The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:8 Ep:4 “Some Guy”

We got a more character and story driven episode, thankfully, and it didn’t disappoint.  They really added layers and dimensions to Ezekiel and Jerry.  I’m back with my Mean Street Posse who answer my inane questions.  As always, any comments in bold are done by Kent.  Please enjoy, and share this with friends on social media in memory of Shiva.

Intro

  1.  I know some of you are especially emotional, so let’s just get it out of the way.  Really, what was Jerry thinking when he was trying to break the chain or lock with his battleaxe and as a consequence, breaking it?

Briana:  Right? What was he thinking? Wood against chains? I think he just panicked and did the only thing he could do to try getting the gate open!  (I can’t recall any video game where wood beat chains, and Jerry strikes me as a gamer pre ZA.)

Bob:  Perfect.  The hinges may have been weaker.  This was one of many scenes where walkers were right on top of them with a ton of dialogue.  (I very much appreciate that you bring up the dialogue aspect.  It’s pretty damn funny when they do this sort of silliness.  It makes me chuckle.)

Bitty: Jerry!!! Noooooooo! He wasn’t thinking about anything other than the King. He was in a moment of do or die. (Yeah, I think his hair did the talking there.  You could tell that his head wasn’t fully in the game.)

Brian:  he knew his trusty weapon would not let him down and had to save the king.(You gotta save the King or else it’s all for nothing.)

Kristi:  He was just trying to get out of there and that was the idea that hatched in his mind. It wasn’t really a sit down to make a solid plan kinda moment. (I read this and laughed because I pictured Ezekiel and Jerry pulling a Zack Morris and pausing the action and sitting down drawing up a plan to stay alive.  I think of weird things.)

Chris:  That axe was the glue that held the group together……. I don’t even……..  (Brilliant answer that made me legit laugh.  Thank you for that.)

Raylene:  I believe he was trying to break the chains perhaps figuring it would be easier than breaking the lock. There was really no place for them to go unless Jerry just tossed the king over the fence like a hoss.  (Bonus points for saying Hoss, and I would have also enjoyed them showing Jerry toss a dummy of Ezekiel like they used to do in Married With Children.)

Eric:  all he was thinking about was saving the king. Weapons come and go in this world. Daryl lost his crossbow numerous times through the series. (This made me wonder, how many crossbows has Daryl gone through and does he keep a supply of arrows at Alexandria?)

Kent:  Let’s face it, some of us are better/worse than others in a panic situation.  It was clearly a panic situation and it doesn’t strike me that Jerry has been in many situations like this.  Now, I am tossing this idea out there, but with Jerry’s strength and and the battleaxe, I kinda thought the better moe was to go for the chain link fencing.  It’s been awhile in the ZA, so it seems plausible that he could have hossed his way through the fence that way, or at least had a better chance than the lock and chain attempt.  With that being said, I can’t make fun because I panic in stupid video games, so I’d be awful in the ZA.

 

  1.  A lot of us knew that Shiva would meet her demise this season for a variety of reasons.  Was this the right time and the right purpose?

Briana:  Is there such thing as a right time or reason for that awfulness? It was horrific and had me more upset than most people who got got on this show!! (Yes that was a shout out to your usual verbiage! Lol) But to more directly answer your question, it was as good a time and reason as any other. Ezekiel saved her life and she repaid him. The sounds though man!  (What is this emotion that I am feeling?  Joy? Pride? I’m just so happy to see you use the got got that you get a gold star.)

Bob:  I was just laughing…  The show set up sooo many moments where the tiger would rush to the rescue.  It was appropriate to kill the tiger BUT I really have a hard time thinking a cornered tiger that weighs 500 lbs could not have just run through or quickly rip apart the walkers.  If there is a belief that the tiger died on purpose, stop it now.  (If you read my answer, you will see how much I agreed with your assessment.  I think of Tyrese taking out like 50 walkers surrounding the car, but this tiger couldn’t handle 8 of them.  Please!)

Bitty:  Ezekiel saved her, she saved him. Poetic and amazing. I think I was more upset with her death than many characters we’ve lost. What would happen if she got bit but ran away? Would she have turned?  (I will not focus on the Disney aspect of your comment, but the question of animals getting bit is something that I don’t think they have yet to really answer.  I can’t recall an instance in the comic where it happened.  Yeah, you opened Pandora’s Box here.  If we think about animalistic nature, it’s to hunt and eat and feed basically, that and to mate.  While we have yet to see walkers attempting to mate, we see that their main goal is to feed.  Jenner talked about this in the season 1 finale.  So how would we know when an animal had “turned”?  The usual thing would be to spread the virus, but everybody already has it, except Little Ass Kicker.  I wonder, what would be the tell tale signs of say a cat who turned.  Would it be meaner like Church was after coming back from being buried in Pet Sematary?  Would it walk like it had 15 shots of booze, or would it have a different breathing sound or meow?  Yeah, you did not expect me to go this in depth, but these are things I have pondered.  Good question.  Anybody who is reading this, I’d love to hear your insight, maybe via comment on social media or on the blog post itself.)

Brian:  Right time and place. Another false idol getting his due for being a murderous leader. If the king had stayed with the saviors and not joined rick’s coup then him and his subjects would still be alive.  (Now I know that some of you don’t agree with Brian’s assessment, but there is something to be said for this theory.  I ask later on about whether the Kingdom should have gotten involved.  Would The Saviors have kept collecting and basically let the Kingdom live in peace had they just stayed in their lane?  I think this is a fine point.)

Kristi:  I am very unhappy about this but I think it happened at a good time. He needed Shiva at that moment and although, this is one death that will impact him, I think he needed to be thrown into the reality of what is happening. (I was afraid to message you after this episode.)

Chris:  I think it needed to happen to break the king.  He’s going to go through his depressed stage now, only for Carol to show him the light.  (Isn’t it interesting how Carol really is like the voice of reason, and has been for most of the series.  Not the morale compass, but really a voice of reason.  After T Dog sacrificed himself for her, I think that was her moment, and I know the Sophia thing also contributed, but the T Dog incident made her go in a closet alone with just her thoughts and since then, she’s been different. Like, she wasn’t wrong in burning the bodies at the prison.  She did the right (unpopular) thing.)

Raylene:  Yes this seemed to be a fitting way for her to go out saving her handler as he did for her prior to the outbreak.  (You’ve known this was coming because I don’t ever not spoil stuff from the comics, but this felt right at least.)

Eric:  I would have liked to see Shiva last longer in the series. I think it would have been a good “symbol” for the group. She died saving her master.  (I would have liked to see her last longer, but I do believe that it was just as much a budget thing as it was narrative driven.  Let’s face it, the show is making cash, but they have so many people to pay.  The 100 plus actors, the walkers, all the make up and special effects people, the cost for locking down these places, the cost of having Shiva in more was probably prohibitive.)

Kent:  I’m really glad that Bob brought up 2 points that I was going to make.  I mean it’s like Thanksgiving with John Goodman, Bob is not leaving me much meat here, haha.  We have been told time and time again how the walkers continue to get weaker and weaker, that’s how Rick can kill a whole field on his own without a bite or scratch.  Sooooo big bad ass tiger that wouldn’t have an issue taking strong people out is going to get taken out like that?  I’m not buying that, and I know that I am supposed to be a good Lil Jimmy and just be happy and play along, but this was silly.  The narrative that they tried making this poetic, I get it, and it pulls at the heart strings, as you have read, but this was like some Disney shit, or fast traveling dragons swooping in to save a great group of guys.  Are TWD and GoT competing for some silliness award?

 

  1.  This question is brought to you via Brian.  Jerry loses his battle axe and the king loses his tiger. Will the loss of their iconic weapons cause them to fall out of character?

Briana:  Yes I believe it is sort of an homage to how things will be different for them moving forward. I’m not sure about Jerry, but for Ezekiel, he was already falling out of character before she died. And that will be the last straw for him. He believes now that he’s just a guy who happened to find a tiger and now he has no tiger.  (Do you think it will take Ezekiel time to be that public face that he was or will he begrudgingly play the role and just not be very public?)

Bob:  The King has his hair.  Jerry should wield a sledgehammer next, an upgraded Tyrese character.  (I love all 3 aspects of your response, the hair, sledgehammer, and Tyrese.  Gold star!)

Bitty:  I believe that Jerry will continue his role in the kingdom. If anything the weakening of Ezekiel will make Jerry even more important to him. (Very good point in regards to Jerry being forced to up his game.)

Brian:  The king has lost the reason he became the king. He will be torn apart. (One might theorize that a part of him does get torn from him.  I can’t say anything beyond that.)

Kristi:  Jerry, no. I think Ezekiel will be at a loss but he will rise back up and be stronger because of it. (Yeah, he will rise up again.  I am curious, like I asked with Bri, wondering if he will stay in his room for awhile, or go out and try to put on his persona.)

Chris:  I doubt Jerry will become less awesome, but losing Shiva will be devastating to Ezekiel.  He’s going to believe he is nothing without her.  (Yeah, the moment Jerry becomes less awesome, probably the show gets cancelled.)

Raylene:  I think for a while the king will lose his way but then the sweet loving of Carol will bring him back and Jerry will remain as he has been. (Will we get a Carol and Ezekiel sexy scene?  I would applaud this.)

Eric:  Daryl was always Daryl even without his crossbow.  The king will still be the king even without his tiger. and jerry can always find another axe.  (Eric, that was borderline poetic.  Kudos.  You’re right, Daryl was Daryl.  If you’ve made it this far in the ZA, I feel that your time for mourning is cut by 98% or what we would go through.  Great point.)

Kent:  I would say that Jerry basically becomes Ezekiel’s next weapon….although if a sledgehammer happened to end up in Jerry’s hands, HHH would approve, and he is the King of Kings.  So from one king to another, you cannot go wrong with this weapon.  Plus it is much less likely to get stuck like machetes tend to.  I think the characters evolve to half assedly answer Brian’s question.

 

  1.  Did you find the opening scene more inspirational or depressing?  Please only consider the opening scene and not the whole episode and choose one or the other because yes, it’s both.  See how bland that answer is?

Briana:  this is a tough one but I’ll have to say depressing! Even if I didn’t know how it ended for them and only saw that scene without anything else. Loved ones leaving to fight a war is depressing regardless of the outcome.  (Yeah, the leaving for war thing, I gotta say, the way they filmed this whole opening was incredibly effective in my opinion.)

Bob:  Since I have to pick one of those, depressing.  It seemed to be a grim and accurate portrayal of the results of war.  Ezekiel being in quasi-shock – well Ezekiel got what he deserved for saying we will not lose one of our ranks.  (Excellent point about the war aspect.  It’s odd to think of somebody from the theater being so outlandish to make such a stupid proclamation.  Then I think back to our time doing theater and remember a handful of jacmos that would be that foolish.)

Bitty:  It was depressing. Also ummmm electricity?  (This isn’t the Stranger Things blog.  Although, man a TWD universe with an Upside Down would be fascinating, at least for an episode.)

Brian:  its always best to dress well and kiss your loved ones goodbye before you leave to murdert innocents.  (Don’t mind me, I’m just over here nodding with a smirk on my face.)

Kristi:  Depressing. With the history of the show, I think we all know after a speech like that a certain demise is sure to follow. (It’s like Jax Teller giving a rousing speech before they got to take out the Mayans or Niners, you know if it’s a big speech, somebody is dying.)

Chris:  Just depressing.  Ezekiel was not prepared for the idea of losing his people, and to lose so many in such a quick fashion set the tone for his breakdown at the end.  (Yeah, theater people are not very good kings or generals.  I once played the role of a king.  I was terrible at it.)

Raylene:  To me it was depressing the king was not ready for the way the Saviors fight and other than the two men and kid we see at the gate in the end is the majority of the kingdom left just women?  (Yeah, it’s probably similar to the crop of people that Rick’s group brought to the prison from Woodbury.  That’s my guess.  Also, let’s not forget Nabila, who is a crowd favorite.)

Eric:  it was inspiring to see the king rally his people to battle. Like he knew it wouldn’t end well.  (If I put myself in the mindset of being a member of the Kingdom, that’s the exact kind of speech I would like to hear before marching off to my impending doom.  That’s what I took away from it.)

Kent:  Huh, I gotta be honest, I really expected more people to say inspiring rather than depressing.  Thanks everybody, except for Eric, for making me incorrect.  To me, that speech that he gave, I absolutely loved it.  Looking back on this show, it may end up one of my favorite speeches, probably top 3.  The Governor raiding the prison is also obviously up there.

 

  1.  Now that we have had an opportunity to meet Gunther and see his demise, do you wish that he maybe had a bigger role prior?  Gunther is the Savior who took Ezekiel and stole his blade.

Briana:  Eww no! He was a Pervy looking weirdo and I’ve had enough of the psycho saviors at this point! Lol! There are enough solid characters who have the bad guy, creeper dude thing going for him. Not that he was bad for that part, I just don’t know how much of him I could have handled other than that.  (Pervy looking weirdo?  Check.  Creeper?  Check.  He’s just living the ZA dream.)

Bob:  Seriously?  What could be a bigger role than being halved by Jerry?  (Your answer made me stop in my tracks and reflect on that.  You’re not wrong.  I think it’s one of the most iconic kills of the show.)

Bitty:  I’m sorry I just couldn’t get the image of Napoleon Dynamite out of my head.  (Interestingly enough, well you can scroll down and see that you aren’t alone.  I prefer the Dahmer reference, but to each their own.)

http://fanfest.com/2017/11/13/the-walking-dead-can-we-talk-about-gunther-the-savior-real-quick/

Brian:  no Gunther could have been anyone. The true believers know that together they will survive. They are all negan and that way they use his strength and toughness.  To survive.  (But could he have been Dahmer’s son?  That’s my big question.)

Kristi: I didn’t care for him at all. I’m good with the amount of screen time he received. Less would have been prefered actually. (I kinda thought that you would dig him.  He reminded me of somebody that would have been in Devil’s Rejects.)

Chris:  He was the last person to die via Jerry’s battle axe!  He must have placed a curse on it  (Is it safe to say the first and last?  Jerry doesn’t strike me as a dude who has killed any living person prior.  The curse is real.  Hopefully next year during the season, do something like they are with the 30 second videos on the red handled machete, maybe we could get the history of the battleaxe.)

Raylene:  I would have like a longer role for him perhaps seeing if he really was mind f****king Ezekiel.  (You have spent too much time with me if you enjoyed him.  Good for you.)

Eric:  little peon fuck. I wanted to watch him die from the first time I saw him  (Well, I don’t know if we will get a more aggressive response in this blog, so there is that.)

Kent:  Man, i rather liked this guy and thought he did a dynamite job.  Judging from the responses, it seems like he did a good job, but people are sick of that character archetype.  To nobody’s surprise, I really enjoyed him.  Please get him for the next Rob Zombie film, as I think he would do a great job.

 

  1.  Should Carol have let the 2 guys get away with the guns and save Jerry and Ezekiel or focus on the task at hand?

Briana:  She did the right thing. You save the people you know you can save instead of hoping to try to save people you still might not save and then still get the other people killed. That didn’t make sense did it?  (It makes perfect sense the 7th time you read it.)  Lol! If she’d kept fighting with those guys, she may have very easily just ran out of bullets and still accomplished nothing is what I’m getting at here.  (Yeah, it could have just turned into a pissing contest.)

Bob:  If I were those guys, I would have shot Carol when she ran away to save Ezekiel.  Then I would have had Ezekiel for Negan.  That only happened to bring Rick and Daryl into the episode.  The Humvee chase was a very good scene.  (Yeah, I don’t know why they didn’t at least take a shot at Carol.  It baffled me.)

Bitty: Should Carol have saved the guns? Hell yes. Two seasons ago Carol would have. Last season Carol would’ve hid and this Season’s Carol has found a balance between being a bad ass and a person with feelings again. (I like where you’re going with this.  To add to it, in this scenario, guns equals lives to a degree.  We all love Ezekiel and Jerry, but one could easily make an argument that her acquiring those guns and keeping them from Negan could very well save 30 lives.  It’s something to think about.  Or not, I don’t know.  I’m tired.  Now I kinda want to switch my answer.  I won’t, but I kinda want to.)

Brian:  Carol knew  that the other murderous duo was waiting to finish what she could not.  (DId she definitely know?  I was questioning it.  Like she knew after the fact, but did she know in the moment?  Like the plan didn’t go off without a hitch, so they didn’t have everything exactly timed, there was no official time table, I can’t imagine.  It felt like lazy writing that Rick and Daryl conveniently got out of trouble in time to chase down these guys.)

Kristi:  I don’t think she really had a choice. Saving Ezekiel was the right thing to do. The Kingdom needs their King and it would have haunted Carol had she let him die. She did the right thing. (You say that it would have haunted her, and I agree with that.  Do you think that she needed to do it in some regard to her own mental health?  Like she can’t allow somebody to die on her watch if she can do anything about it.  I hadn’t considered it, but that’s a solid idea.)

Chris:  If she doesn’t save Ezekiel then the kingdom has no leader and will be no help in the war.  She made the right choice.  However, I agree with other comments that she could have shot the tires out.  (So while I agree with you about the tires, I then thought, if she did that, would she have definitely forced their hand to shoot and try to kill her?  Then I talked to myself in circles.)

Raylene:  Perhaps she could’ve shot the tires out on the vehicles and then saved Jerry and Ezekiel. (Okay, another person for shooting tires out.  Note what I said to Chris.)

Eric:  in the end, they got the guns. But the writers seem to be taking liberties with the fact that Rick will save the day.  (Yeah, just a smidgen with the liberties.  I call BS that they timed it that way, but it helps move the narrative along.  The logic is very flawed though.)

Kent:  I’m still shocked that those guys didn’t at the very least shoot more at her, despite the ammo situation.  As you know, I pick and choose odd things to dwell on, this was one.  Logically, they had a chance at the king, and even if they knew that, it seemed odd that they took a chance that she wasn’t going to kill them boys.  Of course it’s the “right choice” because it played out positively for our group.  In a real life predicament, I felt that she was a tad careless.  Once again, I am supposed to suspend my disbelief, so I apologize.

 

  1.  While this episode certainly humanized Ezekiel significantly, gave us additional perspective, did it make him a better or worse leader, in your eyes?  Also, and this per Brian, with the King being down at the moment, will other characters maintain their role playing within the Kingdom?

Briana: If Ezekiel really lets himself go in this ocean of depression he’s on the edge of, they’re screwed. But I think he will pull himself out! He loves his people and they will show him they still need him and he will do it for them whether he thinks he can or not.  (I am hoping that Nabila helps him.  She is the chick that we saw last season, and she was super sweet.  I hope she gets more shine this season.)

Bob:  Ezekiel needs to live by the Fake it till you Make it mantra.  He can be down but as a leader he has to resurge and not feel self pity.  And not make silly promises like no one will die in war.  Yes, I am not done with this dead horse. (Good, keep up the good work on beating the dead horse.  I get stuck on certain things and can’t let go, like Daryl and Carol in the ambulance or Glenn and the dumpster, or Rick running through walkers with a scratch or bite.)

Bitty:  “Fake it till you make it baby” He’s by far the guy I’d like to hang out with during the apocalypse. (I think that would make for a wonderful question some week when I don’t have enough topics.  Hint….hint.)

Brian:  I think that now the facade is crumbling and they are not going to make it so stop faking it. His ego has led his cult followers to certain death. (The word facade doesn’t get used enough in this blog and really for this show, facade should be used way more often.)

Kristi:  After all is said and done, I think it made him a stronger leader. I liked that he told Jerry he was no King and that he was willing to stay back since he was slowing them down. I think it will make him stronger. It will knock some sense into him that they are not untouchable and have a better grip on reality. I think the people in the kingdom need him as their leader so I don’t think anything will change as far as that goes. (Yeah, if you read my answer, I’m of the same thought.  Losses create opportunities to learn and better yourself.)

Chris: I think, in the end, this will make him a better leader.  Having to deal with loss will make him stronger.  I think the role playing has to continue to keep morale up. (Imagine if they just stopped with the role playing and then out comes Jerry and like he didn’t get the memo.  That would be a funny scene at the very least.)

Raylene:  I think it just showed him as an inexperienced fighting leader . He did have the best of intentions for his people. Yes people will try to keep their life as normal as possible.  (Best intentions, sure.  I am surprised that he didn’t have any solid advisors, aside from Carol and the ghosts of Benjamin and Richard.)

Eric:  he is the king for a reason. he plays the part and people follow him. other character might “ step up” but he will always be the king (That’s the thing.  You can fool so many people that you are something that you are not, which I guess is the fake it til you make it, but it kinda goes deeper than that.  Yes, he’s made it, but more importantly, he did so good that people have legit bought into it.)

Kent:  I just hit myself in the face with a pillow accidentally and wished to share that knowledge with you.  I’m going to compare this a bit to a famous person, and it’s sports related, and I apologize, but the analogy should work.  Michael Jordan wasn’t always the greatest.  WHat made him great is that he had the natural progression of fighting to make the playoffs, then fighting, in some cases literally fighting to get past the Bad Boy Detroit Pistons who had their own “Jordan Rules” for ways to play MJ.  So he failed, it took like 5 seasons before he won his first championship.  He was cocky and he is the single most competitive person alive.  But losing definitely builds character.  Think about school, if you got just one question wrong, if you cared, you looked at what you did wrong and you attempted to learn from that mistake which makes you stronger.  To answer Brian’s question, I think the role playing must continue because it is incredibly effective in maintaining order.

 

  1.  A third or half of the Kingdom has been wiped out.  In hindsight, should they have gotten involved in this war?

Briana:  I still think it was necessary. Without them, they had no chance. And it seems like the plan is working. It’s war. Independence is never gained without casualty. They will rebuild and persevere.  (Great line about the independence.  I mean, it’s not Bill Pullman great, but it’s very good.  I just wanted an opportunity to mention Bill Pullman.)

Bob:  Yes. Of course – while they had weapons and confidence. (I think weapons and confidence, especially in this scenario, are equally important, so great point.)

Bitty:  Yes. They needed to be involved. They need to survive. If anything they were the most prepared. (I don’t know, those Oceansiders were really well prepared.)

Brian:  no they were surviving and even thriving before they were brainwashed by rick and his plot to hide his past.  (If anybody expected a different answer from Brian, you haven’t been paying any attention.)

Kristi:  Yes. They need to come together and defeat Negan. They should have planned better and had his speech been more realistic, they may have been better prepared though. (I loved the speech, but how many people just went in thinking that they were gonna run this town tonight?  How many realists were involved?)

Chris:  Of course.  Being under Negan’s rule, it was only a matter of time before people died.  (That’s something that hasn’t really been tackled well in this show.  How much does Negan value the people under him in The Saviors and the groups that work for him?  I wish they would delve deeper into his psychology.  You can’t just kill all of your suppliers, I mean The Governor would have, but I feel that Negan is smarter than that.(

Raylene:  Yes because they would have still been under Negan’s rule  (Is that such a bad thing?)

Eric:  the numbers were needed. They chose to fight the saviors. it’s better to die on your feet than live on your knees.  (Seriously dude, you are coming out with some lines this week.  Keep this up.)

Kent:  Man, my questions suck this week because everybody is just in unison agreement.  When thinking about this, I had to determine what I felt The Kingdom’s main objective was.  Is it survival or to grow and rebuild.  While I believe it should be to survive, I feel that their objective is to grow so joining this war was the only option.  Damnit, I’m agreeing with people.  Booooooo.

 

  1.  At no point do you ever really fear for Rick or Daryl’s life and it makes certain scenes a tad silly due to lack of suspense.  Should the writers consider pulling a Game of Thrones and killing one of them to truly prove that anybody can die at any time on the show or is it too late in the show for that?

Briana:  No. I think what you’re saying makes sense and it would fulfill the storyline more realistically but it’s a show and those are our dudes, man! It’s definitely too late to pull that stunt!  (It is too late in the show to do it.  Nobody else is big enough to have the impact, but you can’t kill either.)

Bob:  That is a jump the shark move if I have ever heard one.  Ted McGinley. (Thank you for referencing Ted McGinley.)

Bitty:  If either Rick or Daryl die it has to be epic. I don’t think they’ll do it but that would be the only way it’d be acceptable. (They can do it in the final season no problem, but by then, it will have an entirely different meaning. On the plus side, a cleansing is coming next year.  There are going to be some sad people in this group.)

Brian:  yes but it needs to be believable deaths. Darryl needs to OD or Rick needs to do the right thing and realize that he should end his own life to save the rest of the people that follow him before his selfish ways kill them all. Perfect ending Darryl ods and as rick tries to revive him walker Darryl eats him.  (I wish Daryl still had some of Merle’s pills for when he had The Clap. On a related note, ACDC’s song “The Jack” is actually about how he got The Clap, but in Australia, they can refer to it as the Jack.)

Kristi:  Yes! It would definitely add suspense to it and give other characters the chance to really shine.(I know that you and I watch a lot of the same shows, so it makes sense for you to be on my side for this one.   Nothing will ever hit me as hard as Opie’s death in Sons.)

Chris:  I think it would be an amazing idea to kill one of them off.  If not one of them, someone really important (Carl/Michener/Maggie.).  Rick or Daryl dying would be a legit shock. (I hope you don’t get mad at me for not correcting the typo, but I love how Michonne turned to Michener.  I giggled.  I still think Maggie would be a huge swerve.  If they kill Carl, I am not sure if I would be as loyal of a fan.  He’s my favorite character along with Carol.  Carol I accept because I have zero expectations moving forward because she has long been dead in the comics, and was awful in the comics.  Carl’s character continues to improve in the comics, so I’d hate to see his demise.)

Raylene:  That would definitely spice this show up if they kill one of them. (And replace them with Sean Bean.)

Eric:  at this point the ratings would tank if Daryl or Rick were killed off. (Yeah, I think that decision now would be the death knell for the show.  Had they done in Daryl in season 4 or 5, I think they could have survived it.  I don’t think the show could ever survive without Rick.  It’d be like that 70’s Show when Eric (Topher Grace) left the show.  He was the main component.)

Kent:  They are in a damned if they do and damned if they don’t point.  I love this show, but I still talk to people who don’t like it or critique it because I still think that perspective is important.  It appears to me that one of, if not the biggest complaint is that it is very formulaic and that there are characters that are put in dangerous situations but there’s no suspense because nobody believes that a Rick, Daryl, or Maggie can die.  That whole thing worked for Breaking Bad because it was about one main character. And they made it only 5 seasons long.  It’s too late to make a positive impact as far as the viewing experience.  Still, this is a big reason why Game of Thrones holds more suspense because there are point where you think that Jaime, Tyrion, or even Dany flying on her dragon could get got.  That makes that show far more compelling.  Also, I want to really say that formulaic is a good term to describe TWD.  This season Ezekiel will be depressed and moody, last year it was Daryl, and the season before it was Carol, and so on.  There seems to the topic of humanity and where the line is for “too much” as far as defending yourself or group.  They are good themes, and completely justifiable given the context, but it does happen a lot, so the nay sayers aren’t wrong.  Millennials may refer to them as haters.  Don’t be that person.

Bonus Deuce

  1.  It appears that we will get to see Eugene next week, but still no Carl.  How many more episodes before he makes an appearance and what do you think he will be doing?  Have fun with this one people.

Briana:  Wow! I honestly forgot about him. How is that even possible? I can’t even remember where he is. He’s back at Alexandria right? (Yes, he should be at least since he’s in charge.)  So he’s definitely going to have been prepping for a potential backlash if the troops fail! He’s also dropped Judith on her head and now she’s got a lazy eye! (I think it’s funny how many things and theories I have read about Judith.  I have never seen a child character so mistreated by the fans in hilarious ways.  She’s doing better than she did in the comics, that’s fo sho.)

Bob:  Carl will have made new friends.  Much needed friends.  We will see him mid-season finale or the finale.  (Huh, like dude friends that say Bro way too often, or has he forged an alliance.  I need details.)

Bitty:  Carl will have strengthened Alexandria. He will have created a system of order and a new reign of warriors. Or he’ll have knocked up Enid. I mean come on now, what’s one more baby in the apocalypse that we’ll never hear from. (Babies aren’t a bother at all in the ZA.  Really, the only trouble that Judith caused was when Glenn and Maggie went to get baby formula and Merle captured them.)

Brian:  Arl will be at home going through puberty imagining things about his soon to be stepmom.  (This is a very realistic thing that people probably cringe at, but it’s totally true.)

Kristi:  In the following week. He will be kicking it with his friends, helping them learn to fight. (I seriously hope that he’s made friends.  He needs to.  I would love to see a Morgan and Carl buddy episode.)

Chris:  Wait , that wasn’t Carl riding around with Daryl?????  I just assumed he had another growth spurt….  (I laughed and thought that this was brilliant.)

Raylene:  Two episodes and he’ll have gone to hillside and gotten Enid pregnant  (Man, you girls want Carl to put it to Enid.  That’s weird.)

Kent:  I love that multiple people thought that he would naturally knock up Enid.  I honestly think that Enid may die, but that’s just a theory.  I imagine that he is still teaching himself how to drive, maybe do some doughnuts.  I also hope that he is training Kent to be a bigger bad ass, providing that Kent is still alive.  Also, if he sent out a crew to find Heath, I would be happy.

 

  1.  Last week I should have asked this, but I will ask it now.  If you take all characters, both past and present, what would be your dream one on one fight?  Bonus points if you choose 2 characters that were alive and relevant at the same time on the show.

Briana:  I don’t get the bonus points but I’m going with it anyway bc it would be awesome! Andrea vs Tara! (No, you get bonus points.  You are the only person that killed off Tara.  That’s worth or 5 gold stars!)

Bob:  Shane v. Negan  (Thought about it, loved it, I think Shane wins.  Negan was, well I don’t want to ruin what Negan was prior to the ZA, but he didn’t have the background that Shane did.  I will say this, Negan has an extra gear when it comes to fighting, so this would be fun.)

Bitty:  Sofia v Carl. If Sofia had lived this long would she be Carl’s equal?  (This was a really great one.  So we are assuming that Carol still has learned a lot of shit, except she is also still in mother mode.  She will have taught and trained Sophia.  I would give Carl the edge because that boy has taken 2 gunshots and still lived, but that would be fun.)

Brian:  Hershel vs negan standing on opposite hillsides watching their army’s battle it out. Or negan and the governor one on one.  (Would Herschel have both legs?  If we are doing season 4 Governor, which I think was his most dangerous, and Negan, I know Negan would have the strength advantage, but Governor was faster thinking and wirey.  That’s a damn fine fight.  I’m going to take  Governor in that one.)

Kristi:  Merle and Eugene.  (Eugene whoops Merle’s ass, obviously.  Merle would go for overhand chop with his knife, but his blade would get stuck in the Tennessee top hat and Eugene would have the advantage.)

Chris:  Eugene and Gregory!!!!!  There would be so much crying.  I would actually like to see Abraham and Shane throw down.  (First of all, Gregory seems like the kind of guy that would just try to wear out Eugene, except Eugen would take 2 steps and realize that he’s wasting energy.  It would be the worst draw ever, and hilarious.  Abe and Shane was my original answer.  2 years ago, I did a bracket tournament of fights between TWD characters, selected at random.  This was a match I thought a lot about.  I think Shane wins unless Abe gets under his skin with all of his one liners.  First to make a mistake loses situation.)

Raylene:  Dale and Hershel fighting to be the moral compass of the group  (Herschel has a shotgun with unlimited ammo.  Dale is afraid to use a gun or to kill people who may kill him and his group.  I’d still enjoy this.)

Eric:  I would have liked to see Michonne and Maggie fight. I think it would make a cool fight. I also would like to see Rick really fight neegan hand to hand.  (I believe Maggie to be a really good shot, but if Michonne closed the gap while Maggie was reloading, then Michonne wins.  I think Michonne takes that one, of course it depends on the terrain.  If Michonne has nowhere to run, or does she have her sword, does Maggie get a gun.  That is a matchup that is dependant on the variables.  I think Rick wins against Negan.  I have Negan losing every fight suggested.  I really wish I could say what he was prior to the ZA.  Rick has shown me that he will be as sadistic as possible, and while that may be true of Negan, I don’t think Negan is that great of a thinker on his feet.  He is more of a strategist.  That’s my take.)

Kent:  Tara vs Tyrese, Carl, Daryl, Merle, the Governor, Carol, Abe, T Dog, Enid, Judith, and Negan would be my dream fight.  One on one though, I would have liked  Rick and Governor to have had a legit one.  Andrea vs Maggie would have been fun.  I honestly could give you 50 match ups that I would like, but I also watch way too much wrestling.  Chris actually took my original answer of Shane vs Abe.  That would be something.  Merle with both hands vs Abe would be something.

Final Thoughts – Just for fun, what do you think this “plan” is that Rick is hatching with Daryl now that they have those crates?

Briana:  I’m digging this season but I won’t lie, 4 episodes and counting on the same day gives me a weird 24 vibe and that’s throwing me off! Ready to get back to Negan and Gabriel’s love trailer!!

Bob:  It’s all about the setup and sabotaging.

Bitty:  They only have 2 massive guns right? They didn’t take all the cases from the out building?? Who knows what the plan is but I’m thinking they don’t agree.

Brian:  get surprised when they realize the guns were damaged during the accident.. remember the gun was setup during the firefight.. so getting crushed by a roll over truck could happen.

Raylene:  Arming everyone in the three communities with weapons

Eric:  they are gonna decimate the saviors with two .50 cal machine guns. They can do some serious damage.

Kent:  I think the plan is to ship Aaron and Jesus….duh.  I felt so awful writing that.  Any plan I can think of simply amuses me.    I could see them wanting to take out the Scavengers and even arm Oceanside as a sign of good faith. We’re going to see Oceanside again, so I guess we have to accept it.  I do think Rick should offer Tara to be Negan’s wife so they can have a person on the inside……and then she is made an example of in the most brutal scene in AMC’s history.  Please!!!!

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The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:8 Ep:3 “Monsters”

Well here we are with our 3rd straight action packed episode of the season.  Guys, you can slow it down and give us some Eugene and Carl.  That would be nice.  Eric and Morales got got this week and Morgan is going a little crazy.  Actually, this is a great song.  Listen to it while you read.  Any comments in bold are made by Kent.

The 9

  1.  Did you feel that Eric was more than just a background character?

Briana:  Not really, no. He was just a way to give Aaron’s character more depth.

Bob:  Appeasement to culture. (It actually amazed me how much pandering the comic does for this exact reason.)

Bitty:  I think Eric’s character was created to invest more in Aaron. Over the past 2 Seasons WD has tried to make us connect to Aaron. Honestly For Me i couldn’t even remember his name until last year. Now i see Aaron as human and compassionate, I think we’ll see a big Aaron arc because of the loss of Eric.  (You and Briana both hit it pretty solidly.  He was an Aaron enhancement character.  In the world of pro wrestling, Eric was the Brooklyn Brawler.  They use enhancement talents to take all of the moves and make another person look dominant, or in Aaron’s case, it gave him a bit more of a dynamic.  Plus in some ways it would be kinda weird to have all of these gay characters on the show and have none of them hook up.  Now if we can get Rosita and Sherry together…)

Brian:  I believe that they are attempting to make us like the band of murders. And if Aaron truly loved him he would not have allowed him to join the herd. And that may come back to bite him in the ass… hopefully literally lol  (Brian is pro ass biting.  We haven’t seen that in the show yet…..so maybe he’s on to something.)

Kristi:  He was always a background character for me.

Raylene:  No Eric was precisely that a background character. He wasn’t given much of a story other than being a househusband to Aaron. Poor character development on TWD part  (Very poor.  He was sadly better on Talking Dead than he ever was on TWD.)

Kent:  I felt that he was more of a character in the comics.  I didn’t really like Eric on the show and it was because he was rarely given much to do.  I would consider him more of a background character than a Tobin or Dianne.

 

  1.  Will Aaron raise Gracie?  If not him, then who?

Briana:  I didn’t get the impression he wanted to keep her, just that he wanted to get her to the Hilltop.  (Alas, I think you and Bitty are probably closest to the right answer in that he gets her there and she is perhaps never mentioned again.  I will say this, if I could get 10 – 1 odds on Gregory stealing Gracie and bringing her back to Sanctuary to get in Negan’s good graces, I would totally toss $10 down.)

Bob:  It’s going to have to be Aaron. (It appears that we are in the minority here in this belief.  Just keep it in mind so when it happens, we can do victory dance together.)

Bitty:  Hopefully Gracie will fall to the background at the Hilltop. Someone there will raise her. (Gracie will make for a wonderful background character.  Probably better than Eric.)

Brian:  Carol and Morgan raise grace as their own. After Carol uses her feminine powers to set him straight.  (I really do like this idea, but I fear for Morgan, so I am still on the Carol and Daryl train while also acknowledging the moment that Carol and Daryl decide to be romantic, one has to die that season.)

Kristi:  I don’t think so. It seems like he’s just at a loss and wants to help in some way. Carol or Maggie will probably raise her. (As long as Carol teaches her how to cook and tell scary stories, I am sold.)

Raylene:  I can see perhaps Maggie and Enid raising her. Although for a long shot Daryl getting her he did bond with Little Ass Kicker and was very invested in finding Sophia  (The Daryl thing would be nice in it’s own way.  He really took to Judith and him and Aaron have ate together.  Just sayin’.)

Kent:  I can come up with scenarios in which Enid, Carol, Tara, or a lesser known character takes her, but I think it’s going to be Aaron, and perhaps another gentleman down the line with magnificent hair and dreamy eyes…..Eugene.  OK, I went too far. (You went too far.)

 

  1.  Do you think that Rick and Daryl will start conflicting over Daryl’s new ways of shooting first and asking questions later?

Briana:  No. Darryl was right to shoot him and his explanation made perfect sense. This is what they came to do and Moralez would have killed them no problem if he’d not been told to spare Rick.  (I would have liked to know if Moralez would have still bored Rick with his 3 page monologue if he wasn’t waiting for backup.  These are questions I want answered.)

Bob:  Daryl killed the guy for having another gun I thought…?  (Nah, you’re right.)

Bitty:  Yes. You could feel the setup for that in their final scene. I’m dreading their demise. (Demise?  At worst they will have a heart to heart and get interrupted by something inane.)

Brian:  Rick is starting to realize that he is killing his former business associates. And Darryl is a junkie who is trying to keep his drug use at bay by killing those associated with his old dealers.  (THis all really makes a lot of sense week to week.  I love the story arc.)

Kristi:  No. Darryl is taking care of business.  Kill now, worry later. They have seen so many people turning on them. Why take the chance?  (There is zero reason to take the chance, but there’s always going to be the question of where’s the line.  The reality is that there is no line.  No true moral compass exists.  They just bring us back to that every season for conflict amongst characters.  This has been happening every single season, and I bet if you spend 3 minutes thinking, you can remember them.  Off the top of my head: 1 the CDC should I stay or should I go decision, 2 Dale & Shane with Randall, 3 What to do with the prisoners, 4 Rick trying to teach Carl when it’s ok to kill, 5 Glenn and Rick in Noah’s neighborhood, 6 Rick and Porch Dick, 7 Oceanside.)

Raylene:  Perhaps once the war is over then Rick will start to question Daryl’s motive but because of Daryl being held hostage by Negan he wants all Saviors to pay  (I don’t know if Rick can be the one who questions it.  That’s the problem.  Maggie sure as hell won’t.  This is kind of a bad story idea I think.  Hopefully they avoid this.)

Kent:  It seems like it is building up with all the things that Rick is seeing and doing.  There was the guy that Carl left food for, Gracie and then Morales, and I am sure that I am missing others.  Still, it’s war and Daryl is doing the smart thing.  This will be a discussion at some point, but they do something similar seemingly every season.  Some years Rick is overly sensitive and then Daryl is, and in season 10 Negan will be the hooker with a heart of gold.   Yeah.

 

  1.  Did Morales’ monologue alter your opinion or viewpoint of the Saviors?

Briana:  No. I can understand the perspective is different for them and that they think they’re justified in what they have to do to survive. But perception doesn’t always make you right. In the end, they’re forcing people to starve and struggle for their own benefit. That’s not ok. (It is kinda silly that we don’t get a good perspective of what other groups have done to survive aside from from bits and pieces.  They have made sure to tell us a lot about the Saviors though just so there is a big neon flashing sign above their HQ saying “These are the bad guys!!!!  All groups have done some less than desirable things I would speculate, although the Kingdom seemed to do well.)

Bob:  Not in the least.  I just don’t like Negan, the folks are probably okay.  (Is it because of Negan’s posture?)

Bitty: No. kill them all. I wish we heard more bout his time after leaving the original group. (Yes, that’s all I wanted from him is his travels from season 1 to now.  We all get the Savior’s perspectives.  Whether we agree or not is always an entirely different thing.  I would have enjoyed the opening video being of Morales’ voyage.  I could have done with one less gun fight.

Brian:  not at all. The saviors are taking people in and as long as they follow the rules they are allowed to create a home and have a successful life. Unlike the band of killers that is wandering through the countryside murdering anyone who is unlucky enough to cross their paths.  (I wish TWD would have done a fake 30 infomercial to advertise this season with Negan walking us through Sanctuary and talking about how he takes people in, like those feed the starving kids or any of the sad Sarah Mcla…… whatever her name is with the pet commercials.  That would have been such a good advertisement.)

Raylene: No that didn’t change my opinion of them but they are starting to show case that some of the Saviors are there because the choice was taken out of their hands it’s either join or die  (In a lot of cases, whether it’s said or not, whether the Saviors tell a person or group that, it is often join a group or die.  Just because they are bold enough to say it, I don’t think that’s a horrible thing.)

Kent:  No, it certainly didn’t.  I know that I am in the minority, but I still don’t think of the Saviors as the bad guys when looking at it objectively.  If anything, it further cemented my belief that if this show started off with Negan and showed us his journeys, he would be held in the same esteem as Heisenberg from Breaking Bad.

 

  1.  In the grand scheme of The Walking Dead, which character had the bigger impact: Morales or Eric?

Briana:  Morales was definitely more intense in the moment for us viewers but for the basis of the show, it would be Eric. The grief Aaron will deal with and the group’s grief. Morales was just there for a minute and then he wasn’t. (Aaron’s character arc moving forward will really be a testament to which answer is right here.  As we know, some deaths are more meaningful than others.  Poor TDog.)

Bob:  Eric.  He had air time on the show.  And culture. (Pop culture!)

Bitty: Eric had a bigger impact. Not during his life but during his death. (What a terribly lame ass death for Eric though.  He got the shaft and then he got screwed over in his zombie scene.)

Brian:  Morales. He got to Rick and showed him the errors of his ways. Eric was just a ploy to get us to think that the ricktards are kinda human. And if they truly liked Eric they would not of let him wander off. In the past the characters who meant something were not allowed to wander off.  (Okay, that is a huge point.  Nobody who mattered has ever been left to wander once bitten.  I was actually surprised it took this long for somebody to say it.)

Kristi:  Morales. Eric was boring for me. (He never got a chance to shine and his personality was laid back and whiny.)

Raylene: I have to say Morales because he had more character development in the first episodes of the show (Morales was actually kinda cool and a bad ass fighter in the few scenes we got of him.)

Kent:  Morales had more dialogue, but fueled nobody.  Eric’s death has unleashed Aaron to hopefully become the great character that he is in the comics.  Aside from Eugene, I would say that Aaron may also get a good strong story.

 

  1.  Should Maggie have let Gregory back in Hillside?

Briana:  I wouldn’t have! I’d have let him stay out and fend for himself or go back to his buddy Negan. (Would that have been better than keeping him in your line of sight?)

Bob:  Nope.

Bitty: Yes. He’s just a worm who Maggie may be able to use as a smoke screen in the future. (I don’t mind this theory.)

Brian: Yes he will be able to liberate the POWS and allow the return to their home after eradicating the evil enemy that is occupying their home.(We don’t see the word eradicating enough in this blog.  Thank you for bringing it back.)

Kristi:  No. I just cant stand him and sure as hell don’t trust him!  (boooo)    (haha)

Raylene:  Yes Maggie will make some use out of him (Like having Gregory and Jesus do entertaining 2 man shows for the Hilltop?  Sold!)

Kent:  Yes!  Gregory is surely sorry and he sounded contrite.  Let’s face it, Gregory is one of the 2-3 funniest guys on the show along with Simon and Eugene and sometimes Negan.  We NEED Gregory around as much as possible.  Gregory made me giggle a lot Sunday night and I need some levity in the midst of all the wasted ammo.  In all seriousness, how did nobody suggest that she take him in to kill him?  He’s a huge threat inside and out, so just get rid of him before he does more damage.)

 

  1.  Were you hoping that Morgan would kill the Saviors that escaped?

Briana:  Yes!! Jesus is getting on my nerves the last couple episodes. I mean that was a kick ass fight scene but Morgan was right. These people aren’t going to just assimilate to their society after they’re no longer prisoners.  (In theory I would say that your right (and I did accidentally type write the first time), but my fear is that you will take umbrage with what happens on the show in a very unrealistic way.  Hopefully I am wrong.)

Bob:  It seemed like he was going to, but I don’t like it when he is nuts.  (I love how Lennie does the performance, but I do like Morgan more when he is grounded because I feel like it makes him tougher.)

Bitty:  yes that was my thought however the fight between Jesus and Morgan was the best match up in a long time. (So I just sat here thinking about best fights in the show’s history and am kicking myself in the nuts for not asking everybody’s favorite fight scene in the show’s history.  Probably next week I will ask.  I am trying to think of good ones and the best I can think of is Rick vs Shane season 2, Rick vs Porch Dick Season 5 or 6, Glenn vs Nicholas, Michonne vs Governor, and I feel like Merle was in one or 2.  Super Daryl doesn’t count.  Also, Tyrese vs Rick and Daryl simultaneous!)

Brian:  No and I’m glad that our turncoat Jesus beat him down to save the lives of those pour souls. That are being held against their will.  (Right?  Nobody is thinking about all the families that are being torn apart by this.)

Kristi:  Yes! Do away with them. They are just going to end up being a bigger problem in the future. (You may not like where this is going.  Sheer speculation on my part.)

Raylene:  I wanted him to at least get Jared because let’s face it he’s going to cause trouble sooner than later  (I think that if they executed Jared, it would have helped keep everybody else in line.  But no, I do not want Jared dead.  He is one of the best characters on the show.)

Kent:  Absolutely!  I love the killing machine version of Morgan.  Even more so, crazy Morgan is amazing.  He snaps, and I truly admire the job that Lennie James has done with this character.  Keeping those Saviors alive is not a bargaining chip, it’s simply a liability.  I understand the endgame for when the war is over, but I wouldn’t risk it.

 

  1.  Is there any benefit to keep the Saviors alive, per Jesus’ plan?

Briana:  I mean maybe if Negan wants to make a deal for hostages but even that isn’t a big enough benefit to actually keep them. I say they went to kill them all, kill them all!  (That’s something that I feel is overlooked.  Negan would make some kind of deal to get his men back because they are the backbone of his operation, especially with so many casualties.  I hope that this gets brought up in show.  I doubt it will.)

 

Bob: 

  (Yeah, nobody is topping that response.  Fantastic.)

Bitty:  If i try to see the war from Jesus’ viewpoint maybe some of the Saviors want out. Maybe they can be used for good in the future. (Really, that is the whole crux of Jesus’ beliefs is that some people had no choice and would like to have one when ALL OUT WAR is finished.  You’re welcome AMC.)

Brian:  Of course Jesus is a plant by Negan to spy on the Ricktards. He is helping save the saviors. (I’ve got to say, that would be a stroke of genius.  A stroke of Jesus’ lovely hair.)

Raylene:  Perhaps the ones that were just the workers not the henchmen   (Soooo, how are you going to find out who was who?  Are they going to confess?)

Kent:  Yeah, so that they have characters to run the Sanctuary after the war. That’s the real answer.  In the moment, hell no.

 

  1.  Was Ezekiel too arrogant or cocky for his own good?

Briana:  Maybe but I like to think he was more just impossibly optimistic rather than cocky. It made me so sad watching all of his men jump on top of him, taking his bullets. He definitely celebrated too soon. They should have checked the building before hanging around as if it were over.  (I especially didn’t enjoy seeing the ginger dude die.  This is becoming a serious epidemic of back to back seasons with a ginger death.)

Bob:  Yeah, he rode that wave a little high.  “Not lose one of our ranks.”  Stick to victory – because by saying you won’t lose anyone, that means you lost and the mentality of your group.. Or the morale will decline.  (This felt like me saying “Not one single goal allowed to the Disciples, let’s shut em out 92-0.  Then The Disciples score the first goal and I hang my head in shame.)

Bitty: No. I don’t think he was being arrogant at all. He was playing a role. He was being a leader. He was acting. However everyone has a breaking point. (Yeah, I do believe that he was doing what he could and thought was right, especially in his role.  People can easily forget that this was just a dude who worked at a zoo a few years ago.)

Brian:  The “King” is leading his flock to slaughter. His gut knows that life was simpler when they were helping Negan and the Saviors lead a peaceful life. Now he’s in way over his head and is way past the point of no return.  (Let’s consider that.  It did seem like life was way more peaceful prior to Carol and Morgan showing up.  Is Carol playing the role of Yoko here?)

Kristi:  Nope. He has a tiger and is considered a King! He should be arrogant. (I was getting worried as you hadn’t mentioned Shiva all blog.)

Raylene:  No he was neither just very inexperienced in fighting with the Saviors  (He doesn’t strike me as a guy that ever got into more than one fight his whole life prior to the ZA.)

Kent:  Yeah, definitely arrogant and complacent. The rules of war and horror are very similar. Boasting in any capacity will get you got. Still, I love to hear him. Carol is still the smart one.

Bonus Deuce

  1.  Pick a character that doesn’t get much screen time that you would like to see or hear more of this season.

Briana:  Negan! It irritates me that he hides during most of the crazy shit that goes on! Come out coward and fight like the man you pretend to be! Lol!  (I’m all for more Negan time. I do like him though, so for me it’s without the negative connotations.)

Bob:  Simon.(YES!  We all deserve a bit more of Simon.)

Bitty:  Oceanside!! (I may have said this just to humor a certain Kball)  (Well since you did this with your boob out, I will let this slide.  Bonus points of breastfeeding!  I also dread going back to Oceanside, but I feel that it is inevitable.)

Brian:  Eugene… he knows….. he knows what Rick truly is…. Abraham told him during their many lonely nights together… he knows all…. (I agree that Eugene reads everyone incredibly well.  While I did say that this would be his season, it may not be in effect until the second half.  We need more of the Tennessee Tophat!)

Kristi:  Eugene and Negan. This season is about them taking him down. I would like to see more of them. (So you don’t want 4 more hours of gun fights?  AMC disagrees!)

Raylene:  Jadis and her people  (Well if we don’t get more of her, you can always watch The Badlands again, or The Woman, or The Exam, or I think she was in Tales From Halloween.  I really like her as an actress.)

Kent:  Dianne is my answer here.  I could go for more insight on Gavin, Tobin, and Arat.

 

  1.  With 13 remaining episodes of this season, how many of them will be these episodes with lots of gun fights that resemble an action flick?

Briana:  I would say at least ⅓-½ of them! They’ve been hyping this up to be the most action packed season in a long time so I’m holding them to it! Lol!  (It appears that they don’t intend on letting you down.)

Bob:  Ugh, too many…..  (Seriously, doesn’t it feel like the first 3 episodes has just been one long action film and not much else?)

Bitty:  We will have action episodes thru mid season. (That makes me a saaaad panda.)

Brian:  I hope that it continues to be exciting but they need to be more realistic. The gun fights seem to be designed by the left wing that believes semi automatic firearms never need reloading and each magazine holds an infinite amount of bullets. (Say what???  This is nothing new.  I present to you this gem.)

Kristi:  8. Wishful thinking here. (Yike, that worries me.)

Raylene:  4 (4 is not your friend.)

Kent:  5 is my answer.

Final Thoughts

I found this at IMDB.com.

Briana:  What’s happening with Negan and Gabriel!!!??? It’s making me crazy that they left it the way they did and haven’t gone back yet! Also, I hope Morgan doesn’t go too far! I’m pretty concerned for his well being at this point and if he wanders off for too long, he may not come back.

Bitty:  Favorite Quotes of the episode:

“Officer Friendly died right along with them” Morales

“We’re the same. Everybody turns” -Morgan

“I did not eat those pancakes!”-Gregory (Gregory was so great in that bit of his.  Also always glad to hear somebody say Officer Friendly.  I miss Merle.)

Brian:  Here are my thoughts.. Negan was distributing the blue meth on the east coast. Rick and Abraham were part of the distribution network. Ezekiel was also part the network selling to the theatre crowd and stealing animal tranquilizers. Jesus is an undercover agent who worked with the DEA to bring down Negan but has grown to realize that Negan has provided order during the chaos and is a respectable leader. Now this blue meth is the secret to stopping this virus. So the fight is on to find Jesse to save the planet. (Wasn’t Rick already boning Jessie?  Oh, wrong Jesse.  Nope, your story checks out.)

Raylene:  Where the hell is Eugene?

Kent:  I want to see Gregory with his own show or do a spin off. Something. The guy is just so damn charismatic. He’d be the perfect wrestling manager for the bad guys.  Starting next week, I hope to be getting questions from the contributors of this blog to add some dimensions to what you read. Also, if you go to IMDB, I find the pics that they are using for Ep 4 and 5 to be a tad odd.  Go there at your own risk, but it is kinda odd to say the least.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1520211/episodes?season=8

Please check us out at the actual 9 Deuce website, on Facebook at facebook.com/9deuceblog , on Twitter @official9deuce, or Instagram at Official9Deuce.  Share this, like this, write us an email with a question at kent@9deuce.com.  Thank you.

For the rest of the year, if you see this logo, click on it to go see the updated list of my 100 Horror Movies In October and beyond Marathon.

All the pictures used in this blog are for review purposes. They are the property of:

Please go find a copy and support the creators.

The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:8 Ep:2 “The Damned”

We are back to dissect “The Damned” which featured the return of the loveable…..or totally forgotten character named Morales, and lots and lots of action.   We need plot development damnit!  Today, we have a nice lineup of featured commentators, and I thank them for their time and sacrifice.  There’s a theory that every time somebody answers a question at 9Deuce.com, a spider dies.  So keep up the exxxxxcellent work.  Any comments in bold is from Kent.

The 9

  1.  Should we start fearing for Morgan’s life after he made his declaration?

Briana:  Well yeah! That was my first thought! He’s dead now bc he said he doesn’t die! Lol! Plus, it feels a little like Glen to me. Reminiscent of the dumpster maybe dead thing and then he’s not dead and then he gets killed!  (Please…..pretty please, let’s never have another dumpster incident that makes zero sense ever again.)

Bob:  No.  Morgan has a true war mentality.  You can be the most effective killer with the belief that you yourself cannot die.  (That’s just like me playing Deathrow against the Convicts….well close.)

Bitty:  I really feel like as long as Rick is alive so will Morgan be. They keep each other grounded. (Rick can’t die. It’s in Andy’s contract.

Brian:  Nope that man is a ghost living amongst the mortals.  (That was damn near poetic.)

Kristi:  I’m worried for him. Why did he have to go and say Morgan doesn’t die!?  (As I noted in my response, Andrea says something similar in the comic and it becomes somewhat of a mantra for her and Rick, so I think that’s why he said it.  I miss Eastman.)

Chris:  I’m not sure.  I like Morgan as a character.  He’s so conflicted.  I’m hoping that if he does end up dying that he finds some kind of peace.  (I don’t think Morgan gets enough credit as one of the better done characters, and of course Lennie James is a great talent.)

Raylene:  I say yes unfortunately that was a pretty bold statement to make. He lives with his demons daily and at times he was the moral compass. (Moral compasses do well in TWD.  Just look at Gabriel saving Gregory!)

Eric:  He knows his time is limited. But he doesn’t act impulsive. (I like that so many of things he does seem rationalized, like he at least thought before doing.)

Kent:  Well, in the comic, Andrea said something similar.  She lasted a hell of a lot longer than Morgan did in the comics, as he would already be gone.  So natural instincts suggest that he’s a goner at some point this season. I think he still has 1 or 2 full seasons ahead of him.  When the quiet ones come, then I will start worrying.

 

  1.  Should we start to fear for Eric’s life or will he be fine?

Briana:  Again, another one I totally expected to die in the episode. It would be really sad but that’s why it will probably happen.(We haven’t had a sad death in a while.  We are totally due!)

Bob:  Oh, dead.  Deader than dead.  He was dead at his inception of the show. (You’re right.  If you look through the history of the show, there’s been a handful of people that were instantly identifiable as one borrowed time.  I always felt that way with Noah, Dale, Bob, Otis, and so many more.  By the way, I have seen Otis in 2 things this past week: Stranger Things season 2 and The Devil’s Candy which also starred Ethan Embry who played Carter in TWD. )

Bitty: Dead. And probably Aaron too. (Aaron will be fine.  Jesus needs a man in his life unless they plan on turning Daryl’s character gay.)

Brian:  yup hes a goner.

Kristi:  He will probably live. I feel like them making seem like he will die means he is going to live.  (You and Chris are of the same mindset, which I find surprising, but I am all for something surprising to me, like the Scavengers turning.  Surprises are great!)

Chris:  I have a feeling he’s going to pull through.  This seems like one of those “Walking Dead” things where they make you think someone is going to die, only for them to miraculously survive.  Eric also needs more screen time so that people become more invested in him, otherwise his death won’t mean much.  (The odd thing is that somebody like Tobin has had more, and better screen time than Eric, who is definitely a more important character in my opinion.  Also, where the hell is Kent?  I haven’t seen him all season.)

Raylene:  I don’t think Eric is made for the combat life. Scouting may be more his thing. I think he’ll die if he has to be fighting more. (He is a better scout, but Aaron is such a better recruiter.  I wish they had done more with his character, as Chris mentioned.)

Eric:  Gut wounds are very hard to treat without modern technology.  He can bleed out very fast.  He is most likely a goner  (I know that this is an odd tie in, but there was a film in 93 called A Perfect World.  It was really good, at least to me, and had Kevin Costner and Clint Eastwood.  My point is, in the film, there is a gun shot to the belly and your comment reminded me of that.

Kent:  He dead.  This is kinda spoiler-ific, so skip to the next question if you don’t want my theory.  I won’t be offended.  In the comic, they did a scene where Abe’s woman, Holly, ended up getting caught during this assault on Sanctuary.  Negan brings her back, and she has a sack over her head.  When they remove the hood, Denise is busy patching up Heath.  Holly then bites Denise and she tends to Heath’s wound before dying.  Soooooo, with that knowledge, it is very easy to see something similar play out.  Gabriel gets returned with a bag over his head and he ends up biting somebody who is tending to Eric’s wound, let’s say and hope it is Tara.

 

  1.  Whose side were you on between Tara and Jesus?

Briana:  I hate to ever agree with Tara’s dumbass but definitely her. We’ve learned from our mistakes here people. If you go to a place to kill everyone, you kill everyone dammit!  (That was the most mean spirited reply about Tara, so you definitely got a point.)

Bob:  In this world on the show, Tara.  POWs take resources and manpower which the Axis of goodness does not have.  I would bet this is part of Negan’s plan.  Also, like any POW, you are to resist and attempt escape to keep enemy resources from being used effectively.  (I loved how you put this into some real perspective.  That is the type of critical thinking I enjoy. You are spot on here.)

Bitty:  Tara! Take them out. Anyone at an outpost is more than a “worker”. (I gotta disagree here.  I definitely feel that there are people who are simply workers because it’s that or Lucille.  Look at Oceanside…or don’t.  Fudge that place!)

Brian:  Tara.. KILL THEM ALL Jesus is too soft.  (I feel that you would be a good apocalypse companion.  I would not be.)

Kristi: I dont care for Tara but Im on her side here. Jesus is being way too emotional about this. They would have no problem taking them out. I think they need to think the same way. (Have we gotten past the whole point of having some humanity?  I would say yes, but it’s a good talking point nonetheless.)

Chris:  This is tough.  I agree with both of them in some regards.  It would seem smarter to just kill the Saviors.  (Jesus does have a valid point.  I’m actually surprised that nobody here sided with him.  )

Raylene:  I have to say I agree with Tara killing them is just the way to go  (She was good on Talking Dead though after.)

Eric: In that instance, Tara. They were there to clear the building and take no hostages.  Jesus was in the wrong and it almost got both of them killed.  (Much like Morgan, I enjoy the term clear.)

Kent:  This was the meanest thing that I have done to any of you.  I asked a question that practically forced you to agree or take Tara’s side.  Kudos to Bri for calling her a dumbass.

 

  1.  How excited are you to see Morales back?

Briana:  I wouldn’t say excited but I am definitely intrigued! It took me a minute to realize who he was and then I had to explain it to the rest of my house. He doesn’t seem to have any loyalty to the original group though so I’m interested to see where this leads.  (I also had to explain.  I wish they would elaborate on the Vatos some day, but the deleted scene in the season 2 opener did explain it.)

Bob:  I forgot about him.

Bitty:  Who? Now you know I’m not the only one who had to google him then re-watch his episode to remember him. I’m excited to hear his back story and where he’s been.

Brian:  It plays well with my point of view that Rick was a dirty cop under Negan’s control and now there maybe someone else who knows Rick’s secret.  (I really do love this theory.)

Kristi:  I have a hard time remembering characters, so I really don’t remember him.

Chris:  I’m excited, but I’m curious how many people remember him.  A friend of mine who has watched every season didn’t remember him.  I’m sure we’ll get some backstory next week.  (I really would enjoy a backstory for him and his family.  I always wished that we had gotten more stories on certain characters, and he was gone from the show before they could elaborate.  I always wanted more on Milton, Shumpert, and T Dog.)

Raylene:  Sure let’s see how this stuff plays out I am curious if it’s just him or if the wife and kids have survived.

Eric:  I was for a split second. But his actions kinda ruined it. I hope he reconsiders his turncoat ways. Though his actions do bring up the “ Rick is the villain” thought  (it’s all about perspective.  I actually don’t think that they can ever give us Negan’s backstory for fear of having too many fans empathize with him.)

Kent:  Hell yeah I was excited!  I know some of you feel that he is kinda betraying Rick, but he’s not from my perspective.  He was part of a group and knew Rick for like 3 days.  Technically, it was Shane’s group or Dale’s at the time.  Now it is Rick’s group, but at the time, Rick was just another father and husband.  We all have a certain amount of affinity towards Rick, well maybe not Brian, but that shouldn’t skew our perspective of how things played out back then.

 

  1.  Did it seem like Mara allowed that walker to just bite her without any fight whatsoeve?

Briana:  A little bit, yes. It was like she realized, they’ve won and just gave into it.

Bob:  I blame tonic immobility and panic.

Bitty:  Yes. I think she knew her jig was up.

Brian: She realized that she was caught in the trap and the only way out was to join the herd

Kristi:  It did seem like she allowed it. You see her hand kinda grab his arm, as if she is accepting it.

Chris:  I think she just didn’t see it in time.  By the time she saw it, it was already on top of her.

Raylene:  Yes she was looking around realizing what was happening I figured she’d been more alert of her surroundings  

Eric:  I think that she was so shocked with the tactic of letting her friends turn to walkers, she didn’t have proper time to react. Plus I don’t think she was a true fighter like the rest of ricks group

Kent:  I agree with most of you to varying degrees.  Some of you seem to think that it was more her giving up or accepting her fate, and others think of it was a shocked or delayed reaction due to everything happening on the spur of the moment.  I really thought that she was beyond overwhelmed mentally and she simply froze and by the time she could react, what was the point?  Almost in too deep.  I watched the death like 8 times.  Don’t judge me.

 

  1.  Is it smart to take all of these Saviors as prisoners?

Briana:  Of course not! Again, we’ve been down the prisoner road with people like them and it just doesn’t work. They are brainwashed into thinking this is how life is supposed to be now and I don’t think they can change many of them from that belief.  (Seriously, how many times have we gone down this road?  I can offer multiple instances, but aside from Michonne, Axel, the black prisoner dude who I really liked, Aaron, and Jesus, prisoners haven’t been great.  Randall comes to mind.)

Bob:  Not at all.  Tiger food.  (Shiva approves this message.)

Bitty:  Hell no. I don’t like the idea. Unless there is another plan for them. (I would be intrigued if it was a good plan.  Then I look back to the people that they took in from Woodbury and then think, wow, they are all dead!  Plans tend to fail in this show.)

Brian:  I like the idea. It gives my man Negan and his innocent people the ability to have friends behind the enemy lines.  (I am very curious about your perspective on Eugene with Negan.  We need to talk soon and have a few drinks.)

Kristi:  They should just take them out. I don’t think them having that many people that are against them around is wise. Just a big group that can plot against them. (This group should know better.  Look how well Terminus went.  They should all be dead, but Gareth and the Termites were stupid and it’s like history repeating itself, only it’s with “our group”.)

Chris:  I don’t think so.  The saviors are very dangerous and deceptive.  While they may have helpful info, I doubt they will be very sharing.  (Right?  If you were captured, honestly, you are probably a happy Savior working and obeying the rules and surviving.  Then Rick’s jerkoff group shows up and ruins everything.)

Raylene:  Nope kill them all  (Even Jared?)

Eric:  Hostages only complicate things. Anyone showing aggression needed to be put down.  These people already showed what they can do.  (How often do hostages truly help somebody?  I wish there was some statistical analysis.  If TV and films are any indication, you almost always get caught or die when you bring hostages into play.)

Kent:  Unfortunately, while there are probably some who would be happy to work towards a happy common goal, the way that this has gone down, they can’t ever trust Rick’s group.  So stab them all, no bullets because they used all of them on Negan’s windows like morons.

 

  1.  Will Jared (the long haired guy that has long antagonized people and is in Gavin’s group and used to mess with Richard) make it to the midseason finale alive?

Briana:  Well even after your description and googling him, I can’t figure out his role in all this so I’m going to say no, he won’t lol!  (Sorry, I tried my best to describe him, but I didn’t do a great job.)

Bob:  Yes, and he will even kill someone important contrary to some orders or expectations. (I can see him taking out Morgan, Diane, or even Shiva.  Boy, that would piss some people off, myself included.  I really like Diane.)

Bitty:  Are we really talking midseason finale? Didn’t this season just begin? How many episodes in this season… and no hopefully he’ll go down in next episodes walker raid. (There are 8 episodes per half season.  Two have gone past, so he has 6 more to live or die for the question.)

Kristi:  I don’t think so, but I’m often wrong so probably. (That’s pretty much my luck and thought process, so you are not alone.)

Chris:  I sure hope not.  I didn’t think he was going to live through that scene!  (I was so engaged in the show that I was convinced that he was going to get got by Morgan.  It makes more sense for him to live to be the spokesman for the hostages.)

Raylene:  Nope I don’t think he will I believe Morgan may even get the kill  (I hope so.  Morgan deserves it in a way to do it in honor of Benjamin.)

Eric:  I think he needs to go away.  He had already caused enough problems. And will only prove to be a danger in the future   (Some people just don’t deserve to live, in my opinion, and this dude really doesn’t deserve to, which is why he’s a good character I suppose.)

Kent:  Jared seems like he will get got by some unforeseen circumstances.  Not by Morgan or Ezekiel, but random walker attack.  I think when he des die, it will feel incredibly satisfying and therapeutic to most fans.

 

  1.  This was a fairly action packed episode.  Did it feel exciting for you or rather dull?

Briana:  A little of both, I get that it was intended to be exciting but it was mostly a bunch of shooting that led to no where so part of me was quite dissapointed. Loud does not equal exciting! (I agree with you.  If we knew more of Negan’s people then a shoot out is exciting.  Right now it’s like watching Han Solo shooting a bunch of nameless Storm Troopers.  We have no real reason to care about these people living or dying.)

Bob:  A second episode where I could choose to stop watching.  The hammer-cock at the end had zero effect and impact.  Anyone can disarm a guy with a gun that close, FYI. (I was wondering that same thing about the disarming.  It seemed a tad sloppy, but this wouldn’t be the first time that the show got sloppy.  Carol and Daryl in the falling ambulance is still the funniest one.)

Bitty:  I’m a fan of the action of course but looked at the clock 31minutes in and was shocked how fast the episode was going!! I hate when the episode is slow but hate when it flies by. I have trouble finding a middle of the road episode. (It went by way too fast in my opinion.  I dread checking my watch when viewing the show.)

Brian:  Dull. Rick is a basket case and will let his desire to hide his past lead him to his death at the hands of Carl.  (We really need to get you writing some TWD fan fiction.)

Kristi:  I enjoyed it. It was exciting.

Chris:  Tons of action!  It was great to see a lot of the lesser known characters get into the action. (I will say, I really did like to see some of the lesser characters get some shine, especially Eric.  I don’t like his character too much, but someone like Tobin and Francine got to shine.  Unfortunately, so did Tara.)

Raylene:  I know they have to build up the story line but I have been rather bored

Eric:  it was. I enjoyed it. I wish they were all like this.  (I think it is fair to assume that Eric enjoys action flicks.)

Kent:  I felt that this was too much action for a follow up to the action from the season premiere.  The pace is too much and not in a good way like Game of Thrones was.  With so many characters, if we are going to have action packed episodes, lots of people need to die so they don’t have to tell as many stories.  I liked it, but could go for some episodes where they do 3 different stories throughout.  That is when it flows at it’s finest.

 

  1.  Do you like it when Ezekiel is playing his king role or when he goes out of character briefly?

Briana:  It is nice to see him laid back once in a while but I think at this point, the king is who he is. I think the people we pretend to be are the people we want to be deep down. And after a certain point, it’s no longer an act. So as much as I enjoy laid back Ezekiel, Long Live The King Y’all!  (Thank you for including the y’all.  It was needed and appreciated.)

Bob:  Fake it til you Make it.  I love it!!  (That’s been Russell’s mom’s motto from the beginning.  It had to be said.)

Bitty:  LOVE IT! We immediately rewound it twice just to hear him. Team Ezekiel all the way. (Team Ezekiel?  The hell is this?  You going to say #EzekielStrong next?)

Brian:  This show is full of people playing different people to hide their pasts. I wish others would be as honest as he is. (I really loved this response and now I don’t even like my response.)

Kristi:  Both! He is the shit! What ever role he is in, I am always happy to see him on the screen. (You’re right.  He is an absolutely delight to watch.  In a show full of great acting talent, he still stands out in a positive way.)

Chris:  I like both.  Those moments when he drops his character just make him better.  He’s the best character on the show!  (I can’t argue with that.  I am still incredibly fond of a few others slightly more like Carl, Carol, and Morgan, but still, he’s in the conversation, so that speaks volumes.  I hope that h is around for a good amount of time.)

Raylene: I do enjoy when he shows both sides  (He does both in such interesting ways.)

Eric:  I like him in his “King “ role. I feel when he breaks character, it kinda ruins the fantasy he has built.  (I have been trying to figure out if he is doing it to charm Carol or if he does it because he knows that Carol sees through it.)

Kent:  I will say the King role because with that comes Jerry, and Jerry is fucking awesome.

Bonus Deuce

  1.   Will we see “Super Daryl” next week?

Briana:  Hmmm.. I hadn’t thought about it. We are definitely due for some crazy Darryl action! He’s been broken and beaten and this episode, he got a reminder of that. He will either use that to fuel the fire or retreat, in going with fuel!  (The fact that he was broken seems like the perfect thing to get him back in his Daryl groove.)

Bob:  I don’t really know what to expect.  I figure we may see some awesome escape.

Bitty:  it’s due.

Brian:  Darryl is a tool!!!  (Man, you just upset some female readers.  I salute you for that.)

Kristi:  I think Super Darryl is long gone. Ever since Beth, he just seems like a softy. Its gotten to the point that he just bugs me. ( i go back to the Daryl and Beth episode where they burned the house down as the point where Daryl lost it.  I hated that episode, still my least favorite.  I also didn’t like Beth unless she was singing some Tom Waites.)

Chris:  We haven’t had super Daryl in a bit, so it’s probably time again 😒

Raylene:  Yup we’re due for some ridiculous Daryl action

Eric:  He spent so much time being a hostage, I’m glad to see him “Back”

Kent:  It’s going to happen.  I guarandamntee it.  And if I am wrong, you will have long forgotten my stupid words.

 

  1.  Should we start fearing for Tobin’s life?

Briana:  The type of character he is, of course. He could go at any time.

Bob:  Red Shirt on borrowed time.

Bitty:  We always should fear for everyone’s life… duh it’s the apocalypse.

Brian:  I think he will stick around

Kristi:  I’m more concerned for the tiger. (As you should be.)

Chris:  I think pretty much anyone could die this season, and the lesser known ones are more likely to die.  I’m sure a main character will die at some point too.

Raylene:  Yes especially if they start giving him more screen time

Eric:  no one is safe.

Kent:  So this was just a running joke for me if I am going to be honest.  I was waiting for somebody to call me out for asking the same question 3 times.  This episode was not very deep from a story standpoint, so I had to resort to it.  The fact that all of you went along with it, I thank you.  Tobin lives the thug life.  That dude ain’t dyin’.

 

Final Thoughts

Brian:  Rick is losing control of both his mental state and the ability to clearly lead. At this point his desire to find a cure is being blinded by the need to keep his past hidden. I think he knew this virus was about to hit and feels guilty that he did nothing to stop it. Now he must live with the guilt of being the cause of this world and hide the fact that his one time boss Negan knows his secrets.

Kristi:  What’s up with the baby and why didn’t Rick take her? He’s just going to take all the adults and leave the baby? That confused me. (I’m hoping that Kent is taking care of Judith.  He seems like a good father figure.)

Raylene:  As in wrestling I’m ready for some heel turns

Eric:  All that gun fire….not a single reload. 30 round magazine going full auto will only last a few minutes. I would have like to have seen more technical work with the rifles.  (This made me laugh out loud for a bit.  It reminded me of the season 2 finale with Herschel having unlimited ammo in his shotgun.  You are very on point here.)

Kent:  Can we please get some more Eugene and Carl?  Also…….Kill Tara!!!

Please check us out at the actual 9 Deuce website, on Facebook at facebook.com/9deuceblog , on Twitter @official9deuce, or Instagram at Official9Deuce.  Share this, like this, write us an email with a question at kent@9deuce.com.  Thank you.

For the rest of the year, if you see this logo, click on it to go see the updated list of my 100 Horror Movies In October and beyond Marathon.

All the pictures used in this blog are for review purposes. They are the property of:

Please go find a copy and support the creators.

The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:8 Ep:1 “Mercy”

We get to kick off season 8 with Episode 100 called “Mercy”.  Did it live up to our own personal hype or did it fall flat like Judith’s character learning to walk?  I am joined by a plethora of people who all have very different opinions, and any comments that you see in bold are from me because apparently some people like to read my awful opinions or insults.  I truly appreciate everybody’s dedication to keeping this thing going.  Thank you.

The 9

  1.  Who gave the best opening war speech: Rick, Maggie, or Ezekiel?

Briana:  Ezekiel is always entertaining but I think Rick was the one who really inspired everyone (and then failed to follow through with anything he said… but that’s another question I’m sure lol)  (Yeah, the follow through was incredibly questionable, if not entirely disappointing in it’s own way.)

Bob:  Ezekiel.  That’s the kind of war speech I would want to hear and the kind of energy I would want to hear.  Rick’s was arrogant and prideful.  No one truly goes into a battle to die under the cause of we have already won.  People go into battle to be victorious and to actually win.  That was Ezekiel’s outlook.  (You almost convinced me.  I feel that passionate stories of Rick Grimes has spread at this point so people know what he did to Claimer Joe, so I would hope that people would just be roused by that alone.  I mean, guy with tiger is inspirational, but guy who has survived gun shots, stabbings, biting off people’s flesh, and putting down little barn girls would still win me over.)

Bitty:  Ezekiel. In the premier and the after show!!  (OK, he stole the after show.  Andy and Jeffrey were good, but Khary stole that show, no doubt.)

Chris:  Ezekiel.  

Raylene:  I would say it has to be Ezekiel.  Although this would have worked fantastic.  (If we can get him doing that shit to Negan, he would become everybody’s favorite character.)

Eric: Rick. It’s full of anger and revenge towards Neegan. (Yeah, I really enjoyed the softer spoken speech, reminded me of some Jake the Snake Roberts stuff.)

Kent:  Maggie!!!  Ha, I’m just playing.  I asked this question to illustrate something.  Ezekiel is everybody’s new play thing that seems funky fresh and so I assumed he would get some love.  I did not anticipate that 4 out of 6 people would choose him, but point illustrated.  Nobody wants to answer with the old tired play thing in Rick, but he is the right answer.  Ezekiel just had more charisma, but Rick’s felt more passionate to me, and he has more on the line.  Also, had Ezekiel given us a speech along these lines, he would have been my choice by default.

  1.  Who’s grave is Rick looking at throughout the episode?  Is Rick crying because of a death or something else perhaps?

Briana:  I assumed it was Glenn and Abe. This would only be like the second time he’s been able to visit their graves. And let’s face it, they are a big reason they’re doing this.

Bob:  I will say Maggie’s grave and the one next to her is the baby’s grave.  I think she dies during childbirth.  (I still say that she should have gotten Lucille instead of Abe.  I feel that Carol is such a better leader and would have been better in the comic role that Maggie has.  If you’re right, I will absolutely give you props.)

Bitty: I thought those were the graves of Glenn and Abraham. He is crying out of remorse.

Chris:  I’m going to say Maggie.  Obviously there’s no way to know yet.  It could have been a character who had died previously.  (Two of you going with Maggie.  Man, both of you guys have got me thinking, and i am totally digging it is that’s the case.)

Raylene:   I’m going with the obvious one and saying Father Gabe

Eric:  Those are the graves for Glen and Abraham.

Kent:  I think it is Father Gabriel’s grave.  While I see a lot of you have said Glenn and Abe, that appeared to be in Alexandria, which is not where Abe is buried, and I don’t remember about Glen.  Secondly, the stained glass above Rick I felt was indicative of church perhaps.  Thirdly, we have Gabe’s impending “Shitting his pants” doom. Finally, we don’t know the time frame of those shots, so I am passing on the Glen and Abe grave train. I felt this summed up my responses to Bri, Bitty, and Eric, and if you’re right, well you get to make sure to remind me that I am an idiot.

  1.  When the group assaulted the Sanctuary, was it smart to use all of that ammunition to prove a point?  Also, how did they not bring a sniper to take out Negan?

Briana:  Ugh! The entire point was supposed to be “only one person has to die” instead it was only one person has to talk our way out of killing that one person who has to die! Rick had so many chances to take him out and end it all. I mean I don’t necessarily hate that they shot the whole building out, but I do hate that they didn’t just kill Negan right then and there.  (It felt like the whole point of the journey was forgotten fairly quickly.  I guess that doesn’t make for great TV.)

Bob:  Killing the person Negan does not destroy the idea of Negan.  A thought is more influential and persistent than a person.  They might just start calling themselves Simon.  (I giggled at the Simon line.  While I agree with you that the idea of Negan and the Saviors is more than one person’s life, I do wonder who would take over if Negan had gotten taken out in that moment.  Let’s face it, Simon is smart but not tough, while Gavin may be slightly tougher, or at least have youth, but seems like a dumbass.  Arat was nowhere to be found, and Dwight is questionable.  Would there be too much in house fighting to determine the next leader that would enable the group to dismantle the Saviors?)

Bitty:  I was so mad they used all the ammunition!!! As soon as Negan came out i yelled at the TV “shoot him!!”. (This made my husband mad cause he’s on the Negan train) Back to bullets, if they were trying to attract walkers with the glass breaking they should’ve just lit more fires. So stupid. Why prove a point now- shoot to kill. (Because points make for better TV.  It was incomprehensibly stupid, but I am glad that Negan lives because without him, this show would be struggling.  He is the perfect counterpoint to Rick.  Also, Brian is right to be on that train.)

Chris:  I think Rick wanted to show that’s is in control now.  Plus attracting the walkers could drive the saviors from their home, giving Rick and co. an advantage.  As far as bringing a sniper, if they killed Negan in episode 1, what fun would that be?  (The lack of sniper thing drove me nuts.  I don’t want Negan to die, but if I’m Rick, I’m bringing one.  What a terrible beginning to the season that would be!)

Raylene:  All Rick seemed to do this was trying to show that he has access to bullets and they didn’t bring one because Rick is insistent on killing Negan himself.  (There you go.  Rick wants that glory kill.  He wants to be the knight in shining armor.  He wanted it with The Governor, and he didn’t get it.  He did get it with Gareth.  In his mind, he needs this to cement himself, or to do what’s right as a former sheriff.  It’s in his DNA.)

Eric:  It was a GIANT waste of ammo. But it was meant as a show of force towards Negan and his group. They had no intention of killing anyone because they didn’t assault the building.  (Isn’t it a tad baffling to want to show force when you could just have taken out 2-4 of those people up on that platform?  What scares you more: a group of 20-30 people wasting ammo and shooting windows, or that same group gunning 4 of your most influential members of your group?  It’s a weird logical fallacy that I need to stop over thinking.)

Kent:  It was simply a “who’s dick is bigger” moment.  RIck popped some viagra prior to his trip, maybe had a penis pump in the RV, I don’t know.  I hated how this scene went down.  I hate to be that guy, but the comic did it so much better.  This was absolutely frustrating.  At the very least, I was hoping that Negan had snipers.  No snipers!!  This whole thing annoyed me.

  1.  Are you mad at Father Gabriel for stopping to get Gregory?  Can Gregory show his face at the Hilltop ever again?

Briana:  I’m not mad at Gabriel bc that’s who he is. He’s the father and the friend to all. He’s selfless and assumes the rest of the world will show the same compassion he does. It’s never ever true for the poor guy but he’s consistent! I’m assuming at the moment no one will know it’s his fault Gabriel didn’t make it out so unfortunately no one has a reason to not have him show his face around.

Bob:  No, that is who Gabriel is.  I can’t imagine Gregory failing to show up at the Hilltop again. I think Gregory will assume Gabriel dies, which he might.  It could end up an interesting scenario.  I wonder if the show will “forget” about Gabriel for an end of season reveal. (Midseason finale sounds about right.)

Bitty:  Season 8 and I still can’t stand Father Gabriel. He’s a liability. Has been, is now and will be again. Gregory will get killed before he makes it back to Hilltop.

Chris: Not mad at Father Gabriel, it’s in his nature to help.  I think he’s still wanting to atone for what he did to his parishioners at his church.  Gregory can probably still go back to hilltop.  No one will know that he betrayed Gabriel and he is arrogant enough.

Raylene:  I’m not mad that’s just who Father is I think he still carries around the guilt of locking his congregation out of the church. So when he hears a cry for help he just can’t leave them behind.  Gregory can try to show his face at Hilltop but I believe he’ll get the boot

Eric: Gregory is a coward Father Gabriel should have known that.

Kent:  I question how Gabriel’s character has been done.  A lot of you are saying that it’s in his nature, but there have been plenty of times that isn’t necessarily true.  He’s an incredibly complicated character.  He’s got the guilt thing going, but he also tried to get Rick thrown out of Alexandria, he was a sniveling coward.  He did eventually man up and decide to stop being a little bitch.  Last season, Gabe was one of the best done characters who would do work.  I am mad at him.  I love Gregory and you all know this, but he didn’t deserve Gabe’s kindness.  Gabe is Judith’s official babysitter, so not happy, and I’m going to sit here with my arms crossed and pout.

  1.  Out of every character in the show, who do you feel has the biggest axe to grind with Negan?

Briana:  Either Maggie or Daryl. They took Maggie’s remaining family from her and Daryl still blames himself for Glenn plus all the torture stuff they put him through. (Daryl is an interesting choice because he’s gotta deal with the consequences of his actions for the rest of his life.  So he’s a really good candidate because although he will blame himself, if it wasn’t for the lineup, none of that happens.)

Bob:  Maggie.  Dwight is absolutely the wrong answer. Dwight chose to go back most likely knowing full well what would occur.  He made that choice and that is on him.  Maggie’s husband and father of her child was murdered by Negan. That’s plenty of axe.

Bitty:  Tough question!! I’d like to say Maggie however my mind goes to Dwight. We haven’t known him long enough but he has a huge axe to to grind with Negan. Dwight has been mentally and physically abused by Negan for all we know, years. Negan abused his wife, raped her in the sense of the deal. Banished him, humiliated him and just keeps him around for a working dog. Dwight has a similar character story now to that of Carol in Season 1.  Battered, abused and ready for revenge. (Woah woah woah, let’s not throw around the word rape.  A deal’s a deal, even if it’s with a dirty dealer.  She chose to be Negan’s wife rather than work.  That is on her.  The same applies to Dwight.  He’s had opportunities, even more so than Sherry, and continues to back the wrong horse, or at least did, and he allowed it.  He’s a fucking Lifetime movie.  The only axe Dwight should grind is with Sherry and himself.)  

Raylene:  I would say Rick he has lost many of his people, his supplies, his dignity(but not his hair) (Ernie Tetrault approves this message.)

Eric:  It’s a toss up between Rick and Maggie. Maggie because of the death of Glenn. Rick because of the mental trauma Negan put him through when he almost made him cut Carl’s hand off.

Kent:  I must admit, I didn’t anticipate or consider anybody choosing Maggie, and I am baffled by all of you.  I expected some Rick and Dwight, maybe a Daryl, but no Maggie.  Obviously, I choose Carl.  Carl has been used as this pawn, or bargaining chip, in this war in some ways.  Negan wanted his hand cut, then he was a second away from bashing in his skull.  Negan has humiliated his father at times.  I’d also say that Ezekiel got no love despite him basically taking on the role of Benjamin’s father.  Where’s his love?

  1.  Why were Carol and Tara hiding from the walkers early in the episode on the overpass?

Briana:  So they wouldn’t distract them and set them off course and then also get themselves eaten.

Bob:  They didn’t want to walkers to stop walking.

Bitty:  They were timing the herd. Also to look at the flowers.

Chris:  They didn’t want to create a distraction.  

Raylene:  Perhaps they didn’t want them to stop or turn back around I really don’t know

Eric:  They were timing how long it took the walkers to move as a group.

Kent:  It still doesn’t make sense to me.  I get the timing aspect, but hiding from them when they can’t just magically get up there, it just struck me as weird.  The walkers are more likely to sense them via scent or sound, not sight.

  1.  Did you enjoy old man Rick’s look?  Save the spoilers for a different blog, please.

Briana:  Ew no! Haha! That hair cut and beard were not doing it for me! Being old doesn’t mean you automatically have to have a flat top and curled under beard lol!  (The flat top was an interesting…..and borderline awful choice, but comedic too.)

Bob:  I guess it was interesting.  His face looked the same, Michonne had no changes… (Black don’t crack, so no surprise there.)

Bitty:  I hated how his beard got so fluffy. Poor choice. (No love for fluffy beards?  Anybody who has a fluffy beard and would like to give Bitty your feedback, please send your comments to Kent@9deuce.com and I will deliver them to her.  You have a voice, use it and let her know that fluffy beard shaming is not acceptable.)

Raylene:  I didn’t like the short hair

Eric:  Yeah

Kent:  Like Eric, I dig it.  It’s a different look.  Quite frankly, I wish it was more of a buzz cut though.  I feel it would have looked more bad ass and a shout out to Shane.

  1.  Did Carl do the right thing in leaving the cans of food or should he have kept them for himself or his group?

Briana:  I think it was the right thing. They didn’t get where they are by being Negan’s group. They got here by being the people who brought in new people and helped others. That’s who they should stay.  (Yeah, you said it better than I did, so well done.)

Bob:  Yup, like Gabriel saving Gregory, this is who Carl is.  His group will be fine, let’s not forget all those MREs they found.  (Let’s never forget the MRE’s or the DRE’s.)

Bitty:  Leaving the cans was different for Carl’s character. I think at the beginning of season 7 he would’ve shot on site and said eff it and never gone back. Now he has a sense of responsibility and leadership. He has almost a hopeful sense about him. (Carl is one of my favorites because I love his character’s arc more than just about anybody else’s, aside from Carol.)

Chris:  Yeah he did the right thing.  He hasn’t lost his humanity.  (Has Rick lost his humanity do you think?)

Raylene:  Yeah I think he did the right thing now that they are not giving half the stuff to Negan.  (Not losing half of their stuff really does help.)

Eric:  Yeah I guess, what’s a few cans of food when food is scarce  (Yeah, I think at this point, Alexandria has some to spare in the short term, and better to make an ally than an enemy.)

Kent:  I liked the gesture.  Way back in season 4 I think (maybe late 3) when Carl was protecting Herschel and shot that one kid from Woodbury, and that’s who Carl was then.  Carl has now had a chance to see various types of leaders and he is starting to come into his own.  Rick has to be trigger happy in his mind because he doesn’t want to get fooled again. Carl knows the food situation and he knows at some point, there has to be something more, some kindness or whatever or what’s the point for him and Judith.

  1.  Were you disappointed at the lack of Scavengers (Jadis’ group) considering how last season left things?

Briana:  Nah. They served a purpose and that purpose is over as far as I’m concerned. No sleep lost over them.  (The group debuted in episode #92, so I have to love them.)

Bob:  No, I don’t mind the human planet of the apes characters from being missing from anything!  (This is all I have)

Bitty:  I didn’t miss the Scavengers. However I would’ve liked to see the Oceanside women come out to defend the honor of their lost men and boys. (I feel that you intentionally brought up Oceanside just to get a rise out of me.  Consider me risen.  Wait, that doesn’t sound right.  Aroused?  No, that’s not it either.  Hmmm, job well done.)

Chris: I wasn’t disappointed.  I think there will be a few episode arc where Rick and co. go after them.  It will be a good way to split the season up a little. (They gotta split things up because hardly anybody got any shine in this episode really.)

Raylene:  I think we will see them soon they are still working with Negan I imagine

Eric:  it’s a big world. maybe they will show up again.  (They will be back.  I need more Pollyanna on my screen.  Also, she’s in a film on NetFlix called The Blood Lands.  I don’t recommend it.  Very disappointed.)

Kent:  Apparently I liked this group more than others.  Yeah, I was pissed because I was hoping that they would surround Rick’s group or be set up as snipers so Negan could walk out as care free.  I felt like they were the missing element to that entire showdown.  

Bonus Deuce

  1.  Had you ever heard Weird Al’s “Another One Rides The Bus” prior to this episode?

Briana:  Probably but if so it was when I was a little kid so I don’t remember.

Bob:  yes.

Bitty:  No

Chris:  Yep.  Weird Al 4 life!

Raylene: Yes

Eric:  yes. Weird Al is the best.

Kent:  Well I am happy to see that most of you have at the very least.  If you are having a bad day, just put on some Weird Al and it makes things slightly better.

  1.  For episode #100, did this feel right, or did you expect something bigger or a big death of some sort?

Briana:  I didn’t even realize it was episode 100 so yes it should have been bigger!  (Right?  It didn’t feel like a big event to me.)

Bob:  I was definitely expecting bigger and better.  This would be an easy episode to simply stop watching the show.  Nothing is really compelling.  (Nothing really compelling.  For a season opener and #100, it was somewhat of a dud.  Not a bad episode, but compared to other season openers, say 2, 3, 5, and 7, this was bland.)

Bitty:  I liked all the Easter Eggs to previous episodes. I liked the speed and seeing all of the core cast in action. I liked the shielded cars. I liked seeing the different ways of killing the guards at the outposts. Everyone was involved in someway. And I loved…. “THE HILLTOP STANDS WITH MAGGIE!!!” (Okay, in all fairness, Carol seeing the flower made me happy.  I miss Lizzie a lot.  That girl was awesome.)

Chris:  I guess I’m in the minority but I loved it.  It seems like everyone expects something “big” in every episode.  The show has never really been like that.  All out war has started, and Gabriel is in big trouble.  Can’t wait to see what happens next week.  (Also loved all the scenes that payed homage to season 1.)  (The episode for me is an average TWD episode, it wasn’t bad at all, minus the ammunition thing, but the show has spoiled us with great premieres, and this didn’t have that same vibe, at least for me.)

Raylene:  I felt it was lackluster  I was expecting a few major deaths or plot twists (M Night Sham is disappointed at the lack of tweets.)

Eric:  Episode did move slower than I would have liked. But you can’t blow your wad right out of the box. Where are they gonna go if they kill Negan in the first episode.  (Negan isn’t going to die, same as Rick or Carl aren’t going to die.  It hurts the product in some capacity that certain characters are put in situations that we know they will overcome.  The show is at it’s best when expendable characters are put in bad situations.)

Kent:  Season 2 premiere gave us the highway herd, Sophia going missing, and Otis shooting Carl.  Season 3 premier gave us that amazing first scene where you see how the group has become a great machine in how they scavenge and find the prison.  Season 5 premiere gave us the escape from Terminus and Carol cementing herself as the baddest lady on TV.  Season 7 premiere was the infamous lineup.  This premiere doesn’t top any of those, so yeah, i was a little let down.  Then you add the fact that it was #100 and, well you expect more.  To take it one step further, they had this set up in the comics and it results in 2 deaths, so knowing that put a damper on this for me.

Final Thoughts

Bitty:  I would like the action to continue. I would like to see Negan on the ground at Maggie’s feet and I’d like to see Rosita die.

Raylene:  I am hoping to see the Whispers possibly the season finale

Eric:  I am interested to see where this season goes. The story line of the kingdom and Rick.  Hopefully it doesn’t suck.

Kent:  One episode down, yay!  If you want to answer any questions that I posed, leave a comment on this blog.  I’d love to actually get comments on one of these blogs someday.  That would be amazing.

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The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:7 Ep:16 – All Out War Begins Edition

I know, I know.  This isn’t April.  We’re in October and I am finally posting this.  What gives?  The truth of the matter is simple.  I gave a little extra time for people to finish this and then I forgot to post it.  By the time I remembered, it was like 3 or 4 weeks after the episode aired, and it felt odd to do it.  So I held onto this, in shame because it’s embarrassing to have such a terrible memory.  Bob even asked me about it in the spring or summer, and the decision was made to hold off until TWD returned, so here we are, Sunday October 22, 2017.  I’m looking forward to this season, and I hope to get most of my old group back along with some new people, if anybody wants to join in.  Thank you for reading, and please share this because I need hits.  Seriously, I need hits.

In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related.  Please note all messages in bold are written by me.

 

  1.  When you think about the season finale episode, what is the happiest moment for you?

Bob:  I am not going to deny it.  The tiger jumping in when we thought Carl’s head was about to be bashed in.  They did a good job of making me forget all about HT and TK.  Kudos for the pleasant shock.  (It was like a superhero just diving in for the save.  It was very comic book style save, which was needed.)

Bitty: Happiest moment for me was the beginning of the battle. Negan’s lines and the entrance of Ezekiel.  (Ezekiel coming in, just gets teh adrenaline pumping every time I watch this.)

Kristi:  Zombie Sasha!!!!! I was hoping she would be the first walker to have some sort of memory and only attack Negan’s crew.  (I think the only time that they really hinted towards a possible memory would be Merle seeing Daryl.  I think it was just the way that it was filmed.  If you think back to season 1 and how Dr Jenner explained things, they shouldn’t have any memory…in theory.)

Chris:  My happiest moment was Rick’s response to Negan when he was going to kill Carl.  He wasn’t going to be afraid of Negan anymore.  (Exactly.  It was the perfect arc from the opening episode with the lineup to that moment.  It was very well done.)

Kent:  OK, I had 2.  For sheer happiness, Carl not getting killed.  I will offer a different perspective.  My other choice is when the explosion didn’t go off.  Think about how that moment changed the whole episode and added a crazy amount of layer.  Anything that keeps us guessing as viewers is happiness for me.

 

  1.  What was the biggest “uh oh” moment for you in this week’s episode?  Whether it was sad, or surprising, pretty much not a happy moment candidate.

Bob:  When Rosita’s bomb did not trigger.  I went from thinking​, gee that’s embarrassing to ohhhh nooooo!  (Rick’s face summed up everybody’s feelings in that moment.)

Bitty:  Biggest uh oh moment would have been the opening sequence. Sasha in the dark, sweating, mumbling and moving.  (Yeah, closed dark spaces are terrifying, yet it was done so well.)

Kristi:  When the Scavengers turned the guns on The Alexandrians. I was not expecting that!  (Yeah, I don’t recall anybody speculating that one.  It was a really solid twist.)

Chris:  When Jadis pulled a gun on Rick.  The bomb not going off was bad, but the garbage group turning could have been the final nail in the coffin. (The doomsday snowball just got bigger and bigger by the second.)

Kent:  Negan getting that close to Carl and needing to prove a point.  Every moment above me is a good answer.  

 

  1.  Do you think that Negan believes Eugene’s explanation for Sasha’s death?

Bob:  Not at all.  I don’t believe Negan knows what to think.  He can’t believe Eugene had the fortitude to try anything against him, so he is left in a quandary.  (Eugene is actually forcing Negan’s hand, which is an interesting turn of events.)

Bitty:  No way. Negan doesn’t want to believe that Eugene would lie to him because he is useful to Negan.

Kristi:  Not even a little bit  

Chris:  No, but he also doesn’t have a good explanation for it.  I give bonus points to Eugene for making it sound convincing.  (The dude can think on his feet.  I am looking forward to Eugene’s arc in season 8.  I think it will be the best single person’s arc this coming season.)

Kent:  Doubt it, but I guess it’s not entirely implausible.  Negan has a lot of shit on his mind.  If this was his only thing to dwell on, I think things would be different.  Of course, Negan won’t say anything until Eugene teaches them how to make bullets.  Why hasn’t that process begun?  That is the whole reason that Eugene is there.  Seriously.

 

  1.  Which betrayal was worse: The Scavengers or Eugene’s in the eyes of Rick?

Bob:  The Scavengers.  It was 9 times worse than 2 Eugene betrayals.  (Well, that’s a bonus point.  You picked a great spot for it.)  The tactical loss of half your forces (more…) and then to have them against you… That’s really terrible and would make many lose heart.

Bitty:  The betrayal of the Scavengers was way worse in the eyes of Rick. This is as more than half the army and as Rick has learned people grow and change and move on.

Kristi:  Eugene, he was part of Rick’s team. After hearing the, I will lay with him comment from the Garbage chic, I don’t think he fully trusted them.

Chris:  The Scavengers.  I think he was disappointed in Eugene, but they all know he’s a coward.  When Eugene said “I am Negan” Rick looked less shocked and more like a disappointed parent.  (Haha, he did have that “Now son, your mother and I are very disappointed in you.  Go to your room and think about what you have done” look going for him.)

Kent:  The Scavengers was worse.  The thing with Eugene is like this thing that Rick knows how to solve 5 moves down the road.  Losing the Scavengers just ruined all their hard work. Losing those guns was crippling.  Rick’s group never properly utilized Eugene so it’s just not that big of a deal in this moment.

 

  1.  Out of all of the characters that are still alive, which one do you think has come close to death the most amount of times since the Zombie Apocalypse started?  Lots of options to choose from, and Rick may not be the right choice, so think on it.

Bob:  Very tough here.  Frankly, the person needs screentime for knowns threats on their life. I want to pick Carl in the worst way.  Then there is Daryl and Morgan.  Carl it is.  Two gun shots, multiple Negan encounters and some zombie contact.  I found myself feeling like Carl was going to die much more often than Morgan.  Daryl is a close second for me.

Bitty: Carl wins for me as coming close to death at the hands of a HUMANS.   (At the hands of human, I think you are correct.)

Kristi:  Carl. I’m sorry but he is not a smart kid. Badass, maybe, but his lack of common sense would have gotten him killed long ago.  (What’s more important in this world, being smart or bad ass?  You still want to think smart, but bad ass gets you far at the very least.)

Chris:  I want to pick Carl, but Rick has “almost” been killed on many occasions.  I’m pretty sure Rick has almost died every season, while Carl was pretty safe in season 1.  Season 2 he did almost die, but Rick was in trouble at least 3 times.  Carl is catching up though….

Kent:  Had I included dead people, I wonder if anybody would have chosen Glenn.  This is all sheer speculation.  Take somebody like Negan who appears to only like melee weapons in a world in which guns had to have been pointed at him numerous times.  On his rise to power, other people had to have tried taking him out.  Daryl has been in some trouble, but I would say Morgan had it tougher.  We have no idea how many close calls Carol had when Rick exiled her.  At the end of the day, we do know the vast majority of things that have happened to Rick and Carl.  Carl got the Otis bullet, the Ron bullet, was damn close to getting butt raped by one of Joe’s claimers, almost got got by the walker that killed Dale in season 2, and he wandered the prison quite a bit on his own accord.  Then along comes Negan.  Rick has been injured more, has been in close proximity to walkers far more frequently than Carl.  If we are to believe that walkers were a threat the first 5 season minimum, I gotta say Rick.

 

  1.  Aside from Sasha, which one character’s life did you fear for most?  Basically, who did you think was going to get killed, but managed to stay alive?  

Bob:  Carl.  I was sure he was dead in that scene with his father and Negan.

Bitty: I was thinking we would lose Ezekiel so Carol would rise to the top. Or even Morgan. I was worried he’d go rogue in battle and lose everything.   (I keep waiting for Morgan to die so I can be really pissed off, but he keeps on keeping on.  I’m going to say that he dies this season in a bit of reverse psychology.)

Kristi:  That crazy head scavenger chic, I don’t remember names. I was really looking forward to her demise.  (I love Polly, the actress.  I think her time is up in season 8.)

Chris:  Honestly, I can’t think of anyone.  I didn’t think Carl was going to die.  They did a good job of teasing Michonne, but it’s not her time yet.  (Do you think Michonne makes it to the end of the series?  I am not so sure after what happened in the comics, and to any readers, just to let you know, Michonne is still alive in the comics, so that is not a spoiler.)

Kent:  If you have read any of my blogs, you know the answer.  So Tara aside, I am going to go with Morgan.  I’m really surprised that they didn’t kill a major character here.  If you think that is a slight to Sasha, you’re damn right it is.  Really, has she been that great of a character?  I liked her with Bob, that was the high point for her.  

 

  1.  This episode had a lot of points in which they dug up past memories (Abraham, Glenn, the original lineup with Rick and Carl, etc).  What memories from the past came up most prominent for you?

Bob:  All of Abraham’s witty remarks from the past. I discovered I really missed him on the show.  It was really nice to see him…. (Abe was that perfect role where he was most effective having funny one liners without taking away anybody’s else’s shine.)

Bitty: The speech at the end by Maggie made me miss Glenn and Dale.  (I still don’t miss Glenn.  The dumpster thing ruined it for me unfortunately.  I did like Dale because he was the polar opposite character who also had valid points, even if I disagreed with him.)

Kristi:  At the end when Maggie was talking about their journey. The mention of the farm reminded me of Hershel. It pulled at my heart strings a bit.  (Honestly, if I could bring back any characters, Herschel would be right there with Abe, Merle, Tyrese, and T Dog.)

Chris:  The end with Maggie talking about Glenn.  It was very powerful and a fitting way to end the season.  (The only thing I didn’t necessarily like about it, was the placement of it after so much momentum.  It was that slow moment, that was needed, but it changed the mood of an exciting episode.)

Kent:  Abe, obviously Abe.  I do not find myself missing Glenn in the least bit, and if Maggie could just go away, even better.  Abe was such a huge loss on this show and if I had asked who would have made this season better by being alive, you know damn well the answer would have been Abe.  Why?  Because he’s funny and charming.  Glenn would have continued his downward spiral into boredom. I thought that I would be the only one to mention Herschel, but Kristi proved me wrong.  I miss that dude so much.  I would trade anybody on this show for Abe and Herschel aside from Carl, Eugene, Rick, Morgan, Carol, and Negan.  Yes, I would even put Simon and Gregory up for grabs to get Herschel and Abe back, or even Merle.

 

  1.  Realistically, are you at all disappointed that more characters didn’t die during this episode?  If so, who?  Basically, this is where I make fun of Tara.

Bob:  I think the season should have just been Tarasode Part Deux. Or Deuce. And have her live, Sasha, Rosita and Maggie die.  Why not? We aren’t communists, that’s why not.  To answer your question I think a lot of red shirts died this episode.  Why didn’t Aaron’s boyfriend die? But I am happy with a lot of main characters not dying on the show at this point.  (I am guaranteeing that Aaron’s boyfriend, Eric, dies this week, mainly because his name is Eric.  Rosita has at least one more season in her, and Maggie is in the same vein as Rich, Carl and Eugene as untouchable.)  I like that they tried adding value to Rosita’s character.)

Bitty:  I’m disappointed that Dwight didn’t get killed and I thought it would’ve been great to have Rosita by the mouth of Sasha.  (You’re going to like Dwight some day.  Just accept it.  Just like you have to accept that David Ortiz was on PED’s and cheated.)

Kristi:  Yes, I expected more to die. I had a pretty good feeling that Sasha was out from the beginning. I was, absolutely, expecting another more devastating death. Sasha was sad but she wasn]t as close to everyone so I don’t think it will effect the group.  (It felt like we needed one more big death, especially with how Sasha’s was foretold and how she was never truly a big character.)

Chris:  Not really.  Main characters don’t always have to die.  Besides, I have a feeling plenty will die next season (please let Gregory go first!!!)  (Booo Chris boooo.  Gregory is so great, haha.  He’s going to die this season, no doubt.)

Kent:  Of course I am.  We have too many people that we need to give time to every season and it dillutes the product a bit in my opinion. Kill off Eric to make Aaron more interesting.  Kill off Tara to make me happy.  Kill off Daryl to give us a big death at the end.  Really, Daryl has become kind of bland.  I need Enid to have a bigger role moving forward.  I need Kent to stay alive.  They killed too many of Ezekiel’s people, leaving only Jerry as a big hit to the actual fans.  They need to provide more people on the Hilltop for us to care about before they die.  This is why more death won’t hurt because one of the best things about TWD is how they create and give stories about characters.  Hell, even Denise had a good story in such a limited time frame, or Olivia.  In order to provide us with more of these stories, some heads need to roll.  Starting with Tara.

 

  1.  Last week, I asked you all if you felt that this would end on a high note or a low note.  Now that you have seen it, do you feel that it ended on a high or low note?  I know some of you want to be like “Welll, this was kinda sad, but this got me pretty psyched” to which I will write to you and tell you just choose which one you felt was more prevalent.  

Bob:  I said a low note with a crescendo.  So I feel I was right.  Sasha died, Eugene is Negan, Scavengers are haters.  Rick restated his promise. (We don’t get the word crescendo enough in this blog.  I am putting in an order for 15% more crescendo this coming season.)

Bitty:  I stand by what I said last week. Epic battle scenes, some characters we lose but in the end leaving us hopeful for the new season. (So you feel hopeful?  Sucker!)

Kristi:  High note, Did you see the Tiger!!! That was it for me. I ended the episode feeling empowered for the group.  (Haha, I look forward to any animal related comments from you in any blog that can integrate them.)

Chris:  A high note for sure.  They had the Saviors reeling for the first time.  It’s going to be an epic battle.  (Okay, so knowing what is going to happen due to common sense and the comic notwithstanding, I didn’t view it as the Saviors reeling.  They got even more weapons now.  But they did retreat to recoup, so I can see that perspective.  I am excited either way.)

Kent:  I gotta say low note.  Maybe that is the eternal optimist in me that is a mute.  They had their biggest army turn on them and take the guns.  How is that not a low note?  Because the 3 heads of the communities are together? This was definitely some Empire Strikes Back stuff right here.  If you don’t fully get that whole reference, I pity you and your choices in movies throughout your entire life.  The highs were totally outweighed by the lows.  Carl almost got got, aiight?  That almost happened.  Eugene is back in black.    Maggie’s hair still looks awful.  Seriously, I can’t be the only person that thinks this.

 

Bonus Deuce

  1.  Looking back on season 7 in totality, do you consider it a good, bad, or neutral season compared to previous seasons?

Bob:  Neutral.  Thanks for not making me pick good or bad. (Anytime Hoss, except for those times when I only offer 2 options like a jerk.)  Why is Negan not being someone we love to hate?  Instead it’s like “oh he has a small penis.”. He is a coward and pulls the South Park move of having certain people in front to die. (Operation Human Shield, and I shall not finish the rest of that particular reference, haha.)

Bitty: Season 7 was up and down for me. The most intense episode I ever watched was the Lucille episode but I found myself missing Carol  a lot. I also missed seeing Rick’s group on the move with a purpose.  (I like a purpose as well.  You nailed it.  Carol is my favorite female on TV, so I always want more of her.)

Kristi:  Bad, I had high hopes for this season. In my opinion, there were 3 episodes that were decent. The first, last, and the one one that Morgan killed for the first time again. The rest could have been summed up much quicker to give more time for some walker killing. I’m ready to go back to fighting those ugly bastards.  (You may struggle a bit in season 8, or maybe not, as I know you don’t like Gregory.  With that being said, season 9 is so going to be for you.)

Chris:  It was ok.  I think most people wanted more action, especially after the first episode.  They did a great job laying the groundwork for all out war.  (This was the necessary evil for fans to truly enjoy this upcoming season, you are so right.)

Kent:  It was better than 5 & 6 in a lot of ways, at least for me.  Negan really made stuff interesting again.  With such a huge group of characters to follow, I do feel that it hurt viewers on a week to week scale, but to binge watch it, they may not have been as bothered.  It is probably the 4th or 5th best season out of the 7.  I’m more pro than con.  That opening episode was one of the single most memorable episodes of anything on TV ever.  That has to count for something.

 

  1.  What one question do you hope gets answered at some point during season 8?

Bob:  is Negan going to get it in a satisfying manner or will it be unfortunate happenstance?  (Neither, he’s going to live on, he’s going to survive, and I’m going to quote Bill Pullman.)

Bitty:  Where the hell is Gregory???  (I hope that is answered in the opening scene of season 8.)

Kristi:  I am ready to see what Eugene has up his sleeve. I’m curious to see if he and Dwight have joined up to go against Negan.  (Uhmmmm, you may like this season after all…..Yeah)

Chris:  What is Eugene really up to?  (He is on the verge of having his best season yet…I hope.  Gotta respect the hair game.)

Kent:  I’m curious how a potential time skip occurs in the show, if it even happens.  This is strictly based on the comics, so it may not happen.  

 

Final Thoughts

Bob:  I give answers with stunning clarity of thought because I use my wife’s product line of all natural Posh Products.  I use the Hunka Chunk soap.  https://www.perfectlyposh.com/ShanaDugan

(I use Posh quite a bit, and although some stuff is pricey, I can say that their lotions don’t have that greasy feeling, and their chunk bars are solid.  Also, those healing sticks are great for parents, or so I have heard.  I highly recommend trying it out and blame me if you are unsatisfied.) 

Bitty:  As you all know by now I don’t read the comics so I love living in the world of not knowing what will happen next and who certain characters are and where they have been. I find it entertaining to look at Wiki Character profiles and think about them as a person. I also record and watch Talking Dead. This past season I found myself fast forwarding most of the episodes to get to the sneak peak.  (Talking Dead has had some very weak episode, BUT the Eugene and Lil Jon episode was the best episode I think.  So funny.  Bring them back, please!  More Yvette too!)

Kent:  I am grateful for everybody contributing throughout the years.  I am excited for the next season.  I know that this show is a popular punching bag, and I get it.  The thing is that most shows are the same old shit with a few twists and turns.  The fact that people are so stupid to not understand that concept is absolutely hilarious.  Same goes for Game of Thrones, The Office, Sons of Anarchy, The Sopranos, MASH, The Cosby Show, Married With Children, and so on.  This isn’t a new concept, so to those people, go watch something else and find some peace with it so I can enjoy my show.  Also, if you really think that Negan is dying in season 8, just know that you are wrong.

Please check us out at the actual 9 Deuce website, on Facebook at facebook.com/9deuceblog , on Twitter @official9deuce, or Instagram at Official9Deuce.  Share this, like this, write us an email with a question at kent@9deuce.com.  Thank you.

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#139 Cigarette Burns (2005)

Yes, I am cheating a bit by doing a Masters Of Horror Film as they are only 55-60 minutes long. BUT, this is one of the creepiest things out there this decade. It stars Norman Reedus who obviously is Daryl Dixon in The Walking Dead. Yup, I am watching a movie each of the Dixon brothers. This is directed by one of the biggest names in horror, Mr John Carpenter, you know the guy who directed The Thing, Halloween, Vampires, Christine, The Fog, amongst others. Yeah, good lineage.

Kirby, Norman Reedus, is tasked by a rich gentleman to track down a copy of a film that is thought to no longer exist as it got destroyed after only it’s initial viewing in a theater. Oh, and the rich guy has what appears to be angels wings hanging on his wall, and some poor guy chained up and his back has 2 spots where aforementioned wings were probably clipped. This movie is dark. Hey, and we have a pair of boobs. Sweet! I forgot about those lovelies. I am going to pay attention, and come back when it wraps up, then see American Horror Story’s season 4 premiere.

After watching it, there’s probably a bunch of different interpretations of it. What I got out of it was that this film that kirby was tasked with finding, although it ended up with violent outbursts, it wasn’t just about violence. I took it that the angel had what happened to him to give people a way out of the things that truly haunt them. Not really redemption, but a way out. Would the holiest of holy people have had such dark visions? I would love to know that answer. I took it that the film only appealed to an audience that was actively seeking it for various purposes, but mainly because something in life was haunting them from their past. And that’s a neat thing to consider. It has a hint of the Telltale heart in it in that regard. Of course, I could be way off base.

I would recommend this to most anybody, providing they can handle the violence and can come in with an open mind. I’ve seen this 4-5 times now. Each time, I walk away appreciating the story. I would give it a solid 7.3 because it’s really damn good. I’m not sure if it would have been better served with a longer run time or not. I think I would have liked 10-15 more minutes to be honest. Still, I do think a lot of you may like this.

Breasts Total updated

51 Bare breasts

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The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:7 Ep:15 – The Wasted Explosives Edition

Welcome everybody to the only TWD blog that thinks that having a tiger makes you a good leader, The Walking Dead 9 Deuce.  Every week, I say positive things, because how else are you supposed to sell yourself to an audience, right?  Sometimes though, there just isn’t enough substance from the episode, or perhaps I ask terrible questions, or maybe I am short on contributors that week.  My point is that it’s tough for me to try to find a way to truly differentiate to an audience when we have a really great edition, but I truly believe this is easily, one of the 3 best ones that this site has ever done, and I’m really happy with it.  Of course, I’m an ego maniac, so oftentimes, I feel that this blog may need my touch.  This week, I feel that if I didn’t add a single comment and just asked the questions, the responses were good enough to absolutely carry this.  That’s awesome from my perspective.  I’m thrilled when I am part of a project where I feel it’s great enough without my contributions, that it can stand on it’s own.  So I just really want to give a heartfelt thank you to everybody who reads this, but especially to my people that take time each week to do this thing.  They don’t get paid, they just do it to help me out.  So thank you so much Briana, Bob, Bitty, Teddy, Cece, Kristi, and Chris.  No matter what ridiculous things I say to them in the comments, they keep on keeping on.

This is a super busy weekend for me, thanks to Wrestlemania as well as this being the season finale weekend.  Please, if you like wrestling or know somebody who happens to like it, let people know that this blog exists.  Finally, I have some exciting news.  Starting this month, we are going to start a new monthly blog.  It may end up being more frequent, depending on who wants to join in, but for now, it’s like a horror movie of the month blog feature.  It’s very similar to this, where I’ll ask my 9 questions and 2 bonus ones at the end.  For April 2017, we will be watching one of the all time greatest horror flicks, Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining.  If you don’t own it, it is available on NetFlix.  If you, or somebody that you know is a horror fan and likes to express themselves, send them my way. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter  @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce.  Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else.  If you would like to participate, let me know.  The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits.  Please note all messages in bold are written by me.  Thank you and please enjoy this blog and enjoy Sunday’s season finale.

 

  1.  If you could change any one aspect of this particular episode, what would you change, or would you keep it as is?

Briana:  I would have wanted the Oceanside women to follow instead of just letting them take their guns and sitting back waiting for our guys to do all the work for them.  (So this seemed to be the most popular nitpick of this episode, so this also goes for Teddy and Chris’ comments as well.  TWD tries it’s best to be a relatively “progressive” show with strong female characters.  I was very surprised by this.  I was hoping that they would so Negan could kill some of the more annoying ones, but that’s because I’m a jerk.)

Bob:  Gregory failing to kill a walker.  No matter the value of this scene, I feel Gregory had a chance to work his way toward becoming a Gregor Clegane Instead of a Greg Heffley.  (Strong start here for Bob.  My love for Gregor Clegane knows no bounds.  Greg Heffley, for those who don’t know the reference is not like the Hefty brand garbage bags, but is instead wimpy, wimpy, wimpy.  Gregory basically pulled a pro wrestling heel move when the good guy is like “We don’t have to wait until this Sunday, we can do this right here in (insert current city’s name)!  Then the heel would pretend like he was going to step up, but then run away like a coward.)

Bitty:  I would’ve changed how timid Enid was. I want to see her stronger and more outgoing. Yes she held her own gun and did well but I want her to start shining more. (Remember when there was all that buzz around Enid being with the Wolves?  Yeah, me neither.  Enid is a cool character and since she’s not in the comic, I hope they make her a better character than Sophia is in the books.  She’s going to be tough to do after the war, I feel, but if they get rid of some of these lesser characters, then hopefully they make her awesome.)

Teddy:  I wish Oceanside would help honestly, but I understand their fear.

Cece:  The episode, although some action, moved very slowly. I’m not sure how it could have improved but it was a bit boring.  (I was expecting more than one person to say this.  It was painfully plodding at times.  I’m all for great, slow burning storytelling, but this type of episode, along with the Richonne episode and the OG Oceanside episode were just placeholder episodes.  They knew where they wanted to end the season, what pivotal scene, and realized that they had to stretch things out.  In my opinion, more time could have been spent with the Scavengers, their backstory, an update on Sherry’s whereabouts, and Heath’s story.  Also, any time spent at the Kingdom is time well spent, or seeing more Hilltop stuff.  You may not agree with my choices, but I think most people would agree that time could have been spent wiser this season to tell better or different stories.)

Kristi:  I was really hoping the walker would have killed Gregory.  (Man, you really hate this man.  That’s awesome.  I feel the same about Tara.  I’m curious which one of us will get our wish first.  I think I have worst odds as Gregory is seemingly on borrowed time, whereas Tara is a wild card.)

Chris:  Oceanside would have joined team Rick.  I hope they still do at some point.

Kent:  Tara would have been shot, at least 92 times.

 

  1.  Do you think Negan really wants Sasha to be a member of the Saviors or to simply use her in some way to get back at Rick?

Briana:  Maybe a little of both. But mostly to get back at Rick. Having her join in the first place helps him mess with Rick but I assume there’s a grander plan afoot.  (Nice, I think that is the first time that the term afoot has been used in this blog space.  You’re right, just having Sasha in any capacity, whether she is held against her will or as a potential Savior, would mess with Rick.)

Bob:  I am thinking this is just psychological torture.  Negan does not need Sasha other than to hurt Rick.  Negan knows Sasha will not become a Savior.  And Negan is making Sasha feel like she has power and she has NONE. (Good point about manipulating her to think that she has some choice or power.  Negan played it really well.  I am suspicious if he had anybody keeping tabs on Eugene to see where his loyalty lies.  It would only make sense, but it wasn’t something that they showed us.)

Bitty: Negan just wants to use Sasha as a bargaining chip in the end. Negan is not stupid and knows a smart strong woman when he sees one. (I don’t know if I would call her smart.  I mean, she ran into Sanctuary like a crazy bitch.  She is strong.  Arat on the other hand….)

Teddy:  Negan likes badass women, he likes to wed said badass women.  (I’m just saying, if Sasha went and joined the Saviors and had Negan’s baby, I would be really happy.)

Cece: It’s always about getting back at Rick and the gang.  (Isn’t it kinda silly to think that is the picture that they have painted for us?  We, the fans, obviously know the threat level of Rick’s posse, but I am trying to think on a bigger scale, does Negan really sit there and worry about F’ing with Rick?  Negan is in a pretty good place, I don’t know if he should be all that worried.  Obviously, this is a TV show so the good guys have to win, but if you try to consider the reality of it, I don’t think Negan would care.  If he did, he would have just killed the threat.  Maybe I am overthinking this.  OK, no maybe about it, but I’m trying to think outside of the show’s scope.)

Kristi:  He is a smart guy. I don’t think he believes she will truly join me. He will try to use her to get intel on Rick but I think she will choose death before that happens. (Yeah, that is also interesting.  We know the group branched off to different places, but what does Negan really know?  I think it is safe to assume that Negan is still under the impression that everybody from the infamous lineup are still together, which by and large they are, but still, it’s something that I wondered.)

Chris:  It’s hard to say with Negan.  Probably both?  He loves breaking people down.  He probably likes Sasha for the same reasons he likes Daryl.  (I’m glad that you brought that up.  I was wondering what Negan saw in Sasha.  Like, he knows that Daryl was an emotional bad ass.  He doesn’t know much about Sasha other than she infiltrated Sanctuary and gunned down  some people.  He doesn’t know that she is a hell of  a sniper.  I am curious if he seems similar potential in her as he saw in Daryl or not.)

Kent:  I say that he doesn’t see any potential in her being a Savior.  First of all, he didn’t play her any Easy Street, which pisses me off.  That alone is a solid reason.  He’s not trying to break her in the way that he did with Daryl and assuredly others.  The other thing that I considered is that there is no rhyme or reason for Negan to ever trust her to be a Savior.  She came in guns ablazing.  He can’t trust that, he’s not dumb enough to do that.  With Daryl, he saw similar emotional weakness that Dwight exhibited, and thought that he may be able to break him and build up a loyal servant.  They are 2 very different scenarios.  One last thing that I feel like bringing up is Sasha’s selfish ways.  Everybody gives Rosita shit but Sasha gets a free pass.  Why?  They are very similar situations.  Rosita got Olivia killed and Eugene captured.  Sasha got herself captured, and is going to result in 2 deaths, most likely.  On top of that, she may have just royally screwed over Eugene, because I theorize that somebody saw Eugene hand Sasha the baggie.  So why is Sasha being given a free pass?  Because she’s more likable than Rosita to the masses.  Sasha not killing herself after her failure and then trying to persuade Eugene was a bitch move.  It has to be acknowledged.

 

  1.  Was it wise to leave Oceanside with no guns?

Briana:  Not for Oceanside. It doesn’t hurt our guys at all but it definitely leaves them vulnerable. But I think they had a choice. If they didn’t want to be left completely without guns, they could have just gone with them and helped fight. Then they wouldn’t be gunless lol.  (I really enjoyed your logic, and it made me think of this quote from an all time great film, Reservoir Dogs.  “Yeah, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. I told ’em not to touch the alarm… but they touched it. If they hadn’t done what I told ’em not to do, they’d still be alive.”)

Bob:  Alexandrians didn’t leave Oceanside with no guns – they left with all of their guns! 🤣 OMGosh This is the world they live in.  Remember, if you aren’t with a group you are against them. So leaving any guns with Oceanside is an endorsement of failing to follow the group and, “OH YEAH!” drink the koolaid!  (Really, you just had to go there. To go back like 15 years and say “oh no you didn’t”.  The whole theory that if you aren’t with them, then you’re against them is pretty spot on, or the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  It does make me wonder how everything settles down between communities after the impending war is over.  Also, kudos for Kool Aid references.)

Bitty:  The majority of the guns were locked up!! So yeh take the ones that were in the shed but leave them with the one s on their person. This way of some of the Oceanside members changed their mind and came to fight with Rick they would be armed.  (As pointed out in this blog, I think there is some sentiment that had Oceanside been left with some of their guns, the Alexandrians and Jesus run the risk of retaliation.  Really, what they did was a pretty F’d up thing to do to the Oceanside community.)

Teddy:  Well depends, if they truly want out of the fight then that would be the best thing. However if the Saviors find out they helped them then they fucked themselves.  (Am I the only person that finds this whole Oceanside community thing a tad contrived?  We sometimes talk about the organization of the Saviors.  Like, shouldn’t they have been hunted down from the very beginning?  If you’re Oceanside, at this point, I say that you feel pretty good all things considered.  If Oceanside is discovered, they are pretty much boned no matter what.)

Cece:  Not really. They could have taken a few and it would still have been fine. Anyone against The Saviors is best.  (In a fair and just world, perhaps, but would you really chance it if you are Rick, and leave Oceanside with some weapons?)

Kristi:  Didn’t she say to take the guns? I think I missed something here.  (Good chance of it, but honestly, it’s not terribly high on the importance scale, so you’re fine.)

Chris:  Probably not, but Alexandria needed the guns.  If they don’t take the guns, the Saviors kill everyone anyways.  (That’s really the gist of it all.  Oceanside with guns won’t stop the Saviors, zero chance.  Rick’s group is something higher than a zero chance, so it makes sense.)

Kent:  I enjoy how there are slight variations on how people took the question.  Some looked at more from Oceanside’s perspective and others took it from Alexandria’s.  It wasn’t intended that way, but I am glad that it did.  I still question whether they should have simply slaughtered the Oceanside folks.  If they aren’t going to be involved in the war, what purpose do they serve for storyline purposes?  Or why not consider the option of bringing them to the Kingdom?  If the Saviors never come into the Kingdom, then they should be fine.  Hey, if it’s good enough for Daryl Dixon, it’s good enough for Oceanside.

 

  1.  Why did the Alexandrians waste those explosives for this takeover?

Briana:  In order to do it without hurting anyone. They knew these people were as much victims to the Saviors as they are, if not more so. So this wasn’t about doing damage, just getting what they needed. The explosive worked perfectly for that.  (Isn’t it a tad hypocritical of the group, or moreso the writers, when they sometimes show the group as willing to do anything by any means necessary to survive, and then other times, go great lengths to avoid killing an innocent?  Like, they were very cool with the idea of not only killing all of the people in that outpost, but then to still take supplies from Hilltop.  Total dick move, but it was a worthwhile risk.  The writers really manipulate the fans to suit the show’s needs.)

Bob:  Pomp and Circumstance.  They saved all the lives of OS but also showed power and strength in hopes of having them join them.  It was a way of showing them how Ill prepared they were for any attack, especially from Negan.  (If you could include Pomp and Circumstance in next week’s season finale blog, I would be very appreciative.  It always gets me to watch Macho Man videos.  Good point on showing them how ill prepared they were.  I like that take, and now wish to proclaim that I came up with it first, but I shall not.)

Bitty:  I think there are more explosives. And at this point if the Alexandrians don’t know how to make them they shouldn’t be alive in the apocalypse. (This is a Tale of 2 Kitties, I mean Tale of 2 Answers.  I am 100% behind you, but like not too close, regarding your first statement.  The second part though, it took me aback.  Is this required knowledge for the apocalypse?  Now you have me wondering just how ill prepared I am for the ZA.  I gotta start learning how to make explosives.  I was totally looking forward to the ZA, but now you have shaken my confidence.)

Teddy:  Scare tactics. Best way to put down people already scared.  (I just really liked this answer.  That is all.)

Cece:  They wanted to make sure they had their attention. Not too sure they really NEEDED to use them. I think they could have ambushed or something and it would have been the same.  (You are the only person here that really potentially questioned if they needed to use them, so you get a point.  Well Bob kind of alluded to it, but he got me sidetracked.)

Chris:  It was either that, or they would have wasted an enormous amount of bullets.  The explosives were able to create a distraction, which allows Rick and co. to catch everyone without having to kill.  (I hate the fact that I agree with your point regarding wasting bullets because that means that there is a hole in my argument.  Thanks, I don’t even know you, but thanks.  Haha.)

Kent:  I hate this question because it hurts my head.  First of all, they didn’t have Rosita, the explosives expert with them, so there’s a fail.  There is no reason that they couldn’t have gone in and taken the group out like they did at the outpost, and saved the explosives for an actual threat.  This was stupid theatrics at it’s finest so people can have an explosion.  Terrible.

 

  1.  Why didn’t anybody, aside from Natania (The leader), “rise up” against the Alexandrians, especially when the walkers started coming toward them?

Briana:  I think most of them know they can’t continue this type of life forever. Everyone wants some sort of normalcy and they’ll never have that really unless they can break away from this hiding and killing everything that moves mentality. Alexandria is their way out of this lifestyle and revenge for their families lost. Natania is stubborn and probably the one who came up with the plan to hide away in the first place.  (2 things.  1. In the ZA, half of that phrase is apocalypse, so I have never understood why people think that they can just survive the apocalypse.  That’s a heavy word, yet we all think about it.  2. Isn’t it a shame that Natania and Gregory may never meet?  Both of them think of themselves incredibly highly, and responsible for keeping their respective groups alive.  I want 9 minutes and 2 seconds of them just having a sitdown negotiation.)

Bob:  Most of OS is done rising up.  They have no Eye of the Tiger ferocity with their current living in fear.  OR maybe they are all tired of having their periods the same days every month and we’re in the midst of that cycle except menopausal Natania. (True story, I read this and legitimately raised my hands and shoulders up a bit acknowledging that there is nothing that I can add to this perfect answer.  I was very impressed.)

Bitty: Oceanside is a group of women whose men were torn away from them. When they see a group of strong men and woman they will naturally gravitate towards them. Maybe the leader, Natania, had a different story. Maybe she wanted to rid herself of her man. (Ohhhhh, I like that too.  Maybe she was in a Carol-esque relationship.  Thinking outside the box.)

Teddy:  They probably saw them as they saw the Saviors? Could’ve triggered some ptsd issues.  (Good call.  That seems perfectly reasonable.)

Cece:  I’m not sure. I honestly think they’re just used to their own way of living. And of course the walkers are everyone’s common enemy.  (To comment on the walkers, I have heard whispers that the walkers aren’t everyone’s common enemy.  Sorry, I had to.)

Kristi:  They are tired of giving in to the Saviors. They are considering joining Rick and the crew to f some stuff up 🙂  (I know that you are very particular about your music, so I apologize if this song doesn’t meet your lofty standards, but I instantly started singing in when I read your response.)

 

Chris:  I think because most of them agreed and want to fight the Saviors.   (Really, out of all of the communities, they seem to have the lousiest day to day living conditions, and I think that’s gotta be a factor.)

Kent:  Man, everybody is killing it with the responses this week, and I am sitting here thinking, nah, I have nothing to really offer.  I was going to say that she seemed like a woman who has had a hard knock life, much like that ginger orphan.  I didn’t have a backstory, and then what Bitty said made a lot of sense.  I picture her as never really having a voice pre-apocalypse, and now that she has some power, she doesn’t want to relinquish it.  The rest of the OC, I mean OS have nothing to really lose in joining Alexandria’s cause, all things considered.

 

  1.  Sooooo, do you still think Eugene has some master plan or are you starting to believe that he is Negan?

Briana:  Yep he’s just the coward we all thought he was and he’s just trying to save himself and join the team he assumes will win. With the Saviors he has comfort and respect he didn’t have in Alexandria.  (I tend not to be combative with you, but does playing it smart really equate to being a coward?  He saw what “bravery” got Abraham and Daryl, and sure it fit their characters and some people may have respected Abe more, but Eugene is alive.  Brave and smart tend not to go hand in hand as often as we would like to see it I suppose, but I think there is some bravery in playing this game that he is currently.)

Bob:  The show wants us to believe that Eugene is Negan.  This episode convinced me he is not just because we are due for a surprise.  Eugene is just mapping everything out in his head and Sasha’s attack puts her (yes, her) life at risk.  She isn’t part of the plan.  She is the π that has no end point and fouls up Eugene’s algorithm.(Man, I love Pi.There’s an interesting movie directed by Darren Aronofsky, who has gone on to make some amazing films.  I agree, Sasha screwed herself and Eugene would be wise to not alter course on his plan.)

Bitty:  I wish we saw more of Eugene inside the walls. If we saw more of his story I could speculate better. I am still hopeful Eugene will help Rick in the finale. (I am pro more Eugene.  Aside from Gabriel, I don’t think there is a character that developed as much as Eugene did this season so far.  Rosita is in that discussion as well.  I still think that he has a hell of a story yet to tell.)

Teddy: I still believe he is smart, but I still believe he is chicken shit at times. (Sure, he is chicken shit.  Wouldn’t you be if you had his physical capabilities and the knowledge of your limitations?  I would, and I have no shame in that.)

Cece:  I think he is probably going to end up on Negan’s side. Someone from Alexandria will probably have to pry him from there because he seems too scared to try anything slick.  (ohhhh, we have somebody who thinks that he is on Negan’s side.  This is exciting.  I like getting some opposing views, and quite frankly, if he is Negan, doesn’t that make this whole story infinitely more interesting than the expected “face turn” for him?  I love the story that the comic tells, and knowing that the war must end at some point, I would rather have an alive Eugene than a dead one, BUT there is something to be said for a truly great bad guy.  I still miss The Governor.  I root to see Simon and Gregory every week.  Hell, I want to see more Gavin and Dwight.  Eugene turning heel, that’s Hogan joining the NWO back in the 90’s level.  A guy who became underappreciated and said screw it, if I can’t get the recognition that I feel that I deserve, I’m gonna do me.  I should also note that Cece and Teddy has helped me out for Wrestlemania weekend, so just saying, check that shit out.)

Kristi:  I still think he has something up his sleeve.  (Fortunately, he always seems to have sleeves while in Sanctuary.)

Chris:  I hate to say it, but he is unequivocally Negan.  (Oh shit, we got 2 people on board this Negan train.  Exciting!  I wish I knew more about you personally so I could integrate some kind of joke or reference, but I don’t, and I just feel that an Annakin reference is too simple.  Feel free to tell me what things you are into so that I can attempt to do better.)

Kent:  Hell naw.  He is playing this the only way that he can at this moment if he hopes to live a better life than Oceanside ladies.  Plus, this is really helping to build up his confidence.  I know that people’s perspective of him is somewhat of a coward, Bri and others have said so.  I question if it has more to do with confidence.  Less confident people shy away from certain tasks or obligations, and tend to fall in line more. He’s definitely an introvert, and I fully believe that he says things in hopes of not being asked to talk too much  I really would love to sit down and simply analyze Eugene’s psyche at some point.

 

  1.  Soooooo, do you still think that Gregory lacks the testicular fortitude to pay a visit to Sanctuary?  Everybody here said that he was lacking in that department.

Briana:  I definitely think he’s lacking balls in a major way but do I think that’s going to keep him from paying Negan a visit? Nope! He’s planning to head there now! However, I don’t think it’s going to be a bravery trip. I think he’s going there to throw himself at their mercy and, like Eugene, join the “winning side”. Probably even sell Maggie and the rest of them out.  (I like everything that you said, and yet, I start singing Sell Out by Reel Big Fish.  I listen to music while doing this for hours.  I gotta say, you paint an interesting picture that I can totally see playing out, and I would enjoy that.  True story, Little RIchard’s “Lucille” just came on.  This song has become so much cooler thanks to Negan.)

Bob:  He is going and is going to report some stuff.  I am not convinced the show has us on equal timelines between communities.  (Ding ding ding.  The show plays with our minds on the time frame of events  How much time has really passed since the infamous lineup?  We know that Rick and Michonne spent some time.  Has this season played out over the course of a week or a month?  I think that it is smart to not let us know, in the same way that it’s smart to not give us a definitive map.)

Bitty:  Gregory needs to get chained to the fence in Negan’s courtyard. (This isn’t Black Snake Moan, but if Samuel L Jackson showed up for just one episode, or even Timberlake or Ricci, I’d be down with that.)

Teddy:  Gregory is still a bitch. Negan does not like that shit. Remember what happened to Spencer.  (This isn’t really related, but I gotta say, it is nice to have somebody use similar language that I use on a day to day basis.  I think the Spencer incident was meant to actually serve as some foreshadowing, or a pre-cursor.)

Cece:  He would never go out of his way to get there. Hell no. He’s a total pussy and obviously doesn’t even know how to kill a walker, let alone some evil dudes at The Sanctuary.  (While I concur, despite me trying to argue for Gregory every week, you make me really wonder about something.  Like, what is he really hoping to say to Negan, or what is he hoping to get out of the deal?  If we take the Spencer incident out of mind for a moment, I have only one real idea.  In his mind, he thinks that his loyalty has value, but he’s not considering the fallout of asking for help, or looking weaker than normal.  Negan appears to prefer to work with stronger willed leaders who have the respect of their respective group.  It seems like Gregory should know that, but maybe I am over thinking it.)

Kristi:  He can’t even kill a walker. He is testicular-less.. He really just needs to go away.  (I think part of me keeps asking Gregory questions just to see your responses.  It’s almost a guilty pleasure.  Yeah, you can flip me off for that.)

Chris:  I think he will feel like he has no choice.  He has already lost his people to Maggie.  He will do whatever it takes (besides doing any of the dirty work himself) to be the leader.  (Well I wish I had read your response before I typed my response to Cece, but it goes hand in hand.  So I will pose the same question to you, is Gregory truly that oblivious to what Negan looks for, or would you say that he knows, but he is a last ditch desperation act?)

Kent:  I told you that he would go.  I got tons of hate mail for saying it.  I was right.  (Okay, I didn’t get any hate mail.  Nobody even really acknowledges that my answers exist, so it’s cool.  I just want to reiterate, as Gregory would, that I was right.)

 

  1.  Do you think that Dwight will betray the Alexandrians before this is all done?

Briana:  I don’t know. As much as I can’t trust Dwight, I also think he really does want to be out from under Negan. I think he wants his wife back and his identity back. So I do think his intentions are true as of right now but it is incredibly possible he will betray them at some point for something.  (You just gave the most American response possible.  You said one thing, but left enough room for the other possibility to occur.  It reminds me of South Park’s 100th episode.  I think it was called “I’m a Little Bit Country” and was the 4th episode of season 7…I think.  You’re right, in this moment, his intentions are true.)

Bob:  With the limits already set in the show, no.  Dwight said he wanted Negan dead.  He means Negan, not communal Negan.  That is his only word.  Anything else is up for grabs and free will, so no, he will not be “betraying” the Alexandrians.  (Sometimes your responses make me have to reread my initial question to see how thoroughly you deciphered it.  I really like that.  When I hear the term “free will” it reminds me of The Devil’s Advocate with Keanu and Pacino.  Oh and Charlize Theron at her pinnacle of hotness, plus the dude who played Coach, Craig T Nelson. A young Heather Matarozzo, the girl in the very beginning, who is a cool actress.  My favorite person in it though is the incomparable, Jeffrey Jones.  That guy has been in so many great things and he kills it every time.)

Bitty:  Yes. He will want to help the Alexandrians and will for a bit but as soon as he comes face to face with Negan he will crawl back to him.  (I’m actually surprised that you’re the only one that said this in particular.  We have seen Dwight crawl back in various ways in the past, so why would this be any different?  More importantly, how dumb would the Alexandrians have to be in order to trust this guy? )

Teddy: Meta gaming: yes. How this is playing out: I still see it being too soon for Dwight’s babyface flip   (I wanted to provide a more modern day, well done face turn.  The thing is, face turns, by and large, are not done well nowadays.  I have been sitting here, scratching my bald head trying to come up with a really good one.  The best I have is The Shield turning on HHH and Evolution 3 years ago.  I don’t know whether to feel bad that I am forgetting some good recent ones, or if WWE has simply took the joy out of a face turn.  Jericho had his turn, but it wasn’t in that organic way of the 80’s and 90’s.)

Cece:  From what it seems like, yes. I believe he’s still sour from what Negan has done to him and I believe he wants to truly be a good person. (This applies to you, Kristi, and Chris.  Why now?  That’s the only real question on my mind.  Is it simply due to Sherry running away, or what he had to do in regards to Dr. Carson?  I get that everybody has a threshold.  I hope that we get a bit more on the why in the finale.)

Kristi:  No, I think he is tired of Negan’s crap.

Chris:  Hopefully not, but Dwight is kind of a wildcard.  I think his wanting Negan dead will keep him loyal to Rick.

Kent:  I want to say, I was watching some of the TWD marathon on Saturday night, and I was watching the Carl episode.  I realized, and I fully believe that it was intentional, but Sherry is, from my perspective, by far the hottest of Negan’s wives.  I know that it’s obviously a matter of taste and whatnot, but really, Sherry is a knockout comparatively.  I feel that they did this so that a typical man would see a hot chick and somehow pull even more for Dwight to get the hot chick back.  Seriously, this is the kind of analysis that I offer.  Dwight will appear to betray the group because Daryl needs something for next season, and I think that will be his main crux.  Also, are we led to believe that Dwight landed that hot of a chick?  Just putting that out there.

 

  1.  Everybody seems to love Ezekiel and loathe Gregory.  People have said that Gregory is useless and that he is a coward.  Is there a double standard here between the 2 guys?  Please explain.

Briana:  No. I think Gregory has proven himself to be a coward. Ezekiel will do what needs to be done to protect his group even if he doesn’t always make the right choices right away. Gregory would give up anyone anytime to save himself. I’m actually not sure whatsoever how he became their leader.  (Well, I think that brings up an excellent point.  Why craft a character like Gregory, but then never give us a few flashbacks of his story so that we can see how he rose to power?  It would provide us with a better understanding, and maybe some appreciation.  Who knows?  Maybe he was a good leader initially until some things went so far awry that it changed him.  Maybe he was a sneaky conniving coward from day one.    I wish they would give us that info.  Either way, it would make his story far more interesting.  Currently, he’s been represented as very one dimensional, which is a shame.  Even with the Governor, you may not have liked his tactics, but you can see why he did what he did.)

Bob:  Kent.  Ezekiel has a cool name and a Tiger and has witticisms written all over the place.  Gregory has his name and a nice house.  Both are being driven to act.  Each group has what they have, but The Kingdom HAS this far kept the Saviors from entering it’s walls.  Gregory has been abused and abused.  There isn’t a double standard unless you root for the sisters of the poor.  (OK, so I had to look up sisters of the poor, because I am not a worldly man.  Really, you had me at cool name and a tiger, but then the sisters thing really sealed the deal.)

Bitty:  We haven’t seen Gregory do anything productive. His people didn’t know how to protect themselves and they just serve the Saviors. However, Ezekiel is a strong leader and seems to always be in the public eye. He has an “army” who is willing to fight, he goes out on runs and he is just a better leader all around. (I really love your point about how Ezekiel appears more often in the public eye.  Once again, that is shown to make us draw some conclusions as to his character.  That’s a really good point.)

Teddy:  Ezekiel goes out and gets shit done. He works with the Saviors but does not bow down. Ezekiel cares about his “subjects”, Gregory just wants to pee on everything.  (Back to the peeing on things!  We have continuity.  To go with what I said to Bri, I would have liked to see how the initial meetings with Negan went with both the Kingdom and Hilltop.  It would have helped serve the characters better.  Maybe just never make Oceanside episodes and give us a more thorough explanation.  More heads being bashed in to piss off the snowflakes of the world.)

Cece:  I say they are definitely not the same person because, whereas Gregory just talks with the Saviors, Ezekiel would be the type to actually get out into the action himself. Difference between a ‘boss’ and a leader. (As it’s my job to give people a hard time, I counter that by saying that Ezekiel goes outside of town like an obedient server and greets his masters.  Gregory actually pulls a show of power and actually waits for them to come to him.  Yes, we know that it’s all just for show, but is there really a difference?  

Kristi:  Ezekiel is awesome and has a tiger. Enough said.  (See Bob, I told you this is all that you had to write.  Kristi gets it.)

Chris:  A little bit.  They both give in to the Saviors, but at least Gregory is upfront about it.  However, Ezekiel stands with his people and doesn’t just look out for himself.  (I think that this is the most reasonable response.  I would go so far as to say, most arguments against Gregory are really lacking in substance because you can offer examples of Ezekiel doing something similar.  The one big difference, once again, aside from the tiger, cool name, and witticisms, is how Ezekiel has been shown to care for his people and Gregory is fine if any of his people die, as long as he doesn’t. )

Kent:  Of course there’s a double standard.  One has a tiger and the other doesn’t, so everybody is like “Ohhhh Kent, look at the tiger, look at the tiger.  Did you see that f’n tiger?” and I’m always like “Mom, stop swearing.  Yes, I can see the fake tiger in all of it’s fake glory.”  Ezekiel has the benefit of his rule being silly, which people gravitate towards in a series that is so serious.  Ezekiel has a kingdom, a throne, and a Jerry.  Gregory has a Jesus.  While Bitches love Jesus, I think Jerry is actually more beloved, at this moment, especially since the cobbler incident.  I will leave you with this thought, and although it doesn’t prove me right, I just want you to consider it.  Switch Gregory and Ezekiel’s locations.  Gregory runs The Kingdom, has a tiger and a Jerry.  He has the same deal, meeting The Saviors outside of the walls, and he acts like a king.  Ezekiel stays at Barrington house, doesn’t have the option to meet the Saviors outside of the gates because a member of the Hilltop pissed off the Saviors originally, and they now insist on coming in.  That’s not unreasonable in any way, all it takes is one Spencer or Rosita.  Who do you really side with?  Yeah, you may find that your allegiance is more towards the tiger and Jerry.  Just something to actually spend 30 seconds considering before absolutely dismissing me, which I know the vast majority of you are doing at this moment.

 

Bonus Deuce

 

  1.  Bold prediction time!  Do you think anybody is going to die next week?  If so, who you got getting got?

Briana:  Someone has to die. It’s the season finale! The obvious answer they want us to think is Sasha but I get the feeling her sob story to Eugene wasn’t real. I don’t think she actually was trying to kill herself so much as find a way to defend herself to escape. It feels like Tara’s time has been coming for a while but I don’t think we are that lucky haha. So I’m going to go with Eugene and Dwight.  

Bob:  Sasha seems like the best pick.  

Bitty:  Season Finale means death to some. Most likely Sasha and Ezekiel.

Teddy:  Given the fact Sasha is on a new show, I say it’s her. Gregory will die but he isn’t a character, period. More like a flea.

Cece:  I hope it’s Gregory. And I know for a fact Sasha should be going very soon too.

Kristi:  Since this past week was mostly about Tara growing a pair and Sasha, I definitely think it will be one of those 2. I’m thinking Tara.

Chris:  I think Sasha is definitely a goner!  In a swerve I’m also going to say that…… Simon bites the dust (I hope not though…..  At least not yet.)

Kent:  I don’t want to comment too much on anybody’s prediction because it would be like me telling you that your lotto numbers are really smart and beautiful or that they are dumb and ugly.  Wait, yeah I do want to say one thing.  Bitty, really, Ezekiel?  OK, I also wanna give props to Bri and Kristi for predicting Tara’s death.  That’s an easy way to gain street cred.  I’m seeing some that I think are way off, some that actually intrigue me, like Simon, and I hope that Chris is wrong.  Oh, and somebody picked Ezekiel……really Bitty?

TWD tends to give lesser characters more screen time when they are close to death.  Well, that leads us to Sasha, Rosita, Gabriel, Morgan, and Tara.  Sasha is a goner, in my opinion, as soon as I heard that she got a role on Star Trek.  I haven’t read any spoilers, so I don’t know, but I would bet my hairline on her death.  I can tell you that I suspect a walker to kill somebody, and comic fans know where I am getting that theory from.  Alas, the character who got the death that I am speculating on was Denise, so that’s not happening.  I think that Rosita is safe, especially if Sasha dies, as it’s a way to remember Abe.  Morgan is such a great talent, and he just got his swagger back, so I think that would be a huge mistake on the writer’s part.  We don’t need somebody that tier (Rick, Carl, Maggie, Daryl, Carol, Morgan, Eugene, and Michonne) to die.  That leaves me with Gabe or Tara, so normally I would say “Who’s been the bigger moral compass?”  Tara doesn’t exist in the comic, and Gabriel lasts much longer in the comic, but his role is really small, and his death was really pathetic and almost an afterthought, so the comics don’t help.  With the groups appearing to being on the verge of uniting, we don’t need eleventeen moral compasses.  Tara’s death would include her apologizing to Rick for not telling him sooner about the guns and maybe make a Denise reference.  We lost 2 dudes in the premiere, we then lost Olivia, Spencer, Ben, and Richard, along with the great Fat Joey.  The show can afford another female loss, so I am going with my heart and my hopes and my dreams, and predicting Tara.  I am also predicting that it will be so sappy that when I ask you if her death made you sad, and somebody says yes, I will furrow my non-existent eyebrows.

 

  1.  Will the season end on a high note or a low note?  

Briana:  I think it’s going to be a cliffhanger but I’d say high note if there is a note.

Bob:  Can I just say they had better not do some nonsense like they did last season, making everyone wait for something.  It will be a low note with a crescendoe.

Bitty:  They better not end with a damn cliffhanger!!! I freakin will flip. A low note with the destruction of the Saviors, deaths of a few good guys but the last 2 min will be hopeful.

Teddy:  It’s too soon for Negan’s downfall so it’s gonna be a low note. Hopefully it won’t be the cliffhanger like the fucking bat scene

Cece:  I think it will end again on a very low note. It will be sad and/or depressing. Which, usually has us all wondering.

Kristi:  It will end at the beginning of the so called War. Im sure we will have a solid cliffhanger until next season.

Chris:  I think It will end on a high note as we get ready for war!  Rick will start with the upper hand, but how will Negan respond?  (John Doe has the upper hand.  Hopefully you get the reference.)

Kent:  Maaaan, reading these comments, it’s like the writers and producers may have soured people on cliffhangers.  I find it surprising.  It’s almost like they abused the Hell out of the cliffhanger privilege last season with Glenn’s magic act, Daryl not being affected by the gun shot fade away, and oh yeah, that finale where people felt incredibly insulted after all of the other Teasers (at least one of you will get that joke).  To put it bluntly, they cannot afford to sour their audience any more as ratings have been an issue, so they need to cater to us and give us something in the finale.  That also means that killing a beloved character wouldn’t be terribly wise.  Sasha and Tara have fans, well Sasha does, and I have read a lot of positive comments on Tara’s boobs.  The thing is, I dislike her so much that I have oddly never even checked  her out in that capacity, which is really strange for me.  The loathing is real.  This will end on a sour note  The midseason finale ended with the gang together and fans rejoiced.  This whole build up has been Rick preparing for war.  The theme has been Rise Up.  Rick now has guns and things are looking really good for Rick at the moment.  Obviously, that’s not going to last.  Expect a very sad note to go out on.  Also, don’t message me and spoil it for me.  I have to wait for Wrestlemania to get over around 11, and then I can watch TWD.  I most likely will have my phone off, but I would still despise anybody who out and out sent a spoiler.  You may message me and ask me if I have seen it, and then wait for a response.

One final thing.  If Judith gets it somehow, I’m just saying that I will be so happy.  I know that makes me an awful person, but her existence in this show never made much sense to me, and I feel that they should have gotten rid of her sooner.  I’m not anti babies for you sensitive folks.  It was illogical that she didn’t get more people killed though.They could have had Mika die trying to save Judith, and then Lizzie could have still looked at the flowers.  I hope that you enjoy the episode.  Thank you so much for reading.  

All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.

The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:7 Ep:14 – The Vegetables, Not Veggies Edition

Welcome to the only Walking Dead blog that has somebody who loves Gregory’s character, that would be me.  I am your host, Kent, and I ask the questions around here.  Then I have this awesome group of people who occasionally find merit in my questions and then they answer them.  It’s neat.  My sincerest thanks to Bob, Bitty, Teddy, Cece, Kristi, and Chris.  They all took various amounts of time to share their opinion, so please take the time to read it.

In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related.  If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter  @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce.  Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else.  If you would like to participate, let me know.  The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits.  Please note all messages in bold are written by me.

  1.  Who is the shadowy figure with the crossbow at the end of the episode?

Bob:  Dwight! I can only hope!

Bitty:  My call is Dwight.

Teddy:  Well could be Daryl because he asked where Sasha was, but I honestly believe it’s Dwight

Cece:  Apparently it’s Dwight.

Kristi:  Dwight. I think he is going to help defeat Negan.

Chris:  It has to be Dwight.  Daryl couldn’t have made it there fast enough.  I think we’re going to see Dwight turning on Negan soon.

Kent:  OK, everybody has chosen Dwight.  There’s no reason that it can’t be Daryl, despite people online saying that time is a factor.  Well, we don’t know how long Sasha and Rosita were camped in the building.  It was long enough to go from day into the evening or night.  That is plenty of time considering that they only had an hour head start, maybe 2 at the most.  It’s probably Dwight, but I am pleading my case for it to be Daryl.  That adds a whole level of suspense of whether he will get caught.  Dwight is obviously more interesting, but screw it.

 

  1.  Rosita’s idea to distract the walkers with the fire in the car: good idea or bad idea?

Bob:  It is an okay idea.  Fire and smoke also attract the living so it was a decision lacking wisdom.  Rosita still only sees what is right in front of her, through the sunglasses of the past.  (I am glad that I wasn’t the only person wondering about the living aspect.  That was a huge red flag instantly.)

Bitty:  It worked for what they needed. Fire always distracts them until they get bored!  (What is a zombie’s attention span, and is it longer than a millennial’s?)

Teddy:  It makes sense to distract zombies with fire…tale as old as time (Song as old as rhyme?  If that wasn’t intentional, I still don’t apologize.)

Cece:  Decent enough idea, I think. What else would they have done, really?  (Not brought attention to themselves.  You asked.)

Kristi:  Decent idea. I think she could have found an easier way than taking the time to cut the fence but I guess they needed a time filler.  (TWD with a time filler?  The hell you say!  That has NEVER happened!)

Kent:  It was a bad idea, mmmkay.  They made an assumption that the vehicle didn’t have any fuel in the tank, but if it had, think about the disaster potential.  Yes, everything worked out, so people will point to that as being the right decision, but a lot of right decisions backfire and a lot of bad decisions work out.  On top of that, that seemed like a big target for them knowing how many outposts there are.  It was typical, lazy TWD writing that we have all grown to accept.  Remember, Glenn magically rotated in mid air as did the ambulance with Daryl and Carol.

 

  1.  This show had a series of important conversations.  Which one was the best for you?

Bob:  Negan’s extended conversation with Carl was supreme.  Full of variations but all controlled by Negan.  I love how his part was played.  Frankly, Negan was acting as Carl’s father more than Rick due to this episode.  (But….but Rick had that one conversation with Carl in the barn, and uhmmmm, he trusted him to shoot walkers a few times.  Sigh, you’re right.)

Bitty:  All the conversations between Rick and Hershel. Hershel was one of the first to ever talk about how people aren’t in their right state of mind in the new world. Hershel was able to see the good and the evil.  (Herschel not only did that, but to piggyback on your thought, we actually got to see Herschel get it.  When the group took down the walkers in the barn, more importantly when Shane kept shooting the walker and it kept coming, we kind of saw Herschel’s whole realization process, to the point of driving him to drink and then find more humanity.  Such a great character.  Honestly, when I re-watch the show, I look forward to all of his scenes because of his transformation, in season 2 especially.)

Teddy:  I believe the Stuff and Thangs is the most important convo outside the Corl meme.  (I don’t have much to add to that, but I will include this picture of my birthday gift from Bitty’s husband, Brian.  It’s relevant.)

Cece:  This is very true. There have been many. The main ones that have stuck out to me lately is Father Gabriel to Spencer or Negan to Carl.  (As a Gabriel fan, I find it troubling that he has become the moral compass of the show, and I fear for his safety.  Plus he’s black, and TWD history has not been kind to black dudes.)

Kent:  Man, my wording of these questions need to improve.  I was actually asking about this particular episode, BUT it appears that I may have not been as specific as I intended.  I will give my not for this week’s episode to the Simon and Gregory conversation.  I was expecting some girl to go on about Daryl and Maggie with Maggie not being mad at Daryl, and then somebody else to go on about how the Sasha and Rosita thing felt nice because it brought back fond memories of Abraham.  Instead…..well you read it.  So I guess in the spirit that everybody else took it, I will go with Tyrese and Carol, in one of the best acted moments of the show when she reveals to Tyrese that she killed what’s her tits.  My mistake was saying show and not saying episode.  I need an angry nun ringing a bell behind me and yelling “Shame” as I walk nude to Mayfield.

 

  1.  Will Gregory have the inner-testicular fortitude to meet Negan at Sanctuary on his own accord?

Bob:  I hope so because Gregory needs to see the iron. Or see someone get the iron.  I am surprised Gregory didn’t narc yet…  (Under what circumstances could you foresee Gregory getting the iron?  You have me intrigued.)

Bitty:  Oh Gregory. He’s like the little kid who wants to hang out with the bad kids on the playground but ends up being the butt of the jokes. He has no balls. He will possibly make an attempt but I hope Maggie kicks his ass before that happens.  (Why Maggie and not Jesus?  Aside from the obvious info that I have from the books, but to me, it just seems like Jesus should be the one.  Just curious about your reasoning.)

Teddy:  Gregory has the testicular fortitude of mud…he wont meet Negan. He will die like the worm he is

Cece:  Hell no. He’s a pussy.

Kristi:  I don’t think so. I’m kinda hoping he dies before he gets to do that. He is a very frustrating character.  (Some day you may be very happy.)

Kent:  I think that he is going to get so full of himself that he may decide to.  Maybe he senses the winds of change, like The Scorpions have before him, and then he a Big City Night with Negan in Sanctuary and asks him to Rock all of the rebel rousers Like A Hurricane.  Gregory will even refer to Hilltop as The Zoo.  He will then again bow and pledge his allegiance to Negan by telling him that there’s No One Like You.  Yeah, go listen to the Scorpions while reading the rest of this.  I don’t even have a real point.  I guess I say that he will because why else extend that invitation unless they are going to follow through on it? 

 

  1.  Should Sasha have tried to take the shot, wait it out, or go in guns blazing?  Yeah, none are great options, but choose one.

Bob:  Easily wait for the shot.  However, advertisers need their time slots as do other shows.  I am a little disturbed that they go to do this sniper mission and give it one attempt.  (Man, you people.  Always bringing up points about filling up time and advertisers.  But yeah, the give it one attempt thing cracked me up.  Rosita gets this great gun, then finds the one girl that she really doesn’t like, to get this mission accomplished.  They risk all sorts of things, and then see Negan for 15 seconds and are like, nahhhh.)

Bitty:  Wait it out. I’m not sure why they thought Negan would only come outside one time. Silly girls.  (I find that sexist and very offensive.  Really, they have seen him how many times, but now they think that this like Groundhog Day or some such nonsense.  Poor writing by TWD!)

Teddy:  in any kind of assassination attempt it seems retarded to go in guns blazing. That is the fastest way to insure you do not kill your target. Shot from a distance is easily the best option because it allows for an escape.  (Yeah, glad you mocked the guns blazing strategy so I didn’t have to.  Of course, I am also a big believer in “If I ain’t dyin’, I ain’t tryin’, but I use that philosophy mainly in video games.  Mainly.)

Cece:  She should have waited until there was a definite, clear time to snipe his ass.  (As I have learned in Zelda, sniping the ass rarely gets you the meat that you need to make a delicious meal.  Just saying.)

Kristi:  Wait it out. He was bound to come outside again.  (How awesome would it be if he had a body double?  Think about it!)

Kent:  I am a firm believer in taking the shot, but only if you have a 50% chance or higher of succeeding.  You see, I have been playing The Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild, and I keep getting impatient when I am trying to hunt the buffalo or whatever the hell they are, and I sometimes only get them in the chest or neck and it’s not an insta kill, and then they run off.  Same principle here.  You have to get a  critical hit or else it’s not worth that bullet or arrow in my case.  So the correct answer is to wait it out.

 

  1.  Do you agree with Gregory when he said that the new people need to start doing jobs and pulling their own weight?  Also, why is Gregory so pissed at Jesus?

Bob:  I agree with ends of Gregory’s statement, that everyone should do their fair share but I really feel he was trying to do 9 of two things.  I mean, 1 of 2 things.  9th, he is trying to lamely attempt to regain control and distract from this rebellion or 2nd, he wants to keep an eye on people and hold them accountable so he can rat on them that way when they haven’t produced enough for the Saviors.  (And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you guarantee yourself winning a question.  9 Deuce references will get you everywhere on this blog.  I really did enjoy the 2nd point, as I hadn’t considered it, but it is so something Gregory would do.  I like it!)

Bitty:  Haven’t the new people already been doing jobs? Training the village how to fight! Jesus is a threat and Gregory knows this.  (While your point is valid and I agree with it, can we just take a moment to think about how much better that training montage would have been with “You’re the Best” by Joe Esposito?   I sadly knew his name without having to look it up.  Seriously, give us more montage and less Sasha and Rosita tying knots.  Also, more vegetables guy!)

 

Teddy:  Gregory is only trying to act tough. His ass doesn’t lift a finger to work himself (can you tell I hate him?) I do believe in earning your keep in the zombie apocalypse but Gregory is acting like a dog peeing on stuff trying to make it his. Gregory is just taking his small dick issues out on Jesus because all the bitches love Jesus.  (Bitches love Jesus.  This really needs to go on a shirt.  I keep saying this.  Also, really digging the dog peeing on stuff analogy.)

Cece:  I mean, of course people should all be working together. That’s how a community works, period. He seems more like he’s trying to save his own ass, than to be nice to people. He’s afraid of the main group because he knows they’re trying to fight.  (If you could be doing what Gregory is doing, or toiling away scavenging, what would you choose?  I would totally pull a Gregory.  I have also been watching a ton of South Park lately, and watching Cartman puts things in perspective so often.)

Kristi:  Yes, everyone needs to have some purpose in serving the community. I think Gregory is seeing his potential as a leader and it scares him.  (I will ask you this particular question, what more does Ezekiel do that Gregory doesn’t do?  You don’t really hear anybody complain about what Ezekiel does, he runs the community and has a tiger.  I think fans have a double standard because Ezekiel is incredibly lovable and Gregory is…..well I love him and I am probably the only one.  All I am saying is that having a full time leader, organizer, representative, isn’t the worst thing, at least from my perspective. )

Kent:  Gregory is always right, even when he supposedly gets people’s names incorrect, he’s still right.  Of course people need to not only pull their own weight, but if you want to get in good with Gregory and start to get some power, you do even more work and you suck up and then sleep with him, and then do what Andrea failed to do with the Governor.  This would work for Maggie, Sasha, Enid, Rosita, Jesus, and possibly Daryl as he has shown no heterosexual tendencies as of yet, and Carol has all but drawn him a map to her promised land.  I think he’s pissed at Jesus because he’s a bit jealous of his hair and eyes.  Gregory is a handsome man, but I mean, he can’t compete with what Jesus brings to the table.

 

  1.  Why did Eugene reject Rosita’s offer to escape?

Bob:  This also I feel can go two ways.  One option is that Eugene wants the protection from Negan and is effectively, Negan.  Alternatively, Eugene is very, very smart.  He has a master plan and this little hurrah is messing with his methods.  (I truly believe that this messed up what he’s working on.)

Bitty:  I’m so torn with this. I would love to believe that Eugene is plotting and planning to take down Negan, however I really just don’t believe that’s the case. I think Eugene rejected the escape because he’s just not ready. In a sick way he feels safer inside Negan’s walls than out. You have to pick your poison. (I struggle to find a flaw with what you said in regards to him feeling safer inside the walls than out.  Obviously, it’s significantly safer for damn near anybody.  Hell, Daryl was technically safer in there, right?  Plus, let’s not forget that in Eugene’s case, it’s amplified, in the same way that Daryl’s is because now Negan is actively trying to find Daryl with bad intentions.  Eugene just isn’t a good candidate for hiding in the way that Daryl is.  If Eugene had escaped, I think I would have been pissed at Eugene for being an idiot.)

Teddy:  Eugene just earned their trust, so him jumping ship now would fuck all that work up. Eugene did the smart thing.  (The trust thing is huge, especially early on.)

Cece:  He’s afraid. He’s so confused and doesn’t want to get in the cross fire of things. He’s like a neutral dude who just wants things to go smoothly.  (I truly don’t think that he’s confused, but he could be.  A lot of fans give him a lot of credit that he may not even deserve as being this mastermind.)

Kristi:  He has a plan. Not sure what but I feel like he may actually be trying to help. Also, if he did escape it would put everyone in danger.  (Well, I just said that above, prior to reading this.  Obviously, I agree.)

Kent:  Eugene knows what he is doing.  Right now, he is as close to untouchable as you can be with the Saviors, which isn’t saying much, but almost everybody would trade places with him at the moment, which says a lot.  Then these strumpets come and mess up his swagger, and it’s bullcrap, alright.  Eugene is living it up at the moment all things considering, and if Rick’s group takes over, Eugene can say that he was waiting to unveil his masterplan.  If he never gets rescued, well he’s got an Atari to play.  Eugene is pretty much winning the apocalypse right now.

 

  1.  Who do you respect more: Simon or Gregory?  If you struggle with this, ask yourself who you least respect and then pretend it’s opposite day.

Bob:  Simon hands down.  Simon has authority and knows it and shows it.  Simon doesn’t just talk about it, he is about it and does it.  Gregory…  reminds me of the used car salesman in “True Lies.”. He is about to urinate in his own pants.  (Man, a True Lies reference!  I was just talking about that film 2 nights ago.  I really would love more film references in these blogs.  Thank you.  Come to find out, one of Craig’s favorite lines is “Ass like a 10 year old boy”. This whole video is great.)

Bitty:  Simon. (& Simon)

 

Teddy:  Simon. Gregory isn’t worth the sweat his father made while squirting him out. Also, Simon makes me laugh.  (Simon had me laughing a couple of times this episode, and has in the past as well.  He really nails the character.)

Cece:  I respect Simon more. Yes, he’s made under Negan’s image to be a delivery boy, BUT, he’s an ass and at least he knows it. Gregory tries to be hard but he’s just a piece of shit coward.  (After reading this, I wondered if Gregory is actually self aware.  As you say, Simon is an ass, but he knows it.  Is Gregory so full of himself that he believes his bullshit, or is it all a front?  I could make an argument for both sides, which is basically the gist of these blogs anyway. It’s 60% me just making arguments for the sake of arguing.)

Kristi: I hate Gregory more.  (I’m glad you went with the hate more angle and not the respect more angle.  Good job.)

Kent:  I respect both guys so much.  While I may like Simon more, Gregory is running a community.  He has kept his community fairly safe.  Everybody loves Ezekiel, but hates Gregory, yet they have done similar things.  “But…..but Ezekiel smiles ,Kent, and Jerry is really fuckin funny.”  Uh huh, and?  I have been wondering, when Gregory does get killed, will it be the most beloved kill in the whole series?  I am going to say yes.    

 

  1.  Why did Simon/Negan leave the Hilltop that mass quantity of aspirin?

Bob:  I laughed out loud when I saw that!  Maybe someone actually thought that was almost fair from the Saviors.  It was really their way of saying, you had a doctor by our grace, and now we are taking him back.  Here is a parting gift for your trouble.  (So they basically lost on a game show, but walk away with a parting gift.  I wish Marc Summers had been on this episode.  I have to include this video because it has Marc Summers and Burt Reynolds, and Burt is so pissy as he just got divorced I believe.)

Bitty:  Because they are assholes.  (I’m not going to link to Dennis Leary’s “Asshole”……or am I?)

Teddy:  Because they’re being sarcastic saying most people’s problems would be solved by some Alieve.  (Maybe it’s the cure to the zombie epidemic?  Like you overdose on it and BAM, cured.  M Night Shamalayan would call that a tweest!)

Cece:  As a joke because they are going to have massive headaches trying to figure out how to run things now that they’ve stolen their doctor.  (As a person with chronic daily headaches, I approve of this message.)

Kent:  Because they care.  They want the hilltop to still thrive in the absence of Dr. Carson, and with that much aspirin, they should be able to barter that to other communities and get other things.  People are really undervaluing that amazing crate.  Yeah, I bet you didn’t consider the whole bartering thing, right?  Like, how many boxes would get a melon from the Kingdom?  You MUST think about these things, people!

 

Bonus Deuce

  1.  Now that we are almost done with the season, who do you find yourself missing more: Abraham or Glenn?

Bob:  Abraham but he would be dead by now anyway because of his strength and he is considered a threat.  (So, say Negan had chosen Glenn first.  Daryl obviously had his reaction.  My question is, would Abe have reacted in similar fashion and gotten captured or his head bashed in?  I don’t think Abe leaves that lineup alive because he was such a hothead.  Something to consider for the readers.)

Bitty:  Glenn. I miss his interactions with everyone- he always had that “hopeful” outlook and was a bad ass at the same time. He still carried the voice of reason.  (I know that we often see things very differently, which is fine.  It gives me things to poke fun at.  From your perspective, did you find Glenn to be fairly weaker as the series went on, from a character perspective, say during seasons 5 and 6?   I did, but I am curious about you.)

Teddy:  Neither to be honest. I miss Bob.  (Bob never got the recognition that he deserved.  His death was terribly pointless too.  Tara could have gotten eaten by the Hunters/Termites.)

Cece:  I’m not too sure. I like Glenn as a person, but I think I miss Abraham more because he would have been a more badass asset to us now.  (I want you to consider the same question that I posed to Bob, about whether Abe would have ever made it out of the lineup alive had he not been chosen initially.  Message me.)

Kristi:  Abraham. Glenn always kinda annoyed me.  (I just want to say, Glenn totally lost me when he was too much of a pussy to kill Nicholas when Nicholas and him had that big fight, I think the same time that Alexandria was considering banishing Rick.  Glenn was so highly praised, but him not killing Nicholas was a bitch move.)

Kent:  Glenn got worse with every passing season.  Seriously, rate how much you liked Glenn after each season and it is probably a gentle downward slide.  Abraham was one of the 3 funniest characters on the show, along with Eugene and Merle.  Abe is the obvious answer.  Herschel is a definite 4th by the way for funny.  Huh, no women on this funny list.  Aren’t women supposed to be really smart and really funny?  I’m confused.

 

  1.  Has Rosita grown on you this season or made you sour on her?

Bob:  When is she going to die?  (She could die in the season finale.  If not, you will have to wait for maybe the season 9 finale if my calculations are accurate, or the season 10 midseason finale.  If she makes it past this season, then it will be awhile for her comic demise, and I would like to see that play out more than a throwaway death now.  Dare I say, you may actually enjoy her story after the war if it plays out the way it does in the books.  Knowing how the show goes, they will make it way too dramatic and make all grown men openly groan, but one can hope.)

Bitty:  Ok throughout this season and last I’ve been so over Rosita!! However as you all know I’m a sucker for the backstory of the character. FINALLY, we hear a little bit about Rosita’s past. This makes her tolerable now. She’s still got to get got soon though.  (Man, you said get got, and that’s perfect.  We agree wholeheartedly on this whole backstory thing.  Backstory makes almost all TWD characters significantly more tolerable, except Tara.)

Teddy:  I want an arrow to pierce her like Abraham used to xD  (Wow, that was incredibly lewd.  That’s so something I would say, so full approval.)

Cece:  I have always hated her. Her sentiment toward Sasha at the end made me hate her like 1% less, but still.  (So were you at a full 100% prior and dropped to 99%, because that is some cereal hate.  Or were you at like a 73% and dropped to 72%?  Inquiring minds want to know.)

Kristi:  I still don’t care for her. Her little attitude is childish. She needs to go away already.  (There are times where she has a childish outlook, I concur.  I do like the fact that she is proactive.  We need proactive characters to get the ball moving, or else the show would grow too stagnant.  Of course there are times when you want to cut her face again.)

Kent:  Grown like a raging clue after seeing Alicia Silverstone in Aerosmith’s “Cryin’” video.  Yeah, some of you like that reference.  The rest of you are damn millennials.  Seriously, Rosita’s character has significantly improved this season.  She’s had a lot to work with and has been killing it.  Not always making good decisions, but everybody sure loves Rick, no matter how many bad decisions he makes.  You people are sexist and I feel bad for you.  Shame!  Also, I referenced Aerosmith because this episode was titled “The Other Side” which is the name of a great song of theirs.  Please, do not mention the Red Hot band that never shuts the hell up about California.  Thank you for reading.  Have a nice day.

All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.

The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:7 Ep:13 – The Morgan Got His Stick Back Edition

Welcome to the only Walking Dead blog that asks people about cobbler.  This week, I am joined by Bitty, Bob, Briana, Cece, and Teddy as we go through 11 questions and help make the internet great again.  This is one of my all time favorite episodes, and I have watched it 5 times.  They really did a wonderful job on this one, in my opinion.  People can say that the show is going downhill, and to those detractors, I present them with this episode and tell them to choke on it.

In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related.  If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter  @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce.  Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else.  If you would like to participate, let me know.  The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits.  Please note all messages in bold are written by me.  If you watched Talking Dead, this will make sense to you.

  1.  Whose death will have more impact moving forward, beyond this episode::Benjamin’s or Richard’s?

Bitty:  Richards death was key to igniting Morgan’s will to kill and survive. Richard had a similar view that I believe Shane would’ve had if he was still alive.  (Points for bringing up Shane!  Yeah, those 2 along with Merle would have made a great team.)

Bob:  Being that Benjamin’s death finally triggered Ezekiel to extract his mind from his brown eye, the answer to this is clearly Richard.  Richard was a leader and tactically, the rebellion will suffer unknown loss due to Richard’s death.  Also, Richard because Morgan is killing.  (Yeah, the tactical point is a big one for the Kingdom, like a huge loss.  Also, point for brown eye.  I miss browneyedgurls.geocities.com)

Briana:  That’s tough! Benjamin’s death will have more of an emotional impact because he has his little brother and Ezekiel was so close to him. Richard’s death will have an impact on the sense that it fueled the fire to get the Kingdom on track to join the others in the fight.  (I am still wondering if Richard was never found out, would Ezekiel have gone to war just over Ben’s death.)

Cece:  I’m not really sure either one of them was too important. But, Benjamin’s death led the Kingdom to understand what they may be dealing with now.  (You’re not sure?  You may need to re-watch the episode because you may have missed something.  They pretty much Peter North’d it down our collective gullets.)

Teddy:  Richard’s death was surprisingly inconsequential, Benjamin’s was the spark that lit Ezekial’s fire. Honestly was shocked by that since I thought Jerry’s death was the fuel.  (Jerry’s death would have been huge, but he did get whacked.  I am still undecided on how much Ben’s death impacted Ezekiel’s decision vs Richard’s, simply based on what was presented to us, and knowing how much Ezekiel likes to deliberate.  I think this is something that will be touched on in a later episode, or so I hope.)

Kent:  Richard’s is more important.  Yes, Ezekiel is ready, but it took the death of both guys before we saw that in him.  While Ben’s death effected Morgan, it was Richard’s plan that pushed Morgan to kill again.  We have a pissed off Morgan back with us, and while I feel that Ezekiel would have decided to fight the Saviors after Ben’s death, but we may never know.  What we do know is that Ben was still learning to fight and was still a teen, and Richard was a man who could fight.  

 

  1.  Is Carol about to go back into season 5 and 6 mode where she will do whatever is needed, or will we see a hybrid version of Carol where she may not be as intense?

Bitty: There must be a middle ground for Carol. She should be a leader and not just a ninja killer. I hope to see Carol leading a smart and efficient way, not just “do it herself” mode where she gets overwhelmed and has to leave again.  (I can absolutely foresee a way that they could make Carol a leader by season 9 or 10, if they so choose to play it that way.)

Bob:  I think we will see a Carol that is frankly deadlier than before but she will be more reflective upon what she does.  She will be more choosey about who she kills but woe to them she decides to kill.  (I like the idea of her being more choosey.  It would serve her character well.)

Briana:  Carol seems to only have 2 speeds. Rabbit or Turtle. She’s been stuck in Turtle mode for a while and she will have get back into her crazy self if she plans on doing anything. She doesn’t half ass so I’m saying she will definitely be back to her intense self.  (As a person who is permanently on Turtle mode, I will cheer for the rabbit this one time.  Makes me want to watch some Looney Tunes as well.)

Cece:  I think she will fight, but I don’t think she will completely be savage.  (Ohhhhhhhh Yeaaaaah….Dig it.  That was a Macho Man Randy Savage reference for the uninitiated.  Sometimes my comments are for my enjoyment.)

Teddy:  She softened really quick, but I don’t really believe she lost her kill everyone spirit lol.  (Let’s hope that she hasn’t.)

Kent:  She will definitely be closer to the former than the latter.  I think she will be more open to planning a strategy instead of just doing what is needed, which could backfire.  Carol’s instincts have been spot on.  I really want to see her go Dr Dre 2001 Chronic album on the Saviors.  I’m excited.

 

  1.  Regarding Richard’s death, was it more important for Morgan to kill him in front of the Kingdom due to Ben, or more important to do in front of the Saviors?  Please only choose one.

Bitty:  Ugh one?! Honestly this is a tough choice to make. If Morgan had killed in front of different Savior members, Dwight, Negan it would have been super important. I think that’s all I can add to this question. (Ugh, I know right?  I think you undervalue Gavin’s importance in the Savior’s rankings.  I could be wrong, but I think he is probably #4, and maybe #3.  Dwight has a bigger role, but as far as rank, I don’t know who’s higher.  Simon is clearly #2.  Eugene is #1A.)

Bob:  Morgan followed Richard’s death.  Morgan even guarded against Richard lying since clearly, Richard will do a thing for a just cause in his own eyes.  That being said, Morgan earned prima facie the Saviors’ trust of the Kingdom to be compliant.  Morgan saw the emotional opportunity of the one Savior being dismissed and capitalized on it.  The death was needed for the sake of restoring relations with the Saviors. (The guy dismissed is named Jared.  Prima facie means based on the first impression; accepted as correct until proved otherwise.  There, we just worked together to Kentucate people.)

Briana:  Obviously, there’s reason for both but if I have to say one was more important than the other, I’ll go with the Saviors. I think it’s what Richard planned all along once his first plan didn’t pan out. He needed the Saviors to think the trust was still there. They need the element of surprise so making the Saviors think he killed him for stealing one of the melons, gives them that. It lets their guard down with them and keeps them off the radar of them potentially going rogue.  (Speaking of Rogue, I’m still irritated with how she was portrayed in the X-Men films.  Just saying.  She was so much better in the 90’s animated series on FOX.)

Cece:  More important for him to kill in front of Saviors. By him showing the fuck up to everyone and killing him on spot, it also shows that the Kingdom isn’t fucking around.  (D0 you think that possibly Gavin took notice or gave a damn about it?  I hadn’t considered him walking away taking note, but I can see that as a possibility.)

Teddy:  I believe he did what Richard wanted. Richard wanted to die in front of both to spark the flame…he got his monkey paw wish granted lol.  (Point for the monkey paw reference.  I pretty much love every monkey paw TV or film reference that I have seen.  It’s a simple story, and I don’t know why it’s not used more in modern day storytelling.)

Kent:  I look at it this way, the relationship with the Saviors wasn’t going to really alter from the Saviors’ perspective, even if the group rebelled, they were confident that things would carry on eventually.  I’m of the belief that Ezekiel needed to actually see somebody “rise up” and fight.  He just lost his best soldier, and Morgan has instilled some confidence in Ezekiel to go to war.  In that regard, isn’t that more important than just “fooling” the Saviors?

 

  1.  Carol has not really enjoyed the company of younger people since the prison.  Do you think that she will ever find somebody to mentor or to care for, who isn’t an adult?

 

Bitty:  No, Carol needs to focus on her relationships with people her age and older. The Mom figure is too much for her to handle. She is a bad ass strong woman who needs to take charge and lead men and women, not be a surrogate or school teacher.

Bob:  No.  I believe she is protecting them from becoming like her psychotic self.

Briana:  The way I see it going down is she and Ezekiel end up getting together and sort of adopting Benjamin’s little brother. From the previews, it looks like that’s a road they may take. (Yup, I think there’s a good chance of that.)

Cece:  It could be nice to see her branch out into her old habits again. But I can’t seem to think of anyone this could apply to.

Teddy:  Not after she tried with little miss Satan (look into the pretty flowers…blam!)  (I really miss Lizzie.  She was a fun, psychotic character.  We need more of them.  People should be more psychotic folks in this world.)

Kent:  I think that not only will Carol start to care for Ben’s brother, Henry, but also I have this feeling that Carol has to impart some wisdom to Carl and Little Ass Kicker.  I can towards the end of the show’s run, Carol with Judith, and it would absolutely make sense.

 

  1.  Is Lennie James (Morgan) the best actor on the show?  If not, who is?

Bitty:  Although his skills are flawless, I still feel the pain in Carols eyes, she doesn’t have to speak and she is in pain. (I was going to say Tara to see your reaction!!)  (You would have been able to feel the hate in my eyes, because you know, I’m also a great actor.  I think between Morgan and Carol, they can just look at each other and carry a scene.)

Bob:  He ranks high, but no.  I hate to do this, but I believe Andrew Lincoln is the best actor.  We have seen him with his sanity and without it.  We have seen him happy and crushed.  We have seen him arrogance and fearful.  We have seen him rash and calculating.  He has covered a slew of different emotions and states of mind and is convincing and captivating at the same time.  He has had his boring moments, but my better half also noted his near perfect acting when they were initially captured by Negan.  (I have 2 issues with putting Andy higher on my list.  First, he is the character we see way more than anybody else, meaning that he has had more opportunity to showcase all of that, which may not be fair, but I tend to count that against the leads, except in Breaking Bad because Bryan Cranston was so good.  Secondly, when Lori died, Rick rolling around on the ground, he cries about as badly as Edward Norton does.  I have to acknowledge that.  He is really good though.)

Briana:  Oh he’s absolutely one of the best! I don’t think I could pick just one to be the very best though! I’ve always been extremely impressed by Rick and Maggie being English! I seriously had no clue either of them were anything less than Southern until I saw them in other things (and yes I had totally seen him in Love Actually long before Walking Dead but just didn’t connect the dots until I saw him interview for some other show he did!)  (I also saw Love Actually, last month thanks to Cece.  He was good in that.  The being English thing is a valid point, well him and Lauren.  Did you see her in The Boy?  If not, I can’t say that I recommend it, but if somebody did like it, I recommend checking out Housebound.  Similar story, but better done.)

Cece:  He is most definitely one of the best actors in the show, for sure. I can’t think of anyone I really like who acts better than he does in their roles specific to only this show. When it comes to careers, Jeffrey Dean Morgan, for sure.  (When it comes to careers Michael Rooker, Norman Reedus, and Jeffrey DeMunn are all in the conversation.  DeMunn probably has the best career when considering the show in totality with Shawshank Redemption, Green Mile, and The Mist.  That’s tough to beat. Rooker has been in a lot of stuff, just not as high profile, but more quantity.  I can go all day on this.)

Teddy:  I believe he shows range for sure, and he tows that sanity line better than Andrew Lincoln does as Rick.  (Bingo!  I think he does that better than Andy, and that’s the biggest reason that I favor Lennie over Andy.  Morgan’s sanity feels more volatile and real to me.  RIck was just chasing a ghost.  Morgan feels it.)

Kent:  This is a tough one.  He’s in the top tier with Michael Rooker (Merle), Scott Wilson (Herschel), Melissa McBride (Carol), and Andy Lincoln (Rick).  I favor Lennie over Melissa, but they are 1 and 1A.  Morgan has had less screen time, but he does crazy in such a good way.  Plus Lennie kicked ass in Snatch.

 

  1.  Do you miss when The Walking Dead would spend time showing a character’s backstory, pre-zombie apocalypse or whatever they did to get to this current point in time?

Bitty:  I love knowing these things about a character!! However there is no time anymore when so many stories are in motion. When Eugene explained his back story in less than 60 secs a couple weeks ago it was perfect. Exactly what I wanted to know how him without an entire episode.  When we first had the Morgan episode years ago, getting captured and taught and all I was frustrated and bored with it. But now I understand Morgan’s development because of that. So I guess what I’m saying is that there aren’t any other characters right now that i need  a back story for. Except Daryl. What did he do??  (He was a private investigator.)

Bob:  Yes BUT I don’t want whole episodes of that.  It can be sooooo boring.  Glimpses are good, and leaving some mystery is a good thing.

Briana:  I really enjoy when they do that but I definitely think limitation is important! This show can be one of the worst about prolonging stories that aren’t quite as important as they make them out to be. Something that takes an entire episode can sometimes be explained in way less time!  (There are times when the show tries to force a story and it just doesn’t work.  Most shows are probably guilty of that, but in a show with such a huge cast, it’s more prominent here.)

Cece:  Absolutely. I LIVE for character development!  (D0 you die when a character is introduced but never talked about ever again?  I’m looking at your Morales and you Vatos and the remaining Wolves.)

Teddy:  Depends, I believe outside Jesus and Ezekiel they’ve pretty much covered all the important people left.

Kent:  I do because they have usually been really well done.  The exception was how poorly Abe’s backstory was.  I still love when Orange is the New Black does this, and is actually the best thing the show has going for it nowadays, unless you like preachy bullshit.  Here are people whose backstory I would love to see: Rosita, Negan, Gavin, Simon, Jesus, Gregory, Jerry, and of course Kent.  I know that Morgan’s 90 minute episode wasn’t universally loved, for some inane reason, but without that episode, Morgan’s character would be very lackluster now.  I just want the pre-credits backstory, not full episodes, except for Negan.  I would have loved to know more about Fat Joey too.  RIP

 

  1.  “To injure an opponent is to injure oneself” was a quote that Ben used during this episode.  This episode, the meaning is obvious.  Give me another example(s) of when that applied to the show.

Bitty:  Deep. Very Deep. When the Governor beheaded Hershel. He injured a crucial member of the apocalyptic society and in turn was killed himself because of that act.  (You took my initial thought when I wrote the question.)

Bob:  When Shane was killed by Rick.  By the way, Shane was also a great actor on this show.  Nothing like killing your adopted daughter’s father.  When the Governor killed Herschel.  When Negan killed Spencer and (mostly) Olivia.  (I read this, and I had this idea.  In 20 years, I would totally be in favor of the show being remade, but different characters survive.  So early on, we may see a lot of the same things play out, but suppose Shane and Dale don’t die so early and maybe Glenn gets it and that means that Maggie or Beth ends up with T Dog.  Sort of like the TV show, Sliders.  The same premise, but just played out differently.  Maybe they make it all the way to the prison, and maybe they work together with Governor, or maybe they attack the Governor and kill him like they initially wanted to.  Think about the possibilities.)

Briana:  I’ll go with Carol having to kill the red head from the Saviors. Killing her really had a huge impact on her making her completely emotionally unstable.  (Which is kinda weird when you think about it.  THAT was her breaking point.  Not being F’d over by Rick, not having to put down Lizzie, not having to kill that lady in Terminus, who had a sad story herself.  It was the Red Woman, but I don’t think her name was Melisandre.)

Cece:  Definitely pertains to when Rosita shot Lucille and then we lost Spencer.  (Good one.  Didn’t even cross my mind.  To add to that, that same scenario, Negan kept pushing the buttons and Lucille got hurt, so Negan took away Eugene, if you look at it from the Saviors POV.)

Teddy:  Daryl hit Negan so Glenn got the bat pretty easy choice. Also, Rick’s group took out the Savior’s outpost so Negan took out Abraham.  (Really, the whole round up, let’s play eeney meeney miney moe thing, that is once again, another example of this, only from the Savior’s POV.  Yes, they lost that outpost and the Dick Brigade, but then they took out Abe and Glenn.)

Kent:  No shit, everybody said something different. I was going to go with Herschel and Governor, but Bitty tackled that one, so I will suggest the Merle and Michonne thing.  Not only was Rick considering giving Michonne to The Governor, but Merle went to carry it out and realized that would injure the group too much, and then he got injured/killed.  That whole thing really works here.  Dale’s death got the group moved into Herschel’s place and sparked a fire.  Rick’s injury also strengthened Carl after the Prison went to shit.  Plenty of examples.  Great job guys and gals.

 

  1.  Another theme throughout this episode, and in the series for that matter took place when Nabila was talking to Ezekiel about how the garden was overrun with weevils, and that they would have to cut it and burn it, but if they want, it can all grow back.  Give me another example of this taking place in the series.

Bitty:  When the Walkers invaded Alexandria and were running rampant. The townspeople sacrificed part of their water source by filling it with gasoline and igniting it. Drawing the walkers to the fire as they burned in their clean water source.  (In hindsight, wasn’t that a terrible decision?  With 20-30 townpeople all fighting, was it necessary when if each person killed 3 walkers, that would have thinned it out pretty quick?  You had Rick and Michonne and Kent all out there fighting.  I’m just asking.)

Bob:  This actually goes back to the Old Testament of the Bible.  Destroy your enemy completely, utterly and competently.  Then prosper.  In the series, this has continually happened with every surbibor in the show.  Every person has needed to break themselves down or be broken down, choose to embrace that change, thus destroying a former version of themselves and then accept who they have become and grow into that person.  (You had to know that this was coming based off of your Surbibor comment.  Nobody reading this is in on the joke, but suffice it to say, 10+ years ago, we used to jam out to this song while playing many a video game, notably Deathrow.  Seriously, they do not say Survivor.)

Briana:  These are tough questions today!! Lol! I’m shooting in the dark here but look at the flowers was a pretty big theme.  (I like to ask the hard questions from time to time.  It helps us from becoming too complacent with the easy questions.  Plus, now you have Destiny’s Child above you, so there’s that.  

Cece:  Not too sure I can think of another example offhand, but maybe more like getting rid of the people who don’t want to work to make things better and starting fresh.  (Sure, consider the prisoners, and how Axel and Oscar had to really prove their worth, but only after losing what they knew and where they were safe.)

Teddy:  Rick and Hershel’s farming outings which Hershel told Rick to do it with CORL(Carl) (This was a really good one, and obvious, and I totally didn’t think of it.  Good call!)

Kent:  In a way, that’s what Rick was talking about with the Governor prior to Herschel’s beheading.  Burn the hate, and build something amazing.  

 

  1.  Will Morgan ever find peace before death?

Bitty:  I think he found peace IN death when he killed Richard.

Bob:  That is exactly when he will find peace, in those last moments right before death or a near death experience.  He is closer now that he will kill again.

Briana:  I think peace comes and goes with Morgan. He was at peace for a while. But will he find it again before he dies depends on how soon he dies! I could see him going full fledged psycho during this fight and getting himself killed. If he can make it past this particular situation then yes I think he’ll find peace again, at least for a while.  (I like your answer better than mine.  I have Night of the Living Dead references though to help make up for it.)

Cece:  I think so. He’s a very peaceful person. I hope someday his mind is at ease.

Teddy:  I believe he either will find peace in death (sacrificing himself) or he will save someone and let the pain go

Kent:  There’s no wrong answers here, except for maybe mine.  I like that people all had a different take on it, which tells me that Morgan is a complex and well done character.  In a weird way, I think killing Richard offered that peace.  It cleared his mind a bit, while also sending him spiraling.  I know that doesn’t make sense.  I think he’s at peace knowing that he avenged Benjamin, and has enough perspective to understand the world for what it is.  More importantly, I want to offer up this nugget.  Most of you know that Morgan’s son, Duane Jones, was named after the lead character in Night of the Living Dead.  Benjamin kinda became somewhat of a son figure briefly for Morgan.  Duane Jones’ character’s name in Night of the Living Dead was Ben.  Yeah, I’m sure that was intentional.  I can’t be the only person to have made that correlation.

 

Bonus Deuce

  1.   Why did Ezekiel want Jerry to leave the cobbler?

Bitty:  Cobbler equals Carol. Ezekiel wants to honor Carol’s wishes and leave her out of everything. If the cobbler isn’t there Ezekiel doesn’t have to think of Carol.  (I hadn’t considered a Carol correlation, but you made it work.  I like it.)

Bob:  He didn’t want the Saviors possibly seeing it and I also think Ezekiel is somewhat frustrated at how jovial Jerry is.  (Once again, I didn’t remotely consider that, but yeah, I think Ezekiel wishes Jerry would take things at least 47% more seriously for these missions)

Briana:  Partially professionalism, partially so he wouldn’t risk starting something with the Saviors. They may have decided they wanted it or decided that if they have enough food to eat on a run, they have enough to be giving bigger deliveries.  (This is probably the right answer.  It makes a lot of sense knowing what little we do of Ezekiel.)

Cece:  Who knows? He didn’t want him sharing.

Teddy:  Bruh those Saviors are greedy af lol. That cobbler is theirs lol and they won’t share….unless it’s with Carol.  (No sense in wasting food or sharing it in the ZA.  Look at how upset Morgan was about Michonne taking his peanut butter bar, or whatever the hell it was.)

Kent:  Ahhh, this is why I enjoy this blog.  Ezekiel probably just didn’t want everybody else to smell it and get hungry before this big mission.  There are more serious obvious answers, but eh, fudge that.

 

  1.  Gavin (the leader of the Saviors group that visits Ezekiel) provided us with a little insight into his character.  Do you think that he is closer to Simon, as in an uncaring hard ass, or to Dwight, who clearly has a lot going on?

Bitty: Based on pure hope- Dwight. Easier to break and destroy.  (I am curious as to how strong willed Simon really is, just based off of Bob’s response.)

Bob:  Simon, since I have to pick one of them.  Gavin has you fooled if you think he truly cares.  That’s all for pomp and circumstance.  Just because we have insight into the manipulation of Richard and Morgan with the Kingdom setting up for resisting the Saviors does not mean the Saviors are doing something similar of which we have no insight into.  Lastly, we need to trust basically, that Negan has put people in power whom have everything to lose and he controls.  (Thank you for mentioning Pomp and Circumstance because that allows me to make my second Macho Man Randy Savage reference!  That was the name of his theme song.  Also, that last line you wrote, very spot on.)

Briana:  I lean toward Dwight. I don’t know for sure if he does what he does out of fear or genuine care for making the situation work out without casualties. But it seems he genuinely doesn’t want people to die when he’s out on these runs and that says something compared to how other leaders act.  (Dwight strikes me as  a guy who doesn’t want to kill, but if he ends up in a better place due to that death, then he supports it, which is the way a large portion of us really would end up like, given similar circumstances, no matter how think of ourselves, people do desperate things in desperate time.  I plan on lying a lot and using big words and basically pulling a Eugene, minus the hair game of course.)

Cece:  Definitely a Dwight. You could even see how he was somewhat upset that Benjamin had died. (That is what the show wants us to believe.  As a cynic, I am hoping for more layers to Gavin, sooner than later, as I don’t think he’s going to survive much longer.)

Teddy:  Benjamin’s death shook him for sure. I feel like he doesnt like to do his job but he knows he has to despite liking talking to Ezekial.  (I can see him liking doing business with Ezekiel.  That makes a lot of sense realistically.  Way better than dealing with Gregory.)

Kent:  I think he is closer to Simon.  If anything, he may have witnessed his own son get killed and maybe it hit him hard briefly, or it could have all been an act.  He is still about doing business and pleasing his boss.  Jared on the other hand is just a douche bag that has been granted the slightest bit of power and takes it way too far.  He has to be the most hated character on the show behind Tara, right?  He whacked Jerry!

 

All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.

The Walking Dead 9 Deuce: S:7 Ep:12 – The Walking Dead Flashback Episode Edition

Welcome to the only Walking Dead blog that tasks people with answering 11 questions about an episode, no matter how bad or insulting it is to viewer’s intelligence.  Oh hey, Episode 12 was really great, am I right?  This episode can go back to Oceanside.  On the plus side, it appears that Rosita and Sasha are about to give us a memorably moment.

In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related.  If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter  @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce.  Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else.  If you would like to participate, let me know.  The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits.  Enjoy this meme, provided to me via Cece. Please note all messages in bold are written by me.

 

  1.  Throughout the episode, Michonne seemed to be more in a rush than Rick.  Why do you think that is?

Bitty: Rick was in the moment.  At first I thought he was scared to go back to reality, scared of more deaths, more fights, scared of Negan.  But as the episode went on he was just in the moment.  He understands the moment finally.  He can lose people and it’s ok but this is life now.  Michonne will continue to keep Rick focused and be his mental drive.  (I like that you describe it as living in the moment, because that’s the gist of it.  No doubt.)

Bob: Michonne doesn’t have testicles.  Rick has 2.  (Yeah, nobody had a chance of topping this response.)

Briana: Rick first of all was just enjoying feeling alive out in the thick of it all. The outside feels more like home for him than behind the walls of Alexandria where he’s a prisoner to Negan. Also, I think it had to do with Michonne not being very optimistic that they would find something. Easier to just go back home than continue looking for something she feels is not out there.  (I hadn’t considered that last bit regarding Michonne, but that sounds about right.)

Kristi:  I think she was worried about the town. Rick seemed to want to spend time away and act like life was somewhat normal.  (Yeah, he needed that breather.)

Kent:  Rick really needs to take some time to digest everything.  Rick has always been pushing and pushing when everybody else needed to take a personal day, basically.  The only exception is when he lost his shit after Lori’s death.  Aside from that, he’s been the guy to keep this operation constantly pushing forward.  He’s in a state of mind where he just wants to enjoy a day or 2 with this chick and remember everybody that he has lost since this began, but especially Glenn.  Michonne hasn’t had the attachment to these people that Rick has by virtue of being the leader.  In a way, the whole episode’s theme was reflection if you want to get really deep and thoughtful.  Rosita reflected on her decisions and has her discussion with Gabe about it, Tara reflects with Judith, and then the Glenn stuff hits you over the head repeatedly.  The roof falling in happen in season 4, episode 1.  Being surrounded by walkers in a vehicle with dead military guys goes back to the first episode.  The stupid fake out of a character getting eaten by a mob of walkers goes back to the stupid thing that I am beyond sick of in season 6 episode 3.  The fact that this episode takes place at a carnival/fair set up is also curious for those familiar with the books because if you recall, it was a fair when Alpha first launches her revenge.  Also, TWD likes to incorporate deer more often than you may have considered.  Consider Carl got shot in S2 Ep1 when looking at the deer.  This was all like a weird flashback.

 

  1.  Rick and company have hit the jackpot a few times when scavenging for supplies.  This makes me wonder, do the Saviors do any scavenging, or do they strictly “supervise” other groups into scavenging?

Bitty: Great question!!! I’ve wondered this many times! What do the saviors do? They obviously grow plants and garden and harvest but then they just bully everyone to do the hard stuff for them.  Saviors have it all together at their camp but when they are out on their own in small groups I bet they are controllable.   (They shouldn’t be controllable.  We only have a small sample to really know much, but when we first met the Saviors, with Daryl, Sasha, and Abe getting stopped in the road, it did take an RPG to defeat them.  They were all well armed.  Shouldn’t they be a better fight, or do you think they may feel a bit of comfort and complacency?)

Bob:  They definitely supervise.  I wouldn’t waste the effort… It’s dangerous to do though because at any point, the supply chain could set up and the Saviors would be high and dry.  (That brings up something that I have often wondered.  The Saviors are a huge group.  Why doesn’t Negan have 10 people man each down to be more hands on with the supervision?  Negan is ruthless, aggressive, smart, but he is not very tactical, and I think we keep seeing flaws in his system.)

Briana:  I would think maybe in the beginning they scavenged a bit but now, no. If they did, they would have found the stuff our guys are finding. They just go around barking orders and doing lot of nothing. Just like CEOs. They reap the most benefit but do the least amount of work. Lol.

Kristi:  I think they scavenge but are too afraid to be seen by Negan’s crew so the keep a down low.  

Kent:  This part baffles me.  The writers can’t win here.  If they were to give me all the info that I request, then they have too much stuff to worry about.  Vague is better, but damn, I want a map.  We know that there are numerous outposts for the Saviors.  We know that they have communities working under them, some which we may not even know of.  Still, it seems sloppy that there isn’t better coordination to figure out what has and hasn’t been looked at, especially by locals who are more familiar with the area.  Really, nobody knew about this carnival place?  I assume the Saviors scavenge and do a bad job at it.  Also, let’s never forget the food truck that Rick and Daryl lost due to Jesus.

 

  1.  Is Rosita’s anger towards Father Gabriel appropriate or misguided?  Just pick one.  Also, what do you think Father Gabriel’s message to Rosita meant?  Was it more along the lines of stay within the system, or to go out and do what you need to, or something else?

Bitty:  Misguided.  Rosita is dumb and hot headed and is grieving.  She doesn’t know how to handle her emotions.  I think she has Daddy issues.  Father Gabriel’s message to Rosita was just spinning it back on her.  Her actions, her results.  (Father Gabriel and Rosita in a duo scene, just not my cup of tea).  (It was my favorite scene.  This is why I have you around, very different perspective.  Rosita was just acting every other female…..am I right guys?  Don’t send me hate mail.)

Bob:  Rosita is wicked emotional so all her decisions are misguided even if they end up being the right ones.  I think FG was trying to have her stay in the system by giving her options but it didn’t turn out the way FG would have e preferred.  (That makes sense.  Gabe is at least thinking rational, but it’s not like he has all of the answers, but he is providing the best options that he can come up with.)

Briana:  Definitely misguided. Her killing Negan and then dying herself wouldn’t have solved anything. Personally, if she’d have killed him in that moment, I think they would have just taken out everyone within the walls at the time. I don’t think there would have been anything left of Alexandria so it would have been counter productive for everyone. Gabriel being who he is these days, he’s probably telling her to do her own thing. He trusts her judgement for the most part even if he disagreed with that particular plan.  (Yeah, within the walls of Alexandria, that would have been like the Wolves’ attack, only with well armed individuals.)

Kristi:  Misguided. I think he is saying to balls up and do your damn job. That the group needs her. Her going out to do her own thing is on her. Hoping she will die doing because frankly, she annoys me.  (I like that rational of Gabriel telling her to do her job, more of a leadership role.)

Kent:  I think her anger is appropriate.  She is so hellbent on doing something that anybody that is in her way is a detriment to her, from her perspective.  She sees the aftermath and knows that she could have potentially ended it, but instead, let this guy get in her head.    We don’t know what would have happened had Lucille not stopped the bullet.  She knows that things would be better though.  I feel that Gabe’s message was, you basically came to me, I told you what you needed to hear to keep you alive.  Make your own decisions, but my advice will keep you alive.  My favorite line of the episode was: “But you were… and you did.”

 

  1.  Was now the right time for Tara to tell Rick about Oceanside given the circumstances?  Also, how do you foresee that situation going down?

Bitty:  I think it’s the right time.  I’m beginning to understand Tara’s character more.  She has always jumped from group to group and now she is choosing a “forever group” by telling Rick about Oceanside.  How is that situation going to go down? I have different ideas, maybe all the men from Oceanside are part of the Saviors now, or maybe Rick will talk with the Scavengers and make them go get the guns at Oceanside.  Either way I think Tara’s time will come when Oceanside is breeched.    (That last sentence gave me a clue.  I so hope she gets got.  I can see something similar to the Dawn and Beth scenario where Rick makes a peaceful deal, and the guns are trading hands for some food maybe, and one of the outraged women shoot Tara to finish the job.  I really hope so.)

Bob:  Oceanside folks could end up dead.  They tried killing Tara so that is their attitude.  I suppose morally Tara had to tell Rick because it was killing her inside.  (I can see that.  I can also seeing it get really built up with tension and nothing comes of it.)

Briana:  Yes. My biggest concern was that she might tell Rosita first and then she would have ruined everything but telling Rick is definitely the right thing to do. If they can make the right plan, it could work out even though there are big risks. I think they’ll send Tara in first since she knows them a little. Let her explain the situation and what’s going on and then send in the rest. That’s the only way I see it working out.  (Oh man, I would have loved it if Rosita would have found out first.  That would have led to an exciting episode.  I have gone back and forth on how they even start a conversation and if Tara is really the right person to send in first.  Hopefully they Ned Stark her.)

Kent:  No, she should have told Rick immediately and gotten those bitches massacred back when they an advantage of sorts.  Now is fine, but they have an even bigger disadvantage now.  Seriously, who is Rick going to bring for this?  Rosita and Sasha are going off on their journey.  Carol, Morgan, and Daryl are most likely busy.  So we will have Tara, Rick, Michonne, Gabriel, and Carl.  That’s a perfectly fine squad, but they could really use Carol for this one.  She would deliver.  I don’t know how this will go down. I feel that they wouldn’t attack if Judith was present, but that wouldn’t be Rick’s way.  Probably just a lot of Tara trying to be funny bullshit.  I don’t care to know, but I feel that we may get our answer in 2-3 weeks.

 

  1.   What was the most ridiculous thing that happened this episode?

Bitty:  Honestly the finding of the gun infested carnival.  Rick and Michonne couldn’t have traveled too far from Alexandria and the Saviors, how was this place not found already? Ridonkculous.  Also something comical from Talking Dead.  Andrew Lincoln describes Michonne killing 8 walkers as “Rickie Dickie” is trying to pull one walker out of a car.

Bob:  The zombie shooting the rifle was really dumb.

Briana:  Rosita and Sasha thinking they will be able to take Negan out on their own. Look I get it, these girls are bad ass! Like extreme chicks I could never measure up to but holy Christ man! You’ve got a whole crew of bad assery behind you, follow the mother effing plan! Those two are going to die this season and I have no doubts about it at all! At least one of them but most likely both. OH! Then there was the fact that the deer was so fake it was insane! Haha! There was no way to make that thing not look photoshopped in? Lol!  (That was one of the worst special effects, if not the worst, that they have done on the show.  It reminded me of time during the Bastard Bowl on Game of Thrones and there were so many shot that were too fake, and although the episode was good, it took me out of the moment at times.)

Kent:  Oh man, where to begin?  You have the sword toss, the walker who’s gun starts going off, the many callbacks to previous episodes, the deer not being startled by all the noise and commotion, the deer itself in all of it’s fakery, but let’s go with Rick using the hooked pole, which I am sure is not incredibly strong, as his weapon of choice.  

 

  1.  Was Rick’s car idea, to block off the walkers a good one, without the benefit of hindsight?

Bitty: Again, in the moment.  It’s their life and they make the choices, whether good or bad. It was a good plan.

Bob:  Oh my gosh, no.  That’s a case of over planning and arrogance.  (I’m glad that you bring up the arrogance thing.  That’s been a thing in this show, and every time that Rick gets too arrogant, something brings him back down to Earth.  Something bad is coming.  This half season, him and Michonne have taken on like 200 walkers and they just smile and giggle about it.  I think somebody has to pay for what Sasha and Rosita are about to do, and it could very well be a crippling blow.  Tara and Gabriel seem like 2 characters than can be killed and not affect any future storylines from the comic.)

Briana:  Yeah if it had worked, it was a decent plan! If he hadn’t gotten in the car when Michonne started pushing, they probably could have pulled it off. But you can’t help stop a car with out feet on the ground. And then of course the machine gun going off didn’t help matters but yes without hindsight I think it was a decent plan.  (They really could have used Fred Flintstone for this mission.)

Kristi:  Not a great idea but it worked out so..

Kent:  It was a good idea.  You can’t plan on the brakes not working.  Here’s what got me though.  Rick reaches in without checking to see if the walker was alive.  Like, season 1 Rick may have been that naive.  Season 7 Rick knows better, so what gives?  Really dumb writing there.  Don’t insult our intelligence.

 

  1.  Why were those walkers’ wrists tied up?  I don’t think that there is ever going to be an answer, but have fun with this.

Bitty:  I saw that! I paused it to double check that I was seeing it right. I agree that we probably won’t get any answers about this episode.  I think the demise of the Carnival was early in the change before people knew how to handle walkers.  I think the Military tied up “sick” people and either let them alone while they were deciding what to do with them or had an execution that went wrong.  (I like the execution gone wrong theory.  It would have been cool to have shown a flashabck for 3 minutes in the beginning about the carnival.  I miss opening backstories.  That is something that this show is seriously lacking at the moment.)

Bob:  I hardly remember this and being such a ridiculous episode…..  (I’m just glad that other people saw this episode as absurd as I did.  I got wondering, when I was writing these questions up, was it just me that saw the episode in that light.)

Briana:  Man! That had me wondering the whole time! What on earth was up with that? My theory is whatever this place was in the beginning, they turned on each other. Maybe the military guys decided they didn’t like having to take care of the non military people? That’s my best guess.  (Yeah, I could see them not wanting to share.  Panic does lead to irrational behavior….hello 2016.)

Kristi:  Their wrists were tied up? I need to start watching this twice. 🙂  (it does help me with my terrible memory to watch twice.  This wouldn’t be the best episode to start that policy with.  Next week’s should be fine though.)

Kent:  I know that there isn’t much to be taken from this, but I will think back to season 1 of Fear The Walking Dead.  The military had a quarantine, and kept people in cages.  It doesn’t take much imagination to see how this went.  Maybe they rounded up the healthy people who started an uprise, so the military took some down and tied up the rest.  Or maybe it was something straight out of Stephen King’s The Stand, and maybe this was some kind of entertainment for the military guys.  That would also be very cool, like have human carnival games.  

 

  1.  Who’s the better negotiator: Rick or Janis?

Bitty:  Janis is emotionless.  So far so good.  Rick is emotional which will get you killed in the apocalypse.  This brings me back to “we can live without each other” maybe Rick is learning this for real this time, making him a better negotiator.  (Yeah, reading this made me re-watch Rick pleading with The Governor prior to Herschel’s execution.  Rick handled that situation poorly.  Couldn’t they have just left the prison and tried to rebuild Woodbury?)

Bob:  Rick.  His presence of a personality and charisma, regardless of the emotionless Jar Jar Binks cult, and his forthrightness will typically win in the end.  You can read the “I will kill you” look.  (Insulting Jar Jar Binks will always result in applause on my end.)

Briana:  They seem very evenly matched but the fact that Rick was able to get double the guns he originally asked for makes me lean toward him. On the other hand, Janis has the opportunity to know he is good for his word and trust that he will be able to return with more. (I still think that she intentionally low balled him to see what kind of person that she was dealing with.  If he had just accepted the 10 guns, I don’t think they would have ever really helped Rick’s group.)

Kristi:  Rick. I kinda want to punch Janis.  (Have you ever seen any of Janis (Polly McIntosh’s movies?  I think you would dig of her films.  Totally unrelated, but screw it.)

Kent:  Let’s go with Janis.  She lowballed the hell out of Rick to see who exactly she was dealing with.  She was negotiating from a perspective of power while Rick while coming from a position of need.  Both got what they wanted.  I think Janis is happy to know that these people can end up being her allies.  I also liked that she wanted her cat back.  It was a fun touch that I am sure somebody else has touched upon.

 

  1.  What will be the outcome of Rosita and Sasha’s mission?  If anybody dies, who?

Bitty:  Death.  I’m hoping we lose Rosita and that Sasha survives.  However Rosita won’t die until we see a classic Eugene and Rosita scene.  (If they don’t have a Rosita and Eugene scene, this show would have F’d up majorly.  It’s very important in my opinion.)

Bob:  Sasha dies, Rosita joins the harem.  That means Negan lives.  (If she joined the harem, I am curious how quickly Arat would start hazing her.)

Briana:  Both! I kind of touched on this on the wrong question! Lol! But I think they will get caught one way or the other and they’re going to die. If I had to pick one, it’s Rosita.

Kristi: Rosita will hopefully die. Sasha is pretty badass and I hope she survives.

Kent:  Now my answer is far from definite, and I am trying to word this in a way that is without comic spoilers, despite there being no Sasha in the books, and Rosita never goes down this path, there is a similar story that has an awesome ending.  We know that Sonequa Martin-Green is going to have a big role in the upcoming Star Trek TV series.  When somebody has taken on a role that big, that is usually indicative that they are on borrowed time.  Also, she has not been on Talking Dead in awhile, and I think they are saving her and Christan Serratos for that episode.  I feel that Rosita’s character has become far too interesting to kill her.  On top of that, I like things about her character in the book that leads to Eugene becoming a better character.  I think Rosita is safe, and will get transported back to Alexandria, along with a lovely surprise, and the death of Tara or Gabriel.  A moral compass or 2 are going to get it this season.  I think Rosita needs her redemption storyline before her dies.  I also can see Judith in potential danger, but the longer she lasts, the harder it is to kill her.  They messed up by not having one of The Governor’s assaults kill her to make Governor more despised.

 

Bonus Deuce

  1.  Did I just watch a romantic comedy set in the zombie apocalypse?  More importantly, is a romantic relationship in the zombie apocalypse a strength or a liability?  Yes, I stole that from Talking Dead.

Bitty: I really liked this episode.  Yes, I know, classic Bitty form but I did! Honeslty I think everyone needs something or someone to love in order to have something to fight for.  Love is always a double edge sword you have something to hang on to and fight for but you have something to lose as well.    (Bitty, I would have bet my left testicle that you would have loved this episode.  I feel anybody who owns their own copy of Titanic probably enjoyed this episode.)

Bob:  bah.  You know it’s needed.  People live for relationships.  They are very important. (I agree with the bah part.)

Briana:  haha! I didn’t watch talking dead yet this time! So it’s new to me! I know you’re going to hate this answer but it’s truly both. It’s easy to find strength in someone you love but as we saw tonight, when that person is in trouble or when you’re put in a situation where your dependent on them and they can’t be there, it can really cause a problem. Sadly, I could see myself acting exactly as Michonne did when she thought Rick was dead. It’s not something you’d be able to control. But they sure do make a hell of a team! (It’s interesting that this episode aired, and on Tuesday, the comic for March was released.  The cliffhanger involves Rick’s special lady friend in the comic may have been bitten.  It’s not a spoiler for the show because it’s Andrea, so that’s not happening.  I also don’t think the show will last to the point that they currently are in the books.  The timing is interesting.  I think what you just said is why I wouldn’t want to have a significant other in the ZA, or at the very least, go out on missions with them.)

Kristi:  I dont think it was a romantic comedy.  The setting is definitely different.  There was certainly a romantic tone to the episode though. Are they just doing this for the folks that called the shows too violent? Thats possible.  (One episode per half season has to appeal to the “typical female demographic”.  I don’t say that to be a jerk, but in order to keep your audience, you have to offer a lowest common denominator type episode, and that’s what we really had here.  I do love the theory that this was a response to the participation trophy section of society.  I don’t think it is, but I can’t be sure on the filming timeline, so I like your idea better.)

Kent:  I know that they tried to have some levity, similar to the Rick and Daryl meet Jesus episode, BUT this just bombed for me.  Seriously, this was a chick flick set in the ZA.  This wasn’t as bad as the Oceanside episode, mainly thanks to Rosita and Gabe, but close.    So many stupid, utterly irritating moment that I’m sure some females just soaked up and now they talking about Richonne and relationships, or just ships for the millennial morons.  I really loathed this episode, and I probably am being a tad mean, which means that I should be a little more mean.  In the ZA, no romance.  Booty calls are cool.  Getting in good with somebody who is weaker than you is ok because you can always cut them loose and escape.  You don’t want to be on the weaker end of the spectrum unless you are with some pathetic white knight.  Then you milk that for all it is worth.  I really had to tidy up this response as it was originally much much meaner and insulting to readers.  Classy!

 

  1.  Have you ever secretly wished one of the good guy characters would die?  People like Spencer, who were generally disliked, don’t count.  

Bitty: Well at this point who is left from OG WD? Rick, Carl, Carol, Daryl and Maggie? So of those 5… NO WAY!!  (First of all, you left out Morgan who is only behind Rick on seniority, then Carl, Carol, and Daryl.  Maggie is technically 2nd season, but she has 6th highest seniority and Michonne appeared at the tail end of 2, so she is 7th.  After that it goes Judith and Sasha in 3, Eugene, Rosita, and Tara in 4, Father Gabriel, Aaron and eventually the rest of Alexandria in 5.  Judith having the 8th highest seniority really surprised me.)

Bob:  Not at all, not once.

Briana:  I feel that way now! Lol! I am so ready for Rosita to go I can’t stand it! She was alright when she was like Abe’s second but now she’s like a soldier without her CO and she’s gone totally off the rails. She’s dangerous and careless. And she just gets on my nerves.  (Sometimes I leave pointless comments.  This will be one of those times.  When you said CO, I’m like, why would Rosita need a corrections officer?  Yeah…..I have to admit when I am a moron.)

Kristi:  I was OK with Olivia dying. She was just not built for the war that is coming on. She would have died anyway. I think Negan did us a favor there.  (I don’t think anybody has spoke ill of Olivia, so good job.  I liked her, but she was a bit of a liability and totally expendable.)

Kent:  Well, it’s no secret that I wish for Tara to die every single week.  Honestly, I wanted Michonne to get bit here.  I have wanted Glenn dead numerous times in season 4-6.  I wanted Lori dead as soon as she started messing with Rick and Shane.  Andrea I wanted dead, but she is like Tara, I have hated her from the get go.  Beth, Noah, hell, Daryl at times all fit.  I really wanted Negan to smash Maggie’s dome in.  There’s really only a handful of characters that I haven’t secretly wanted dead.  They would include Merle, Abe, Governor, Herschel, Shane, Carol, Bob, and Shumpert.

All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.