kingdom who was trying to enlist Morgan and Carol. (Richard! Thank you for saying his name in the next question! Haha!) (You hate these questions…..but you’ll be back.)
Bits: Gregory needs to go. (Haters gon’ hate.)
Kent: I don’t think that the next death will be a huge one, but that is boring. I cannot figure out Morgan or Carol as their stories vary so greatly from the comic. Lennie and Melissa are so great at what they do, I don’t want to say either. I think Carol is safe. I think Sasha or Morgan are the 2 most likely out of the big names, but please make it Tara. Richard seems like a given, so when it is too obvious, I avoid it like the plague. Update, Sasha is going to be the star of a new Star Trek series. This info came out after everybody answered, but it seems likely that she will get got. While I do believe that Gregory may fall at some point, are you really looking forward to that? Really? The dude is comedic. Yeah, he is a pompous ass, but he’s not an evil bad guy. He’s just doing what he knows to do to survive. Probably a lot of us think that we could be an adequate leader of a group, but the reality is, most of us would probably suck at it and do whatever to save our own asses, as is human nature.
Was Richard correct in saying that there would be blood on Carol and Morgan’s hands? Also, any thoughts on his little trailer?
Cece: I mean, he’s not exactly wrong. And it seems a bit odd. He kind of strikes me as fishy anyway.
Teddy: If Carol continues to be wasted as a character I could see her getting herself and possibly someone else killed. Morgan, however, will kill if needed so I think if push came to shove that he will fight
Bob: Yes, in a communal way. Not absolutely though. People are responsible for their actions, not once or twice removed. The little trailer is Richard’s own private self torture sanctuary. (If I had eyebrows, they would have been raised at the self torture sanctuary. I really thought about that when I rewatched it. Interesting take.)
Briana: Absolutely! The thing about Carol and Morgan’s no killing policy is that it always leads to someone they care about dying. Morgan already had all the blood the Wolves spilled on his hands by leaving that guy alive in the woods forever ago. If they don’t snap out of it, they will be responsible for other deaths simply by omission. (I really liked this bit of analysis.)
Bits: I think Richard wasn’t wrong but Carol and Morgan do need to fight for the greater good. His trailer shows weakness. He is still hanging on to the past. (I didn’t see it as weakness, like I never even considered it. Interesting perspective.)
Kent: I don’t think that it is necessarily fair, as they weren’t members of The Kingdom, so it’s not really their fight, but it kind of is. I can see both side of the argument but am leaning towards yes, blood will be on their proverbial hands. As for the trailer, I admit to liking some other theories better, but it’s not fair for me to piggy back. I always write the answer that I had when I came up with the question. In this case, I feel that these are fallback supplies in case he needs to bargain with Negan, or if The Kingdom comes up short. Of course, I am probably wrong.
Tell me what you think will happen with Heath?
Cece: I hope he’s still out there somewhere. I think he may stumble on Hilltop. (I certainly wouldn’t mind that.)
Teddy: Fuck if I know nor do I really care. outside of him being the actor who played Dre in Straight Out of Compton, he hasn’t really wowed me with Heath. I feel like Heath is another B character to die like Spencer (at least he has a plot point moving forward). (Bonus points for mentioning Dre!)
Bob: I am sorry, but I really want to say that he will end up with a willing harem in the female colony. I have nothing else to say. (Tremendous. Man, these answers are better than I anticipated from this question.)
Briana: He got to his car and took off but he got lost along the way. Maybe he even came across the sea people and they killed him. (From Bob’s harem to the exact opposite. Fantastic.)
Bits: Heath took off. He’s gone. I’m not too concerned because I can do without him. (But his hair game was great. His character is better in the comic, which gives me hope that they develop him. If he goes missing, I don’t think many people will care aside from the occasional “where’s Heath?”)
Kent: I don’t foresee his character sticking with his comic counterpart. I think that it would actually be fascinating to do something unique with him. What is he good at? He is good at gathering. I really don’t know how sold he is on following Rick Grimes, so what if he joins the Saviors, feeling this it was the safer play for him? We have discussed is somebody should do something like that, so why not Heath? It keeps his character under the radar for a bit. Hell, he could help out Eugene later on.
Do you feel that Arat specifically targeted Olivia or was it more of a random person must die?
Cece: I think it was super random, because, realistically it should have been Rosita. (Re-watch it and tell me if you still feel that way. I watched it 3 times, and my perspective changed.)
Teddy: She targeted her because of the gun fuck up. (That is a good theory.)
Bob: Arat is an angry woman. She took out the sniveling and weak woman.
Eric: i really feel that is was a random person to die. She didnt really have a solid role.
Briana: Nah! She did it on purpose. She didn’t like Negan’s weird fascination with her. Either that or she meant to kill Carl and she’s just a terrible shot! Lol! (I think she would have been punished had she shot Carl. I think jealousy was involved, but the gun mess up also is a valid reason.)
Kent: So 3 people say random, 3 people say that it was intentional. This is why I love doing this blog! The first 2 times that I watched this, I thought random. I then noticed that Arat could plainly see everybody in plain sight, yet she intentionally chose to spin and there were only 3 people there: Olivia, Carl, and Judith. I think she knows that Negan would have been superfly pissed at her if she shot either of Rick’s kids, so it was definitely intentional. The reason why can be speculated upon, no doubt, plus, that girl has a hell of a good shot.
What would Negan have preferred: Him taking a non-lethal gunshot that grazed him or Lucille getting shot?
Cece: Him taking the gunshot. Because he’s unnaturally obsessed with Lucille.
Teddy: Negan loves his women I think he would take the grazing shot over Lucille being shot.
Bob: Oh Lucille for sure. I think he is quite a wimp, he was acting out all kinds of fear when Lucille was shot. But luckily he was able to pretend that he was emotional about Lucille. Not to diminish Lucille, because I am sure he was offended.
Eric: He really loves that bat. i think that if her shot connected, it would have been fatal. i don’t feel she was aiming just to graze him.
Briana: His crazy ass probably would have preferred getting hit himself! Except for the fact that his reflexes are probably why Lucille ended up in front of the bullet in the first place. But consciously, he’d have taken the bullet for her if it wouldn’t have killed him.
Bits: Honestly Negan is deranged. He would like to be shot more then Lucille to have marks on her.
Kent: The weird thing is that if I base it strictly on the TV show, I think that he would prefer to have Lucille shot. He hasn’t gone on and on about her to the degree that he has in the comic. After some recent events, it’s obvious that he would take the gun shot. But if I am strictly answering from what we know of him via the TV show, I think he’d prefer Lucille to take the hit so he can remain looking powerful and in control.
Which character do you most closely identify with? Just saying, not everybody is a Daryl or a Rick, so be honest with yourself.
Cece: Probably Olivia or Eugene. Let’s be real, I’m no badass.
Teddy: I’m like a weird combination of Carl (his badass don’t fuck with me side) and Eugene (his ability to create bullets and his knowledge)
Bob: I think King Ezekiel with regards to taking a beating so to speak and making deals to protect his people. I do this daily at work, just not with Negan’s people.
Eric: i really like Abraham. i know hes dead but i liked him as a character. i would have liked to see him develop more as a character.
Briana: I relate most with Maggie. My family is my life as it is with her. Every decision she makes, everything she does is for them. She loves deeply but is strong because of that love.
Bits: This is a crazy question and i’d like to revisit it at a later date….. (Still waiting……)
Kent: My answer is T Dog. He’s large, bald, and would have probably done something similar when he saved Carol. Also, I would like to say that there’s a tiny bit of Herschel in me, as I’m set in my ways and would love a shotgun with unlimited ammo.
What would be your weapon of choice in the apocalypse? Once again, be honest and realistic.
Cece: I honestly would probably yield a baseball bat. I like how they feel in my hands.
Teddy: Probably something that wouldn’t degrade over time (swords and knives dull, bats splinter and break, bullets are finite). I guess something like Lucille that is reinforced
Bob: 10″ barreled AR-15. Good for close quarter, can use as a blunt instrument and superb accuracy for tight or open shots.
Eric: My first choice would have to be the AR-15. I own one and they are a great medium range weapon. the ammo is easy to find as a lot of other weapons use the same ammo. my second choice would be a sword. either samurai or long sword.
Briana: I’m going to go with an AR 15 simply because I own one and know I could use it. Mine has a super bright flashlight and a hologram red dot that doesn’t show up on the target, only through the scope and the kickback is very minimal compared to other guns I’ve used. (The Arkansan in me is showing a little haha)
Bits: My weapon of choice for the apocalypse would be a pick ax with a long handle. I could beat someone off and stab the heads if i needed too. However that would be the weapon of choice after i’ve lived in the apocalypse for some time. If i was experiencing the immediate outbreak of the apocalypse itd be some type of gun. To “clear” as many places as possible quickly and from a distance.
Kent, I have zero aim, I am uncoordinated as hell, so the thing that makes the most sense is a machete, like my hero, Jason Voorhees. A hatchet would also be sufficient and then double barrel shotty would be fantastic. I’d also like to find a super soaker with a bayonette and fill it up with zombie blood. That would be my weapon of spite if I had to take on humans. Hurt them and then infect them. Then maybe deliver a line like Ving Rhames telling them that the stinging feeling is pride F’N with them.
Now, as promised, the pictures. Saturday (the 10th) was my birthday, and Bitty’s husband, Brian, got me a Funko Pop Carl figure, well it used to be a Carl, but now it’s just an Arl because, ya know, Carl can’t C. There’s quite a lot of fun detail to the box and the figure, and I felt like this would be the best way to end this particular blog. Happy holidays/Merry Christmas to all of you, and we will be returning in February! Yeah, the bottom has a 9 Deuce, so I included it.
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.
Welcome ladies and gents to the only Walking Dead themed blog utilizing a 9 Deuce gimmick. Finally, we really got to delve into Carl and Negan’s relationship, and it was fantastic. We are all a little more upbeat after last week’s caTARAstrophe. I am joined by the esteemed panel made up of Raylene, Cece, Bob, Briana, Bits, and Kristi. I am your host, Kent, and if you see anything written in bold, rest assured it is me making some comment. Let’s get this party started!
On a side note, a new blog will be debuting this Saturday, so please keep your eyes out for it.
What do you expect Rick and Aaron to find, providing that they make it to Leslie’s place?
Raylene: They will find guns, ammo, more food, and an underground bomb shelter. (The bomb shelter is a nice touch.)
Cece: A dead woman. (That’s the hope and the dream.)
Bob: Guns. And hopefully something new as it pertains to weaponry. (Now I am curious what you have in mind.)
Briana: Of course they’ll find the usual, food, some guns, ammo. Since Negan will be there waiting when they get back, unexpectedly as he is, it’ll probably be the mother load so they can watch it all be taken away… again! (But if you are correct, would Rick be smart enough to hide the guns this time around?)
Bits: First of all did I miss something? How did they know this place existed and why hadn’t they tried to work with this area before? And I mean really a boat full of holes? It would seem to me that Negan would’ve already taken everything from this person and place. (One thing that Negan doesn’t really do is have a Eugene. He doesn’t seem to keep many intellectuals, he has a lot of grunts. Eugene is smart enough to map things out and keep a running record of the ground that has been covered. Negan’s men don’t seem terribly interested in scouting, but rather getting other places to do that work.)
Kristi: I’m hopeful that they are about to find an arsenal in there. They need to start preparing for war.
Kent: Are they going to find much? It’s been built up, and they have to come back with something, right? I think that they find some weapons, hide them, and bring back some other random stuff for Negan. I also am unsure if it will be enough to satiate Negan.
Should Carl keep the bandage on or off? Give me a yes or a no, and not a whatever he feels like or maybe response.
Raylene: Once it heals up completely Carl should leave the bandage off he looks more menacing that way.
Cece: Off. It does make him look a bit badass.
Bob: Off. It is badass and will always give others a moment of reflection and fear.
Briana: I think Negan has a point with the bad ass thing! I say keep it off! It’s seriously gnarly!
Bits: No. He should keep it on but def get an eye patch! (You get a comment for being the contrarian. Eye patches kick ass, less we forget the great Governor.)
Kristi: Keep it off! I like crazy Carl 🙂
Kent: I am guessing that it is not fully healed. I’d be afraid of getting some walker particles in there. And then what? You can really cut it out. Play it safe until you are sure it is healed, and then I’d cut the hair some so it is very visible to those who affront him.
In theory, who has the best chance and or better plan to attack Negan: Michonne or Rosita?
Raylene: Michonne is a better fighter then Rosita but going into Negan’s turf she won’t be successful to get at Negan. It should be done from long range so perhaps that’s Rosita’s plan.
Cece: Definitely not Rosita. She’s too overzealous about things. She’s trying to go in guns blazing. It just won’t work. (While that is true, how stealthy can one be when the Saviors have a secure perimeter? I don’t think that there is a right or wrong answer per se, I am still unsure about stealthiness helping you unless you are Jesus.)
Bob: Rosita has a better plan because she is going to wait for an opportunity or create one. Michonne may have a better chance though since she is going all out to get to Negan. (That kinda sums up my thoughts. Both have opportunities, so it does come down to the plan.)
Briana: I think they’re both stupid! Do none of these people realize they can’t take him out one person at a time? They’re just asking to be picked off one by one! United is the only way to take him out! However, for the sake of the question, I’m gonna go with Michonne! One bullet for a pistol or a samurai sword, a pistol, and a hostage. I’m taking the sword! (You bring up a great point. Consider Merle’s attempt on the Governor. Merle had training and was way more skilled for this than either Rosita or Michonne. He had ammo and still failed while dealing with way fewer obstacles. The only realistic way is to have a sniper like they do in Sasha, or do to a suicide bombing style mission. Which…….I shouldn’t say anything more.)
Bits: Michonne has the drive more than Rosita. I think Rosita is an emotional mess and a mean girl. Michonne has skill, knows how to conceal her emotions and was a bad ass with the Governor and can do it again. (I absolutely would have bet my left testicle that you would go with Michonne. Good ole lefty! In a case like this, is skill more important than a risk taker?)
Kristi: I want to go with Michonne because she is my favorite but I have a feeling Rosita is about to F some stuff upon. I feel like she has endured more at the hands of Negan. (Rosita has a combination of crazy eyes and “Little Man Syndrome” with a dash of the “Why Me’s” working out for her at the moment.
Kent: I have to respectfully go with Rosita. Michonne isn’t accurate with a gun, so even if she ascertains some guns along the way, they are somewhat useless to her. We all love her sword, but the sword will lose a fight in Sanctuary. Rosita not only has gun skills, but she is running on some crazy adrenaline and drive at the moment. Like she doesn’t believe that Kevin Bacon was in Footloose level of stubbornness. Still, a solo gunner can’t be the answer. A suicide run is, and at the moment, Michonne is more calculated. If the idea pops into Rosita’s mind to simply get a big vehicle and just smash into Sanctuary, that can cause all kinds of issues. Also, I hate to say it, but Tara is still in play potentially, although not part of the question.
What do you think Jesus is doing?
Raylene: Jesus is in Sanctuary trying to remain undetected to see where Negan lives and how his operation works.
Cece: Infiltrating somehow.
Bob: I think he is observing and infiltrating at this moment. I don’t think he has tried to free Daryl. I feel like the boot thuds leaving Daryl’s door are very un-ninja like. (I felt that note was left by Sherry or Dr Carson.)
Briana: I assume he got in the back of the truck through the vent on the roof to hitch a ride back to Alexandria! That’s the only thing that made sense to me for that little clip of him we got. On a side note, I was disappointed he wasn’t in more of this episode! I was looking forward to more Jesus! (I’m on board with everything that you said here. More Jesus would have been nice.)
Bits: Jesus is being Jesus. He is a sneaky bad ass and is planning to help break out Daryl and keep and “eye” on Carl… see what I did there! In the words of Vanilla Ice.. GO NINJA GO NINJA GO! (Pandering to my senses will get you everywhere, and Vanilla Ice does exactly that. I don’t think he is going to break Daryl out though, but I can see him attempting that feat.)
Kristi: I think Jesus is going to help Darryl and get some intel for the group.
Kent: I’m enjoying reading words like infiltrating and intel, and Go Ninja Go. I honestly believe that Jesus bailed. He came to get a specific bit of info, and he is either heading back to Alexandria, or my guess is that he is simply heading back to the Hilltop. Yes, that is boring, but who’s to say that he can’t have an adventure along the way?
Should Eugene have made the bullet for Rosita, considering all the possible outcomes?
Raylene: No he shouldn’t have made the bullet because when she screws the shot up which she will it will not be her that gets the punishment and Eugene knows this.
Cece: No. As mentioned before, she’s not going about things the right way.
Bob: No. Negan will somehow know that Rosita didn’t make the bullet so more people are going to die. Rosita will be a wife or go to the “whore house” place.
Briana: I think he had to do it for her because it’s her and they have this bond over Abe and his death meant so much to both of them. But do I think it will have a productive outcome? No I don’t lol
Bits: Should he have made the bullet for Rositsa… No. Should he have made a bullet to prove that he is capable… Yes. He has big ideas.
Kristi: Hell yes he should have made the bullet! He needs to step up his game and grow a pair. His best friend was just murdered in front of him and hes too scared to do anything. Time to get off your add and be of some help to the group! (You were my last hope to have somebody wholeheartedly agree. You are the “gung ho Al” of the group, so this is no surprise. You want shit done. Still, I would be remiss to not mention that you are severely underselling Eugene.)
Kent: The answer is not easy. Negan likes to be challenged, but only by certain people. Carl can get away with it, but Rosita may not. With that comes repercussions of the bashed in skull variety. Still, I get that Eugene has that bond and he has loyalty to Rosita despite a lot of issues. Desperate times call for desperate measures. if you have faith that this crazy bitch can make a positive difference, then I say you take that chance. Otherwise, you say no. I feel like I would have taken a chance based on all of my decision making in every video game that I have ever played. My motto is: If you ain’t dyin, you ain’t tryin’.
Favorite scene of the episode?
Raylene: When Negan said really your starving then immediately gives a insincere apologize to Olivia and offers to have sex with her. (It really was a treat.)
Cece: When Carl shows Negan the ‘grand tour’ of Alexandria. (It was nice to have some levity.)
Bob: Negan holding Rick’s baby. Haha, I laughed all the way through this whole episode but that was the cream. (What a great visual. We never get that in the comic because Judith dies in the prison. So this is all a nice new story possibility, and the music, it was tremendous.)
Briana: When Carl told Negan to jump out of the window to save him the trouble of killing him! I laughed out in surprise when he said that! Loved it! (I laughed as well. Really funny stuff.)
Bits: The moment when Daryl looks up at the top of the truck as it pulls away. I made some shout out loud… (I can totally envision this in my head happening. It makes me laugh.)
Kristi : When Negan brought Carl into the room to show him the power he had over his people. I know he is an ass but it was slightly impressive. (It was nice to see power and respect that Negan has. It added perspective to everything.)
Kent: I’m going to cheat and offer 2, because I can. 1. Jesus looking at Carl after the wave. It was really solid. 2. Negan walking barefoot on the carpet. I have no idea why this made me giggle so much, but the whole thing was the nice moment of levity compared to the rest of this season. Also, there was a Kent sighting for a second!!!
Is Spencer an asset to Alexandria? Also, would Spencer be better off living someplace other than Alexandria?
Raylene: No Spencer is not an asset he’d be better off dead.
Cece: Hell no. He’s annoying, clumsy and gets in the way. He can live anywhere else as far as I’m concerned.
Bob: He is an asset because he still wants to be free. He is good right at Alexandria. (I am just happy that there’s one person who concurs with me.)
Briana: I really wanted to like Spencer. His family were such remarkable people and losing them really sucked because they were such great assets to Alexandria. But let’s face it, he was the last person of them that should have lived! He’s a total moron, he’s entitled like no other, he’s selfish, and he doesn’t actually do anything at all that gives him the right to have the ego he has! Would he be better off somewhere else, no. He doesn’t belong in this world. He only made it this far because of the fact that he lived in Alexandria. Ok I’ll hop off my soap box now! (Wellllll, I will say that Reg and Deanna are really missed in my opinion. They never had to die to move the show forward. As a matter of fact, if Pete would have just killed Spencer instead of Reg, that could have been interesting. )
Bits: I’m still undecided about Spencer. He’s still a pretty lame character to me. I can’t tell right now if he’s still looking out for himself or anyone else. However, I did notice that they made him pretty good looking this episode. Even his clothes are changing… hopefully he’ll get got soon. (You get a comment because that he’ll get got. Had you said he “gon’ get got” it would have been super sweet.)
Kristi: I am not a fan of Spencer. I do not feel like he is an asset. I really do not think he would be better off anywhere as his character is really pointless to me.
Kent: So I admit to asking questions that seemingly have obvious answers that tug on the current emotions. This being one of them. Yes, on the surface, Spencer is not a terribly likable person. But he’s also not necessarily a bad person. He brought back more supplies than anybody else has recently, in order to uphold the deal with Negan and buy time. That keeps the people of Alexandria alive. So when I read all of these comments against him, it feels like you want Negan to kill more Alexandrians. Without Spencer busting his ass, Negan would need something in return, aside from Olivia’s sweet ass. While Spencer has shown a spoiled brat aspect to him, he has also not been afraid to get his hands dirty. Remember when he was crawling across the rope? He didn’t have to do that. His attitude may be awful, but I think he actually has good intentions and more importantly the best intentions, in his mind, to help keep Alexandria up and running. Does that make him a bad guy? I think he would be better off just being a Savior because at least he would move up to a good soldier for Negan if he could curtail his attitude a bit. He’d be better appreciated, that’s for sure. Tara comes back with silly novelty sunglasses and gets a pass. Spencer goes out on his own, gets a bunch of supplies and reads Latin, gets hated on.
Were you hoping to hear “Easy Street” when Daryl was placed back in his cell?
Raylene: I was indifferent to hear the song although it wouldn’t have bothered me
Cece: Yes. And I’m disappointed I didn’t.
Bob: Nope, I had forgotten.
Briana: Surprisingly, yes! How can they put him back in his box without his tunes! Lol!
Bits: Without a doubt.
Kristi: I have actually forgotten about Easy Street, so no.
Kent: The responses were fairly split here, to no surprise. I love the song, so yes, very disappointed. Just remember, when you’re on Easy Street, it feels so sweet because the world is but a treat. We get to break out the good champagne while riding the gravy train when you’re on Easy Street. I don’t know about you guys, but gravy is F’N awesome!
Name another song that you would have enjoyed hearing Carl sing.
Raylene: The piano has been drinking by Tom Waites (Great choice to suck up to me. Yes, I would have loved to hear this!)
Cece: I would have enjoyed like some classic rock or something. Maybe some ‘More Than a Feeling’ by Boston. (One of my 25 favorite songs and was played during the second half of season 6, so definitely sold!)
Bob: Swing low, Sweet Chariot. (Interesting to say the very least. It’s a song that would be easy for him, and is well known. I say that this is very practical.)
Briana: My Milkshake brings all the boys to the yard!! Haha! When he asked Negan what he was going to do to him and he was all “screw you! Seriously, screw you!” I was a little afraid for Carl so that song would have fit with my imagination of what was going down. (I’m upset with myself for not having thought of this one!)
Bits: Purple People Eater. One eyed, one horned… (Ridiculous, and now I want to see it.)
Kristi: Slipknot-Duality. “I push my fingers into my eyes” 🙂 (Look at you being all topical while promoting your particular style of music. Nice one!)
Kent: When I asked this question, I always knew that this would come back to Eminem. I just picture him rapping “Lose Yourself” from 8 Mile, and getting to that point where he says “Time’s up, over, blaow!” Also, he should have a hoodie over his head while doing it.
Bonus Deuce Deuce
On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the best, how would you rate Negan as a leader using whatever criteria that you deem fit.
Raylene: Unfortunately I give Negan an 8 rating I don’t want to but his system seems to be working for him until a few over throw his system.
Cece: 10. He may not be a good person, but he has order.
Bob: 8, he rules by Machiavellian principles (The Prince) as well as a distorted Hammurabi’s Code.
Briana: I will go with an 8. I think he’s done an excellent job of keeping his crew together, fed, safe, content. All of the things you’d want in a leader except the fear aspect. Rick is one of his people, Negan is not. He is basically their Tyrant to Rick being a mayor. So even though his people have all they need for the most part, they still live in fear.
Bits: 10. He has a crew, wives, servants and people that fear and respect him. He is 100% living a new world dream.
Kristi: 9- He has pretty much complete control of his people.
Kent – I am surprised that there was at least one rebel rouser dismissing Negan’s tactics and leadership. I will give him a 9.2 and this video.
Name a character who’s stock has risen, in your opinion, this half season. Name a character who’s stock has lowered.
Raylene: Father Gabriel has really improved for me. He is hitting every mark by giving Rick his pep talk, being quick on his feet with the graves during Negan’s visit, and putting Spencer in his place. Rosita and Michonne have dropped the ball. They all are gung ho to take Negan out even though they know how it will turn out: not well.
Cece: Carl, Rick.
Bob: Daryl’s has risen – I thought he was tough but man. He is tough. Negan’s has dropped. I feel like at any moment someone will kill him because… It just appears as though everyone hates him. A lot.
Briana: I’ll go with Gabriel for higher stock. He has completely become a part of this. In it for the long haul and willing to do whatever it takes to keep the group together. I loved his speech to Spencer and thought it went really well with his character and to show how far he’s come from the first time we met him. As far as losing stock, I definitely have to go with Rick. I think he will pull himself out of it but for now I’m just ashamed of him. He is not the man who bit a chunk out of a guys neck or killed his best friend to keep what was his.
Bits: Rick… Rick who? He is a back story for me. And for a character that has risen some would be Gabriel. I’m not a Gabriel fan but loved the conversation with Spencer.
Kristi: I think Gabriel is going to break out with something soon. Daryl is just annoying me this season. His weak s attempt at an escape really bothered me for some reason .
Kent: OK, I admit it. This was just an excuse to get people to praise Gabriel and Carl. The question on my mind is Gabriel’s longevity. It’s a well known rule that black men do poorly on The Walking Dead. Gabe has now made it 3 seasons, with no end in sight. Can he ride this wave? Does that mean terrible things for Heath? I also enjoy how one people has Daryl as rising and one has him as lowering. Daryl’s character has had a roller coaster of a season.. He got Glenn killed, he’s become the pee cleaner upper, and yet still maintained a lot of his best qualities that made Daryl so lovable in season 2. The fact that Rick is listed 3 times as sinking proves how brilliant the writers are, due to what is coming up. In this household, made up of me and my Pillow Pet Penguin named Butters, In Rick Grimes we trust. Hopefully this week will show the lengths that Rick is willing to go to keep things moving smoothly. Once again, do you want people to live or die? Father Gabriel is my choice for character rising with Aaron, Carl. and Spencer behind him. Carl was so high before the season, I didn’t have much room for him to rise. As far as characters whose stock has fallen, it’s tough because a lot of characters have only had an episode or 2 to s