This is the follow up to the 2003 Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and Michael Bay is still involved. Now, I need to clear up some confusion, this film is a prequel to the 2003 film. Not only that, but as of right now, these 2 films are in their own plane of existence and share nothing with any of the other 8 films. This will hopefully clear up some confusion, especially with the different names of the family, such as Hewitt and Sawyer and Hartman that you will see in others. I’m going to give you a synopsis that will contain spoilers and then provide you with my final thoughts as well as a rating.
This film takes place 4 years prior to the 2003 film. We see the birth of a baby, which would end up in the dumpster and then in the loving arms or R Lee Ermey’s wife, and of course that baby would turn out to be Leatherface. We have a decent cast of recognizable names. Our main group of young people includes: Chrissie (Jordana Brewster), Eric (Matt Bomer), Bailey (Diora Baird), and Dean. The great Lew Temple has a role early on as the Sheriff that Ermey kills and that answers how he became the sheriff in the previous film. Eric and Dean are brothers, and Eric has been to Vietnam and Dean has been drafted. Dean doesn’t want to go, but Eric is going and wants his brother to come. So there’s your back story.
The girls go into a store and raise the suspicions of some bikers. The group leaves and get chased down by this biker chick. There’s an accident and the sheriff shows up, shoots the biker chick and puts Eric, Dean, and Bailey in the cop car. Chrissie was thrown from the vehicle and hides. SO basically she spends the whole movie trying to rescue her friends. She goes so far as to recruit the biker chick’s boyfriend to help her, but he is only concerned about his chick and has the upper hand at one point, even shooting the wheelchair bound guy in the 2003 one, which leads to some surgery by Leatherface as ordered by Sheriff. As you know, nobody was going to really make it out of this alive. You know who the last person was going to be standing. I liked how Ermey had a bigger role. He was really a great change of pace antagonist and is everything that McConaughey wished his character was in part 4.
Final Thoughts – I felt that not a lot of people gave this the props that it deserved. This was really fun if you like the antagonists. The downside was that Eric and Dean were dull as fuck, and neither girl had much chance to have a big personality. I liked how they did the gag where the wife gave Sheriff his pants again. I liked the continuity more than anything. The other films up to this point lacked a lot of continuity. I am actually annoyed that this flew under my radar for so many years.
Rating: 6.6 Really good follow up if you liked the 2003 version. If not, you won’t like this either.
And just as I thought I was out, I get pulled right back in. OK, I willingly walked into this treat.
Let me start off by saying that for the life of me, I DO NOT understand the hate for this movie. I’m sorry, but people need to let shit go when it comes to remakes. They are here to stay. If you don’t want to see it, don’t watch it. BUT do NOT tell me that it’s a bad movie just because you are too hurt that a remake was made. Let’s look at the remake market for horror.
Nightmare on Elm Street – noble effort, wasn’t bad, destined to be hated because it wasn’t Robert Englund. That was a good shot, I’m not hating, but I prefer the original.
Friday the 13th – The remake was fantastic. Compared to the original, I will take the remake any day. That is not me saying that I don’t recognize the importance of the of the original, much like any of these, but this movie was way more entertaining.
Texas Chainsaw Massacre – Similar set up, very close ties to the original, and it was well done. Some days I prefer the original, some the newer, depending on if I want bloody or gritty. Both excellent.
Hills Have Eyes – New one is way more bloody and gory, still a lot prefer the original.
Amityville Horror – New one wasn’t bad, it just never properly resonated with fans like the original, and I am partial to the original as well.
The Shining – The biggest debate for true fans. You see, you have the people that instantly dismiss it due to it not being Kubrick, due to the length, due to Jack nicholson being replaced by Steven Weber, a lot of differences from one to the other. Here’s the thing, the new one is more like the book. If you prefer the book, you should invest some time in the made for TV miniseries remake because it is extremely well done. The biggest beef I have with the remake is that it isn’t as scary, it simply isn’t. Both are great.
Which leads me to Rob Zombie’s take on Halloween. This is THE BEST remake of the horror franchises, I do not accept any other answers. If you are pissed off that the family is white trash now as opposed to the original, well quite frankly it makes Michael’s descent all the more logical and reasonable. The original provides shit for a back story, and most people are actually satisfied with this? I firmly believe the haters went into this movie with a hate on and never gave it a fair chance. This movie has something called character development. Wow, what a neat fucking idea. You don’t like the characters? Too bad, they have dimensions now. The original characters were poorly fleshed out and I will fight somebody tooth and nail over this. Look how long it took to get to Michael killing people in this. Look at what you know by that point. His mom is a stripper, the kids at school pick on him for this, he likes pet rats, his step dad is a complete dickhead to everybody in the house and calls Michael gay and demeans the shit out of everybody. Well now, I can see how that kid may snap and kill some mother fuckers. Why did the original Michael Meyers go on a killing spree? ……….Waiting……….Still waiting……….I got all fucking day………..Oh, you don’t have a good reason. Well fuck you very much, go park yourself at the kid’s table with your hackneyed opinions and preferences. You can tell I have had a few conversations and read some really stupid people’s opinions on this movie.
So we have a backstory. William Forsythe’s dickheaded character gets got. The stupid promiscuous sister and her man get got. We see titties! Sherri Moon dances. This all happens prior to him being locked up. Are you kidding me? You are gonna complain about this? So Michael likes to have a mask on, makes him feel safer. Malcolm McDowell is Dr Loomis. Have I mentioned how great this cast is? The haters will bring up that it is a bunch of Rob Zombie retreads. Well ain’t that some shit. Who of his big stars before have huge roles in this? Sherri has an adequate role, and she’s hot. This certainly isn’t an issue. Tyler Mane is a beast of a man and is the best Michael in my opinion based on size and presence. Brad Douriff plays the main sheriff, and he’s a horror icon, ya know, the voice of Chucky. Danny Trejo plays my favorite character in this, and I so wanted him to live, and Michael ALMOST allowed it. Most heartbreaking scene in the film. Bill Moseley, the man who played Otis in the House and Devils Rejects, has a small role. Sid Haig, Captain Spaulding, also has a small roles. Other awesome actors in this include Dee Wallace, leslie Easterbrook, Ken Foree, Clint Howard, and Lew fucking Temple. Then you have Danielle Harris, who played Jamie in Halloween 4 and 5. What a great fucking cast!! Oh and the kid that portrayed young Michael Meyers was the fat kid that taunted Hancock, in that movie, Hancock.
If I haven’t sold you yet, then why are you even breathing? Unfortunately, the sequel wasn’t as good, some may say it was downright awful and began the downward spiral which led to the blah Lords of Salem. This movie though, this movie is a masterpiece that I think all horror fans should see. Oh and just in case I haven’t sold you, one final story.
My mom, who is now in her 60’s, she is the one that showed me the original Halloween and made me dig the franchise. I decided to show her this movie to see if she would like it or be a jaded old person who hates remakes. Without any influence, she tells me she enjoyed this one more due to character development and backstory. There you have it. This shit matters!
I give this movie an 8.3.
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This movie is almost universally hailed as a better and more likeable film than it’s predecessor, House of 1,000 Corpses. I’m hard pressed to argue it as this is a fucking great movie. It’s a movie that sucks you in. Even if it is background noise, I defy you to not find yourself gawking at this movie for minutes on end. I defy you not to get pumped when the words “Tuity fucking fruity” is uttered. The first time you realize that the tall goofy comedian (Brian Posehn) is in this and it feels right. Now you may watch it and suddenly recognize that Axel from the Walking Dead is in this. You may get a little mahogany in your pants when you hear Danny Trejo for the first time or realize that his sidekick is none other former WCW wrestler with the self high five, DDP. Or how do you ignore the guy going off on Elvis in defense of Groucho Marx? The shootout at the beginning. Sheriff Wydell being a fucking hoss all movie, he steals the movie oftentimes.
And of course I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention the 3 main stars of this. Captain Spaulding stealing the car and fucking with the kid. Hell the opening Captain Spaulding scene! Sherri Moon being a crazy, sexy, cool bitch, flirting with Roy, making the bitch hit the other bitch, and that ass. Of course I saved the best for last, my man Otis. I am gonna make a wrestling reference here, and I do apologize. Otis is the epitome of an old school heel who gets his heat by being a bastard, and is never concerned with being cool or likeable. The other 2 have their fans for various reasons, and that shit is cool. Otis is just a bad ass mother fucker, and he never lowers his character’s philosophy for a quick joke or cheap pop. To make another analogy, more suited for you horror fans. Otis is Freddy Krueger in 1, 2, and New Nightmare. Baby is him in part 3 and 4. Spaulding is 5 and Freddy’s dead. Yeah, that analogy felt more cathartic.
The other 2 things that need to be brought up is the storyline here is significantly tighter which made for better character development. This is key to the improvement between films. The other thing that is often overlooked is the music. What a great soundtrack! Midnight Rider, Funk No 49, Rocky Mountain Way, and of course fucking Freebird. How many horror movies, hell movies in general end on such an epic feel? Admit it, you was cheering on the bad guys despite knowing they had no chance, but you still pulled for them.
I realize as I talk about this, it is better than House. It just is. Rating? 8.0, possibly higher. It’s THAT fucking good.
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Yes, we are finally tackling this franchise! Most of us here are quite excited about this one. I say most of us as one of our contributors was not a fan of House, to say the very least. That’s not a bad thing though because it’s more fun to have some disagreement. If you find yourself agreeing with most of us, or if you think Chris has some valid points, leave us a comment. Any comments in bold will be made by Kent.
Let’s start off with an easy one. Who was your favorite character in House of 1,000 Corpses? Who is you favorite in Devil’s Rejects?
Kristi: Captain Fucking Spaulding in both films. I do like Otis more in Devils than in House but Captain Spaulding is the man, or clown, if you will. Chris: Doctor Satan. He looks like the prototype for one of the bad guys in a video game called Outlast. Rondo in DR, Danny Trejo is a badass
Teddy: I like Baby the most, but that’s because she is hot lmao
Cece: Captain Spaulding for sure. I also love Otis. For both.
Kent: Baby won me over in House. She simply was evil and sexy at the same time. Captain Spaulding probably comes in at #2 followed by Grandpa Hugo. As for Devil’s Rejects, it’s Captain Spaulding, but Otis is a very close 2nd and Sheriff Wydell was also pretty fucking good. This line from him always cracks me up. “Son, if you ever say another derogatory word about Elvis Aron Presley in my presence again, I will kick the living shit out of you!”
Name your favorite death from each film.
Kristi: House- Mother Firefly shooting the cop in the neck. It’s just a nice clean kill. Devil’s- Gloria. I know it’s obvious that Baby will kill her but it’s just unexpected and a straight shot to the heart.
Chris: Nash in House. The amount of time they make you wait with Walton Goggins on his knees is one of the only suspenseful parts of the movie. Wendy in DR, they did a good job with the aftereffects of a truck hitting a person like that
Teddy: Fish boy from house, and probably the I am the devil scene in the desert with Otis
Cece: House- I love Fish Boy. Rejects- probably the end scene.
Kent: Walton Goggins in the first one, just how it was filmed. I know that it was a bit controversial, but it really sticks with you. As for DR, the final shot. Something about long drawn out deaths seem to work for me. Plus Freebird kicks ass.
Did you consider House a rip off of Texas Chainsaw Massacre or more of a TCM for a new generation?
Kristi: I do not consider it a rip off at all. I think Rob did his own thing. He is a fan of all things horror so I think perhaps he had it in his mind but I really think he created this out of his own mind. Chris: RZ had no fucking clue what he was doing with House and it shows. He was definitely more coherent in The Devil’s Rejects and it shows. House tried to riff off of TCM amongst other horror movies, and failed miserably
Teddy: I mean that’s like saying the hills have eyes is a TCM inspired film. I feel like they’re their own thing.
Cece: I consider it more of an homage if anything. I love the TCM elements involved!
Kent: I definitely think it was an hommage. For fuck’s sake though, the ending was a tad bit of a rip off if we are going to be honest here. With that being said,I think it inspired people to go back and rewatch TCM and that’s a good thing.
Would you have any interest in a prequel to these films?
Kristi: Abso-fucking-lutely!!! Chris: No. Unless they got someone other than Rob Zombie and Sheri Moon to do them
Teddy: Nah prequels about horror movies never work out. Just listen to the songs plenty of a backstory there.
Cece: Hell yeah!
Kent: There is a part of me that would love more history behind the family, especially Dr Satan. But no, I don’t want a prequel. Prequels almost always require a whole different group of actors because they are younger. It sets up highly unrealistic expectations from fans, and it simply doesn’t work out nearly as often as it fails. As much as I would love more from them, this is a case where I want to leave greatness as is without expanding beyond the story told.
Give me your thoughts on Dr Satan in House of 1,000 Corpses.
Kristi: He is a sadistic fuck. I don’t think there is much more to say. Chris: I read in an interview once that Rob Zombie is hard to interview because he is so stoned he doesn’t think or speak coherently. The paper cut I got from the magazine I read that interview in gave me more enjoyment than watching House of 1000 Corpses. Who cares
Teddy: TBH they put soooo much hype around him just for him to barely be in the movie…also where the fuck did he go after House?? Like makes no sense
Cece: DOCTA SATAN!!!! Honestly, kinda cool. I wish they’d go more into his story.
Kent: All hype with very little substance. He seemed cool, and I wanted to know way more. Instead it was the horror version of a cock tease. The character is one of the biggest issues I have with this film. All of this hype and you finally get a taste, but it feels so empty when they deliver him. It saddens me because I wanted it to be cooler.
Who do you “cheer on” by the end of Devil’s Rejects: the cops or the killers?
Kristi: The killers. Mostly because I wanted to see another sequel. Chris: If you feel bad for the killers it might be time to start upping your meds. Also let me know when you’re in Florida so I can hide my family.
Teddy: The cops, despite Sherry Moon Zombie being hot like they were still fucked up killers, so no pity there.
Cece: Honestly, it’s like the almost make you feel bad for the Firefly family…
Kent: The killers, obviously. It’s a simple matter of getting to know their personalities over knowing very little about those officers. It’s that simple. If we had gotten to know both equally well, maybe it would be different. With that being said, I tend to side with the killers in these films anyway, so what can I say? Plus, by the end, you want another sequel really badly.
Give me a favorite line from one or both films. They are loaded. Yes, we all love Tuitu fucking fruiti, so give me another gem. Captain Spaulding alone has plenty of them.
Kristi: House- Fuck yo Momma, Fuck yo sister, Fuck yo Grandma, but most off all Fuck You!! Lets face it. That entire scene is fantastic! (This was going to be my answer.)
Devils-I’m gonna have to be taking your car today. See I have some top secret clown business that supersedes any plans that you might have for this here vehicle.
Chris: “I’m not calling you a chicken fucker, but that boy over there looks sexually frustrated, and I don’t approve of chicken fucking.”
Teddy: “There is no fucking ice cream in your fucking future” and “if you don’t got a reason you hate clowns I will kill your whole family”
Cece: House- Not really a line spoken, but I love Spaulding’s shirt, ‘If I wanted to hear an asshole, I’d fart’ Rejects- ‘The next thing out of your mouth better be some fuckin’ Mark Twain shit…’
Kent: House – Otis: [ranting to tied up cheerleaders] “Why”, you ask? “Why” is not the question. How? Now, that is a question worth examining. How could I, being born of such, uh… conventional stock, arrive a leader of the rebellion? An escapist from a conformist world, destined to find happiness only in that which cannot be explained? I brought you here for a reason, but unfortunately you and your sentimental minds are doing me no good! My brain is frozen. Locked! I have to break free from this culture of mechanical reproductions and the thick encrustations dying on the surface!
Devil’s Rejects – Candy: What you lookin’ at? Otis B. Driftwood: I’m lookin’ at you, mama. Candy: Yeah, you see something you like? Otis B. Driftwood: Maybe. I set my standards pretty low, so I’m never disappointed. Candy: Oh, well I don’t disappoint.
Otis B. Driftwood: You had to come all fuckin’ big stick, walkin’ tall, like a big fuckin’ hero. Got yourself to blame, hero. Look at you now, hero, you’re gonna fuckin’ bleed to death!
Baby: Just in case anyone’s interested, I think I’m gonna be wanting some ice cream in about 10 miles. Otis: [in a mocking tone] “I think I’m gonna be wanting some ice cream in about 10 miles.” Baby: Don’t you fucking imitate me, it’s fucking rude! [mocking] Baby: “I know what I know and I know I don’t like that nut sack… ” Otis: Fuck you. Baby: Fuck you! Captain J.T. Spaulding: Two fucking seconds for the kid, is that gonna kill you? Otis: Yes, it is going to kill me! I have calculated the time, and two seconds is the exact amount of time that is a hazard to my fucking health. Baby: What the fuck is your problem? I’m in and out in two seconds! Captain J.T. Spaulding: You know? I think I’m gonna get me some tutti fucking fruity. Baby: Tutti fucking fruity, that sounds good!
Which actress playing Mother Firefly did you prefer: Karen Black in House or Leslie Easterbrook in Devil’s?
Kristi: Karen Black! Chris: Karen Black. She made M.F. crazy instead of just slutty
Teddy: I have no preference, but the lady in devil’s was a hoe lmao
Cece: Karen Black, for sure!
Kent: Much like everybody else, Karen Black is the preference, but I am left wondering, If you switch what film they were in, would we change our tune? Was it the actress so much or was it the role that they were given and the story that each had to tell that is the preference? My guess is that we simply enjoyed teh character more in House than DR.
Would you consider this the high point in Rob Zombie’s film career with these 2 films, or just the beginning?
Kristi: I have to say yes. I enjoyed Lords- it gave me nightmares so I conclude that it was good. 31 was not as good as I hoped. I did enjoy his renditions of the Halloween flicks. Getting to see more of young Michael and more of the story inside the asylum and his relationship with Dr. Loomis was great but I remember when House came out and I was infatuated with this flick! Chris: I remember liking Rob Zombies music. I remember being excited before House came out. I remember seeing it and being like this is the biggest piece of shit I ever payed money to see. I never bothered with the Devil’s Rejects because of this. Talking with Kent about this before I rewatched House I wondered if my opinion would have changed with time. Nope. It still fucking sucks. Between the shitty cinematography, plot, acting, relative lack of gore, lack of a point, etc. it is still pretty much one of the worst movies I have seen. That being said The Devil’s Rejects surprised me. It wasn’t bad. With another director I think it could’ve been great. There was a good soundtrack, characters seem to have developed only one personality, and it had a plot. I have heard mixed reviews about his Halloween’s and almost nothing good about his later efforts. So yes this probably was his hey day
Teddy: I feel like this is his middle ground. Halloween 1 was his peak. Halloween 2 doesn’t exist to me.
Cece: Most definitely. I loved these two films and the first Halloween. Once Halloween 2 came, I stopped really following his movies. I feel like he dropped off.
Kent: I think DR is great and probably my favorite of his films, but I think Halloween was his pinnacle. After that, boy did it go downhill. I am not as hard on Halloween 2 as others are. I accept it’s many flaws and simply try to enjoy it now, but I understand all the criticisms and didn’t enjoy the film the first time that I saw it in the theater, which was the only one of his films I saw in the theater. Lords of Salem and 31 were both incredible disappointments and whoever was helping Rob with cinematography and edits and stuff from DR and Halloween 1 must no longer be around. Simple as that. Huge drop off.
Pick a type of horror sub genre that you would like Rob Zombie to make a film out of, like vampires, haunted houses, found footage.
Kristi: Found footage. He seems to do really well with the gore factor. I’m not a huge fan of found footage movies but if it was more like Roanoke where the camera was steady but still told the story, I would dig it. Chris: I pretty much dislike everything he has done, so none. Let him stick to music, where I can appreciate him
Teddy: Tbh I want to see him take on a stephen king novel. Maybe he could take on something like thinner or the stand.
Cece: To be fair, I’d like to see his actual take on a TCM remake. BUT, I’d like to see an almost re-telling of a real life serial killer too.
Kent: I’d like to see his take on the film The Snowtown Murders, that seems like something that he could handle. Something cult based could be fun. I’d also really love to see where he would take a House on Haunted Hill style film and see what crazy shit he could come up with.
Pick a favorite song from these 2 films.
Kristi: House- Little Piggy by the man himself- Rob Zombie Devil’s- Rocky Mountain Way- Joe Walsh Chris: I never knew Michael Damian’s version of Rock On in the ‘it’s was a remix. So I’ll.go with David Essex’s original, I liked the slowed down beat and the minor key it’s in compared to the one I grew up with. The Devil’s Rejects had a pretty great soundtrack altogether
Teddy: I honestly don’t know any songs from here but I’m a fan of the devil’s rejects and house of 1000 corpses by Zombie himself
Cece: House- I guess I’ll pick ‘Pussy Liquor’ by Zombie and Rejects, ‘Midnight Rider’ by Gregg Allman.
Kent: Brick House in House, for sure. Devil’s had way more options for my taste in music. Midnight Rider, Fuck No. 49, Rocky Mountain Way, and Freebird. Freebird seems like a given, but I have always been a huge fan of Funk No. 49. The way that all 4 of those songs were used in the film were incredibly well done.
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Welcome everybody to the only TWD blog that thinks that having a tiger makes you a good leader, The Walking Dead 9 Deuce. Every week, I say positive things, because how else are you supposed to sell yourself to an audience, right? Sometimes though, there just isn’t enough substance from the episode, or perhaps I ask terrible questions, or maybe I am short on contributors that week. My point is that it’s tough for me to try to find a way to truly differentiate to an audience when we have a really great edition, but I truly believe this is easily, one of the 3 best ones that this site has ever done, and I’m really happy with it. Of course, I’m an ego maniac, so oftentimes, I feel that this blog may need my touch. This week, I feel that if I didn’t add a single comment and just asked the questions, the responses were good enough to absolutely carry this. That’s awesome from my perspective. I’m thrilled when I am part of a project where I feel it’s great enough without my contributions, that it can stand on it’s own. So I just really want to give a heartfelt thank you to everybody who reads this, but especially to my people that take time each week to do this thing. They don’t get paid, they just do it to help me out. So thank you so much Briana, Bob, Bitty, Teddy, Cece, Kristi, and Chris. No matter what ridiculous things I say to them in the comments, they keep on keeping on.
This is a super busy weekend for me, thanks to Wrestlemania as well as this being the season finale weekend. Please, if you like wrestling or know somebody who happens to like it, let people know that this blog exists. Finally, I have some exciting news. Starting this month, we are going to start a new monthly blog. It may end up being more frequent, depending on who wants to join in, but for now, it’s like a horror movie of the month blog feature. It’s very similar to this, where I’ll ask my 9 questions and 2 bonus ones at the end. For April 2017, we will be watching one of the all time greatest horror flicks, Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining. If you don’t own it, it is available on NetFlix. If you, or somebody that you know is a horror fan and likes to express themselves, send them my way. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce. Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else. If you would like to participate, let me know. The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits. Please note all messages in bold are written by me. Thank you and please enjoy this blog and enjoy Sunday’s season finale.
If you could change any one aspect of this particular episode, what would you change, or would you keep it as is?
Briana: I would have wanted the Oceanside women to follow instead of just letting them take their guns and sitting back waiting for our guys to do all the work for them. (So this seemed to be the most popular nitpick of this episode, so this also goes for Teddy and Chris’ comments as well. TWD tries it’s best to be a relatively “progressive” show with strong female characters. I was very surprised by this. I was hoping that they would so Negan could kill some of the more annoying ones, but that’s because I’m a jerk.)
Bob: Gregory failing to kill a walker. No matter the value of this scene, I feel Gregory had a chance to work his way toward becoming a Gregor Clegane Instead of a Greg Heffley. (Strong start here for Bob. My love for Gregor Clegane knows no bounds. Greg Heffley, for those who don’t know the reference is not like the Hefty brand garbage bags, but is instead wimpy, wimpy, wimpy. Gregory basically pulled a pro wrestling heel move when the good guy is like “We don’t have to wait until this Sunday, we can do this right here in (insert current city’s name)! Then the heel would pretend like he was going to step up, but then run away like a coward.)
Bitty: I would’ve changed how timid Enid was. I want to see her stronger and more outgoing. Yes she held her own gun and did well but I want her to start shining more. (Remember when there was all that buzz around Enid being with the Wolves? Yeah, me neither. Enid is a cool character and since she’s not in the comic, I hope they make her a better character than Sophia is in the books. She’s going to be tough to do after the war, I feel, but if they get rid of some of these lesser characters, then hopefully they make her awesome.)
Teddy: I wish Oceanside would help honestly, but I understand their fear.
Cece: The episode, although some action, moved very slowly. I’m not sure how it could have improved but it was a bit boring. (I was expecting more than one person to say this. It was painfully plodding at times. I’m all for great, slow burning storytelling, but this type of episode, along with the Richonne episode and the OG Oceanside episode were just placeholder episodes. They knew where they wanted to end the season, what pivotal scene, and realized that they had to stretch things out. In my opinion, more time could have been spent with the Scavengers, their backstory, an update on Sherry’s whereabouts, and Heath’s story. Also, any time spent at the Kingdom is time well spent, or seeing more Hilltop stuff. You may not agree with my choices, but I think most people would agree that time could have been spent wiser this season to tell better or different stories.)
Kristi: I was really hoping the walker would have killed Gregory. (Man, you really hate this man. That’s awesome. I feel the same about Tara. I’m curious which one of us will get our wish first. I think I have worst odds as Gregory is seemingly on borrowed time, whereas Tara is a wild card.)
Chris: Oceanside would have joined team Rick. I hope they still do at some point.
Kent: Tara would have been shot, at least 92 times.
Do you think Negan really wants Sasha to be a member of the Saviors or to simply use her in some way to get back at Rick?
Briana: Maybe a little of both. But mostly to get back at Rick. Having her join in the first place helps him mess with Rick but I assume there’s a grander plan afoot. (Nice, I think that is the first time that the term afoot has been used in this blog space. You’re right, just having Sasha in any capacity, whether she is held against her will or as a potential Savior, would mess with Rick.)
Bob: I am thinking this is just psychological torture. Negan does not need Sasha other than to hurt Rick. Negan knows Sasha will not become a Savior. And Negan is making Sasha feel like she has power and she has NONE. (Good point about manipulating her to think that she has some choice or power. Negan played it really well. I am suspicious if he had anybody keeping tabs on Eugene to see where his loyalty lies. It would only make sense, but it wasn’t something that they showed us.)
Bitty: Negan just wants to use Sasha as a bargaining chip in the end. Negan is not stupid and knows a smart strong woman when he sees one. (I don’t know if I would call her smart. I mean, she ran into Sanctuary like a crazy bitch. She is strong. Arat on the other hand….)
Teddy: Negan likes badass women, he likes to wed said badass women. (I’m just saying, if Sasha went and joined the Saviors and had Negan’s baby, I would be really happy.)
Cece: It’s always about getting back at Rick and the gang. (Isn’t it kinda silly to think that is the picture that they have painted for us? We, the fans, obviously know the threat level of Rick’s posse, but I am trying to think on a bigger scale, does Negan really sit there and worry about F’ing with Rick? Negan is in a pretty good place, I don’t know if he should be all that worried. Obviously, this is a TV show so the good guys have to win, but if you try to consider the reality of it, I don’t think Negan would care. If he did, he would have just killed the threat. Maybe I am overthinking this. OK, no maybe about it, but I’m trying to think outside of the show’s scope.)
Kristi: He is a smart guy. I don’t think he believes she will truly join me. He will try to use her to get intel on Rick but I think she will choose death before that happens. (Yeah, that is also interesting. We know the group branched off to different places, but what does Negan really know? I think it is safe to assume that Negan is still under the impression that everybody from the infamous lineup are still together, which by and large they are, but still, it’s something that I wondered.)
Chris: It’s hard to say with Negan. Probably both? He loves breaking people down. He probably likes Sasha for the same reasons he likes Daryl. (I’m glad that you brought that up. I was wondering what Negan saw in Sasha. Like, he knows that Daryl was an emotional bad ass. He doesn’t know much about Sasha other than she infiltrated Sanctuary and gunned down some people. He doesn’t know that she is a hell of a sniper. I am curious if he seems similar potential in her as he saw in Daryl or not.)
Kent: I say that he doesn’t see any potential in her being a Savior. First of all, he didn’t play her any Easy Street, which pisses me off. That alone is a solid reason. He’s not trying to break her in the way that he did with Daryl and assuredly others. The other thing that I considered is that there is no rhyme or reason for Negan to ever trust her to be a Savior. She came in guns ablazing. He can’t trust that, he’s not dumb enough to do that. With Daryl, he saw similar emotional weakness that Dwight exhibited, and thought that he may be able to break him and build up a loyal servant. They are 2 very different scenarios. One last thing that I feel like bringing up is Sasha’s selfish ways. Everybody gives Rosita shit but Sasha gets a free pass. Why? They are very similar situations. Rosita got Olivia killed and Eugene captured. Sasha got herself captured, and is going to result in 2 deaths, most likely. On top of that, she may have just royally screwed over Eugene, because I theorize that somebody saw Eugene hand Sasha the baggie. So why is Sasha being given a free pass? Because she’s more likable than Rosita to the masses. Sasha not killing herself after her failure and then trying to persuade Eugene was a bitch move. It has to be acknowledged.
Was it wise to leave Oceanside with no guns?
Briana: Not for Oceanside. It doesn’t hurt our guys at all but it definitely leaves them vulnerable. But I think they had a choice. If they didn’t want to be left completely without guns, they could have just gone with them and helped fight. Then they wouldn’t be gunless lol. (I really enjoyed your logic, and it made me think of this quote from an all time great film, Reservoir Dogs. “Yeah, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. I told ’em not to touch the alarm… but they touched it. If they hadn’t done what I told ’em not to do, they’d still be alive.”)
Bob: Alexandrians didn’t leave Oceanside with no guns – they left with all of their guns! 🤣 OMGosh This is the world they live in. Remember, if you aren’t with a group you are against them. So leaving any guns with Oceanside is an endorsement of failing to follow the group and, “OH YEAH!” drink the koolaid! (Really, you just had to go there. To go back like 15 years and say “oh no you didn’t”. The whole theory that if you aren’t with them, then you’re against them is pretty spot on, or the enemy of my enemy is my friend. It does make me wonder how everything settles down between communities after the impending war is over. Also, kudos for Kool Aid references.)
Bitty: The majority of the guns were locked up!! So yeh take the ones that were in the shed but leave them with the one s on their person. This way of some of the Oceanside members changed their mind and came to fight with Rick they would be armed. (As pointed out in this blog, I think there is some sentiment that had Oceanside been left with some of their guns, the Alexandrians and Jesus run the risk of retaliation. Really, what they did was a pretty F’d up thing to do to the Oceanside community.)
Teddy: Well depends, if they truly want out of the fight then that would be the best thing. However if the Saviors find out they helped them then they fucked themselves. (Am I the only person that finds this whole Oceanside community thing a tad contrived? We sometimes talk about the organization of the Saviors. Like, shouldn’t they have been hunted down from the very beginning? If you’re Oceanside, at this point, I say that you feel pretty good all things considered. If Oceanside is discovered, they are pretty much boned no matter what.)
Cece: Not really. They could have taken a few and it would still have been fine. Anyone against The Saviors is best. (In a fair and just world, perhaps, but would you really chance it if you are Rick, and leave Oceanside with some weapons?)
Kristi: Didn’t she say to take the guns? I think I missed something here. (Good chance of it, but honestly, it’s not terribly high on the importance scale, so you’re fine.)
Chris: Probably not, but Alexandria needed the guns. If they don’t take the guns, the Saviors kill everyone anyways. (That’s really the gist of it all. Oceanside with guns won’t stop the Saviors, zero chance. Rick’s group is something higher than a zero chance, so it makes sense.)
Kent: I enjoy how there are slight variations on how people took the question. Some looked at more from Oceanside’s perspective and others took it from Alexandria’s. It wasn’t intended that way, but I am glad that it did. I still question whether they should have simply slaughtered the Oceanside folks. If they aren’t going to be involved in the war, what purpose do they serve for storyline purposes? Or why not consider the option of bringing them to the Kingdom? If the Saviors never come into the Kingdom, then they should be fine. Hey, if it’s good enough for Daryl Dixon, it’s good enough for Oceanside.
Why did the Alexandrians waste those explosives for this takeover?
Briana: In order to do it without hurting anyone. They knew these people were as much victims to the Saviors as they are, if not more so. So this wasn’t about doing damage, just getting what they needed. The explosive worked perfectly for that. (Isn’t it a tad hypocritical of the group, or moreso the writers, when they sometimes show the group as willing to do anything by any means necessary to survive, and then other times, go great lengths to avoid killing an innocent? Like, they were very cool with the idea of not only killing all of the people in that outpost, but then to still take supplies from Hilltop. Total dick move, but it was a worthwhile risk. The writers really manipulate the fans to suit the show’s needs.)
Bob: Pomp and Circumstance. They saved all the lives of OS but also showed power and strength in hopes of having them join them. It was a way of showing them how Ill prepared they were for any attack, especially from Negan. (If you could include Pomp and Circumstance in next week’s season finale blog, I would be very appreciative. It always gets me to watch Macho Man videos. Good point on showing them how ill prepared they were. I like that take, and now wish to proclaim that I came up with it first, but I shall not.)
Bitty: I think there are more explosives. And at this point if the Alexandrians don’t know how to make them they shouldn’t be alive in the apocalypse. (This is a Tale of 2 Kitties, I mean Tale of 2 Answers. I am 100% behind you, but like not too close, regarding your first statement. The second part though, it took me aback. Is this required knowledge for the apocalypse? Now you have me wondering just how ill prepared I am for the ZA. I gotta start learning how to make explosives. I was totally looking forward to the ZA, but now you have shaken my confidence.)
Teddy: Scare tactics. Best way to put down people already scared. (I just really liked this answer. That is all.)
Cece: They wanted to make sure they had their attention. Not too sure they really NEEDED to use them. I think they could have ambushed or something and it would have been the same. (You are the only person here that really potentially questioned if they needed to use them, so you get a point. Well Bob kind of alluded to it, but he got me sidetracked.)
Chris: It was either that, or they would have wasted an enormous amount of bullets. The explosives were able to create a distraction, which allows Rick and co. to catch everyone without having to kill. (I hate the fact that I agree with your point regarding wasting bullets because that means that there is a hole in my argument. Thanks, I don’t even know you, but thanks. Haha.)
Kent: I hate this question because it hurts my head. First of all, they didn’t have Rosita, the explosives expert with them, so there’s a fail. There is no reason that they couldn’t have gone in and taken the group out like they did at the outpost, and saved the explosives for an actual threat. This was stupid theatrics at it’s finest so people can have an explosion. Terrible.
Why didn’t anybody, aside from Natania (The leader), “rise up” against the Alexandrians, especially when the walkers started coming toward them?
Briana: I think most of them know they can’t continue this type of life forever. Everyone wants some sort of normalcy and they’ll never have that really unless they can break away from this hiding and killing everything that moves mentality. Alexandria is their way out of this lifestyle and revenge for their families lost. Natania is stubborn and probably the one who came up with the plan to hide away in the first place. (2 things. 1. In the ZA, half of that phrase is apocalypse, so I have never understood why people think that they can just survive the apocalypse. That’s a heavy word, yet we all think about it. 2. Isn’t it a shame that Natania and Gregory may never meet? Both of them think of themselves incredibly highly, and responsible for keeping their respective groups alive. I want 9 minutes and 2 seconds of them just having a sitdown negotiation.)
Bob: Most of OS is done rising up. They have no Eye of the Tiger ferocity with their current living in fear. OR maybe they are all tired of having their periods the same days every month and we’re in the midst of that cycle except menopausal Natania. (True story, I read this and legitimately raised my hands and shoulders up a bit acknowledging that there is nothing that I can add to this perfect answer. I was very impressed.)
Bitty: Oceanside is a group of women whose men were torn away from them. When they see a group of strong men and woman they will naturally gravitate towards them. Maybe the leader, Natania, had a different story. Maybe she wanted to rid herself of her man. (Ohhhhh, I like that too. Maybe she was in a Carol-esque relationship. Thinking outside the box.)
Teddy: They probably saw them as they saw the Saviors? Could’ve triggered some ptsd issues. (Good call. That seems perfectly reasonable.)
Cece: I’m not sure. I honestly think they’re just used to their own way of living. And of course the walkers are everyone’s common enemy. (To comment on the walkers, I have heard whispers that the walkers aren’t everyone’s common enemy. Sorry, I had to.)
Kristi: They are tired of giving in to the Saviors. They are considering joining Rick and the crew to f some stuff up 🙂 (I know that you are very particular about your music, so I apologize if this song doesn’t meet your lofty standards, but I instantly started singing in when I read your response.)
Chris: I think because most of them agreed and want to fight the Saviors. (Really, out of all of the communities, they seem to have the lousiest day to day living conditions, and I think that’s gotta be a factor.)
Kent: Man, everybody is killing it with the responses this week, and I am sitting here thinking, nah, I have nothing to really offer. I was going to say that she seemed like a woman who has had a hard knock life, much like that ginger orphan. I didn’t have a backstory, and then what Bitty said made a lot of sense. I picture her as never really having a voice pre-apocalypse, and now that she has some power, she doesn’t want to relinquish it. The rest of the OC, I mean OS have nothing to really lose in joining Alexandria’s cause, all things considered.
Sooooo, do you still think Eugene has some master plan or are you starting to believe that he is Negan?
Briana: Yep he’s just the coward we all thought he was and he’s just trying to save himself and join the team he assumes will win. With the Saviors he has comfort and respect he didn’t have in Alexandria. (I tend not to be combative with you, but does playing it smart really equate to being a coward? He saw what “bravery” got Abraham and Daryl, and sure it fit their characters and some people may have respected Abe more, but Eugene is alive. Brave and smart tend not to go hand in hand as often as we would like to see it I suppose, but I think there is some bravery in playing this game that he is currently.)
Bob: The show wants us to believe that Eugene is Negan. This episode convinced me he is not just because we are due for a surprise. Eugene is just mapping everything out in his head and Sasha’s attack puts her (yes, her) life at risk. She isn’t part of the plan. She is the π that has no end point and fouls up Eugene’s algorithm.(Man, I love Pi.There’s an interesting movie directed by Darren Aronofsky, who has gone on to make some amazing films. I agree, Sasha screwed herself and Eugene would be wise to not alter course on his plan.)
Bitty: I wish we saw more of Eugene inside the walls. If we saw more of his story I could speculate better. I am still hopeful Eugene will help Rick in the finale. (I am pro more Eugene. Aside from Gabriel, I don’t think there is a character that developed as much as Eugene did this season so far. Rosita is in that discussion as well. I still think that he has a hell of a story yet to tell.)
Teddy: I still believe he is smart, but I still believe he is chicken shit at times. (Sure, he is chicken shit. Wouldn’t you be if you had his physical capabilities and the knowledge of your limitations? I would, and I have no shame in that.)
Cece: I think he is probably going to end up on Negan’s side. Someone from Alexandria will probably have to pry him from there because he seems too scared to try anything slick. (ohhhh, we have somebody who thinks that he is on Negan’s side. This is exciting. I like getting some opposing views, and quite frankly, if he is Negan, doesn’t that make this whole story infinitely more interesting than the expected “face turn” for him? I love the story that the comic tells, and knowing that the war must end at some point, I would rather have an alive Eugene than a dead one, BUT there is something to be said for a truly great bad guy. I still miss The Governor. I root to see Simon and Gregory every week. Hell, I want to see more Gavin and Dwight. Eugene turning heel, that’s Hogan joining the NWO back in the 90’s level. A guy who became underappreciated and said screw it, if I can’t get the recognition that I feel that I deserve, I’m gonna do me. I should also note that Cece and Teddy has helped me out for Wrestlemania weekend, so just saying, check that shit out.)
Kristi: I still think he has something up his sleeve. (Fortunately, he always seems to have sleeves while in Sanctuary.)
Chris: I hate to say it, but he is unequivocally Negan. (Oh shit, we got 2 people on board this Negan train. Exciting! I wish I knew more about you personally so I could integrate some kind of joke or reference, but I don’t, and I just feel that an Annakin reference is too simple. Feel free to tell me what things you are into so that I can attempt to do better.)
Kent: Hell naw. He is playing this the only way that he can at this moment if he hopes to live a better life than Oceanside ladies. Plus, this is really helping to build up his confidence. I know that people’s perspective of him is somewhat of a coward, Bri and others have said so. I question if it has more to do with confidence. Less confident people shy away from certain tasks or obligations, and tend to fall in line more. He’s definitely an introvert, and I fully believe that he says things in hopes of not being asked to talk too much I really would love to sit down and simply analyze Eugene’s psyche at some point.
Soooooo, do you still think that Gregory lacks the testicular fortitude to pay a visit to Sanctuary? Everybody here said that he was lacking in that department.
Briana: I definitely think he’s lacking balls in a major way but do I think that’s going to keep him from paying Negan a visit? Nope! He’s planning to head there now! However, I don’t think it’s going to be a bravery trip. I think he’s going there to throw himself at their mercy and, like Eugene, join the “winning side”. Probably even sell Maggie and the rest of them out. (I like everything that you said, and yet, I start singing Sell Out by Reel Big Fish. I listen to music while doing this for hours. I gotta say, you paint an interesting picture that I can totally see playing out, and I would enjoy that. True story, Little RIchard’s “Lucille” just came on. This song has become so much cooler thanks to Negan.)
Bob: He is going and is going to report some stuff. I am not convinced the show has us on equal timelines between communities. (Ding ding ding. The show plays with our minds on the time frame of events How much time has really passed since the infamous lineup? We know that Rick and Michonne spent some time. Has this season played out over the course of a week or a month? I think that it is smart to not let us know, in the same way that it’s smart to not give us a definitive map.)
Bitty: Gregory needs to get chained to the fence in Negan’s courtyard. (This isn’t Black Snake Moan, but if Samuel L Jackson showed up for just one episode, or even Timberlake or Ricci, I’d be down with that.)
Teddy: Gregory is still a bitch. Negan does not like that shit. Remember what happened to Spencer. (This isn’t really related, but I gotta say, it is nice to have somebody use similar language that I use on a day to day basis. I think the Spencer incident was meant to actually serve as some foreshadowing, or a pre-cursor.)
Cece: He would never go out of his way to get there. Hell no. He’s a total pussy and obviously doesn’t even know how to kill a walker, let alone some evil dudes at The Sanctuary. (While I concur, despite me trying to argue for Gregory every week, you make me really wonder about something. Like, what is he really hoping to say to Negan, or what is he hoping to get out of the deal? If we take the Spencer incident out of mind for a moment, I have only one real idea. In his mind, he thinks that his loyalty has value, but he’s not considering the fallout of asking for help, or looking weaker than normal. Negan appears to prefer to work with stronger willed leaders who have the respect of their respective group. It seems like Gregory should know that, but maybe I am over thinking it.)
Kristi: He can’t even kill a walker. He is testicular-less.. He really just needs to go away. (I think part of me keeps asking Gregory questions just to see your responses. It’s almost a guilty pleasure. Yeah, you can flip me off for that.)
Chris: I think he will feel like he has no choice. He has already lost his people to Maggie. He will do whatever it takes (besides doing any of the dirty work himself) to be the leader. (Well I wish I had read your response before I typed my response to Cece, but it goes hand in hand. So I will pose the same question to you, is Gregory truly that oblivious to what Negan looks for, or would you say that he knows, but he is a last ditch desperation act?)
Kent: I told you that he would go. I got tons of hate mail for saying it. I was right. (Okay, I didn’t get any hate mail. Nobody even really acknowledges that my answers exist, so it’s cool. I just want to reiterate, as Gregory would, that I was right.)
Do you think that Dwight will betray the Alexandrians before this is all done?
Briana: I don’t know. As much as I can’t trust Dwight, I also think he really does want to be out from under Negan. I think he wants his wife back and his identity back. So I do think his intentions are true as of right now but it is incredibly possible he will betray them at some point for something. (You just gave the most American response possible. You said one thing, but left enough room for the other possibility to occur. It reminds me of South Park’s 100th episode. I think it was called “I’m a Little Bit Country” and was the 4th episode of season 7…I think. You’re right, in this moment, his intentions are true.)
Bob: With the limits already set in the show, no. Dwight said he wanted Negan dead. He means Negan, not communal Negan. That is his only word. Anything else is up for grabs and free will, so no, he will not be “betraying” the Alexandrians. (Sometimes your responses make me have to reread my initial question to see how thoroughly you deciphered it. I really like that. When I hear the term “free will” it reminds me of The Devil’s Advocate with Keanu and Pacino. Oh and Charlize Theron at her pinnacle of hotness, plus the dude who played Coach, Craig T Nelson. A young Heather Matarozzo, the girl in the very beginning, who is a cool actress. My favorite person in it though is the incomparable, Jeffrey Jones. That guy has been in so many great things and he kills it every time.)
Bitty: Yes. He will want to help the Alexandrians and will for a bit but as soon as he comes face to face with Negan he will crawl back to him. (I’m actually surprised that you’re the only one that said this in particular. We have seen Dwight crawl back in various ways in the past, so why would this be any different? More importantly, how dumb would the Alexandrians have to be in order to trust this guy? )
Teddy: Meta gaming: yes. How this is playing out: I still see it being too soon for Dwight’s babyface flip (I wanted to provide a more modern day, well done face turn. The thing is, face turns, by and large, are not done well nowadays. I have been sitting here, scratching my bald head trying to come up with a really good one. The best I have is The Shield turning on HHH and Evolution 3 years ago. I don’t know whether to feel bad that I am forgetting some good recent ones, or if WWE has simply took the joy out of a face turn. Jericho had his turn, but it wasn’t in that organic way of the 80’s and 90’s.)
Cece: From what it seems like, yes. I believe he’s still sour from what Negan has done to him and I believe he wants to truly be a good person. (This applies to you, Kristi, and Chris. Why now? That’s the only real question on my mind. Is it simply due to Sherry running away, or what he had to do in regards to Dr. Carson? I get that everybody has a threshold. I hope that we get a bit more on the why in the finale.)
Kristi: No, I think he is tired of Negan’s crap.
Chris: Hopefully not, but Dwight is kind of a wildcard. I think his wanting Negan dead will keep him loyal to Rick.
Kent: I want to say, I was watching some of the TWD marathon on Saturday night, and I was watching the Carl episode. I realized, and I fully believe that it was intentional, but Sherry is, from my perspective, by far the hottest of Negan’s wives. I know that it’s obviously a matter of taste and whatnot, but really, Sherry is a knockout comparatively. I feel that they did this so that a typical man would see a hot chick and somehow pull even more for Dwight to get the hot chick back. Seriously, this is the kind of analysis that I offer. Dwight will appear to betray the group because Daryl needs something for next season, and I think that will be his main crux. Also, are we led to believe that Dwight landed that hot of a chick? Just putting that out there.
Everybody seems to love Ezekiel and loathe Gregory. People have said that Gregory is useless and that he is a coward. Is there a double standard here between the 2 guys? Please explain.
Briana: No. I think Gregory has proven himself to be a coward. Ezekiel will do what needs to be done to protect his group even if he doesn’t always make the right choices right away. Gregory would give up anyone anytime to save himself. I’m actually not sure whatsoever how he became their leader. (Well, I think that brings up an excellent point. Why craft a character like Gregory, but then never give us a few flashbacks of his story so that we can see how he rose to power? It would provide us with a better understanding, and maybe some appreciation. Who knows? Maybe he was a good leader initially until some things went so far awry that it changed him. Maybe he was a sneaky conniving coward from day one. I wish they would give us that info. Either way, it would make his story far more interesting. Currently, he’s been represented as very one dimensional, which is a shame. Even with the Governor, you may not have liked his tactics, but you can see why he did what he did.)
Bob: Kent. Ezekiel has a cool name and a Tiger and has witticisms written all over the place. Gregory has his name and a nice house. Both are being driven to act. Each group has what they have, but The Kingdom HAS this far kept the Saviors from entering it’s walls. Gregory has been abused and abused. There isn’t a double standard unless you root for the sisters of the poor. (OK, so I had to look up sisters of the poor, because I am not a worldly man. Really, you had me at cool name and a tiger, but then the sisters thing really sealed the deal.)
Bitty: We haven’t seen Gregory do anything productive. His people didn’t know how to protect themselves and they just serve the Saviors. However, Ezekiel is a strong leader and seems to always be in the public eye. He has an “army” who is willing to fight, he goes out on runs and he is just a better leader all around. (I really love your point about how Ezekiel appears more often in the public eye. Once again, that is shown to make us draw some conclusions as to his character. That’s a really good point.)
Teddy: Ezekiel goes out and gets shit done. He works with the Saviors but does not bow down. Ezekiel cares about his “subjects”, Gregory just wants to pee on everything. (Back to the peeing on things! We have continuity. To go with what I said to Bri, I would have liked to see how the initial meetings with Negan went with both the Kingdom and Hilltop. It would have helped serve the characters better. Maybe just never make Oceanside episodes and give us a more thorough explanation. More heads being bashed in to piss off the snowflakes of the world.)
Cece: I say they are definitely not the same person because, whereas Gregory just talks with the Saviors, Ezekiel would be the type to actually get out into the action himself. Difference between a ‘boss’ and a leader. (As it’s my job to give people a hard time, I counter that by saying that Ezekiel goes outside of town like an obedient server and greets his masters. Gregory actually pulls a show of power and actually waits for them to come to him. Yes, we know that it’s all just for show, but is there really a difference?
Kristi: Ezekiel is awesome and has a tiger. Enough said. (See Bob, I told you this is all that you had to write. Kristi gets it.)
Chris: A little bit. They both give in to the Saviors, but at least Gregory is upfront about it. However, Ezekiel stands with his people and doesn’t just look out for himself. (I think that this is the most reasonable response. I would go so far as to say, most arguments against Gregory are really lacking in substance because you can offer examples of Ezekiel doing something similar. The one big difference, once again, aside from the tiger, cool name, and witticisms, is how Ezekiel has been shown to care for his people and Gregory is fine if any of his people die, as long as he doesn’t. )
Kent: Of course there’s a double standard. One has a tiger and the other doesn’t, so everybody is like “Ohhhh Kent, look at the tiger, look at the tiger. Did you see that f’n tiger?” and I’m always like “Mom, stop swearing. Yes, I can see the fake tiger in all of it’s fake glory.” Ezekiel has the benefit of his rule being silly, which people gravitate towards in a series that is so serious. Ezekiel has a kingdom, a throne, and a Jerry. Gregory has a Jesus. While Bitches love Jesus, I think Jerry is actually more beloved, at this moment, especially since the cobbler incident. I will leave you with this thought, and although it doesn’t prove me right, I just want you to consider it. Switch Gregory and Ezekiel’s locations. Gregory runs The Kingdom, has a tiger and a Jerry. He has the same deal, meeting The Saviors outside of the walls, and he acts like a king. Ezekiel stays at Barrington house, doesn’t have the option to meet the Saviors outside of the gates because a member of the Hilltop pissed off the Saviors originally, and they now insist on coming in. That’s not unreasonable in any way, all it takes is one Spencer or Rosita. Who do you really side with? Yeah, you may find that your allegiance is more towards the tiger and Jerry. Just something to actually spend 30 seconds considering before absolutely dismissing me, which I know the vast majority of you are doing at this moment.
Bold prediction time! Do you think anybody is going to die next week? If so, who you got getting got?
Briana: Someone has to die. It’s the season finale! The obvious answer they want us to think is Sasha but I get the feeling her sob story to Eugene wasn’t real. I don’t think she actually was trying to kill herself so much as find a way to defend herself to escape. It feels like Tara’s time has been coming for a while but I don’t think we are that lucky haha. So I’m going to go with Eugene and Dwight.
Bob: Sasha seems like the best pick.
Bitty: Season Finale means death to some. Most likely Sasha and Ezekiel.
Teddy: Given the fact Sasha is on a new show, I say it’s her. Gregory will die but he isn’t a character, period. More like a flea.
Cece: I hope it’s Gregory. And I know for a fact Sasha should be going very soon too.
Kristi: Since this past week was mostly about Tara growing a pair and Sasha, I definitely think it will be one of those 2. I’m thinking Tara.
Chris: I think Sasha is definitely a goner! In a swerve I’m also going to say that…… Simon bites the dust (I hope not though….. At least not yet.)
Kent: I don’t want to comment too much on anybody’s prediction because it would be like me telling you that your lotto numbers are really smart and beautiful or that they are dumb and ugly. Wait, yeah I do want to say one thing. Bitty, really, Ezekiel? OK, I also wanna give props to Bri and Kristi for predicting Tara’s death. That’s an easy way to gain street cred. I’m seeing some that I think are way off, some that actually intrigue me, like Simon, and I hope that Chris is wrong. Oh, and somebody picked Ezekiel……really Bitty?
TWD tends to give lesser characters more screen time when they are close to death. Well, that leads us to Sasha, Rosita, Gabriel, Morgan, and Tara. Sasha is a goner, in my opinion, as soon as I heard that she got a role on Star Trek. I haven’t read any spoilers, so I don’t know, but I would bet my hairline on her death. I can tell you that I suspect a walker to kill somebody, and comic fans know where I am getting that theory from. Alas, the character who got the death that I am speculating on was Denise, so that’s not happening. I think that Rosita is safe, especially if Sasha dies, as it’s a way to remember Abe. Morgan is such a great talent, and he just got his swagger back, so I think that would be a huge mistake on the writer’s part. We don’t need somebody that tier (Rick, Carl, Maggie, Daryl, Carol, Morgan, Eugene, and Michonne) to die. That leaves me with Gabe or Tara, so normally I would say “Who’s been the bigger moral compass?” Tara doesn’t exist in the comic, and Gabriel lasts much longer in the comic, but his role is really small, and his death was really pathetic and almost an afterthought, so the comics don’t help. With the groups appearing to being on the verge of uniting, we don’t need eleventeen moral compasses. Tara’s death would include her apologizing to Rick for not telling him sooner about the guns and maybe make a Denise reference. We lost 2 dudes in the premiere, we then lost Olivia, Spencer, Ben, and Richard, along with the great Fat Joey. The show can afford another female loss, so I am going with my heart and my hopes and my dreams, and predicting Tara. I am also predicting that it will be so sappy that when I ask you if her death made you sad, and somebody says yes, I will furrow my non-existent eyebrows.
Will the season end on a high note or a low note?
Briana: I think it’s going to be a cliffhanger but I’d say high note if there is a note.
Bob: Can I just say they had better not do some nonsense like they did last season, making everyone wait for something. It will be a low note with a crescendoe.
Bitty: They better not end with a damn cliffhanger!!! I freakin will flip. A low note with the destruction of the Saviors, deaths of a few good guys but the last 2 min will be hopeful.
Teddy: It’s too soon for Negan’s downfall so it’s gonna be a low note. Hopefully it won’t be the cliffhanger like the fucking bat scene
Cece: I think it will end again on a very low note. It will be sad and/or depressing. Which, usually has us all wondering.
Kristi: It will end at the beginning of the so called War. Im sure we will have a solid cliffhanger until next season.
Chris: I think It will end on a high note as we get ready for war! Rick will start with the upper hand, but how will Negan respond? (John Doe has the upper hand. Hopefully you get the reference.)
Kent: Maaaan, reading these comments, it’s like the writers and producers may have soured people on cliffhangers. I find it surprising. It’s almost like they abused the Hell out of the cliffhanger privilege last season with Glenn’s magic act, Daryl not being affected by the gun shot fade away, and oh yeah, that finale where people felt incredibly insulted after all of the other Teasers (at least one of you will get that joke). To put it bluntly, they cannot afford to sour their audience any more as ratings have been an issue, so they need to cater to us and give us something in the finale. That also means that killing a beloved character wouldn’t be terribly wise. Sasha and Tara have fans, well Sasha does, and I have read a lot of positive comments on Tara’s boobs. The thing is, I dislike her so much that I have oddly never even checked her out in that capacity, which is really strange for me. The loathing is real. This will end on a sour note The midseason finale ended with the gang together and fans rejoiced. This whole build up has been Rick preparing for war. The theme has been Rise Up. Rick now has guns and things are looking really good for Rick at the moment. Obviously, that’s not going to last. Expect a very sad note to go out on. Also, don’t message me and spoil it for me. I have to wait for Wrestlemania to get over around 11, and then I can watch TWD. I most likely will have my phone off, but I would still despise anybody who out and out sent a spoiler. You may message me and ask me if I have seen it, and then wait for a response.
One final thing. If Judith gets it somehow, I’m just saying that I will be so happy. I know that makes me an awful person, but her existence in this show never made much sense to me, and I feel that they should have gotten rid of her sooner. I’m not anti babies for you sensitive folks. It was illogical that she didn’t get more people killed though.They could have had Mika die trying to save Judith, and then Lizzie could have still looked at the flowers. I hope that you enjoy the episode. Thank you so much for reading.
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.
Welcome to the only Walking Dead blog that has somebody who loves Gregory’s character, that would be me. I am your host, Kent, and I ask the questions around here. Then I have this awesome group of people who occasionally find merit in my questions and then they answer them. It’s neat. My sincerest thanks to Bob, Bitty, Teddy, Cece, Kristi, and Chris. They all took various amounts of time to share their opinion, so please take the time to read it.
In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce. Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else. If you would like to participate, let me know. The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits. Please note all messages in bold are written by me.
Who is the shadowy figure with the crossbow at the end of the episode?
Bob: Dwight! I can only hope!
Bitty: My call is Dwight.
Teddy: Well could be Daryl because he asked where Sasha was, but I honestly believe it’s Dwight
Cece: Apparently it’s Dwight.
Kristi: Dwight. I think he is going to help defeat Negan.
Chris: It has to be Dwight. Daryl couldn’t have made it there fast enough. I think we’re going to see Dwight turning on Negan soon.
Kent: OK, everybody has chosen Dwight. There’s no reason that it can’t be Daryl, despite people online saying that time is a factor. Well, we don’t know how long Sasha and Rosita were camped in the building. It was long enough to go from day into the evening or night. That is plenty of time considering that they only had an hour head start, maybe 2 at the most. It’s probably Dwight, but I am pleading my case for it to be Daryl. That adds a whole level of suspense of whether he will get caught. Dwight is obviously more interesting, but screw it.
Rosita’s idea to distract the walkers with the fire in the car: good idea or bad idea?
Bob: It is an okay idea. Fire and smoke also attract the living so it was a decision lacking wisdom. Rosita still only sees what is right in front of her, through the sunglasses of the past. (I am glad that I wasn’t the only person wondering about the living aspect. That was a huge red flag instantly.)
Bitty: It worked for what they needed. Fire always distracts them until they get bored! (What is a zombie’s attention span, and is it longer than a millennial’s?)
Teddy: It makes sense to distract zombies with fire…tale as old as time (Song as old as rhyme? If that wasn’t intentional, I still don’t apologize.)
Cece: Decent enough idea, I think. What else would they have done, really? (Not brought attention to themselves. You asked.)
Kristi: Decent idea. I think she could have found an easier way than taking the time to cut the fence but I guess they needed a time filler. (TWD with a time filler? The hell you say! That has NEVER happened!)
Kent: It was a bad idea, mmmkay. They made an assumption that the vehicle didn’t have any fuel in the tank, but if it had, think about the disaster potential. Yes, everything worked out, so people will point to that as being the right decision, but a lot of right decisions backfire and a lot of bad decisions work out. On top of that, that seemed like a big target for them knowing how many outposts there are. It was typical, lazy TWD writing that we have all grown to accept. Remember, Glenn magically rotated in mid air as did the ambulance with Daryl and Carol.
This show had a series of important conversations. Which one was the best for you?
Bob: Negan’s extended conversation with Carl was supreme. Full of variations but all controlled by Negan. I love how his part was played. Frankly, Negan was acting as Carl’s father more than Rick due to this episode. (But….but Rick had that one conversation with Carl in the barn, and uhmmmm, he trusted him to shoot walkers a few times. Sigh, you’re right.)
Bitty: All the conversations between Rick and Hershel. Hershel was one of the first to ever talk about how people aren’t in their right state of mind in the new world. Hershel was able to see the good and the evil. (Herschel not only did that, but to piggyback on your thought, we actually got to see Herschel get it. When the group took down the walkers in the barn, more importantly when Shane kept shooting the walker and it kept coming, we kind of saw Herschel’s whole realization process, to the point of driving him to drink and then find more humanity. Such a great character. Honestly, when I re-watch the show, I look forward to all of his scenes because of his transformation, in season 2 especially.)
Teddy: I believe the Stuff and Thangs is the most important convo outside the Corl meme. (I don’t have much to add to that, but I will include this picture of my birthday gift from Bitty’s husband, Brian. It’s relevant.)
Cece: This is very true. There have been many. The main ones that have stuck out to me lately is Father Gabriel to Spencer or Negan to Carl. (As a Gabriel fan, I find it troubling that he has become the moral compass of the show, and I fear for his safety. Plus he’s black, and TWD history has not been kind to black dudes.)
Kent: Man, my wording of these questions need to improve. I was actually asking about this particular episode, BUT it appears that I may have not been as specific as I intended. I will give my not for this week’s episode to the Simon and Gregory conversation. I was expecting some girl to go on about Daryl and Maggie with Maggie not being mad at Daryl, and then somebody else to go on about how the Sasha and Rosita thing felt nice because it brought back fond memories of Abraham. Instead…..well you read it. So I guess in the spirit that everybody else took it, I will go with Tyrese and Carol, in one of the best acted moments of the show when she reveals to Tyrese that she killed what’s her tits. My mistake was saying show and not saying episode. I need an angry nun ringing a bell behind me and yelling “Shame” as I walk nude to Mayfield.
Will Gregory have the inner-testicular fortitude to meet Negan at Sanctuary on his own accord?
Bob: I hope so because Gregory needs to see the iron. Or see someone get the iron. I am surprised Gregory didn’t narc yet… (Under what circumstances could you foresee Gregory getting the iron? You have me intrigued.)
Bitty: Oh Gregory. He’s like the little kid who wants to hang out with the bad kids on the playground but ends up being the butt of the jokes. He has no balls. He will possibly make an attempt but I hope Maggie kicks his ass before that happens. (Why Maggie and not Jesus? Aside from the obvious info that I have from the books, but to me, it just seems like Jesus should be the one. Just curious about your reasoning.)
Teddy: Gregory has the testicular fortitude of mud…he wont meet Negan. He will die like the worm he is
Cece: Hell no. He’s a pussy.
Kristi: I don’t think so. I’m kinda hoping he dies before he gets to do that. He is a very frustrating character. (Some day you may be very happy.)
Kent: I think that he is going to get so full of himself that he may decide to. Maybe he senses the winds of change, like The Scorpions have before him, and then he a Big City Night with Negan in Sanctuary and asks him to Rock all of the rebel rousers Like A Hurricane. Gregory will even refer to Hilltop as The Zoo. He will then again bow and pledge his allegiance to Negan by telling him that there’s No One Like You. Yeah, go listen to the Scorpions while reading the rest of this. I don’t even have a real point. I guess I say that he will because why else extend that invitation unless they are going to follow through on it?
Should Sasha have tried to take the shot, wait it out, or go in guns blazing? Yeah, none are great options, but choose one.
Bob: Easily wait for the shot. However, advertisers need their time slots as do other shows. I am a little disturbed that they go to do this sniper mission and give it one attempt. (Man, you people. Always bringing up points about filling up time and advertisers. But yeah, the give it one attempt thing cracked me up. Rosita gets this great gun, then finds the one girl that she really doesn’t like, to get this mission accomplished. They risk all sorts of things, and then see Negan for 15 seconds and are like, nahhhh.)
Bitty: Wait it out. I’m not sure why they thought Negan would only come outside one time. Silly girls. (I find that sexist and very offensive. Really, they have seen him how many times, but now they think that this like Groundhog Day or some such nonsense. Poor writing by TWD!)
Teddy: in any kind of assassination attempt it seems retarded to go in guns blazing. That is the fastest way to insure you do not kill your target. Shot from a distance is easily the best option because it allows for an escape. (Yeah, glad you mocked the guns blazing strategy so I didn’t have to. Of course, I am also a big believer in “If I ain’t dyin’, I ain’t tryin’, but I use that philosophy mainly in video games. Mainly.)
Cece: She should have waited until there was a definite, clear time to snipe his ass. (As I have learned in Zelda, sniping the ass rarely gets you the meat that you need to make a delicious meal. Just saying.)
Kristi: Wait it out. He was bound to come outside again. (How awesome would it be if he had a body double? Think about it!)
Kent: I am a firm believer in taking the shot, but only if you have a 50% chance or higher of succeeding. You see, I have been playing The Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild, and I keep getting impatient when I am trying to hunt the buffalo or whatever the hell they are, and I sometimes only get them in the chest or neck and it’s not an insta kill, and then they run off. Same principle here. You have to get a critical hit or else it’s not worth that bullet or arrow in my case. So the correct answer is to wait it out.
Do you agree with Gregory when he said that the new people need to start doing jobs and pulling their own weight? Also, why is Gregory so pissed at Jesus?
Bob: I agree with ends of Gregory’s statement, that everyone should do their fair share but I really feel he was trying to do 9 of two things. I mean, 1 of 2 things. 9th, he is trying to lamely attempt to regain control and distract from this rebellion or 2nd, he wants to keep an eye on people and hold them accountable so he can rat on them that way when they haven’t produced enough for the Saviors. (And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you guarantee yourself winning a question. 9 Deuce references will get you everywhere on this blog. I really did enjoy the 2nd point, as I hadn’t considered it, but it is so something Gregory would do. I like it!)
Bitty: Haven’t the new people already been doing jobs? Training the village how to fight! Jesus is a threat and Gregory knows this. (While your point is valid and I agree with it, can we just take a moment to think about how much better that training montage would have been with “You’re the Best” by Joe Esposito? I sadly knew his name without having to look it up. Seriously, give us more montage and less Sasha and Rosita tying knots. Also, more vegetables guy!)
Teddy: Gregory is only trying to act tough. His ass doesn’t lift a finger to work himself (can you tell I hate him?) I do believe in earning your keep in the zombie apocalypse but Gregory is acting like a dog peeing on stuff trying to make it his. Gregory is just taking his small dick issues out on Jesus because all the bitches love Jesus. (Bitches love Jesus. This really needs to go on a shirt. I keep saying this. Also, really digging the dog peeing on stuff analogy.)
Cece: I mean, of course people should all be working together. That’s how a community works, period. He seems more like he’s trying to save his own ass, than to be nice to people. He’s afraid of the main group because he knows they’re trying to fight. (If you could be doing what Gregory is doing, or toiling away scavenging, what would you choose? I would totally pull a Gregory. I have also been watching a ton of South Park lately, and watching Cartman puts things in perspective so often.)
Kristi: Yes, everyone needs to have some purpose in serving the community. I think Gregory is seeing his potential as a leader and it scares him. (I will ask you this particular question, what more does Ezekiel do that Gregory doesn’t do? You don’t really hear anybody complain about what Ezekiel does, he runs the community and has a tiger. I think fans have a double standard because Ezekiel is incredibly lovable and Gregory is…..well I love him and I am probably the only one. All I am saying is that having a full time leader, organizer, representative, isn’t the worst thing, at least from my perspective. )
Kent: Gregory is always right, even when he supposedly gets people’s names incorrect, he’s still right. Of course people need to not only pull their own weight, but if you want to get in good with Gregory and start to get some power, you do even more work and you suck up and then sleep with him, and then do what Andrea failed to do with the Governor. This would work for Maggie, Sasha, Enid, Rosita, Jesus, and possibly Daryl as he has shown no heterosexual tendencies as of yet, and Carol has all but drawn him a map to her promised land. I think he’s pissed at Jesus because he’s a bit jealous of his hair and eyes. Gregory is a handsome man, but I mean, he can’t compete with what Jesus brings to the table.
Why did Eugene reject Rosita’s offer to escape?
Bob: This also I feel can go two ways. One option is that Eugene wants the protection from Negan and is effectively, Negan. Alternatively, Eugene is very, very smart. He has a master plan and this little hurrah is messing with his methods. (I truly believe that this messed up what he’s working on.)
Bitty: I’m so torn with this. I would love to believe that Eugene is plotting and planning to take down Negan, however I really just don’t believe that’s the case. I think Eugene rejected the escape because he’s just not ready. In a sick way he feels safer inside Negan’s walls than out. You have to pick your poison. (I struggle to find a flaw with what you said in regards to him feeling safer inside the walls than out. Obviously, it’s significantly safer for damn near anybody. Hell, Daryl was technically safer in there, right? Plus, let’s not forget that in Eugene’s case, it’s amplified, in the same way that Daryl’s is because now Negan is actively trying to find Daryl with bad intentions. Eugene just isn’t a good candidate for hiding in the way that Daryl is. If Eugene had escaped, I think I would have been pissed at Eugene for being an idiot.)
Teddy: Eugene just earned their trust, so him jumping ship now would fuck all that work up. Eugene did the smart thing. (The trust thing is huge, especially early on.)
Cece: He’s afraid. He’s so confused and doesn’t want to get in the cross fire of things. He’s like a neutral dude who just wants things to go smoothly. (I truly don’t think that he’s confused, but he could be. A lot of fans give him a lot of credit that he may not even deserve as being this mastermind.)
Kristi: He has a plan. Not sure what but I feel like he may actually be trying to help. Also, if he did escape it would put everyone in danger. (Well, I just said that above, prior to reading this. Obviously, I agree.)
Kent: Eugene knows what he is doing. Right now, he is as close to untouchable as you can be with the Saviors, which isn’t saying much, but almost everybody would trade places with him at the moment, which says a lot. Then these strumpets come and mess up his swagger, and it’s bullcrap, alright. Eugene is living it up at the moment all things considering, and if Rick’s group takes over, Eugene can say that he was waiting to unveil his masterplan. If he never gets rescued, well he’s got an Atari to play. Eugene is pretty much winning the apocalypse right now.
Who do you respect more: Simon or Gregory? If you struggle with this, ask yourself who you least respect and then pretend it’s opposite day.
Bob: Simon hands down. Simon has authority and knows it and shows it. Simon doesn’t just talk about it, he is about it and does it. Gregory… reminds me of the used car salesman in “True Lies.”. He is about to urinate in his own pants. (Man, a True Lies reference! I was just talking about that film 2 nights ago. I really would love more film references in these blogs. Thank you. Come to find out, one of Craig’s favorite lines is “Ass like a 10 year old boy”. This whole video is great.)
Bitty: Simon. (& Simon)
Teddy: Simon. Gregory isn’t worth the sweat his father made while squirting him out. Also, Simon makes me laugh. (Simon had me laughing a couple of times this episode, and has in the past as well. He really nails the character.)
Cece: I respect Simon more. Yes, he’s made under Negan’s image to be a delivery boy, BUT, he’s an ass and at least he knows it. Gregory tries to be hard but he’s just a piece of shit coward. (After reading this, I wondered if Gregory is actually self aware. As you say, Simon is an ass, but he knows it. Is Gregory so full of himself that he believes his bullshit, or is it all a front? I could make an argument for both sides, which is basically the gist of these blogs anyway. It’s 60% me just making arguments for the sake of arguing.)
Kristi: I hate Gregory more. (I’m glad you went with the hate more angle and not the respect more angle. Good job.)
Kent: I respect both guys so much. While I may like Simon more, Gregory is running a community. He has kept his community fairly safe. Everybody loves Ezekiel, but hates Gregory, yet they have done similar things. “But…..but Ezekiel smiles ,Kent, and Jerry is really fuckin funny.” Uh huh, and? I have been wondering, when Gregory does get killed, will it be the most beloved kill in the whole series? I am going to say yes.
Why did Simon/Negan leave the Hilltop that mass quantity of aspirin?
Bob: I laughed out loud when I saw that! Maybe someone actually thought that was almost fair from the Saviors. It was really their way of saying, you had a doctor by our grace, and now we are taking him back. Here is a parting gift for your trouble. (So they basically lost on a game show, but walk away with a parting gift. I wish Marc Summers had been on this episode. I have to include this video because it has Marc Summers and Burt Reynolds, and Burt is so pissy as he just got divorced I believe.)
Bitty: Because they are assholes. (I’m not going to link to Dennis Leary’s “Asshole”……or am I?)
Teddy: Because they’re being sarcastic saying most people’s problems would be solved by some Alieve. (Maybe it’s the cure to the zombie epidemic? Like you overdose on it and BAM, cured. M Night Shamalayan would call that a tweest!)
Cece: As a joke because they are going to have massive headaches trying to figure out how to run things now that they’ve stolen their doctor. (As a person with chronic daily headaches, I approve of this message.)
Kent: Because they care. They want the hilltop to still thrive in the absence of Dr. Carson, and with that much aspirin, they should be able to barter that to other communities and get other things. People are really undervaluing that amazing crate. Yeah, I bet you didn’t consider the whole bartering thing, right? Like, how many boxes would get a melon from the Kingdom? You MUST think about these things, people!
Now that we are almost done with the season, who do you find yourself missing more: Abraham or Glenn?
Bob: Abraham but he would be dead by now anyway because of his strength and he is considered a threat. (So, say Negan had chosen Glenn first. Daryl obviously had his reaction. My question is, would Abe have reacted in similar fashion and gotten captured or his head bashed in? I don’t think Abe leaves that lineup alive because he was such a hothead. Something to consider for the readers.)
Bitty: Glenn. I miss his interactions with everyone- he always had that “hopeful” outlook and was a bad ass at the same time. He still carried the voice of reason. (I know that we often see things very differently, which is fine. It gives me things to poke fun at. From your perspective, did you find Glenn to be fairly weaker as the series went on, from a character perspective, say during seasons 5 and 6? I did, but I am curious about you.)
Teddy: Neither to be honest. I miss Bob. (Bob never got the recognition that he deserved. His death was terribly pointless too. Tara could have gotten eaten by the Hunters/Termites.)
Cece: I’m not too sure. I like Glenn as a person, but I think I miss Abraham more because he would have been a more badass asset to us now. (I want you to consider the same question that I posed to Bob, about whether Abe would have ever made it out of the lineup alive had he not been chosen initially. Message me.)
Kristi: Abraham. Glenn always kinda annoyed me. (I just want to say, Glenn totally lost me when he was too much of a pussy to kill Nicholas when Nicholas and him had that big fight, I think the same time that Alexandria was considering banishing Rick. Glenn was so highly praised, but him not killing Nicholas was a bitch move.)
Kent: Glenn got worse with every passing season. Seriously, rate how much you liked Glenn after each season and it is probably a gentle downward slide. Abraham was one of the 3 funniest characters on the show, along with Eugene and Merle. Abe is the obvious answer. Herschel is a definite 4th by the way for funny. Huh, no women on this funny list. Aren’t women supposed to be really smart and really funny? I’m confused.
Has Rosita grown on you this season or made you sour on her?
Bob: When is she going to die? (She could die in the season finale. If not, you will have to wait for maybe the season 9 finale if my calculations are accurate, or the season 10 midseason finale. If she makes it past this season, then it will be awhile for her comic demise, and I would like to see that play out more than a throwaway death now. Dare I say, you may actually enjoy her story after the war if it plays out the way it does in the books. Knowing how the show goes, they will make it way too dramatic and make all grown men openly groan, but one can hope.)
Bitty: Ok throughout this season and last I’ve been so over Rosita!! However as you all know I’m a sucker for the backstory of the character. FINALLY, we hear a little bit about Rosita’s past. This makes her tolerable now. She’s still got to get got soon though. (Man, you said get got, and that’s perfect. We agree wholeheartedly on this whole backstory thing. Backstory makes almost all TWD characters significantly more tolerable, except Tara.)
Teddy: I want an arrow to pierce her like Abraham used to xD (Wow, that was incredibly lewd. That’s so something I would say, so full approval.)
Cece: I have always hated her. Her sentiment toward Sasha at the end made me hate her like 1% less, but still. (So were you at a full 100% prior and dropped to 99%, because that is some cereal hate. Or were you at like a 73% and dropped to 72%? Inquiring minds want to know.)
Kristi: I still don’t care for her. Her little attitude is childish. She needs to go away already. (There are times where she has a childish outlook, I concur. I do like the fact that she is proactive. We need proactive characters to get the ball moving, or else the show would grow too stagnant. Of course there are times when you want to cut her face again.)
Kent: Grown like a raging clue after seeing Alicia Silverstone in Aerosmith’s “Cryin’” video. Yeah, some of you like that reference. The rest of you are damn millennials. Seriously, Rosita’s character has significantly improved this season. She’s had a lot to work with and has been killing it. Not always making good decisions, but everybody sure loves Rick, no matter how many bad decisions he makes. You people are sexist and I feel bad for you. Shame! Also, I referenced Aerosmith because this episode was titled “The Other Side” which is the name of a great song of theirs. Please, do not mention the Red Hot band that never shuts the hell up about California. Thank you for reading. Have a nice day.
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.
Welcome to the only Walking Dead blog that asks people about cobbler. This week, I am joined by Bitty, Bob, Briana, Cece, and Teddy as we go through 11 questions and help make the internet great again. This is one of my all time favorite episodes, and I have watched it 5 times. They really did a wonderful job on this one, in my opinion. People can say that the show is going downhill, and to those detractors, I present them with this episode and tell them to choke on it.
In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce. Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else. If you would like to participate, let me know. The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits. Please note all messages in bold are written by me. If you watched Talking Dead, this will make sense to you.
Whose death will have more impact moving forward, beyond this episode::Benjamin’s or Richard’s?
Bitty: Richards death was key to igniting Morgan’s will to kill and survive. Richard had a similar view that I believe Shane would’ve had if he was still alive. (Points for bringing up Shane! Yeah, those 2 along with Merle would have made a great team.)
Bob: Being that Benjamin’s death finally triggered Ezekiel to extract his mind from his brown eye, the answer to this is clearly Richard. Richard was a leader and tactically, the rebellion will suffer unknown loss due to Richard’s death. Also, Richard because Morgan is killing. (Yeah, the tactical point is a big one for the Kingdom, like a huge loss. Also, point for brown eye. I miss browneyedgurls.geocities.com)
Briana: That’s tough! Benjamin’s death will have more of an emotional impact because he has his little brother and Ezekiel was so close to him. Richard’s death will have an impact on the sense that it fueled the fire to get the Kingdom on track to join the others in the fight. (I am still wondering if Richard was never found out, would Ezekiel have gone to war just over Ben’s death.)
Cece: I’m not really sure either one of them was too important. But, Benjamin’s death led the Kingdom to understand what they may be dealing with now. (You’re not sure? You may need to re-watch the episode because you may have missed something. They pretty much Peter North’d it down our collective gullets.)
Teddy: Richard’s death was surprisingly inconsequential, Benjamin’s was the spark that lit Ezekial’s fire. Honestly was shocked by that since I thought Jerry’s death was the fuel. (Jerry’s death would have been huge, but he did get whacked. I am still undecided on how much Ben’s death impacted Ezekiel’s decision vs Richard’s, simply based on what was presented to us, and knowing how much Ezekiel likes to deliberate. I think this is something that will be touched on in a later episode, or so I hope.)
Kent: Richard’s is more important. Yes, Ezekiel is ready, but it took the death of both guys before we saw that in him. While Ben’s death effected Morgan, it was Richard’s plan that pushed Morgan to kill again. We have a pissed off Morgan back with us, and while I feel that Ezekiel would have decided to fight the Saviors after Ben’s death, but we may never know. What we do know is that Ben was still learning to fight and was still a teen, and Richard was a man who could fight.
Is Carol about to go back into season 5 and 6 mode where she will do whatever is needed, or will we see a hybrid version of Carol where she may not be as intense?
Bitty: There must be a middle ground for Carol. She should be a leader and not just a ninja killer. I hope to see Carol leading a smart and efficient way, not just “do it herself” mode where she gets overwhelmed and has to leave again. (I can absolutely foresee a way that they could make Carol a leader by season 9 or 10, if they so choose to play it that way.)
Bob: I think we will see a Carol that is frankly deadlier than before but she will be more reflective upon what she does. She will be more choosey about who she kills but woe to them she decides to kill. (I like the idea of her being more choosey. It would serve her character well.)
Briana: Carol seems to only have 2 speeds. Rabbit or Turtle. She’s been stuck in Turtle mode for a while and she will have get back into her crazy self if she plans on doing anything. She doesn’t half ass so I’m saying she will definitely be back to her intense self. (As a person who is permanently on Turtle mode, I will cheer for the rabbit this one time. Makes me want to watch some Looney Tunes as well.)
Cece: I think she will fight, but I don’t think she will completely be savage. (Ohhhhhhhh Yeaaaaah….Dig it. That was a Macho Man Randy Savage reference for the uninitiated. Sometimes my comments are for my enjoyment.)
Teddy: She softened really quick, but I don’t really believe she lost her kill everyone spirit lol. (Let’s hope that she hasn’t.)
Kent: She will definitely be closer to the former than the latter. I think she will be more open to planning a strategy instead of just doing what is needed, which could backfire. Carol’s instincts have been spot on. I really want to see her go Dr Dre 2001 Chronic album on the Saviors. I’m excited.
Regarding Richard’s death, was it more important for Morgan to kill him in front of the Kingdom due to Ben, or more important to do in front of the Saviors? Please only choose one.
Bitty: Ugh one?! Honestly this is a tough choice to make. If Morgan had killed in front of different Savior members, Dwight, Negan it would have been super important. I think that’s all I can add to this question. (Ugh, I know right? I think you undervalue Gavin’s importance in the Savior’s rankings. I could be wrong, but I think he is probably #4, and maybe #3. Dwight has a bigger role, but as far as rank, I don’t know who’s higher. Simon is clearly #2. Eugene is #1A.)
Bob: Morgan followed Richard’s death. Morgan even guarded against Richard lying since clearly, Richard will do a thing for a just cause in his own eyes. That being said, Morgan earned prima facie the Saviors’ trust of the Kingdom to be compliant. Morgan saw the emotional opportunity of the one Savior being dismissed and capitalized on it. The death was needed for the sake of restoring relations with the Saviors. (The guy dismissed is named Jared. Prima facie means based on the first impression; accepted as correct until proved otherwise. There, we just worked together to Kentucate people.)
Briana: Obviously, there’s reason for both but if I have to say one was more important than the other, I’ll go with the Saviors. I think it’s what Richard planned all along once his first plan didn’t pan out. He needed the Saviors to think the trust was still there. They need the element of surprise so making the Saviors think he killed him for stealing one of the melons, gives them that. It lets their guard down with them and keeps them off the radar of them potentially going rogue. (Speaking of Rogue, I’m still irritated with how she was portrayed in the X-Men films. Just saying. She was so much better in the 90’s animated series on FOX.)
Cece: More important for him to kill in front of Saviors. By him showing the fuck up to everyone and killing him on spot, it also shows that the Kingdom isn’t fucking around. (D0 you think that possibly Gavin took notice or gave a damn about it? I hadn’t considered him walking away taking note, but I can see that as a possibility.)
Teddy: I believe he did what Richard wanted. Richard wanted to die in front of both to spark the flame…he got his monkey paw wish granted lol. (Point for the monkey paw reference. I pretty much love every monkey paw TV or film reference that I have seen. It’s a simple story, and I don’t know why it’s not used more in modern day storytelling.)
Kent: I look at it this way, the relationship with the Saviors wasn’t going to really alter from the Saviors’ perspective, even if the group rebelled, they were confident that things would carry on eventually. I’m of the belief that Ezekiel needed to actually see somebody “rise up” and fight. He just lost his best soldier, and Morgan has instilled some confidence in Ezekiel to go to war. In that regard, isn’t that more important than just “fooling” the Saviors?
Carol has not really enjoyed the company of younger people since the prison. Do you think that she will ever find somebody to mentor or to care for, who isn’t an adult?
Bitty: No, Carol needs to focus on her relationships with people her age and older. The Mom figure is too much for her to handle. She is a bad ass strong woman who needs to take charge and lead men and women, not be a surrogate or school teacher.
Bob: No. I believe she is protecting them from becoming like her psychotic self.
Briana: The way I see it going down is she and Ezekiel end up getting together and sort of adopting Benjamin’s little brother. From the previews, it looks like that’s a road they may take. (Yup, I think there’s a good chance of that.)
Cece: It could be nice to see her branch out into her old habits again. But I can’t seem to think of anyone this could apply to.
Teddy: Not after she tried with little miss Satan (look into the pretty flowers…blam!) (I really miss Lizzie. She was a fun, psychotic character. We need more of them. People should be more psychotic folks in this world.)
Kent: I think that not only will Carol start to care for Ben’s brother, Henry, but also I have this feeling that Carol has to impart some wisdom to Carl and Little Ass Kicker. I can towards the end of the show’s run, Carol with Judith, and it would absolutely make sense.
Is Lennie James (Morgan) the best actor on the show? If not, who is?
Bitty: Although his skills are flawless, I still feel the pain in Carols eyes, she doesn’t have to speak and she is in pain. (I was going to say Tara to see your reaction!!) (You would have been able to feel the hate in my eyes, because you know, I’m also a great actor. I think between Morgan and Carol, they can just look at each other and carry a scene.)
Bob: He ranks high, but no. I hate to do this, but I believe Andrew Lincoln is the best actor. We have seen him with his sanity and without it. We have seen him happy and crushed. We have seen him arrogance and fearful. We have seen him rash and calculating. He has covered a slew of different emotions and states of mind and is convincing and captivating at the same time. He has had his boring moments, but my better half also noted his near perfect acting when they were initially captured by Negan. (I have 2 issues with putting Andy higher on my list. First, he is the character we see way more than anybody else, meaning that he has had more opportunity to showcase all of that, which may not be fair, but I tend to count that against the leads, except in Breaking Bad because Bryan Cranston was so good. Secondly, when Lori died, Rick rolling around on the ground, he cries about as badly as Edward Norton does. I have to acknowledge that. He is really good though.)
Briana: Oh he’s absolutely one of the best! I don’t think I could pick just one to be the very best though! I’ve always been extremely impressed by Rick and Maggie being English! I seriously had no clue either of them were anything less than Southern until I saw them in other things (and yes I had totally seen him in Love Actually long before Walking Dead but just didn’t connect the dots until I saw him interview for some other show he did!) (I also saw Love Actually, last month thanks to Cece. He was good in that. The being English thing is a valid point, well him and Lauren. Did you see her in The Boy? If not, I can’t say that I recommend it, but if somebody did like it, I recommend checking out Housebound. Similar story, but better done.)
Cece: He is most definitely one of the best actors in the show, for sure. I can’t think of anyone I really like who acts better than he does in their roles specific to only this show. When it comes to careers, Jeffrey Dean Morgan, for sure. (When it comes to careers Michael Rooker, Norman Reedus, and Jeffrey DeMunn are all in the conversation. DeMunn probably has the best career when considering the show in totality with Shawshank Redemption, Green Mile, and The Mist. That’s tough to beat. Rooker has been in a lot of stuff, just not as high profile, but more quantity. I can go all day on this.)
Teddy: I believe he shows range for sure, and he tows that sanity line better than Andrew Lincoln does as Rick. (Bingo! I think he does that better than Andy, and that’s the biggest reason that I favor Lennie over Andy. Morgan’s sanity feels more volatile and real to me. RIck was just chasing a ghost. Morgan feels it.)
Kent: This is a tough one. He’s in the top tier with Michael Rooker (Merle), Scott Wilson (Herschel), Melissa McBride (Carol), and Andy Lincoln (Rick). I favor Lennie over Melissa, but they are 1 and 1A. Morgan has had less screen time, but he does crazy in such a good way. Plus Lennie kicked ass in Snatch.
Do you miss when The Walking Dead would spend time showing a character’s backstory, pre-zombie apocalypse or whatever they did to get to this current point in time?
Bitty: I love knowing these things about a character!! However there is no time anymore when so many stories are in motion. When Eugene explained his back story in less than 60 secs a couple weeks ago it was perfect. Exactly what I wanted to know how him without an entire episode. When we first had the Morgan episode years ago, getting captured and taught and all I was frustrated and bored with it. But now I understand Morgan’s development because of that. So I guess what I’m saying is that there aren’t any other characters right now that i need a back story for. Except Daryl. What did he do?? (He was a private investigator.)
Bob: Yes BUT I don’t want whole episodes of that. It can be sooooo boring. Glimpses are good, and leaving some mystery is a good thing.
Briana: I really enjoy when they do that but I definitely think limitation is important! This show can be one of the worst about prolonging stories that aren’t quite as important as they make them out to be. Something that takes an entire episode can sometimes be explained in way less time! (There are times when the show tries to force a story and it just doesn’t work. Most shows are probably guilty of that, but in a show with such a huge cast, it’s more prominent here.)
Cece: Absolutely. I LIVE for character development! (D0 you die when a character is introduced but never talked about ever again? I’m looking at your Morales and you Vatos and the remaining Wolves.)
Teddy: Depends, I believe outside Jesus and Ezekiel they’ve pretty much covered all the important people left.
Kent: I do because they have usually been really well done. The exception was how poorly Abe’s backstory was. I still love when Orange is the New Black does this, and is actually the best thing the show has going for it nowadays, unless you like preachy bullshit. Here are people whose backstory I would love to see: Rosita, Negan, Gavin, Simon, Jesus, Gregory, Jerry, and of course Kent. I know that Morgan’s 90 minute episode wasn’t universally loved, for some inane reason, but without that episode, Morgan’s character would be very lackluster now. I just want the pre-credits backstory, not full episodes, except for Negan. I would have loved to know more about Fat Joey too. RIP
“To injure an opponent is to injure oneself” was a quote that Ben used during this episode. This episode, the meaning is obvious. Give me another example(s) of when that applied to the show.
Bitty: Deep. Very Deep. When the Governor beheaded Hershel. He injured a crucial member of the apocalyptic society and in turn was killed himself because of that act. (You took my initial thought when I wrote the question.)
Bob: When Shane was killed by Rick. By the way, Shane was also a great actor on this show. Nothing like killing your adopted daughter’s father. When the Governor killed Herschel. When Negan killed Spencer and (mostly) Olivia. (I read this, and I had this idea. In 20 years, I would totally be in favor of the show being remade, but different characters survive. So early on, we may see a lot of the same things play out, but suppose Shane and Dale don’t die so early and maybe Glenn gets it and that means that Maggie or Beth ends up with T Dog. Sort of like the TV show, Sliders. The same premise, but just played out differently. Maybe they make it all the way to the prison, and maybe they work together with Governor, or maybe they attack the Governor and kill him like they initially wanted to. Think about the possibilities.)
Briana: I’ll go with Carol having to kill the red head from the Saviors. Killing her really had a huge impact on her making her completely emotionally unstable. (Which is kinda weird when you think about it. THAT was her breaking point. Not being F’d over by Rick, not having to put down Lizzie, not having to kill that lady in Terminus, who had a sad story herself. It was the Red Woman, but I don’t think her name was Melisandre.)
Cece: Definitely pertains to when Rosita shot Lucille and then we lost Spencer. (Good one. Didn’t even cross my mind. To add to that, that same scenario, Negan kept pushing the buttons and Lucille got hurt, so Negan took away Eugene, if you look at it from the Saviors POV.)
Teddy: Daryl hit Negan so Glenn got the bat pretty easy choice. Also, Rick’s group took out the Savior’s outpost so Negan took out Abraham. (Really, the whole round up, let’s play eeney meeney miney moe thing, that is once again, another example of this, only from the Savior’s POV. Yes, they lost that outpost and the Dick Brigade, but then they took out Abe and Glenn.)
Kent: No shit, everybody said something different. I was going to go with Herschel and Governor, but Bitty tackled that one, so I will suggest the Merle and Michonne thing. Not only was Rick considering giving Michonne to The Governor, but Merle went to carry it out and realized that would injure the group too much, and then he got injured/killed. That whole thing really works here. Dale’s death got the group moved into Herschel’s place and sparked a fire. Rick’s injury also strengthened Carl after the Prison went to shit. Plenty of examples. Great job guys and gals.
Another theme throughout this episode, and in the series for that matter took place when Nabila was talking to Ezekiel about how the garden was overrun with weevils, and that they would have to cut it and burn it, but if they want, it can all grow back. Give me another example of this taking place in the series.
Bitty: When the Walkers invaded Alexandria and were running rampant. The townspeople sacrificed part of their water source by filling it with gasoline and igniting it. Drawing the walkers to the fire as they burned in their clean water source. (In hindsight, wasn’t that a terrible decision? With 20-30 townpeople all fighting, was it necessary when if each person killed 3 walkers, that would have thinned it out pretty quick? You had Rick and Michonne and Kent all out there fighting. I’m just asking.)
Bob: This actually goes back to the Old Testament of the Bible. Destroy your enemy completely, utterly and competently. Then prosper. In the series, this has continually happened with every surbibor in the show. Every person has needed to break themselves down or be broken down, choose to embrace that change, thus destroying a former version of themselves and then accept who they have become and grow into that person. (You had to know that this was coming based off of your Surbibor comment. Nobody reading this is in on the joke, but suffice it to say, 10+ years ago, we used to jam out to this song while playing many a video game, notably Deathrow. Seriously, they do not say Survivor.)
Briana: These are tough questions today!! Lol! I’m shooting in the dark here but look at the flowers was a pretty big theme. (I like to ask the hard questions from time to time. It helps us from becoming too complacent with the easy questions. Plus, now you have Destiny’s Child above you, so there’s that.
Cece: Not too sure I can think of another example offhand, but maybe more like getting rid of the people who don’t want to work to make things better and starting fresh. (Sure, consider the prisoners, and how Axel and Oscar had to really prove their worth, but only after losing what they knew and where they were safe.)
Teddy: Rick and Hershel’s farming outings which Hershel told Rick to do it with CORL(Carl) (This was a really good one, and obvious, and I totally didn’t think of it. Good call!)
Kent: In a way, that’s what Rick was talking about with the Governor prior to Herschel’s beheading. Burn the hate, and build something amazing.
Will Morgan ever find peace before death?
Bitty: I think he found peace IN death when he killed Richard.
Bob: That is exactly when he will find peace, in those last moments right before death or a near death experience. He is closer now that he will kill again.
Briana: I think peace comes and goes with Morgan. He was at peace for a while. But will he find it again before he dies depends on how soon he dies! I could see him going full fledged psycho during this fight and getting himself killed. If he can make it past this particular situation then yes I think he’ll find peace again, at least for a while. (I like your answer better than mine. I have Night of the Living Dead references though to help make up for it.)
Cece: I think so. He’s a very peaceful person. I hope someday his mind is at ease.
Teddy: I believe he either will find peace in death (sacrificing himself) or he will save someone and let the pain go
Kent: There’s no wrong answers here, except for maybe mine. I like that people all had a different take on it, which tells me that Morgan is a complex and well done character. In a weird way, I think killing Richard offered that peace. It cleared his mind a bit, while also sending him spiraling. I know that doesn’t make sense. I think he’s at peace knowing that he avenged Benjamin, and has enough perspective to understand the world for what it is. More importantly, I want to offer up this nugget. Most of you know that Morgan’s son, Duane Jones, was named after the lead character in Night of the Living Dead. Benjamin kinda became somewhat of a son figure briefly for Morgan. Duane Jones’ character’s name in Night of the Living Dead was Ben. Yeah, I’m sure that was intentional. I can’t be the only person to have made that correlation.
Why did Ezekiel want Jerry to leave the cobbler?
Bitty: Cobbler equals Carol. Ezekiel wants to honor Carol’s wishes and leave her out of everything. If the cobbler isn’t there Ezekiel doesn’t have to think of Carol. (I hadn’t considered a Carol correlation, but you made it work. I like it.)
Bob: He didn’t want the Saviors possibly seeing it and I also think Ezekiel is somewhat frustrated at how jovial Jerry is. (Once again, I didn’t remotely consider that, but yeah, I think Ezekiel wishes Jerry would take things at least 47% more seriously for these missions)
Briana: Partially professionalism, partially so he wouldn’t risk starting something with the Saviors. They may have decided they wanted it or decided that if they have enough food to eat on a run, they have enough to be giving bigger deliveries. (This is probably the right answer. It makes a lot of sense knowing what little we do of Ezekiel.)
Cece: Who knows? He didn’t want him sharing.
Teddy: Bruh those Saviors are greedy af lol. That cobbler is theirs lol and they won’t share….unless it’s with Carol. (No sense in wasting food or sharing it in the ZA. Look at how upset Morgan was about Michonne taking his peanut butter bar, or whatever the hell it was.)
Kent: Ahhh, this is why I enjoy this blog. Ezekiel probably just didn’t want everybody else to smell it and get hungry before this big mission. There are more serious obvious answers, but eh, fudge that.
Gavin (the leader of the Saviors group that visits Ezekiel) provided us with a little insight into his character. Do you think that he is closer to Simon, as in an uncaring hard ass, or to Dwight, who clearly has a lot going on?
Bitty: Based on pure hope- Dwight. Easier to break and destroy. (I am curious as to how strong willed Simon really is, just based off of Bob’s response.)
Bob: Simon, since I have to pick one of them. Gavin has you fooled if you think he truly cares. That’s all for pomp and circumstance. Just because we have insight into the manipulation of Richard and Morgan with the Kingdom setting up for resisting the Saviors does not mean the Saviors are doing something similar of which we have no insight into. Lastly, we need to trust basically, that Negan has put people in power whom have everything to lose and he controls. (Thank you for mentioning Pomp and Circumstance because that allows me to make my second Macho Man Randy Savage reference! That was the name of his theme song. Also, that last line you wrote, very spot on.)
Briana: I lean toward Dwight. I don’t know for sure if he does what he does out of fear or genuine care for making the situation work out without casualties. But it seems he genuinely doesn’t want people to die when he’s out on these runs and that says something compared to how other leaders act. (Dwight strikes me as a guy who doesn’t want to kill, but if he ends up in a better place due to that death, then he supports it, which is the way a large portion of us really would end up like, given similar circumstances, no matter how think of ourselves, people do desperate things in desperate time. I plan on lying a lot and using big words and basically pulling a Eugene, minus the hair game of course.)
Cece: Definitely a Dwight. You could even see how he was somewhat upset that Benjamin had died. (That is what the show wants us to believe. As a cynic, I am hoping for more layers to Gavin, sooner than later, as I don’t think he’s going to survive much longer.)
Teddy: Benjamin’s death shook him for sure. I feel like he doesnt like to do his job but he knows he has to despite liking talking to Ezekial. (I can see him liking doing business with Ezekiel. That makes a lot of sense realistically. Way better than dealing with Gregory.)
Kent: I think he is closer to Simon. If anything, he may have witnessed his own son get killed and maybe it hit him hard briefly, or it could have all been an act. He is still about doing business and pleasing his boss. Jared on the other hand is just a douche bag that has been granted the slightest bit of power and takes it way too far. He has to be the most hated character on the show behind Tara, right? He whacked Jerry!
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.
Welcome to the only Walking Dead blog that tasks people with answering 11 questions about an episode, no matter how bad or insulting it is to viewer’s intelligence. Oh hey, Episode 12 was really great, am I right? This episode can go back to Oceanside. On the plus side, it appears that Rosita and Sasha are about to give us a memorably moment.
In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce. Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else. If you would like to participate, let me know. The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits. Enjoy this meme, provided to me via Cece. Please note all messages in bold are written by me.
Throughout the episode, Michonne seemed to be more in a rush than Rick. Why do you think that is?
Bitty: Rick was in the moment. At first I thought he was scared to go back to reality, scared of more deaths, more fights, scared of Negan. But as the episode went on he was just in the moment. He understands the moment finally. He can lose people and it’s ok but this is life now. Michonne will continue to keep Rick focused and be his mental drive. (I like that you describe it as living in the moment, because that’s the gist of it. No doubt.)
Bob: Michonne doesn’t have testicles. Rick has 2. (Yeah, nobody had a chance of topping this response.)
Briana: Rick first of all was just enjoying feeling alive out in the thick of it all. The outside feels more like home for him than behind the walls of Alexandria where he’s a prisoner to Negan. Also, I think it had to do with Michonne not being very optimistic that they would find something. Easier to just go back home than continue looking for something she feels is not out there. (I hadn’t considered that last bit regarding Michonne, but that sounds about right.)
Kristi: I think she was worried about the town. Rick seemed to want to spend time away and act like life was somewhat normal. (Yeah, he needed that breather.)
Kent: Rick really needs to take some time to digest everything. Rick has always been pushing and pushing when everybody else needed to take a personal day, basically. The only exception is when he lost his shit after Lori’s death. Aside from that, he’s been the guy to keep this operation constantly pushing forward. He’s in a state of mind where he just wants to enjoy a day or 2 with this chick and remember everybody that he has lost since this began, but especially Glenn. Michonne hasn’t had the attachment to these people that Rick has by virtue of being the leader. In a way, the whole episode’s theme was reflection if you want to get really deep and thoughtful. Rosita reflected on her decisions and has her discussion with Gabe about it, Tara reflects with Judith, and then the Glenn stuff hits you over the head repeatedly. The roof falling in happen in season 4, episode 1. Being surrounded by walkers in a vehicle with dead military guys goes back to the first episode. The stupid fake out of a character getting eaten by a mob of walkers goes back to the stupid thing that I am beyond sick of in season 6 episode 3. The fact that this episode takes place at a carnival/fair set up is also curious for those familiar with the books because if you recall, it was a fair when Alpha first launches her revenge. Also, TWD likes to incorporate deer more often than you may have considered. Consider Carl got shot in S2 Ep1 when looking at the deer. This was all like a weird flashback.
Rick and company have hit the jackpot a few times when scavenging for supplies. This makes me wonder, do the Saviors do any scavenging, or do they strictly “supervise” other groups into scavenging?
Bitty: Great question!!! I’ve wondered this many times! What do the saviors do? They obviously grow plants and garden and harvest but then they just bully everyone to do the hard stuff for them. Saviors have it all together at their camp but when they are out on their own in small groups I bet they are controllable. (They shouldn’t be controllable. We only have a small sample to really know much, but when we first met the Saviors, with Daryl, Sasha, and Abe getting stopped in the road, it did take an RPG to defeat them. They were all well armed. Shouldn’t they be a better fight, or do you think they may feel a bit of comfort and complacency?)
Bob: They definitely supervise. I wouldn’t waste the effort… It’s dangerous to do though because at any point, the supply chain could set up and the Saviors would be high and dry. (That brings up something that I have often wondered. The Saviors are a huge group. Why doesn’t Negan have 10 people man each down to be more hands on with the supervision? Negan is ruthless, aggressive, smart, but he is not very tactical, and I think we keep seeing flaws in his system.)
Briana: I would think maybe in the beginning they scavenged a bit but now, no. If they did, they would have found the stuff our guys are finding. They just go around barking orders and doing lot of nothing. Just like CEOs. They reap the most benefit but do the least amount of work. Lol.
Kristi: I think they scavenge but are too afraid to be seen by Negan’s crew so the keep a down low.
Kent: This part baffles me. The writers can’t win here. If they were to give me all the info that I request, then they have too much stuff to worry about. Vague is better, but damn, I want a map. We know that there are numerous outposts for the Saviors. We know that they have communities working under them, some which we may not even know of. Still, it seems sloppy that there isn’t better coordination to figure out what has and hasn’t been looked at, especially by locals who are more familiar with the area. Really, nobody knew about this carnival place? I assume the Saviors scavenge and do a bad job at it. Also, let’s never forget the food truck that Rick and Daryl lost due to Jesus.
Is Rosita’s anger towards Father Gabriel appropriate or misguided? Just pick one. Also, what do you think Father Gabriel’s message to Rosita meant? Was it more along the lines of stay within the system, or to go out and do what you need to, or something else?
Bitty: Misguided. Rosita is dumb and hot headed and is grieving. She doesn’t know how to handle her emotions. I think she has Daddy issues. Father Gabriel’s message to Rosita was just spinning it back on her. Her actions, her results. (Father Gabriel and Rosita in a duo scene, just not my cup of tea). (It was my favorite scene. This is why I have you around, very different perspective. Rosita was just acting every other female…..am I right guys? Don’t send me hate mail.)
Bob: Rosita is wicked emotional so all her decisions are misguided even if they end up being the right ones. I think FG was trying to have her stay in the system by giving her options but it didn’t turn out the way FG would have e preferred. (That makes sense. Gabe is at least thinking rational, but it’s not like he has all of the answers, but he is providing the best options that he can come up with.)
Briana: Definitely misguided. Her killing Negan and then dying herself wouldn’t have solved anything. Personally, if she’d have killed him in that moment, I think they would have just taken out everyone within the walls at the time. I don’t think there would have been anything left of Alexandria so it would have been counter productive for everyone. Gabriel being who he is these days, he’s probably telling her to do her own thing. He trusts her judgement for the most part even if he disagreed with that particular plan. (Yeah, within the walls of Alexandria, that would have been like the Wolves’ attack, only with well armed individuals.)
Kristi: Misguided. I think he is saying to balls up and do your damn job. That the group needs her. Her going out to do her own thing is on her. Hoping she will die doing because frankly, she annoys me. (I like that rational of Gabriel telling her to do her job, more of a leadership role.)
Kent: I think her anger is appropriate. She is so hellbent on doing something that anybody that is in her way is a detriment to her, from her perspective. She sees the aftermath and knows that she could have potentially ended it, but instead, let this guy get in her head. We don’t know what would have happened had Lucille not stopped the bullet. She knows that things would be better though. I feel that Gabe’s message was, you basically came to me, I told you what you needed to hear to keep you alive. Make your own decisions, but my advice will keep you alive. My favorite line of the episode was: “But you were… and you did.”
Was now the right time for Tara to tell Rick about Oceanside given the circumstances? Also, how do you foresee that situation going down?
Bitty: I think it’s the right time. I’m beginning to understand Tara’s character more. She has always jumped from group to group and now she is choosing a “forever group” by telling Rick about Oceanside. How is that situation going to go down? I have different ideas, maybe all the men from Oceanside are part of the Saviors now, or maybe Rick will talk with the Scavengers and make them go get the guns at Oceanside. Either way I think Tara’s time will come when Oceanside is breeched. (That last sentence gave me a clue. I so hope she gets got. I can see something similar to the Dawn and Beth scenario where Rick makes a peaceful deal, and the guns are trading hands for some food maybe, and one of the outraged women shoot Tara to finish the job. I really hope so.)
Bob: Oceanside folks could end up dead. They tried killing Tara so that is their attitude. I suppose morally Tara had to tell Rick because it was killing her inside. (I can see that. I can also seeing it get really built up with tension and nothing comes of it.)
Briana: Yes. My biggest concern was that she might tell Rosita first and then she would have ruined everything but telling Rick is definitely the right thing to do. If they can make the right plan, it could work out even though there are big risks. I think they’ll send Tara in first since she knows them a little. Let her explain the situation and what’s going on and then send in the rest. That’s the only way I see it working out. (Oh man, I would have loved it if Rosita would have found out first. That would have led to an exciting episode. I have gone back and forth on how they even start a conversation and if Tara is really the right person to send in first. Hopefully they Ned Stark her.)
Kent: No, she should have told Rick immediately and gotten those bitches massacred back when they an advantage of sorts. Now is fine, but they have an even bigger disadvantage now. Seriously, who is Rick going to bring for this? Rosita and Sasha are going off on their journey. Carol, Morgan, and Daryl are most likely busy. So we will have Tara, Rick, Michonne, Gabriel, and Carl. That’s a perfectly fine squad, but they could really use Carol for this one. She would deliver. I don’t know how this will go down. I feel that they wouldn’t attack if Judith was present, but that wouldn’t be Rick’s way. Probably just a lot of Tara trying to be funny bullshit. I don’t care to know, but I feel that we may get our answer in 2-3 weeks.
What was the most ridiculous thing that happened this episode?
Bitty: Honestly the finding of the gun infested carnival. Rick and Michonne couldn’t have traveled too far from Alexandria and the Saviors, how was this place not found already? Ridonkculous. Also something comical from Talking Dead. Andrew Lincoln describes Michonne killing 8 walkers as “Rickie Dickie” is trying to pull one walker out of a car.
Bob: The zombie shooting the rifle was really dumb.
Briana: Rosita and Sasha thinking they will be able to take Negan out on their own. Look I get it, these girls are bad ass! Like extreme chicks I could never measure up to but holy Christ man! You’ve got a whole crew of bad assery behind you, follow the mother effing plan! Those two are going to die this season and I have no doubts about it at all! At least one of them but most likely both. OH! Then there was the fact that the deer was so fake it was insane! Haha! There was no way to make that thing not look photoshopped in? Lol! (That was one of the worst special effects, if not the worst, that they have done on the show. It reminded me of time during the Bastard Bowl on Game of Thrones and there were so many shot that were too fake, and although the episode was good, it took me out of the moment at times.)
Kent: Oh man, where to begin? You have the sword toss, the walker who’s gun starts going off, the many callbacks to previous episodes, the deer not being startled by all the noise and commotion, the deer itself in all of it’s fakery, but let’s go with Rick using the hooked pole, which I am sure is not incredibly strong, as his weapon of choice.
Was Rick’s car idea, to block off the walkers a good one, without the benefit of hindsight?
Bitty: Again, in the moment. It’s their life and they make the choices, whether good or bad. It was a good plan.
Bob: Oh my gosh, no. That’s a case of over planning and arrogance. (I’m glad that you bring up the arrogance thing. That’s been a thing in this show, and every time that Rick gets too arrogant, something brings him back down to Earth. Something bad is coming. This half season, him and Michonne have taken on like 200 walkers and they just smile and giggle about it. I think somebody has to pay for what Sasha and Rosita are about to do, and it could very well be a crippling blow. Tara and Gabriel seem like 2 characters than can be killed and not affect any future storylines from the comic.)
Briana: Yeah if it had worked, it was a decent plan! If he hadn’t gotten in the car when Michonne started pushing, they probably could have pulled it off. But you can’t help stop a car with out feet on the ground. And then of course the machine gun going off didn’t help matters but yes without hindsight I think it was a decent plan. (They really could have used Fred Flintstone for this mission.)
Kristi: Not a great idea but it worked out so..
Kent: It was a good idea. You can’t plan on the brakes not working. Here’s what got me though. Rick reaches in without checking to see if the walker was alive. Like, season 1 Rick may have been that naive. Season 7 Rick knows better, so what gives? Really dumb writing there. Don’t insult our intelligence.
Why were those walkers’ wrists tied up? I don’t think that there is ever going to be an answer, but have fun with this.
Bitty: I saw that! I paused it to double check that I was seeing it right. I agree that we probably won’t get any answers about this episode. I think the demise of the Carnival was early in the change before people knew how to handle walkers. I think the Military tied up “sick” people and either let them alone while they were deciding what to do with them or had an execution that went wrong. (I like the execution gone wrong theory. It would have been cool to have shown a flashabck for 3 minutes in the beginning about the carnival. I miss opening backstories. That is something that this show is seriously lacking at the moment.)
Bob: I hardly remember this and being such a ridiculous episode….. (I’m just glad that other people saw this episode as absurd as I did. I got wondering, when I was writing these questions up, was it just me that saw the episode in that light.)
Briana: Man! That had me wondering the whole time! What on earth was up with that? My theory is whatever this place was in the beginning, they turned on each other. Maybe the military guys decided they didn’t like having to take care of the non military people? That’s my best guess. (Yeah, I could see them not wanting to share. Panic does lead to irrational behavior….hello 2016.)
Kristi: Their wrists were tied up? I need to start watching this twice. 🙂 (it does help me with my terrible memory to watch twice. This wouldn’t be the best episode to start that policy with. Next week’s should be fine though.)
Kent: I know that there isn’t much to be taken from this, but I will think back to season 1 of Fear The Walking Dead. The military had a quarantine, and kept people in cages. It doesn’t take much imagination to see how this went. Maybe they rounded up the healthy people who started an uprise, so the military took some down and tied up the rest. Or maybe it was something straight out of Stephen King’s The Stand, and maybe this was some kind of entertainment for the military guys. That would also be very cool, like have human carnival games.
Who’s the better negotiator: Rick or Janis?
Bitty: Janis is emotionless. So far so good. Rick is emotional which will get you killed in the apocalypse. This brings me back to “we can live without each other” maybe Rick is learning this for real this time, making him a better negotiator. (Yeah, reading this made me re-watch Rick pleading with The Governor prior to Herschel’s execution. Rick handled that situation poorly. Couldn’t they have just left the prison and tried to rebuild Woodbury?)
Bob: Rick. His presence of a personality and charisma, regardless of the emotionless Jar Jar Binks cult, and his forthrightness will typically win in the end. You can read the “I will kill you” look. (Insulting Jar Jar Binks will always result in applause on my end.)
Briana: They seem very evenly matched but the fact that Rick was able to get double the guns he originally asked for makes me lean toward him. On the other hand, Janis has the opportunity to know he is good for his word and trust that he will be able to return with more. (I still think that she intentionally low balled him to see what kind of person that she was dealing with. If he had just accepted the 10 guns, I don’t think they would have ever really helped Rick’s group.)
Kristi: Rick. I kinda want to punch Janis. (Have you ever seen any of Janis (Polly McIntosh’s movies? I think you would dig of her films. Totally unrelated, but screw it.)
Kent: Let’s go with Janis. She lowballed the hell out of Rick to see who exactly she was dealing with. She was negotiating from a perspective of power while Rick while coming from a position of need. Both got what they wanted. I think Janis is happy to know that these people can end up being her allies. I also liked that she wanted her cat back. It was a fun touch that I am sure somebody else has touched upon.
What will be the outcome of Rosita and Sasha’s mission? If anybody dies, who?
Bitty: Death. I’m hoping we lose Rosita and that Sasha survives. However Rosita won’t die until we see a classic Eugene and Rosita scene. (If they don’t have a Rosita and Eugene scene, this show would have F’d up majorly. It’s very important in my opinion.)
Bob: Sasha dies, Rosita joins the harem. That means Negan lives. (If she joined the harem, I am curious how quickly Arat would start hazing her.)
Briana: Both! I kind of touched on this on the wrong question! Lol! But I think they will get caught one way or the other and they’re going to die. If I had to pick one, it’s Rosita.
Kristi: Rosita will hopefully die. Sasha is pretty badass and I hope she survives.
Kent: Now my answer is far from definite, and I am trying to word this in a way that is without comic spoilers, despite there being no Sasha in the books, and Rosita never goes down this path, there is a similar story that has an awesome ending. We know that Sonequa Martin-Green is going to have a big role in the upcoming Star Trek TV series. When somebody has taken on a role that big, that is usually indicative that they are on borrowed time. Also, she has not been on Talking Dead in awhile, and I think they are saving her and Christan Serratos for that episode. I feel that Rosita’s character has become far too interesting to kill her. On top of that, I like things about her character in the book that leads to Eugene becoming a better character. I think Rosita is safe, and will get transported back to Alexandria, along with a lovely surprise, and the death of Tara or Gabriel. A moral compass or 2 are going to get it this season. I think Rosita needs her redemption storyline before her dies. I also can see Judith in potential danger, but the longer she lasts, the harder it is to kill her. They messed up by not having one of The Governor’s assaults kill her to make Governor more despised.
Did I just watch a romantic comedy set in the zombie apocalypse? More importantly, is a romantic relationship in the zombie apocalypse a strength or a liability? Yes, I stole that from Talking Dead.
Bitty: I really liked this episode. Yes, I know, classic Bitty form but I did! Honeslty I think everyone needs something or someone to love in order to have something to fight for. Love is always a double edge sword you have something to hang on to and fight for but you have something to lose as well. (Bitty, I would have bet my left testicle that you would have loved this episode. I feel anybody who owns their own copy of Titanic probably enjoyed this episode.)
Bob: bah. You know it’s needed. People live for relationships. They are very important.(I agree with the bah part.)
Briana: haha! I didn’t watch talking dead yet this time! So it’s new to me! I know you’re going to hate this answer but it’s truly both. It’s easy to find strength in someone you love but as we saw tonight, when that person is in trouble or when you’re put in a situation where your dependent on them and they can’t be there, it can really cause a problem. Sadly, I could see myself acting exactly as Michonne did when she thought Rick was dead. It’s not something you’d be able to control. But they sure do make a hell of a team! (It’s interesting that this episode aired, and on Tuesday, the comic for March was released. The cliffhanger involves Rick’s special lady friend in the comic may have been bitten. It’s not a spoiler for the show because it’s Andrea, so that’s not happening. I also don’t think the show will last to the point that they currently are in the books. The timing is interesting. I think what you just said is why I wouldn’t want to have a significant other in the ZA, or at the very least, go out on missions with them.)
Kristi: I dont think it was a romantic comedy. The setting is definitely different. There was certainly a romantic tone to the episode though. Are they just doing this for the folks that called the shows too violent? Thats possible. (One episode per half season has to appeal to the “typical female demographic”. I don’t say that to be a jerk, but in order to keep your audience, you have to offer a lowest common denominator type episode, and that’s what we really had here. I do love the theory that this was a response to the participation trophy section of society. I don’t think it is, but I can’t be sure on the filming timeline, so I like your idea better.)
Kent: I know that they tried to have some levity, similar to the Rick and Daryl meet Jesus episode, BUT this just bombed for me. Seriously, this was a chick flick set in the ZA. This wasn’t as bad as the Oceanside episode, mainly thanks to Rosita and Gabe, but close. So many stupid, utterly irritating moment that I’m sure some females just soaked up and now they talking about Richonne and relationships, or just ships for the millennial morons. I really loathed this episode, and I probably am being a tad mean, which means that I should be a little more mean. In the ZA, no romance. Booty calls are cool. Getting in good with somebody who is weaker than you is ok because you can always cut them loose and escape. You don’t want to be on the weaker end of the spectrum unless you are with some pathetic white knight. Then you milk that for all it is worth. I really had to tidy up this response as it was originally much much meaner and insulting to readers. Classy!
Have you ever secretly wished one of the good guy characters would die? People like Spencer, who were generally disliked, don’t count.
Bitty: Well at this point who is left from OG WD? Rick, Carl, Carol, Daryl and Maggie? So of those 5… NO WAY!! (First of all, you left out Morgan who is only behind Rick on seniority, then Carl, Carol, and Daryl. Maggie is technically 2nd season, but she has 6th highest seniority and Michonne appeared at the tail end of 2, so she is 7th. After that it goes Judith and Sasha in 3, Eugene, Rosita, and Tara in 4, Father Gabriel, Aaron and eventually the rest of Alexandria in 5. Judith having the 8th highest seniority really surprised me.)
Bob: Not at all, not once.
Briana: I feel that way now! Lol! I am so ready for Rosita to go I can’t stand it! She was alright when she was like Abe’s second but now she’s like a soldier without her CO and she’s gone totally off the rails. She’s dangerous and careless. And she just gets on my nerves. (Sometimes I leave pointless comments. This will be one of those times. When you said CO, I’m like, why would Rosita need a corrections officer? Yeah…..I have to admit when I am a moron.)
Kristi: I was OK with Olivia dying. She was just not built for the war that is coming on. She would have died anyway. I think Negan did us a favor there. (I don’t think anybody has spoke ill of Olivia, so good job. I liked her, but she was a bit of a liability and totally expendable.)
Kent: Well, it’s no secret that I wish for Tara to die every single week. Honestly, I wanted Michonne to get bit here. I have wanted Glenn dead numerous times in season 4-6. I wanted Lori dead as soon as she started messing with Rick and Shane. Andrea I wanted dead, but she is like Tara, I have hated her from the get go. Beth, Noah, hell, Daryl at times all fit. I really wanted Negan to smash Maggie’s dome in. There’s really only a handful of characters that I haven’t secretly wanted dead. They would include Merle, Abe, Governor, Herschel, Shane, Carol, Bob, and Shumpert.
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.
Welcome back to the only Walking Dead blog that adds a 9 Deuce gimmick. I am your host, Kent, and this week I am joined by Bob, Briana, Cece, and Teddy. This week, we were tasked wondering, would we want the red or orangey pasta? We have 2 characters in Dwight and Eugene who are so very different, yet are going through some similar struggles. Most importantly though, we met the Gremblygunk. So that’s cool
In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce. Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else. If you would like to participate, let me know. The more the merrier…….. until we hit double digits. Enjoy this meme, provided to me via Cece. Please note all messages in bold are written by me.
Eugene is asked by Laura what he would like, and he asks for lobster, but he at least ends up with orangey pasta and pickles. Thinking realistically, what food item would you have asked for that may have been there?
Bob: I would have asked for hot dogs and sauerkraut, both are well preserved and have a ton of fat and protein. Yes, Twinkies too. (The Hot Dogs are incredibly versatile, and while I have never been a fan of Twinkies despite being pleasantly plump, if we substitute that with the Snowballs or Zingers, then I’m sold.)
Briana: Pizza! If I’m trying to think of something I eat often that I would go without and the most practical thing that has a chance of being around, I go with Pizza lol! (I am mostly curious if they have figured out how to make cheese because Eastman, Morgan’s life coach, couldn’t make good cheese.)
Cece: Fuck man, ALL THE CHIPS and of course tacos somehow. (I am curious where they get their meat, because if it’s from The Kingdom, I don’t want that.)
Teddy: Man I’m a slut for pickles. I would ask for that or ramen, because who doesn’t have ramen lol. (Annnnd the real winner of this question is the man who proclaims himself to be a slut for pickles. Kudos.)
Kent: I feel that baked chicken wings would be doable in the ZA, so I will go with that. That jar of pickles would be amazing though. I love pickles.
After Eugene gave Negan the smelter idea, did they just become best friends? This can be taken seriously or you can just do a Step Brothers quote. Both would be fine here.
Bob: Regardless of what we see in Negan… No one is his best friend besides himself. I don’t think Eugene truly believes he is Negan’s best friend, but rather in a position of need and power.
Briana: I think Negan thought so. I think Eugene is playing them and biding his time.
Cece: Nah. Not at all. Negan just wants to use him, of course. Negan doesn’t care about anyone but himself. (Yeah, I think Negan basically is smart enough to play ball to maximize his use out of Eugene. He was a teacher, just like Eugene, but they don’t know that they have that in common.)
Teddy: They became best friends like I did with my drill sergeant at basic. It’s never a good thing, because if anything goes wrong it’s your fault.
Kent: Well, it certainly sounded to me like Negan was going to invest. Rick is busy dealing with boats and hoes, so Negan will fortify Sanctuary, maybe add more room for activities. I think Negan has taken a shine to Eugene and he knows that this guy can keep the Saviors on top, and his expense is very little in all reality.
Who is the biggest ladies man on the show?
Bob: Abe WAS. But now, Negan, as he has the confidence thing going for him as well as the power thing. He is like a king or Pharaoh… (If Andrea was alive, I bet you that she would be one of Negan’s wives. She went for guys in power.)
Briana: I would go with Jesus or maybe Ezekiel. Jesus has the eyes and playful personality. Ezekiel has the brute force with a soft side thing going on. (I thought Jesus’ eyes would be brought up way more. Good job.)
Cece: In a sense, Eugene. But also, Jesus. (Can Eugene count if his interaction with women include jerking off to Abe and Rosita going at it, Tara the lesbian being kind to him, and Negan’s wives feigning interest in him to get something? If so, I am totally down with that response.)
Teddy: Right now I say Jesus. Bitches love Jesus. (That should go on a shirt. Bitches love Jesus.)
Kent: Wait, nobody said Daryl???? I’m kinda shocked. Plus, Rick has gone through Lori, Jessie, and now Michonne, but gets no love, plus Beth kissed him. I found this surprising, but this is why we do this blog.
I gotta go with Shane. He had Lori and then Andrea is short succession. The Governor was my second choice in bagging Andrea and then Lily. Had he also taken Maggie, he would have won this one. Abe also has to be considered with Rosita and then getting in the suit with Sasha, and even helping out that chick at the construction site, I think it was Annie. Man, lots of considerations. Hell, Axel was asking about Beth and then Carol once he discovered that she wasn’t a lesbian.
Will we ever see Sherry again?
Bob: Oh yeah! I hope so! We need some backfiring! Dwight’s true colors have to be revealed, just so we can see a feigned smile from Negan! (Wow, that’s twice that a form of feign has been used in this blog. That is neat.)
Briana: I’m guessing yes, but part of me hopes it will be as a walker. Haha! I liked Sherry but it would make for a hell of a moment. (We don’t get to have those moments anymore, so it would be nice. I think the biggest one was Daryl finding Merle, and that was heartbreaking, and this could be the same if they did it right.)
Cece: I hope so. I liked Dwight’s little treat for her 🙂
Teddy: I mean Dwight NEEDS to find her. If he doesn’t then Negan will have no use for Dwight. I do feel like he backed himself into a corner with saying he killed her. (Right. It goes back to Merle lying to Governor about killing Michonne. If Sherry resurfaces, Dwight will have to kill her or defect.)
Kent: It seems viable that we would. The whole Dwight thing, I think they are doing a wonderful job with it compared to how the comics handled it. It’s much more story driven and complex with layers, and I really love his story so far. I know where it goes in the books, but that doesn’t always mean much. Dr. Carson had a very different path in the books.
Did Negan’s wives really like Eugene or were they just using him, or both. Yes, I am allowing a both response for once.
Bob: Both, he did not use them as far as he was allowed to. He looks like a good guy even. But they were definitely using him, whether or not he is a good guy.
Briana: A little of both but I lean more toward the using part. They definitely wouldn’t have given him a second thought if they hadn’t needed him but I don’t think they minded his company too much. (There you go. That’s the thing I kept thinking about.)
Cece: Absolutely both. I think they found it nice to be around someone who was kind and not so expecting of them, but they also wanted help for Amber or whatever.
Teddy: I think they do like him, but he is a means to an end.
Kent: They liked the break from the norm that Eugene represented. They liked the idea of it more than the man. But that was it. Bitches were using him, as bitches do. I wrote a song about it. Just using him is the answer. Yeah, I misled you all by saying that it could be both.
Do you consider Eugene a coward, yes or no? Why? Also, should he have given the girls the pills?
Bob: He should not have given the girls the pills, no way. He is a coward and as I responded in a previous blog, Eugene will be loyal to whomever exercises power over him. (As currently presented, yes, you are right on the money. Hopefully, that eventually changes.)
Briana: No, not at this point. I have a strange feeling everything he’s done has been strategic. I don’t think he’s being cowardly at all. And giving those pills to them would have led straight back to him. He did the right thing keeping them. (Realistically, aside from Rick, Eugene may be the ultimate survivor in that he has had to do very little, compared to pretty much every other living person in that world, in order to survive. Rick is probably the ultimate survivor because he does whatever he has to.)
Cece: Not a coward entirely. He’s grown a lot since the beginning. He probably shouldn’t have messed around and gave them the pills because he will probably get figured out.
Teddy: This episode showed how fucking boss Eugene is. Yes he does shy from a fight but that makes him smart, not a coward. Eugene is trying to save people his way, even if it’s just a mercy killing. (This show has done Eugene justice, no doubt.)
Kent: Yes, of course he’s a coward. But he is smart and he knows how to lie.The man is brilliant, but his particular set of skills aren’t toughness and bravery, not yet at least. This stint with Negan will provide that last bit that make Eugene my favorite character in the franchise.
Why did Dwight end up screwing over Dr. Carson? Do you consider Dwight a bad guy?
Bob: Dwight hopes to be with his woman again. He is a bad guy now, but his heart is still not behind Negan. He outsmarted Negan and manipulated him.
Briana: As with everything else Dwight does, he was saving his and Sherry’s asses.
Cece: Dwight is doing ANYTHING he can to protect the woman he loves because he wants to be with her again. Not a bad guy, just a selfish guy. (Hmm, I would love to have you elaborate more on the selfish aspect of your statement. I haven’t considered what he’s done as selfish, but would like to hear your take.)
Teddy: Dwight did what he needed to protect Sherry. That being said it does corner you when you make lies like that. (Lies tend to backfire in the ZA moreso than in real life. I think it’s because there’s less people to cause a distraction from the truth.)
Kent: Dwight keeps digging that hole and he doesn’t know how to get out. I sense that there was some underlying issues between him and the doc because Sherry was working with the doc, like some jealousy. Yeah, it’s probably not that, but let’s go with jealousy. I absolutely don’t think that Dwight is any more of a bad guy than Rick. Once again, if the show has told us Dwight’s story for 7 seasons, we may find ourselves being totally cool with his actions.
Has Eugene gone to the “dark side”?
Bob: Yes, until the Saviors seem to be losing their grip over everything. Eugene is a drone, he will be with and under anyone who protects him or threatens him. (I’m going to guess that by season’s end, your perspective may change.)
Briana: No. I really think he’s being a lot smarter than he’s letting on. He’s playing the role he needs to survive until his group gets to him. I think he has complete faith that they will come for him one way or another. (I actually wondered about that. He already sacrificed himself in the season 6 finale when he drove the RV. I have been wondering if he has decided to just make the best of this situation, or if he really believes that he will be rescued. He knows that the odds are very drastic of getting rescued. I wanna talk to Kirkman now and get answers.)
Cece: I don’t think so. It’s all in good timing. I think he will use his experience with the Saviors to do some good in the regular group. (That’s another good point. Say that Eugene does eventually reunite with the group, unlike Daryl, Eugene is experiencing the Saviors thing entirely different. I imagine that this would lead to better management moving forward. No matter how “evil” the Saviors are supposed to be, they have a good system in a lot of ways.)
Teddy: Dark side? Nah Eugene just created a persona to survive. He did it with Abraham and he is doing again here.(Yeah, it’s the simplest way of viewing it. He’s just doing the same stuff with a new audience, like a magician.)
Kent: No, but how awesome would that be? He is biding his time. When it happens, you will be cheering. He will milk it for what it is worth for awhile I suspect. Maybe even sabotage something and potentially blame others. Like a game of chess.
Is Eugene appreciated more by Negan than he was by Rick’s group?
Bob: Yes. At least he has a function and he has some authority, albeit that authority is on borrowed time. Eugene hasn’t experienced the ramifications of a failed task yet.
Briana: I have to say yes. The group got used to his ramblings of things they didn’t understand. Negan is seeing it for the first time and it’s getting his juices going.
Cece: Probably. No one has ever seemed to really give Eugene time to shine. Now is his time.
Teddy: Outside the blonde girl, I say no. The Saviors just use people. There is no appreciation behind it. You do what they say or you die.
Kent: If I look at it post Eugene admitting to his lie, I think that Negan actually appreciates him more. I know that is weird. Yes, they listened to him about the Sorghum, but the dude had ideas and they should have really utilized him better. Negan simply asked for ideas, Eugene gave him one and they started implementing it the next day. I feel that moving forward, in Negan’s mind, he probably wants Eugene in a Milton like role for the Governor.
Negan views Daryl as “emotional”. Do you think Negan views Dwight as emotional as well?
Bob: No, he is blind to such things and these are simply talking points where Negan wants to just hear himself sound great and pretentious. (Judging by some of your responses, I get the feeling that you view Negan as not necessarily a smart and aware dude, but rather a fear wielding ruler who is oftentimes too full of himself. Would that be somewhat accurate?)
Briana: It’s possible Dwight does a pretty decent job hiding his emotional side in front of Negan these days. I’m sure he thought he was emotional but might not see that now.
Cece: Absolutely. They’re both very alike in the way they act.
Teddy: Dwight is the great value brand of Daryl. So anything Daryl is Dwight is but to a lesser extent. (Nice Great Value brand reference!)
Kent: I feel that Dwight is that one person that is almost off of Negan’s radar. I think he feels that he has done enough to make him his bitch. He knows that stuff bothers Dwight, but he also fully expects Dwight to shut that shit down, as Negan would say, and do his job, and so far, Dwight has done that, giving Negan no reason to question Dwight’s emotional state. I also feel that Negan actually pays attention to Dwight’s emotional side because he gives him extra attention at times, whether it to prove a point, or maybe offer some encouragement. Guys like Dwight are rare for Negan, I suspect, so I believe that Dwight is one of the few people that Negan keeps a pulse on.
Do you think there is any rhyme or reason behind the choosing of Yars’ Revenge as the video game on the Atari 2600?
Bob: I can see a parallel. I guess we can see Eugene as being in a neutral zone of sorts… (Interesting interpretation that I hadn’t considered.)
Cece: Not entirely sure because I’m not too familiar with the game myself. (30+ years ago, that game fun as hell. Probably closer to 35 years. It will seem lame by anybody who doesn’t have the nostalgic memories to support playing it though.)
Teddy: I love the knowledge of old school games. Shows that he is a nerd. It’s relatable to me. (Same here.)
Kent: I want to say yes. I can’t fully say yes because I don’t know how things will play out, but if Eugene ends up being a catalyst for the fall of Sanctuary, for instance, I would consider that Eugene’s Revenge. Why would you pick a game that was popular, but isn’t well known by the vast majority of your main demographic? If you wanted to go with Atari, you could have gone with a bunch of other games like a Pac Man, Missile Command, Centipede, Asteroids, Donkey Kong, E.T., but they went with Yars’ Revenge, which doesn’t have a terribly elaborate story, although a comic did come with the original game explaining things a bit. This show oftentimes has rhymes and reasons behind things that don’t come to fruition for a season or 2, or things tie back to past seasons. I think this is one.
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.
Welcome back to the only Walking Dead blog that adds a 9 Deuce gimmick. I am your host, Kent, and this week I am joined by Bob and Briana. So far, I am digging this half season of the show, and fully expect this coming week to be solid. But before we can get to that, let’s talk about the week that was. Any comments in bold are from me.
In case you aren’t familiar with this blog, I ask 9 questions that are episode specific and then 2 bonus ones that can be anything Walking Dead related. If you like what we do, please check out the Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/9deuceblog/. You can also follow us on Twitter @official9deuce and Instagram which is also Official9Deuce. Finally, if you want to email me because all of those options weren’t charming enough, write me at Kent@9deuce.com. Sorry, I hate all of this promotion as much as anyone else. Finally, this is a stain on my buddy Tom’s floor at work. I felt that you needed to see this.
Was Richard’s idea about killing Saviors and leading them to Carol a good idea or bad idea, in the grand scheme of things? As he said “What we have to do requires sacrifice one way or the other.”
Bob: Bad idea. A life isn’t worth it to bring a plan to fruition that already has a low likelihood of occurring. Which reminds me of the car scene from the previous episode. (Bonus points for mocking last week’s nonsense!)
Briana: Of course we don’t want it to be the right thing because it’s Carol. So my emotional side wants to say no it’s a terrible plan but the reality is yes it’s a good plan for what he’s wanting to accomplish. It would absolutely work the way he hopes and get Ezekiel on board with joining the resistance. (You’re right, it does accomplish some things. I feel it’s one of those things that still wouldn’t have worked out well, no matter what.)
Kent: In theory, yes. The whole “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” applies here. Every once in awhile, someone is so exceptional though, that they are just too important. On top of that, Richard is showing that he is too much of a hothead and not good at being clever in his attack. His heart is in the right place, but his execution is garbage. Now if you told me that Carol and Daryl were going to be a 2 person wrecking crew, or Rick and Michonne, that would make more sense because they work well together. Whoever dies from the Kingdom isn’t as important as Carol, aside from Ezekiel. Remember, Carol rescued everybody from Terminus.
Out of the 3 animal statues that we saw at the Scavenger’s base, which did you prefer: the cat, the rooster, or the pig?
Bob: The cat because it was the only one I remember!
Briana: To be honest, I believe I missed the rooster and pig! Haha! I’m sure I saw it but can’t remember what they look like so I have to go with the cat. Additionally it was super fun that Rick grabbed it for Michonne! I hope I’m right about the reference bc I had to explain to the rest of the household about the restaurant she and Carl went to where she found that funky cat. (It was during season 3, when Rick was still iffy about Michonne and they found crazy Morgan at the time. So you are correct.)
Kent: The pig was cool, but I guess I enjoyed the rooster. Really, this is what I am resorting to for questions?
Why do the Scavengers talk so oddly? In theory, they are normal people who have survived this long in the zombie apocalypse, but they don’t seem to be foreigners or millennials.
Bob: Yeah they seem to have created their own culture based on their experiences and environment. They are on the line of being a cult, order they are. (It seems a tad odd that they have developed this in such a short time, but I concur with you.)
Briana: My theory on that is that they just became so used to this lifestyle over the past few years that they eventually turned completely over to the “we don’t bother” thing, Including complete sentences! Haha! (Hmmm, a society of lazy asses. That’s something that I can totally get…)
Kent: I know that the writers and or producers wish to give each group a unique enough identity, but the lack of full sentences was breaking my balls. Then the “up up up”, which I know people want to make a Stranger Things reference, so I will go with the Contra code reference instead. Janis almost talked normally, almost. These names, like what the hell? I feel that this was the epitome of style over substance. On the plus side, Polly McIntosh is awesome, and I have seen her in many things, including Exam, Let Us Prey (with the dude who plays Davos in Game of Thrones), and The Woman, which is a neat film. Glad to see her on board.
Was Winslow, the spiky walker, the toughest walker to kill, as of this episode? If you say no, explain yourself. Also, shouldn’t Rick be in constant pain given all the injuries that he has suffered over this relatively short period of time?
Bob: No. Every person’s 1st Walker is probably the hardest to kill. There are two factors that play into this… first getting over the killing of another person albeit, they are dead it is still quite a hurdle. Second, the actually physically hardest to kill, which is Winslow, due to “add-ons” that other Walkers do not get the benefit of having. (I hadn’t considered that, but you are right. Also, we are led to believe that as walkers age, they are more “frail” so the earlier ones should have been more difficult.)
Briana: Yeah I definitely think it was one of the toughest walkers we’ve seen, maybe in the series! It really took a lot of thinking for them to come up with how to take him out. I was wondering why he didn’t consider just trying to get one of the posts out of it and use it. And I absolutely think Rick’s injuries are far fetched! In fact when he climbed out of the pit, I said “and two weeks later Rick died of infection” because come on! These guys haven’t dealt with any kind of problems from scrapes and cuts the way I believe they would if this were a reality. (This nonsense with how easily and fast that people heal, namely Rick, is mind boggling. I’m still trying to find out if scratches will, or ever did kill a person in this show.)
Kent: On one hand, you want to say yes, because it looks intimidating and appears very dangerous. Then you see it get taken out by pillows, and it doesn’t seem so scary. I will offer the walker that Abe and Eugene find in episode 14 of season 6, the one covered in lead, I believe. Also, the one in season 2, episode 11, the one who killed Dale was pretty bad ass considering how strong it was. Fortunately, Janis shoving Rick brought back great memories of The Stand when Stu Redman tumbled down the embankment. Seriously, pillows!
Is Carol the linchpin to Rick’s group overcoming the Saviors? We have now heard some references about how Carol would have done this or that if she knew the truth.
Bob: Yes, as I have answered in a previous blog, she is the trigger for the Kingdom and Alexandria coming together.
Briana: I really think Carol would be a huge asset to the plan to take out the Saviors but is she completely vital? No. And I don’t say this lightly. Carol is my GIRL! But she’s not in the same mind frame she was when she took out Terminus. As much as it drove me insane, Darryl did the right thing not telling her about Glenn and everything else. We all have phases in our lives and right now, Carol can’t handle what’s happening around her. She will come back from this but I don’t think it will be right now. And they will do just fine with their new alliances. (Assuming they are able to confirm those)
Kent: It’s either her or Eugene. There is another obvious person that I won’t say, but maybe next week, it becomes more clear. Whatever Carol does will have some impact and meaning. Whether she lives or dies, it will have a big impact. I think the answer is yes.
If Daryl and Carol ever hook up, or “shipped” for you braindead millennials, will that result in one of them dying soon thereafter, or would they be a power couple like Rick and Michonne, or Richonne for those of you with female body parts who watch the E! Network?
Bob: No one would die, so after Negan is over we can have Ezekiel pissed at the Alexandrians… long shot! (Man, that’s a reality show just waiting to happen. It would be interesting. In the books, Ezekiel and Michonne have a thing going, kind of, so with that obviously not happening, lots of possibilities exist.)
Briana: hmmmmmm…. I try not to actually consider the 2 of them hooking up. Haha! In the beginning I thought it would be cool but let’s face it, she’s AT LEAST 10-15 years older than he is. They have an extremely special bond but I don’t think it’s romantic. If it were going to be, it would’ve been by now. But to humor you, (hehe) I think they’d have to be a power couple. They’re both such important characters to the story at this point that it would be wayyyyy too much to put them together and then kill one of them. (I immediately had to look it up. She has less than 4 years on him. I’m as shocked as you are. Those years with Ed has aged her horribly.)
Kent: They have had so many opportunities to have Daryl and Carol hook up, practically every season since the second season. From Daryl looking for Sophia and saving Carol from the farm herd in season 2, to her bringing him food and wanting to fool around and him finding her in the prison in 3, to her and him flirting in the first episode of season 4, to her and him going to find Beth and being alone together in the building in season 5, to her and him having that last talk before she took off, the teasing has always been there. It seems like one of those plot devices that as soon as they finally give in, one will die because that’s what TWD does.
Choose one. Who’s more right: Rosita (wanting to go out and get the guns now and finish this deal) or Tara (wanting to go back home to regroup and get healed)? Pick one, do not go in the middle because that shows a lack of reading comprehension and that you are probably a horrible person to go to a restaurant with, with your indecisiveness.
Bob: I am bad to go to a restaurant with. Tara, though. (You were always a treat to go to Friendly’s with.)
Briana: LMAO!! Honestly I see both sides so your question cracks me up but I know how to choose a side when necessary! As much as it pains me to say (because at this point I can’t stand either of them) I’ll go with Tara. While it is very important that they go out and find guns for the deal, they’ve been out for too long for what’s happening right now. They need to check the situation with the Saviors, Rick is injured, they need a plan, and where the hell has Judith been? Someone should check on the baby! However, I have to add that if Rosita wants to break off and go look on her own for a while, that’s completely justifiable and beneficial. But they just can’t ALL go out searching right now. (I could get behind Rosita going to scavenge, maybe bring Carl. Out of anybody in the group, she wouldn’t yell at Carl, I don’t think.)
Kent: In theory, Tara is right, but everybody just magically heals pretty easily, think about all of Rick’s cuts and stabs and shots, and whatever else, all over the course of like 3 years. So knowing that, Rosita is right, and I love her bitchy attitude at the moment. If only she had killed Tara, I would have been more pumped. Also, where’s Heath?
Rick noted that Tara had been further out than anyone else. Do you think that we will see Oceanside or any of their members this season?
Bob: Maybe at the end?
Briana: Oh absolutely. This whole thing was a lead up to going back to Oceanside. Simply the fact that they wanted guns in the first place was a hint to me. Where else in this mess would they find guns for them? I don’t think it will be pretty by any means but there’s no where else to look. (I swear, we need a damn map, like Game of Thrones has. We have so many extra groups on the show that aren’t covered in the comics and I have no idea how many more are out there. The books kept it simple with Alexandria, Sanctuary, Hilltop, and Kingdom.)
Kent: I hope not. The group itself despises Tara and wants her dead, but also hates the Saviors. The motivation is there, and women power, and Ghostbusters 2016, fuck, most likely they will, and I will start bitching and moaning. I wish Negan and Lucille would just rape all of them to death. That would be the greatest episode ever.
Why is Daryl leaving The Kingdom and going back to the Hilltop?
Sorry to cut Bob off, but listen to this music while thinking about the scene. You’re welcome.
Bob: Daryl isn’t Daryl following orders or going along with the program. He’s leaving because he is not an idle person, ever. (SO what you’re saying is that he’s the antithesis of me?)
Briana: Because he’s an idiot who likes to put people in danger! Lol! No I honestly don’t know what the game plan is. I think he’s just not the type to sit around and wait for things to happen or wait to be told to do so. This is his way of jumping in and doing something even if it is the worst possible idea he’s ever had. (He does have a history of putting people in danger with his secondary storylines. There are actually quite a few, but the obvious one is staying around Woodbury for Merle.)
Kent: Honest reason is that it’s for drama and to give Daryl his own story so the ladies can continue to swoon. The reality is that it serves no purpose. He knows that the Hilltop people are willing to fight, and I can see that he could potentially help train them, but that place is terribly unsafe with Gregory in charge, and the Saviors do come inside the Hilltop. He is way safer in the Kingdom, and he has a job, which is to wear Ezekiel down. So Daryl is just being as dumb as Richard is. He’s not thinking clearly.
Bonus Deuce – The past 10 days, I have binge watched most of the TWD franchise, and it has gotten me thinking quite a bit, so let’s analyze a bit.
Who has hurt Alexandria the most since we first laid eyes upon the settlement: A) The Wolves (The slaughter), B) The Saviors (Abe, Glenn, Denise, Olivia, Spencer, taking supplies), C) The Walkers (Various deaths, plus the herd that killed Deanna, Carter, Jessie, Sam, and Ron, plus Carl’s eye), or D) Rick’s Group (How much of this happens if Rick’s group never goes to Alexandria, Pete would be alive, Morgan would be wandering, Aiden, Nicholas, and Reg may still be alive)?
Bob: E. The original Alexandrians.
Briana: Though all of these things have been devastating to Alexandria, I have to still go with the Saviors. They aren’t just killing some people, they’re finding every possible way to make their lives hell along with killing people. They’re taking away what little comfort they have, most of their food and ways to defend themselves. They’ve taken away their security where everything else has been manageable and there’s always a light at the end of the tunnel.
Kent: I have spent hours thinking about this. It’s not D nor C. The Wolves present an interesting argument, so I will make it as Bri has done the Saviors one. We know that the Wolves killed at least 10 people, probably closer to 20. They were no name people by and large, people that we didn’t have an attachment to. Most of these people were not like Liam Neeson in Taken, they probably didn’t have a particular set of useful skills. But I think the Wolves caused, BY FAR, the most amount of deaths. Deaths of people that could have been trained. If you look at the Kingdom, they are training. Back at Herschel’s farm, Shane trained them. Had you not lost say 10 people, that could be 10 more people to help fight and scavenge, or learn medical stuff because they need medics. They need a new hairdresser. Yes, losing Abe was HUGE, as was Denise. Glenn was to an extent as he was great at scavenging, but he was kinda acting like a bitch towards the end. It really comes down to this, if The Wolves kill count was 15 or more, then I pick them, otherwise I go with Saviors due to Abe and Denise.
Honestly, what purpose did the Wolves serve?
Bob: Removing the security and lack of preparedness of Alexandria.
Briana: For me, it was like just a brutal way to bring Morgan back. They find him, he keeps them alive and then they kill a bunch of Alexandrians. Otherwise, it seems they’re done and didn’t do a whole lot of anything. Maybe to also be the beginnings of Morgan seeing the fault in his life is precious bullshit. I saw no real purpose so I’m reaching for what I can! Lol!
Kent: I hate to get wordy, especially after my last response, but I must. Let’s go back to season 5, episode 9. Beth had just died. Noah want to go check on his old community, and in the process, Tyrese dies. While that is happening, Rick, Glenn, and Michonne say that going to DC is still the right call, and it’s about 100 miles from there. Shortly after, they discover walker bodies with the W carved in. So the Wolves were there. Our group travels north to Alexandria, 8.5 miles away from DC, so they traveled approximately 90 miles. Somehow, they end up right near where The Wolves ended up setting up shop. HOW CONVENIENT? Seriously? Bob is right, and really it’s that plus to add drama, and to show how much of a bad ass Carol is. It was also a device to get Morgan’s backstory and to see the why behind his “all life is precious” philosophy, which is what Bri brought up. The thing is, not all of the Wolves died. We never got closure. It’s worse than never getting closure on Morales or the Vatos in season 1. We never got closure on the boy and the girl that were with Lizzie and Mika when they grabbed Judith as Governor was attacking the prison with a tank. That boy and girl were never seen or mentioned ever again. The Walking Dead is chock full of convenient plot devices and alas, this was one of them, and it could have been so much cooler, but it came and went with a whimper rather than a bang.
Thank you to Mark for this lovely meme.
All of the pictures are the property of AMC, the producers, Robert Kirkman, and all of the other people who helped make this. I am simply using the images for review purposes.